Free action during a move action


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Is it possible to take a free action *during* a move action?

Specifically, can I cast a touch spell (cure X wounds, or some buff or another) as a standard action and then move, touching an ally as I pass within 5' of them as a free action?


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First question, yes, usually. Example provided..no.

Normally this rule applies (allowing you to take a free action during another action):

CRB p182 wrote:
Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.

However, there is a specific rule regarding touch spells that overrides the free action rule:

CRB p185 wrote:
Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.

Because of the bolded line you cannot touch a target while moving.

Your options are:
Move, Cast, Touch
Cast, Move, Touch
Cast, Touch, Move

You cannot cast, move, touch, continue moving.

Of course, there are ways around this (Quick Runner's Shirt for example).


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i am sorry but the bolded part does not infact over rule the normal free action rule.
you can just easly say it is there to explain that casting the spell and touching the target need not be immidiatly one after the other without a break. the part that oyu cna move before casting the spell is obvius. every spell with standard action allow that. sam for moving after touching the target. if you implay that this is to overrule the normal way actions are taken then you might also say that normel spells without touch attacks ca nnot be cast before or after moving since only in touch spells it says yo umay move before the spell is cast. or after the touch is made.
there is no need to put blocks where there are non. the part about moving is only to tell you you can do it and interupt betwin spell casting and touching the target.
the fact touching the target is a free action and thous can be done while moving is not withstanding.


ZanThrax wrote:

Is it possible to take a free action *during* a move action?

Specifically, can I cast a touch spell (cure X wounds, or some buff or another) as a standard action and then move, touching an ally as I pass within 5' of them as a free action?

To break it down:

ZanThrax wrote:
can I cast a touch spell (cure X wounds, or some buff or another) as a standard action

Yes.

ZanThrax wrote:
and then move,

As a Move Action, yes.

ZanThrax wrote:
touching an ally as I pass within 5' of them as a free action?

This is where it gets sketchy. As Gauss highlighted, the choice stems from being able to move before the spell is cast (the first part), after you touch a creature (the last part), or between the two options presented (the second part).

While normal rules would allow you to do that (for example, drawing weapons while you move), Touch Spells provide a specific rule regarding those subjects that supersede the normal rule. Unfortunately, this means you can't move after you touch the creature.


To the first: No rules that I can find for this I am afraid, meaning that in general, no you can't. Unless I'm missing something.
You can draw a weapon as a free action as part of movement (a move action, a standard action and a full-round action can be movement) with a +1 BAB, or higher. Though that doesn't mean that you can always take free actions during a move action (only that this specific free action can be taken as part of movement). Other free actions such as speaking can be done at any time, even outside of your turn, as noted by the specific action.

To the second: Sadly, no. I belive this due to:

Deliver Touch Spells, Normal Familiar wrote:
The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master would.
Deliver Touch Spells, Valet Familiar wrote:

At 3rd level, when delivering a harmless touch spell to a willing creature, a valet can move before and after delivering the spell, as long as its total movement does not exceed its speed.

This ability modifies deliver touch spells.

This modification wouldn't exist otherwise.

All in all, this makes me think that unless specifically noted (such as full-round actions), a free action can not be preformed during any other actions.


Well, it seems i skiped this, somehow:

the Rules wrote:
You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.

This could only change my answer for the first question. The drawing of weapons would then be a limitation to just movement. And why wouldn't you be able to drop a weapon while moving your 30ft?

While I'm digging up sources I'm seeing some big inconsistencies (Ex. sometimes 5ft-steps and drawing of arrows are refered to as a free action and some times as not even an action), so I'm just saying, screw it. Just double check with your DM.


The wording regarding drawing a weapon while moving is specifically there because generally drawing a weapon is typically a 'move' action, not a free action. This just allows characters with a +1 BAB to effectively convert it to a free action.

If you had quickdraw, you could draw a weapon during any move action.

The specific limitation on the delivery of the free touch attacks for spells overrides the general rules governing free actions.


_Ozy_ wrote:
The specific limitation on the delivery of the free touch attacks for spells overrides the general rules governing free actions.

