Fastest way to get Whirlwind Strike?


Advice


Alright, time for some munchkining! I wanna get whirlwind strike, but that 6 feat tax is pretty damn heavy, and I feel that there's a faster way than just getting any old fighter to level 6. I'd like your help finding out the shortest route to getting Whirlwind strike!


You mean the Whirlwind Feat?
A Ranger who devotes himself to Sarenrae can take Whirlwind without prerequisites as his sixth level combat style feat.


Whirlwind Attack, technically. And like I said, I'm trying to get there before level six.


If spring attack and whirwind attack didn't both had requirment of bab +4 a level 2 human fighter(lore wardern arch type) could have got it by 2nd level.

level 1 :
human feat :dodge
level 1 feat: mobilety
level 1 fighter feat spring attack(if not the bab of +4 i said)

level 2
-gain Combat Expertise from archtype (instead of brevery)
level 2 fighter faet - whirlwind attack(again if didn't had a bab +4 request)

edit: also i count only 5 feats
dodge, mobelty,spring attack Combat Expertise and whirlwind.


Huh, I thought Whirlwind Attack was a 6 feat tax. Whatever.

Alright, so I figured that the Bab+4 was going to be the real bothersome part. So that just means one thing: Figuring out some way to get TWO feats (Spring attack and Whirlwind Strike) at level four, otherwise I'd have to wait to level 5.


easy.
at level 1 take weapon focus for bonus feat then at level 4 you got the bonus feat ability swap

"Upon reaching 4th level, and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, and so on), a fighter can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned. In effect, the fighter loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. A fighter can only change one feat at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the feat at the time he gains a new bonus feat for the level."

so you swap weapon focus for spring attack and with the bonus feat of 4th level take whirlwind -done and done.

this will also leave you free feats at level 2 and 3 for power ataack and something else.


Excellent! Bookmarking this and writing down this method for prosperity. Much obliged Zza ni.

Another thing about this is that the weapon I was hoping to use a reach weapon to increase my threat range for this Whirlwind build. Got any suggestions on how to make it even stronger?


np. id advice to take weapon focus on something you don't need for swaping and pick power attack and weapon focus on what ever your going to whirlwind with. or if you want tactical advantage pick exotic weapon prof and take this sweet thing it gives both reach and close combat ranges ;)

note that lore warden get overall +2 on maneuvers ,like trip and reposition and drag, every few levels. and this weapon has the trip ability that by this link give +2 not only for trip but for repositioning and drag maneuvers as well.
stack the maneuver bonus and the weapon trip ability with weapon focus and weapon training the fighter get and full bab... have fun ;)

so take maybe the weapon prof and 2 weapon fighting in case you face only one attacker. (do notice youll need 13 dex for dodge. 13 int for whirwind and 15 dex for 2 weapon fighting so 15 dex and 13 int)

also talk to your gm. the weapon is treated as holding 2 kamas on each hand at close range. that is workable for finsse and slashing grace ,ask him if you can use that for the reach attacks as well. i had one gm who allowed me and made a dex built bassed on this- saved me build points on str. and one who said the range attacks uses str. so that one was a str build with some dex.


Fist2Jaw wrote:

Excellent! Bookmarking this and writing down this method for prosperity. Much obliged Zza ni.

Another thing about this is that the weapon I was hoping to use a reach weapon to increase my threat range for this Whirlwind build. Got any suggestions on how to make it even stronger?

Slap on some armor spikes and you'll threaten at both 5 feet and 10 feet, increasing the number of squares you can attack with your WA.


yes but the gm might say you roll one attack you must use only one weapon. that will make it hard to use incase you have enemies both in reach and 5 feet distance. with the weapon i mantioned you attack them all with the same weapon.


Hmm... What if I took the next two levels after Fighter 4 in Brawler? That'd give me martial flexibility off the bat (Which to me is essentially a free feat for a few minutes), and if I take another level of Brawler at level 6 I get another bonus feat and Brawler's furry, which is essentially two-weapon fighting. Though from my understanding two-weapon fighting itself is pretty feat heavy as well...

The Double Chained Kama idea sounds cool, though I'm a bit queezy on paying another feat for proficiency. It's generally assumed in the games I play that sixth, maybe seventh, is the highest level I'd get to.

zza ni wrote:
yes but the gm might say you roll one attack you must use only one weapon. that will make it hard to use incase you have enemies both in reach and 5 feet distance. with the weapon i mantioned you attack them all with the same weapon.

Yeah, that's the other issue. Aside from growing large size (Hi-ho Cloak of the Hedge Wizard, goodbye AC!)I don't think there is a weapon that allows me not only reach but also to threaten within the five feet around me.


i don't know about brawler. never played or even looked at it's rules. i hate powers that only work a few times a day. i tend to use them too fast and get stack later on without the needed power. i rether plan a character that can do this all day long.

do notice this is also a monk weapon (weapon got monk,double,reach and trip abilities),meaning taking a level of monk with the flurry ability let you flurry with it.which is esentuly same as 2 weapon fighting only you don't need dex 15.and when you whirlwind you dont flurry so no -2 to attack. also monk level open up options for monk extra feat\archtypes

hack take one lvel of manuver monk. you get maneuver flurry and can take improved trip for the extra faet. that mean if you face one enemy you can try to trip him 2 times in a round with -2 to each roll(but +2 for improved trip). and the bab when you flurry is still full.


Quote:
Hmm... What if I took the next two levels after Fighter 4 in Brawler? That'd give me martial flexibility off the bat (Which to me is essentially a free feat for a few minutes), and if I take another level of Brawler at level 6 I get another bonus feat and Brawler's furry, which is essentially two-weapon fighting. Though from my understanding two-weapon fighting itself is pretty feat heavy as well...

Two-weapon fighting is feat heavy... which is why Brawler's Flurry is the shit, it doesn't require you to spend feats to obtain TWF, ITWF, GTWF and Double Slice, all the while attacking with a single weapon (so no need to enchant two).

A Brawler wouldn't be able to MF for Whirlwind Attack before level 5 though.


The Armor Spikes trick definitely works, though the GM is of course capable of rejecting that. Probably worth asking him/her about it before you come to the table.


Well, since we've worked out how to get Whirlwind Attack by level four, thanks to Zza Ni,

zza ni wrote:

easy.

at level 1 take weapon focus for bonus feat then at level 4 you got the bonus feat ability swap

"Upon reaching 4th level, and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, and so on), a fighter can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned. In effect, the fighter loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. A fighter can only change one feat at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the feat at the time he gains a new bonus feat for the level."

so you swap weapon focus for spring attack and with the bonus feat of 4th level take whirlwind -done and done.

this will also leave you free feats at level 2 and 3 for power ataack and something else.

Now I gotta figure out how to stat her. Her gimmick at before hitting brawler would largely be hit and run, so a Reach weapon is a must. Though Zza's thing with Slashing grace is interest, that's a 3 feat tax (Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Whatever), Slashing Grace) not including the feat for EWP with Double Chain Kamas. I'll likely use Power Attack and Furious Focus, then get me a big Martial weapon with reach. Probably the Badaiche, seeing that it's a 1d10 slashing weapon with a nice 19-20/x2.


let me paint this 6th level charater so you see what he has.
level 5 lroe warden 1 level maneuver monk .human. 20 point build.
str 13 points - 17 str+2 racial. +1 at level 4 = 20 str
dex 3 points - 13 dex
int 3 points - 13 int
cha you can even dump if you like 7 for 4 extra points
con 5 points for 14 con
wis 10.
total at level 6:without magical items.

str 20
dex 13
int 13
con 14
wis 10
cha 7

feats:
level 1: dodge, mobilty,improved initiative(at level 4 traded for spring attack)
level 2 : exotic weapon prof. double kama.
level 3 : weapon focus double kama.
level 4 : whirlwind attack and spring attack from the improved initiative feat swap
level 5: combat reflexs
level 6 (as monk) improved trip.

when whirlwinding : 5 bab+5 str+1 weapon focus,+1 weapon trainiig +12 to attack.(and +6 to damage form 5 str and 1 weapon tarinig)

when one on one, uses 2 maneuvers (trip twice.if first trip 2nd can be other manuver like disarm or drag\reposition .target is down so +4 to attack) or can trip 2 difrent attackers
trip bonus to attack +6 bab +1 weapon trainig +2 lore warden manuvver +2 improved trip +2 weapon trip ability +5 str -2 for flurring(or just trip once and dont take -2) for +16/+16 to 2 trip attacks or +18 for one.

combet reflexs is for one extra aoo. more if at levle 8 you incraese your dex and more if you ge a dex item.

when some1 provoke an aoo from getting to close you dont just hit them, you trip them. this stops them at raech distance(as they provoked for moving out of the reach area and if they are tripped they dont ifonish that movment).


Secret Wizard wrote:
Quote:
Hmm... What if I took the next two levels after Fighter 4 in Brawler? That'd give me martial flexibility off the bat (Which to me is essentially a free feat for a few minutes), and if I take another level of Brawler at level 6 I get another bonus feat and Brawler's furry, which is essentially two-weapon fighting. Though from my understanding two-weapon fighting itself is pretty feat heavy as well...

Two-weapon fighting is feat heavy... which is why Brawler's Flurry is the s!%!, it doesn't require you to spend feats to obtain TWF, ITWF, GTWF and Double Slice, all the while attacking with a single weapon (so no need to enchant two).

A Brawler wouldn't be able to MF for Whirlwind Attack before level 5 though.

Funny thing about that actually... The ACG Brawler coudln't, but the Fighter Brawler Variant can! This gimmick is actually what attracts me the most: Brawler 4 / Brawler 2!


Why are you going Brawler? For Martial Flexibility? You can just take the Martial Master archetype for Fighters, it stacks with Lore Warden.

Plus, you can't use Brawler's Flurry with ANY reach weapon that doesn't require Exotic Weapon Proficiency.

Not to mention Double Chain Kamas cannot be used with EWP - they are two-handed weapons... and individual Kamas are light weapons. Neither is one-handed.

If you are going Bardiche, you might as well stay Lore Warden/Martial Master Fighter. You gain little and nothing from Brawler.

Do remember to get Catch Off-Guard so you can use your Bardiche as an improvised weapon against enemies 5 feet away.


Secret Wizard wrote:

Why are you going Brawler? For Martial Flexibility? You can just take the Martial Master archetype for Fighters, it stacks with Lore Warden.

Plus, you can't use Brawler's Flurry with ANY reach weapon that doesn't require Exotic Weapon Proficiency.

Not to mention Double Chain Kamas cannot be used with EWP - they are two-handed weapons... and individual Kamas are light weapons. Neither is one-handed.

If you are going Bardiche, you might as well stay Lore Warden/Martial Master Fighter. You gain little and nothing from Brawler.

Do remember to get Catch Off-Guard so you can use your Bardiche as an improvised weapon against enemies 5 feet away.

Wait, I thought you weren't allowed to have multiple Archtypes of the same class? Can't say I remember where I read that from, though I do remember reading it at least... Might be wrong. Oh, I should also mention that this is for Pathfinder Society too.

The reason I was thinking of going for the Fighter Brawler was it's third level ability: Close Combatant. Combined with power attacking and Furious Focus, plus a rather hefty strength if I can get 19 from character creation, that's a plus 10 to damage alone! This build is for doing the damages after all. That's why I was debating about Bloodrager as that rage is very, very tempting. Alas...

That being said, I did remember that I can't flurry with a Bardachie. Now that I think about it there aren't a lot of strong close weapons aside from the Scizzor. I may invest in Quick Draw for that one.


You can't have multiple archetypes that alter the same class feature. If they're changing different stuff, you're good.

I also want to point out that if you can sink the feats into it, a whip threatens at 5' and 10'.


Secret Wizard wrote:
Not to mention Double Chain Kamas cannot be used with EWP - they are two-handed weapons... and individual Kamas are light weapons. Neither is one-handed.

Why can't you use a double-chain kama with exotic weapon proficiency? It's not limited by the handedness of weapons.


Armor spikes are crap. Just play a toothy 1/2 Orc. Same damage die, but add STR x 1.5 and get 3:1 on Power Attack.

Scarab Sages

galahad2112 wrote:
Armor spikes are crap. Just play a toothy 1/2 Orc. Same damage die, but add STR x 1.5 and get 3:1 on Power Attack.

Only on single attacks. In a full attack, toothy's bite is secondary giving you 1/2 STR and 1:1 on power attack.

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