Help with a Paladin Concept


Advice


I wanted to make a Paladin character, because having read through the Paladin I am really liking the Paladin and with my recent move to PF I wanted to try my hand at a Paladin. However, I am a bit stuck in my ways and we are easing into PF with a bit of a mix of 3.5 and PF updating things as we go.

So as I said I want to make a Paladin but I am not sure if my favorite race from 3.5 makes the transition well. And that would be the Killoren, the reason I am liking the new Paladin is due to my Killoren's Aspect of the Destroyer and its smiting abilities.

Now its smiting abilities work how the 3.5 Paladin's Smite works. Now I feel if I updated its smiting powers my Paladin would have virtually limitless Smites. 7/day from the class and can smite once an hour equal to his Cha times per day (So if I had a +4 Cha bonus for example I could smite 4 extra times per day just once in an hour.)

Is there any feats I really need to focus on in PF, is there any races that might be better for a Paladin? I was thinking pushing this toward a LG Paladin who might worship Erastil since that is the only Nature themed LG god. But I am not sure if I want to focus solely on a Bow, though I hear PF does wonders making the Bow a lethal weapon, and Smite can be channeled into a Ranged weapon without that special feat right?

I do have access to Serenity from 3.5 Which makes my Paladin powers go off Wis instead of Cha. So I thought if I did put this in a Gestalt game would be to tie it with a Druid (Killoren do amazing with Druid)


Smite Evil is a misleading term. Don't think of it as an attack, think of it as an irresistable debuff on a single foe with a range equal to your vision and a duration of several hours. See that red dragon swooping around in the sky a mile away? You can smite it. And then you can beat up the dragon with whatever weapons you want. PF's Smite Evil is leaps and bounds better than 3.5's.

So is PF's Lay On Hands. You get way more uses per day, and can use it on yourself as a swift action. Many paladins take the Fey Foundling feat to increase their self healing.

Archery is often considered the best combat style in PF because it has better feats for archery than 3.5 such as Deadly Aim and a better version of Manyshot. Power Attack is worse in PF than in 3.5, closing the gap between combat style effectiveness. Using a two-handed weapon is considered one of the best options for melee because it allows you to deal high amounts of damage with very little feat investment. And paladins are rather feat starved. If you want to be an archer, get the Divine Hunter archetype for free Precise Shot.

For races, tiefling is good if you want to be extremely durable. They add their favored class bonus to the amount of HP they self-heal with LoH and can start with a bite attack and +1 natural armor. Human is good for an extra feat.

Use d20PFSRD to look up more options and information for Pathfinder. Entries will tell you their source book at the bottom of the page.


I second all the advice from Castilonium and would also like to say that IMO the Paladin is one of the best classes to play both in terms of combat effectiveness (particularly at low levels, at higher levels they get caught/overtaken by the spellcasters) and in terms of roleplay.

Also in PF there is no "once per hour" limitation on Smite Evil or Lay on Hands abilities, just a limitation on the number of times "per day" which actually means without rest and prayer rather than a 24-hour period.


you might want to check into the variant aasimar. angel blooded maybe


I see there may be a bit of confusion.
Killoren is a race from Races of the Wild on page 102. They have the unique ability that they can pick one aspect of nature to manifest each day when they wake up. One aspect is Aspect of the Destroyer which allows the Killoren a special smite attack

Quote:

Aspect of the Destroyer: Many races revere nature for its

power to destroy, but none more so than a killoren manifesting
the aspect of the destroyer. Once per hour (up to a
maximum number of times per day equal to the character’s
Charisma bonus, minimum 1), a killoren manifesting the
aspect of the destroyer can make a special smite attack that
deals extra damage to the foes of nature. When making
this smite attack, a killoren adds her Charisma bonus to
her attack roll and deals an extra 1 point of damage per
Hit Die. This smite attack works only against aberrations,
constructs, humanoids, oozes, outsiders, and undead. If a
killoren accidentally smites a creature that is not one of the
creature types listed above, the smite has no effect, but the
ability is still used up for that hour and counts against the
total uses per day. While a killoren manifests the aspect of
the destroyer, her hair and eyes turn a deep, lusterless black;
many find the gaze of a killoren destroyer’s coal-black eyes
to be unnerving.