Problem is that there isn't any specific limitation stated. The way it's worded, the quoted above, doesn't state a restriction, only a suggestion that you can do it in any of those combinations. It doesn't exclude any use of your move action, only that you may (not must or can only) take your move before casting, after touching or inbetween. It mentions nothing about free actions during move actions.

It should specificly state that you can't deliver the spell during a move action or that it's not a free action to use during a move action, even if it's the same round as it's cast.


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Rub-Eta, what wording, to you, would mean it is a restriction?
It is not a suggestion, it is a clear 'this is how you may use this' rule.

It is unfortunate, it would be nice if you could use the touch during a move but, that is not how it is worded. They probably worded it this way specifically to avoid 'touch and run' tactics.


Rub-Eta wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
The specific limitation on the delivery of the free touch attacks for spells overrides the general rules governing free actions.

Problem is that there isn't any specific limitation stated. The way it's worded, the quoted above, doesn't state a restriction, only a suggestion that you can do it in any of those combinations. It doesn't exclude any use of your move action, only that you may (not must or can only) take your move before casting, after touching or inbetween. It mentions nothing about free actions during move actions.

It should specificly state that you can't deliver the spell during a move action or that it's not a free action to use during a move action, even if it's the same round as it's cast.

The limitation is what it spells out as far as usage with the touch spells. Even if it doesn't restrict it, there are feats that set the precedent for us.

Considering it takes feats to move, attack, and then move again, I imagine you couldn't normally cast, move, deliver, and then move again.


Thing is, I agree that it can't be used that way. I was just nitpicking the wording and that it's not clear that you can't do it, not until you see other abilities and feats (such as Valet Familiar and Spring Attack). To me, it should say "In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You can't, however, deliver a touch attack as a free action this way during movement" or something similar.


Gauss wrote:

First question, yes, usually. Example provided..no.

Normally this rule applies (allowing you to take a free action during another action):

CRB p182 wrote:
Free Action: Free actions consume a very small amount of time and effort. You can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM.

However, there is a specific rule regarding touch spells that overrides the free action rule:

CRB p185 wrote:
Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.

Because of the bolded line you cannot touch a target while moving.

Your options are:
Move, Cast, Touch
Cast, Move, Touch
Cast, Touch, Move

You cannot cast, move, touch, continue moving.

Of course, there are ways around this (Quick Runner's Shirt for example).

There is nothing in that text which states or even implies that your move action ends upon delivering the touch spell. Without that language the normal rules apply, and the normal rules explicitly allow free actions in the middle of other actions, including move actions.


Yes, the normal rules explicitly allow free actions during spells.
Unfortunately, the touch spell rules do not.
It specifically lays out when you can take your move and none of those options include touching during the move.

Here are the options it lays out:
"before casting the spell" is Move, Cast, Touch
"after touching the target" is Cast, Touch, Move
"between casting the spell and touching the target" is Cast, Move, Touch

There is simply not an option listed that allows you to touch during your move.

If you really feel that this is incorrect, I suggest posting a FAQ on it.


Yeah, that would effectively give a magus the spring attack feat when using spellstrike.


I was actually thinking about it in the context of a buff-focused arcanist with dimensional slide being able to safely apply touch range spells to teammates.

Sovereign Court

thorin001 wrote:


There is nothing in that text which states or even implies that your move action ends upon delivering the touch spell. Without that language the normal rules apply, and the normal rules explicitly allow free actions in the middle of other actions, including move actions.

That's my thinking as well. What if they touch your hand holding the charge as you move by?


A running high-five, yeah!


I've gotta agree that if you allow free actions to be taken during other actions, it follows that you can deliver the free touch in the middle of a move.

Just because the following sentence gives you an option ("You may...") which you already had, doesn't invalidate the base rule unless it specifically says so. See old Prone Shooter.

I'm still of the opinion that the ability to take free actions during -any- other action on your turn was a rules oversight, but hey, those are the rules apparently.


Byakko wrote:

I've gotta agree that if you allow free actions to be taken during other actions, it follows that you can deliver the free touch in the middle of a move.

Just because the following sentence gives you an option ("You may...") which you already had, doesn't invalidate the base rule unless it specifically says so. See old Prone Shooter.

