Horses and panic


Rules Questions


I want to make clear if there is rule support for the following situation.

We have been playing Kingmaker up to book 4. Our GM rules that any non-war-trained horses will panic in the presence of battle.

The horse can be controlled by a ride check to avoid this. DC is unknown.

This has been causing quite a lot of trouble.

Is this an official rule and if so where can I read more about it?

Liberty's Edge

Sounds right. Check the handle animal skill.


This appears to be a houserule. Training a horse for war seems to teach it tricks

Combat Training (DC 20): An animal trained to bear a rider into combat knows the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel. Training an animal for combat riding takes 6 weeks. You may also “upgrade” an animal trained for riding to one trained for combat by spending 3 weeks and making a successful DC 20 Handle Animal check. The new general purpose and tricks completely replace the animal's previous purpose and any tricks it once knew. Many horses and riding dogs are trained in this way.

Riding (DC 15): An animal trained to bear a rider knows the tricks come, heel, and stay. Training an animal for riding takes 3 weeks.


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I assume your DM is interpreting this part of the ride skill:

PRD wrote:
Control Mount in Battle: As a move action, you can attempt to control a light horse, pony, heavy horse, or other mount not trained for combat riding while in battle. If you fail the Ride check, you can do nothing else in that round. You do not need to roll for horses or ponies trained for combat.

So, if you're doing nothing because you fail the DC20 ride check, it could be that you're trying to control a panicking mount.


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Realistically, untrained horses do panic very easily, and would flee most battles if they weren't trained/controlled, but yes, this is a house-rule on your GM's part. It's a reasonable house-rule, but the players should always be given appropriate notice so that they can adjust their strategies accordingly. Did they warn you about this before it came up, that you might have time to train the horses? Where did these horses come from that they wouldn't be trained properly, in the GM's view?

Personal anecdote: As a kid, I was walking our pony along the road once and a passing car scared her. I was knocked down and had my belly stepped on. It was very unpleasant.

EDIT: Handle Animal was what I checked after reading Kalumin's post, but after reading kadance's, I double-checked the Ride skill as well, and kadance seems to be correct. If you are trying to ride your mount in battle while it is untrained, you have to make your ride check. If your GM was making you roll on the outskirts or just near a battle, then it's a house-rule.


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@Ganryu The panic for a non combat trained mount in battle is automatic it has no DC. As per kadance's quote it is The Rule not a House Rule.

As for what "in Battle" means that is up to the GM; in the Combat rules Battle starts when you roll initiative and visa versa.


CountofUndolpho wrote:

@Ganryu The panic for a non combat trained mount in battle is automatic it has no DC. As per kadance's quote it is The Rule not a House Rule.

As for what "in Battle" means that is up to the GM; in the Combat rules Battle starts when you roll initiative and visa versa.

Panicked is a specific condition in pathfinder. You do not apply specific conditions without something stating you do.

The rules in the ride section state you can take no other action on an untrained mount if you fail the check. The rules do not say what the animal is doing during this time period.

The animal is not panicked (a specific condition).

The rules for panicked:

Quote:
Panicked: Characters who are panicked are shaken, and they run away from the source of their fear as quickly as they can, dropping whatever they are holding. Other than running away from the source, their paths are random. They flee from all other dangers that confront them rather than facing those dangers. Once they are out of sight (or hearing) of any source of danger, they can act as they want. Panicked characters cower if they are prevented from fleeing.

And for shakened:

Quote:
Shaken: Characters who are shaken take a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.

Neither of these apply to the animal in question.


I was assuming it just meant normal panic rather than the panicked condition - mea culpa.


Fair enough, I get what you mean now. It is a hazard of game, words have meanings... And then they have other meanings!

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