I think this works really well as is, but if we were to convert it to the PF way smite works this means at level 1 I would have Smite Evil = Cha +1 a day.

The way it is written currently I could use a Smiting attack (A single attack action) to deliver my level to damage against an opponent adding my Cha to attack, but for only one attack each hour. Its a good way to take down the foe you are currently fighting if they are nearing the end of their HP and you need to drop them quick before moving onto the Big Bad without blowing one of your Smite Evil's per day.

But if I converted Aspect of the Destroyer's smite ability to mimick PF's Smite style I think it becomes a bit too powerful. Because then I could use it to target a foe and instead of wasting my classes Smite Evil I could use my Racial Smite which honestly has a wider range of targets it works on (For those pesky CN baddies).

So I am likely going to go Archery, just because I do like that feel.
And Divine Hunter is pretty nice so I will likely pick that archetype.

I do like the Tiefling and the Aasimar races they are very flavorful, but I like the Killoren because 1. They are a playable Fey 2. They look like half-elves that can be green to tan in color (Unique appearances) and 3. Their unique aspect of nature racial trait allows a bit of flexibility each day. Aspect of the Ancient gives you a bonus to knowledge nature = to your HD and a stacking +2 bonus to saving throws against enchantments (something they already get a +2 to anyway) and Aspect of the hunter gives a +2 to Stealth and Perception and a +2 Initiative bonus that stacks with Improved Initiative and other sources as its a racial bonus

I also gain two feats when I take my flaws (I have yet to pick them) so feat starved is less of an issue especially with PF having more feats then 3.5 in general.

However I am concerned about Melee, can I use a bow in melee without having to get it enchanted with Swordbow or finding some odd weapon like the Bowsword?


Just take a five foot step back and shoot whoever's bugging you in the face. Or drop your bow, draw your two handed weapon (which doesn't provoke an AOO), and slice em in the face. Or don't drop your bow, and body slam em with your armor spikes. In the face.

Fun fact, tieflings and aasimar can look however you want. You can be a tiefling or aasimar of any other small or medium sized humanoid race, and the difference between that and a regular tiefling/aasimar is only cosmetic. Wanna be a half orc with demon horns? A kitsune with blue fur? A half elf with brambles coming out of your skin? It works.


All good ways, I thought there was a way to use a longbow as a quarterstaff on the fly?
Catch Off Guard maybe? I can't remember the name of the feat but it let you use it as an improvised weapon or something. Sorry I am going from memory someone told me about it last week.


You can use anything as an improvised weapon. Catch Off Guard lets you smack people with your bow without a -4 attack penalty.

Shadow Lodge

Don't change the Killoran's smite to match the paladin's. It's clearly unbalanced, and celestial/fiendish creatures also kept the 3.5 version of smite:

Celestial Creature Template wrote:
Special Attacks The creature may smite evil 1/day as a swift action (it adds its Cha bonus to attack rolls, and a damage bonus equal to its HD against evil foes; smite persists until the target is dead or the celestial creature rests).

Snap Shot lets you avoid AoO when attacking with a bow, and also threaten adjacent squares. It's not a melee attack, but it lets you use a bow in melee range without problems.

Druid isn't the best gestalt for an archer paladin, even if you can take a feat to change paladin to a Wis-based class. Consider Oracle with the Nature Mystery, or Voice of the Wild bard.


Wierdo, that is not how the 3.5 of Smite worked. Killoren's worked the way 3.5 Paladin's worked. Smite was a single attack action. The one you just quoted is the PF version of smite where it persists for a duration.

I will consider the Oracle or Bard though I think Bard Paladin is always been a good option.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Castilonium wrote:
And paladins are rather feat starved.

Can we stop using those terms? Classes are not "feat starved." Fighters are "feat-enriched".. and that's the only major class feature they have.


I'll stop using "feat starved" when people stop using "hammer," "anvil," and "arm." What an obtuse metaphor for damage, control, and support. Anyway, not relevent to the current discussion.