I'm still of the opinion that the ability to take free actions during -any- other action on your turn was a rules oversight, but hey, those are the rules apparently.

The precedent is already set.

Spring Attack wrote:
You cannot move before and after an attack.

Here's a prime example as to how this...'munchkinry" will not work.

So let's say I'm a Wizard and I cast Greater Heroism. I'm 15 feet away from my Raging Superstition Barbarian who is adjacent to an enemy with Reach (the enemy's AoO is exhausted). I want to benefit the Barbarian with this buff so he can kill the enemy faster without being in his reach for a full attack.

It takes a Standard Action to cast Greater Heroism. I move up 15 feet with my Move Action and I go to touch my ally for free since I cast the spell. But wait, he's not a willing target! So I have to make a touch attack to apply the spell effect. (And I have to bypass any SR he might have. And he has to fail his saving throw. Quite a few hoops to jump through, I'm not even sure why the hell I'm doing this, but I'm already through the rabbit hole.)

By the normal rules, if I make that touch, whether it's an ally who is willing (and therefore I automatically succeed), unwilling (where an attack roll is required), whatever, I would still be unable to take my movement afterward because by rights, I would have to make a touch attack to deliver the spell to my target (as is the case for every Melee Touch spell), and it doesn't matter the means as to how the touch attack is applied (roll required or not).


Yes and no, as per Gauss above. Because of the specific exception for touch spells, you cannot move, deliver a touch spell, and then move further.*

However, in a generic sense, that's how you take free actions. You take your move, and can drop a weapon (free action) in the first square, last square, or any square along your path, because you take the free action as part of the move action.

*:
Cast-move-touch is very useful, though, and seems often forgotten


I think I turned around on this.

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

The precedent is already set.

Spring Attack wrote:
You cannot move before and after an attack.

Acually, I would say that this has nothing to do with anything. Normaly, an attack is a standard action, not a free action as in this case (what the quoted line here means is that you can't pause your move action or take two in the same round as well as a standard action).

Valet Familiar's Deliver Touch Spells modification is more valid. However: Just because that this modification exists doesn't meant that you can't deliver your spell as a free action during movement at the same round as you cast it. The modification applies to any other round after you cast the spell as well. It's only a free action to deliver a touch spell during the same round you cast it, this modification would allow you to deliver it in the middle of movement at any round.

Again, what Gauss quoted doesn't state that you can only take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. It says that you may, which isn't a restriction and it isn't even refering to how you can use your free action (it's refering to move actions). And it doesn't mention that you can't preform your free action during movement or that doing so would end the movement.

Bottomline: I can't find anything restricting the touching as a free action during movement and nothing that would imply that it normaly isn't allowed to do so in the same round as you cast the spell.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
By the normal rules, if I make that touch, whether it's an ally who is willing (and therefore I automatically succeed), unwilling (where an attack roll is required), whatever, I would still be unable to take my movement afterward because by rights, I would have to make a touch attack to deliver the spell to my target (as is the case for every Melee Touch spell), and it doesn't matter the means as to how the touch attack is applied (roll required or not).

That's all rather moot, as the rules for casting touch spells allow you to perform the touch as a free action on the turn it's cast (whether it's an attack touch or a friendly touch).

Coriat: The rules for touch spells give you an additional (unneeded) style of delivery. There's nothing which prevents you from using the base rule for free actions. So yeah, you can use the touch as a free action in the middle of a move. (assuming you don't otherwise limit free action, in a general way)

Note: I say all the above from a pure rules perspective. In games I run, I use my GM prerogative on free actions to restrict almost all free action usage during other actions. So no casting quickened spells in the middle of a charge, etc. :P

Shadow Lodge

Quickened spell is a swift action.


ZanThrax wrote:
I was actually thinking about it in the context of a buff-focused arcanist with dimensional slide being able to safely apply touch range spells to teammates.

You can only use dimensional slide once each round. Though it shouldn't be a problem to run in, touch and then warp out (or the other way around if you cast the spell the same round, as only then is it a free action to deliver the touch) as long as you have enough movement for it.


Weirdo wrote:
Quickened spell is a swift action.

Swift actions follow the same rules as free actions as far as when they are allowed.

Quote:
You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action.

Yeah, many people probably don't realize you can do this.


Rub-Eta wrote:
You can only use dimensional slide once each round. Though it shouldn't be a problem to run in, touch and then warp out (or the other way around if you cast the spell the same round, as only then is it a free action to deliver the touch) as long as you have enough movement for it.

That's exactly what I had in mind - touching an ally who's in melee without exposing myself to an AoO for leaving a threatened square if the enemy happens to have enough reach to threaten all the squares next to said ally, and to finish my turn well back from danger.

Shadow Lodge

_Ozy_ wrote:
Weirdo wrote:
Quickened spell is a swift action.

Swift actions follow the same rules as free actions as far as when they are allowed.

Quote:
You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action.
Yeah, many people probably don't realize you can do this.

I feel like I knew that but had forgotten it. Thanks.


Rub-Eta wrote:
It says that you may, which isn't a restriction and it isn't even refering to how you can use your free action (it's refering to move actions).
This has come up a number of times in this thread but it is based on an erroneous reading of the word "may".
Dictionary.com wrote:

1.

(used to express possibility):
It may rain.
2.
(used to express opportunity or permission):
You may enter.
3.
(used to express contingency, especially in clauses indicating condition, concession, purpose, result, etc.):
I may be wrong but I think you would be wise to go. Times may change but human nature stays the same.

If you read "You have permission to take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target" The restriction is evident, even if you use "may" as an indication of opportunities only those 3 are listed so again the restriction is evident.

You are defining "may" only in terms of possibility as in "it may rain today" which doesn't fit with the syntax used.


Doesn't matter, there should be a clear indication that it isn't allowed to preform this specific free action during movement. The fact that it's worded "may" (and not "must", "can only" or "you may only") isn't enough of a restriction for me as a DM to not allow players to deliver the touch spells as a free action during movement. As it is, by default, allowed and stating a few different cases isn't a limitation.


Rub-Eta, in your games you can do what you like. That is your prerogative.

However, Pathfinder regularly uses this sort of phrasing to tell you what you are allowed to do.

This is clearly a rule, in the standard Pathfinder phrasing style, that tells you what you are allowed to do when using a touch spell.


Gauss wrote:

Rub-Eta, in your games you can do what you like. That is your prerogative.

However, Pathfinder regularly uses this sort of phrasing to tell you what you are allowed to do.

This is clearly a rule, in the standard Pathfinder phrasing style, that tells you what you are allowed to do when using a touch spell.

YES! And that's what I'm saying.

You ARE allowed to preform free actions during movement. The general rule is that delivering a touch spell is a Standard action. The specific rule is that it's a free action to deliver the spell during the same round as you cast the spell. This specific rule overrides the general rule "You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target" as it is no longer restricted to a standard action, but now a free action.

This way, it's in the standard Pathfinder phrasing style. If you where NOT able to deliver the spell, while it is a free action, during movement would need a specific rule, as it is allowed by the general rule.


I don't see how you are arriving at that conclusion.

General Rule 1: Delivering a touch charge is a standard action (for one target).
Specific Rule overriding general rule 1: You can deliver the touch charge as a free action in the same round you cast the touch spell.

General Rule 2: Free actions can be used during a move action.
Specific Rule overriding general rule 2: Statement regarding when you are allowed to use the free action touch charge delivery.

What you are calling a "general rule" (when you can use a touch charge) isn't one.
It is a specific rule that cancels the free action during another action rule for the purposes of delivering a touch spell.

Edit: Re-reading your post, I think you are misunderstanding the rule entirely. It cannot possibly be a general rule to which the delivering touch spell as a free action rule is applied. Why? Because it presumes a free action so why would there be an exception to it?

Using what I stated before and adding actions we get:
"before casting the spell" is Move (move), Cast (standard), Touch (free)
"after touching the target" is Cast (standard), Touch (free), Move (move)
"between casting the spell and touching the target" is Cast (standard), Move (move), Touch (standard)

There would be NO point for this rule to be an exception to the touch spell gives you a free action touch since it is clearly diagramming that you can use a touch as a free action.

It is clearly a 'here is how you can do what we just told you you can do' statement.


Byakko wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:
By the normal rules, if I make that touch, whether it's an ally who is willing (and therefore I automatically succeed), unwilling (where an attack roll is required), whatever, I would still be unable to take my movement afterward because by rights, I would have to make a touch attack to deliver the spell to my target (as is the case for every Melee Touch spell), and it doesn't matter the means as to how the touch attack is applied (roll required or not).

That's all rather moot, as the rules for casting touch spells allow you to perform the touch as a free action on the turn it's cast (whether it's an attack touch or a friendly touch).

Coriat: The rules for touch spells give you an additional (unneeded) style of delivery. There's nothing which prevents you from using the base rule for free actions. So yeah, you can use the touch as a free action in the middle of a move. (assuming you don't otherwise limit free action, in a general way)

Note: I say all the above from a pure rules perspective. In games I run, I use my GM prerogative on free actions to restrict almost all free action usage during other actions. So no casting quickened spells in the middle of a charge, etc. :P

And those touches, regardless of requiring an attack roll or not, still count as making a touch attack (as a free action), but an attack is an attack is an attack. It doesn't matter what action it takes to make the attack, if the target is friendly (auto-hit), unfriendly (roll is required), dead, alive, etc., it still falls under the normal rule that A. it's an attack, and B. attacks can't be done during your movement.

Taking for example, your note, as a Magus, I couldn't Quicken Shocking Grasp, Charge at an enemy, and discharge the Quicken Shocking Grasp on a foe that is adjacent to a square that I am traveling through. But on the other token, I could, for example, cast the Quickened Shocking Grasp (Swift Action), Charge at the enemy (Full Round Action), and then deliver the spell via Touch Attack (Free Action).


EDIT: I think you're getting through to me, though I'm not sure if I agree, still.

Do you mean that "You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target" means that you can't move before AND after you deliver the spell (even if it's the same move action as it would be if you deliver the spell in the middle of the move action as a free action)?


Byakko wrote:
In games I run, I use my GM prerogative on free actions to restrict almost all free action usage during other actions.

I admit it strikes me as a bit strange - an action taken as part of another action is what a free action is - but whatever works for your game.

Sovereign Court

Where does it say specifically touching an ally to deliver a spell is "an attack"?


If you wanna cast/hold charge, then you could:

Spring Attack (Combat)
You can deftly move up to a foe, strike, and withdraw before he can react.

Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, base attack bonus +4.

Benefit: As a full-round action, you can move up to your speed and make a single melee attack without provoking any attacks of opportunity from the target of your attack. You can move both before and after the attack, but you must move at least 10 feet before the attack and the total distance that you move cannot be greater than your speed. You cannot use this ability to attack a foe that is adjacent to you at the start of your turn.

Normal: You cannot move before and after an attack.

If, as The Human Diversion implies, touching ISN'T an attack, then you are not allowed to use this to heal your allies, I guess. Also, they do mention foe... but as I GM I would allow someone to use this to heal... I mean seriously...


Ride-by Attack (Combat)

While mounted and charging, you can move, strike at a foe, and then continue moving.

Prerequisites: Ride 1 rank, Mounted Combat.

Benefit: When you are mounted and use the charge action, you may move and attack as if with a standard charge and then move again (continuing the straight line of the charge). Your total movement for the round can't exceed double your mounted speed. You and your mount do not provoke an attack of opportunity from the opponent that you attack.

or...

Flyby Attack (Monster)

This creature can make an attack before and after it moves while flying.

Prerequisite: Fly speed.

Benefit: When flying, the creature can take a move action and another standard action at any point during the move. The creature cannot take a second move action during a round when it makes a flyby attack.

Normal: Without this feat, the creature takes a standard action either before or after its move.

Sovereign Court

The description for Reach Spell implies that touching an ally is not an attack:

PRD wrote:

Reach Spell (Metamagic)

Your spells go farther than normal.

Benefit: You can alter a spell with a range of touch, close, or medium to increase its range to a higher range category, using the following order: touch, close, medium, and long. A reach spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level for each increase in range category. For example, a spell with a range of touch increased to long range uses up a spell slot three levels higher. Spells modified by this feat that require melee touch attacks instead require ranged touch attacks.
Spells that do not have a range of touch, close, or medium do not benefit from this feat.

That italicized part certainly implies that you don't need to make a touch attack if it's not required, and touching an ally is part of healing spells, so you wouldn't need to make a touch attack on an ally if you were using a reach heal on them. It logically follows that touching an ally to deliver a spell doesn't require anything like the attack action, right?


The Human Diversion wrote:

The description for Reach Spell implies that touching an ally is not an attack:

PRD wrote:

Reach Spell (Metamagic)

Your spells go farther than normal.

Benefit: You can alter a spell with a range of touch, close, or medium to increase its range to a higher range category, using the following order: touch, close, medium, and long. A reach spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level for each increase in range category. For example, a spell with a range of touch increased to long range uses up a spell slot three levels higher. Spells modified by this feat that require melee touch attacks instead require ranged touch attacks.
Spells that do not have a range of touch, close, or medium do not benefit from this feat.

That italicized part certainly implies that you don't need to make a touch attack if it's not required, and touching an ally is part of healing spells, so you wouldn't need to make a touch attack on an ally if you were using a reach heal on them. It logically follows that touching an ally to deliver a spell doesn't require anything like the attack action, right?

Then the GM could rule that even with the feats I quoted, you still can't do drive-by heals.

Sovereign Court

alexd1976 wrote:
Then the GM could rule that even with the feats I quoted, you still can't do drive-by heals.

Please share your logic behind that?


The Human Diversion wrote:
alexd1976 wrote:
Then the GM could rule that even with the feats I quoted, you still can't do drive-by heals.
Please share your logic behind that?

Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.

As for the feats, they talk about foes... and attacks. If you think touching isn't an attack, even with those feats you still can't move-heal-move.

I was just trying to find a way to allow for move-heal-move.

Of course, just because of the word foe, those feats don't work. But I would be a nice GM and allow them because I'm nice, and it takes multiple feats just to do that one thing.

:D


Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.

move-heal-move isn't an option listed here, so, to me this seems pretty clear. Hopefully the feats I talked about above might allow for a little more flexibility... but that is up to the GM.

Sovereign Court

If touching a friendly with a spell is a free action, why can't you touch someone after moving and continue to move? What part of the free action of touching someone stops your movement?


Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.

The part that is explicitly called out in the description of Touch Spells in Combat, as I keep quoting, shown above.


alexd1976, the only one of those that would work is flyby. Spring Attack is a full round action; you can't cast a spell as part of it, only attack. Ride By Attack requires that the person charge attacks as a standard action and then uses another move to continue charging in the same line; again, no opportunity to cast a spell. Even Flyby Attack doesn't really do what I'm wanting to do - cast a spell from a safe distance and touch an ally without risking an AoO since it would require flying into touch range and then casting the spell from there.

Sovereign Court

While it is explicitly stated that you can move before, after, or between casting and touching, it is also explicitly stated that touching is a free action and free actions normally don't interrupt other actions (like moving).

Here's a question for you, say we had a halfling cleric who casts cure light wounds and his big burly half-orc friend picks him up and moves him 15 feet where he touches an ally and discharges the spell. Does that prevent the half-orc from continuing to move him?


Holding the Charge: If you don't discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the charge indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

So it would appear you are allowed to make touch attacks but not free attacks... so you could ride by and slap your ally?

Yeah, it really doesn't look like move-heal-move is possible...

the GM would have to approve Flyby, it's a monster feat.

Sovereign Court

You are referencing attacking. We are talking about delivering a touch spell to an ally. Touching an ally with a spell is not an attack, it is a free action. What I'm trying to find out is why you are trying to apply attack rules to a free action that is not an attack of any sort.


There are rules on touch spells. I have quoted them.

They are explicit.

"You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target."

I can't explain it any better, I'm sorry you don't understand/agree with what Paizo has published.

I don't disagree with you on any level about touching being a free action, but touch spells have their own specific rules, quoted multiple times above.

I was quoting the charge-holding rules in an attempt to find a way to allow for move-heal-move, but it really doesn't seem possible.

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