[PFS] Melee Witch with a Quarterstaff


Advice

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

This is just a bit of theorycrafting I've been playing around with lately, and I'm wondering if the wisdom of the Internet can make it a little more viable. The idea is to stack buffs to make a full-classed Witch into a decent melee fighter.

Half-elf Witch (Bonded Witch)
16/15/14/15/10/7
Traits: Fate's Favored, ???
1: Two-Weapon Fighting
2: divine favor patron spell
3: Double Slice
4: +1 Int
5: Arcane Strike
6:
7: Dodge
8: +1 Dex, divine power patron spell
9: Toughness
10:
11: ???

The combination of divine favor/power, heroism, and Arcane Strike keep the attack and damage bonuses adequate, and hex selection is still wide open for utility stuff like Flight. Choosing a quarterstaff (or more powerful double-weapon using Ancestral Arms) as a bonded item allows both ends to be enchanted for cheap, plus a free greater magic weapon every day.

The main downside is the lack of good defensive buffs. Witches get mage armor, false life, and ironskin, but miss out on barkskin, shield, mirror image, blur, etc. Are there any other tricks we could use to keep her physical defenses up?

Any other suggestions?


Take the weighted spear. It's a simple double weapon that's better than the staff.


Would you consider a half orc? Or did you want a half elf for roleplay? You would get their double weapon (orc waraxe?) and have sacred tattoo for fates favored to stack on.


You don't seem to be using hexes, so white-haired witch is an option. Grappling your enemies with AoO's at reach might be a valid way of staying alive.

Dark Archive

Renegadeshepherd wrote:
Would you consider a half orc? Or did you want a half elf for roleplay? You would get their double weapon (orc waraxe?) and have sacred tattoo for fates favored to stack on.

Half-orcs treat the Orcish Double Axe as a Martial weapon, so he'd still need to burn a feat on proficiency.


Seranov wrote:
Renegadeshepherd wrote:
Would you consider a half orc? Or did you want a half elf for roleplay? You would get their double weapon (orc waraxe?) and have sacred tattoo for fates favored to stack on.
Half-orcs treat the Orcish Double Axe as a Martial weapon, so he'd still need to burn a feat on proficiency.

Nice catch.

Grand Lodge

Half-Elf is for the Bonded Witch archetype.

Now, to ask a better question:

Are you choosing Quarterstaff for flavor, or do you intend to get a magical staff later? If so, I suggest the Quarterstaff of Entwined Serpents, for cool factor.

If it's just any double weapon, than why not a Boarding Gaff, as it is both Double, and Reach.

If it's just for a Quarterstaff/Spear-like weapon, then the Elven Branched Spear is a nice finessable reach weapon.

Scarab Sages

With bonded witch, if you choose Staff instead of Weapon, it adds Shillelagh to your list, which will be more useful than Divine Favor until much higher levels. That would let you change your patron from Strength to something more defensive, Like Trickery for Mirror Image access, or Wisdom for Shield of Faith.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

avr wrote:
You don't seem to be using hexes, so white-haired witch is an option. Grappling your enemies with AoO's at reach might be a valid way of staying alive.

I hadn't looked at the White-Haired Witch; that could actually be good, even for just another attack with all my static bonuses.

blackbloodtroll wrote:


Are you choosing Quarterstaff for flavor, or do you intend to get a magical staff later? If so, I suggest the Quarterstaff of Entwined Serpents, for cool factor.

If it's just any double weapon, than why not a Boarding Gaff, as it is both Double, and Reach.

If it's just for a Quarterstaff/Spear-like weapon, then the Elven Branched Spear is a nice finessable reach weapon.

I hadn't seen the new weapons in the Melee Tactics Toolbox. I was partly picking the quarterstaff for flavor, but some of those could be better since I can get a free EWP on a half-elf. But the idea was to use a double weapon to leverage the enchanting discount on the bonded weapon, and get extra attacks with static bonuses from divine favor/power and Arcane Strike.

Imbicatus wrote:
With bonded witch, if you choose Staff instead of Weapon, it adds Shillelagh to your list, which will be more useful than Divine Favor until much higher levels. That would let you change your patron from Strength to something more defensive, Like Trickery for Mirror Image access, or Wisdom for Shield of Faith.

What would I use at higher levels, once my staff is magical and I can't use shillelagh? And what are some good staves that would also be good melee weapons?

Scarab Sages

Umbral Weapon is a great spell added to the witch list in the Melee Tactics Toolboox. It allows a reroll on one miss per round. If the miss hits, the foes takes an extra d8 cold. It's second level, but a great buff.

As for staves that are good melee weapons, my favorite bang for the buck is the Staff of Mithral Might.

Staff of Mithral Might:

Price 58,000 gp; Aura moderate transmutation; CL 11th; Weight 7 lbs.

This staff is made of silver, with a shimmering sphere of mithral at either end. One end features a golden snake wrapped around the staff and cradling the larger of these two mithral spheres. The staff may be used as a weapon, functioning as a +2/+2 quarterstaff. It also grants a +2 enhancement bonus to Intelligence to whoever possesses it. These two attributes continue to function after all the charges are expended. It allows the use of the following spells:

Bull's strength (1 charge)
Enlarge person (1 charge)
Telekinesis (3 charges)
Flesh to stone (4 charges)

Construction Requirements

Cost 29,300 gp

Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Staff, bull's strength, enlarge person, flesh to stone, fox's cunning, telekinesis


The Staff of Curses isn't half bad and if you have the UMD for it a Staff of the Avenger has an excellent buff in Holy Sword and can be recharged by a witch thanks to the Discern Lies spell in it.

Still it'd be hard to pick them over a spell storing weapon.


RainyDayNinja wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:


Are you choosing Quarterstaff for flavor, or do you intend to get a magical staff later? If so, I suggest the Quarterstaff of Entwined Serpents, for cool factor.

If it's just any double weapon, than why not a Boarding Gaff, as it is both Double, and Reach.

If it's just for a Quarterstaff/Spear-like weapon, then the Elven Branched Spear is a nice finessable reach weapon.

I hadn't seen the new weapons in the Melee Tactics Toolbox. I was partly picking the quarterstaff for flavor, but some of those could be better since I can get a free EWP on a half-elf. But the idea was to use a double weapon to leverage the enchanting discount on the bonded weapon, and get extra attacks with static bonuses from divine favor/power and Arcane Strike.

While the enchanting discount is tasty, if you go with a one handed weapon, you can add a light Mithral shield to the mix, and since the ACP=0 and ASF=0%, it won't impair your casting while allowing you to significantly increase your AC. You can still use Mage Armor, since its armor bonus stacks with the shield bonus.

/cevah

Grand Lodge

You can always hold a two handed weapon in one hand, cast a spell, then as a free action, grip the weapon with two hands.


RainyDayNinja wrote:

This is just a bit of theorycrafting I've been playing around with lately, and I'm wondering if the wisdom of the Internet can make it a little more viable. The idea is to stack buffs to make a full-classed Witch into a decent melee fighter.

The quarterstaff might work "okay" for low levels, but you'll quickly fall way behind. The problem is you won't get increased number of attacks nor extra bonuses to damage via Power Attack (which you don't have listed).

1st level:
+1/+1 quarterstaff (1d6+3/1d6+1)

3rd level: Divine Favor as the melee buff
+4/+4 quarterstaff (1d6+5/1d6+5)

5th level: Divine Favor as the melee buff
+5/+5 quarterstaff (1d6+7/1d6+7)

The way around this is to ditch the stick at a bit higher levels for more attacks, all at your BAB. The Witch is limited by what shapes they can take, so it is a natually harder build to work.

Take Alter Self for example. Ditch TWF and Double Slice, instead opting for Arcane Strike (1st) and Power Attack (3rd).

1st level:
+3 quarterstaff (1d6+5)

3rd level: Alter Self as the melee buff
+4/+4/+4 claw/claw/bite (1d4+8/1d4+8/1d4+8)

5th level: Alter Self as the melee buff
+5/+5/+5 claw/claw/bite (1d4+9/1d4+9/1d4+9)

Now add in a 4th attack with the White-Haired witch OR take the item bonded archetype (as you are) and pick the amulet (of Mighty Fists).

The amulet path gives you Monstrous Physique IV (at 12th level, long ways away), which is fabulous for natural attacking and casting spells.

Edit: Deleted the opinion about the 4th attack being better until 12th. I don't think that is the case except for a narrow view.


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I second choosing the Amulet bonded item. Not only does this give you some nice defensive spells, but it allows you to cheaply upgrade an Amulet of Mighty Fists.

Let me go into more detail on the non White-Haired Witch natural attacking build:

1) Potentially dump STR and CHA as a witch normally would, and maximize DEX and CON, with INT as high as you can get it. Use Weapon Finesse, add damage with Piranha Strike (or Arcane Strike if you're not using your swift action), and use the cheap AoMF to get the Agile property. Use the half-elf alternate option to gain +2 to will saves. This helps with your defenses (as you're unable to wear heavy armor), initiative, Reflex saves, Fortitude saves, Will saves, HP, and everything else a frontliner needs.

2) Absolutely go Strength patron (ironically), and grab Fate's Favored to gain a +1 bonus to Divine Favor. You can also then grab a Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier later for additional luck to AC and the ability to negate a critical hit 1/day.

3) Get a DEX belt first, then upgrade to DEX/CON (or buy an ioun stone of CON). Take Toughness as soon as you are able. Put your FCB into HP.

4) Consider taking Improved Unarmed Strike (or gaining it as a bonus feat through the Perfectionist Shavtoosh). This opens up some powerful combat options such as style feats and Feral Combat Training. You can even consider taking Hex Strike and delivering strong debuff hexes with your natural attacks, or just smacking people so hard they fall asleep (with Slumber).
4a) For your hexes, in addition to hexes that work with Hex Strike you absolutely want to look at Prehensile Hair and Flight for the combat boosts they provide.

5) You may wish to take an Improved Familiar which can apply buffs to you using wands during combat (or entire party buffs like Haste), or take care of useful utility casting like Glitterdust while you're mixing it up in melee.

6) You may wish to worship Sarenrae. This opens up the Blade of Mercy trait, which allows you to do nonlethal damage with all of your natural attacks that deal slashing damage. You can combine this with Enforcer and maximized Intimidate (not hard, take Extra Traits if needed for Bruising Intellect gaining INT to Intimidate, I did this on my combat witch/magus) to render enemies shaken, then at higher levels grab a Bodywrap of Mighty Strikes +1 Cruel to apply sickened to a foe and gain temporary HP from killing them.

7) You may wish to maximize UMD, as the witch's spell list is limited on some very useful buff spells for martial combatants such as Long Arm.

8) You may wish to buy a spell-storing haramaki and/or add spell storing to your amulet of mighty fists at higher levels, to trigger defensive or offensive spells extra times per day for "free." You can still wear Mage Armor over your haramaki. Also recommended to buy a wand of Shield and trigger it liberally.

Hope this helps!


If you do go the DEX route, just make sure that you have a crossbow, purchase alchemical items, and take at least one offensive hex such as Misfortune or Slumber and/or a strong party buff set-up such as Fortune and Cackle (you can retrain these later if you want).

That way you can still contribute just fine while waiting patiently for your Agile amulet to become available. Alternatively, since you have high DEX and potentially Weapon Finesse you can still Aid Another, perform weapon-based combat maneuvers against flat-footed foes or foes otherwise unable to take AoOs, or use your familiar in some interesting way (potentially giving it the Mauler archetype, at least until you get your own combat prowess online and can swap it out for a spellcaster-y Improved Familiar.)

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