Oracle is an excellent gestalt for paladin. A popular and effective build is the Oradin, which keeps the party healthy with good action economy. If your gestalt is bard, you will have to contend with the fact that you can only cast bard spells in light armor, and you'll have to spend a standard action to activate bardic performance. Unless you're higher level.


The only reason I thought of Druid was due to the Killoren being suited for a Druid. Also with some of the archetypes of the Druid they can be quite fun. For example the Reincarnated Druid on a Fey creature has no normal table so its up to the GM to make a table but combined with Paladin (As a Wis focus) This gives great Martial powers and Druid spell casting one of the big three spell lists, and Killoren fits the fluff of the nature themed Paladin already.

But I agree with Oradin things I have found shows it to be very good combined.


"Feat-Starved" has never meant just "doesn't get m/any extra feats" to me; it's always meant "Doesn't get m/any extra feats but needs a lot to be good at one of its main tasks."

Shadow Lodge

Archpaladin Pardieu wrote:
Wierdo, that is not how the 3.5 of Smite worked. Killoren's worked the way 3.5 Paladin's worked. Smite was a single attack action. The one you just quoted is the PF version of smite where it persists for a duration.

You're right, I was looking at too many smites.

Still, the point stands - the race is balanced for a 1/day attack boost, and it's not necessary for all Smite abilities to work like the paladin's Smite. The celestial template may grant a longer duration smite but it still doesn't come with the DR bypassing ability that the paladin has, or the double damage on the first attack against undead, dragons, etc.

Castilonium wrote:
Oracle is an excellent gestalt for paladin. A popular and effective build is the Oradin, which keeps the party healthy with good action economy. If your gestalt is bard, you will have to contend with the fact that you can only cast bard spells in light armor, and you'll have to spend a standard action to activate bardic performance. Unless you're higher level.

An archer paladin will probably want to wear light armour anyway because of their high Dex, and if you want to use oracle spells in combat that will take a standard action (unless you're higher level and spend resources on Quicken). The bard gestalt gives you all good saves, lots of skills, and a better selection of group buffs than the oracle, including haste, heroism, and good hope. Voice of the Wild gives you access to archery spells like Gravity Bow or Abundant Ammunition, as well as a number of other thematic nature spells.

The classic oradin Life Link build is extremely strong, but paladin/bard is also a very good combination, depending on what the OP wants to do.


Archpaladin Pardieu, if you are looking at gestalting or multiclassing, you may want to check this out. There are a number of Paladin/Class or Class/Paladin combinations you may like. Even a Paladin/Druid combo.

Multiclass Archetypes

Just search via the MCA Primary Class list on the left side for different class combinations.


awesome paladin thread

check out this thread on paladins, after you read this guys speech about paladins falling, you'll want to play a paladin.


I already want to play a Paladin but I love the thread, and i am a fan of Noah's already so I knew that video.


There is a reason for me liking the idea of the Reincarnated Druid//Paladin and that is the RP, the story of this character.

Now even death cannot stay this Paladin from doing good. And even if his form is twisted and turned into a beast he had once slain he can use this for good, and will. Even if he is slain in combat and raises as a goblin, orc, or bugbear or anything of the sort. He can now walk among those creatures, see their lives and empathize with them and by leading with example show them a different way. A way away from the evil their station has forced them to embrace.

If he rises as a Goblin he can begin showing the goblin tribe he can now walk among showing them the respect they wouldn't normally get. How to show restraint for their swift tempers and how to channel their energies from destruction into construction and building ties. A group of goblins could build many things that the local township may need rather then burn and plunder their hearts out through unfocused energy. He could teach them they can do better by showing them they can.

Each lifetime, each form allows him to walk among a group of beings who could use his help and whom he can love and help unconditionally because that is all he would want to do, to be good and show others how to be good. And unlike so many other Paladins he can live to see if his influence takes hold, leave his legacy among these peoples not for his own glory but for the glory of his god, but mostly for their own glory, the glory of being good peoples and seeing what being good can do for themselves and others.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Help with a Paladin Concept All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice