Can the ninja take rouge archetypes?


Rules Questions


I've looked at a few Ninja guides and some are suggesting an archetype. Is this possible to do? If it is mechanically possible is it PFS legal?

Grand Lodge

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Last I knew it was completely legal. I know when I enter Rogue archetypes into Hero Lab for Lone Wolf I have to make it for Ninja too if it replaces the same class abilities that both classes have.


No, not to my knowledge. The ninja is essentially just a fully fleshed out archetype of the rogue, but replaces many of the basic class abilities which would prevent the use of further archetypes.

For example, excluding race specific archetype, there are by my count 26 archetypes. All but 8 remove trapfinding, which a ninja does not have. Ergo, automatically none of those that remove it could take such an archetype.


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Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Claxon wrote:

No, not to my knowledge. The ninja is essentially just a fully fleshed out archetype of the rogue, but replaces most of the basic class abilities which would prevent the use of further archetypes.

For example, excluding race specific archetype, there are by my count 26 archetypes. All but 8 remove trapfinding, which a ninja does not have. Ergo, automatically none of those that remove it could take such an archetype.

I believe Scout is compatible with Ninja. It's an often-mentioned archetype for the class. Well, was prior to ACG.


Hm, well if the ninja is basically a super archetype, and archetypes can be mixed if they don't replace the same class feature than wouldn't it be ok? They are highly advocating the Scout archetype which replaces abilities tat the ninja has.


Yes, but only those Rogue archetypes that swap out the abilities that the Ninja shares with the core rogue: uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge, and sneak attack.

The Scout archetype is a common one, as is the bandit. Not many others fail to replace either a rogue talent, trapfinding, trap sense, or evasion.


If there are archetypes that only replace things that the ninja has, that would work. I'm just unsure if there are any.

It appears Bandit, Burglar, Sanctified Rogue, Scout, and Trapsmith would be compatible, by looking closely at the chart on d20pfsrd.


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No, the ninja may only take mauve archetypes.


Ninja is part of a dropped (for now anyway) concept called Alternate Classes.
It's fellows are Anti-paladin and Samurai.

It's considered it's own class, with the special rule that it cannot multiclass into Rogue. So, just like how a Fighter cannot take Barbarian archetypes, a Ninja cannot take Rogue Archetypes


Sorry I can't tell what mauve is supposed to be. :(

Also I just saw that a few guides were recommending a few archetypes and wanted to check if this was ok because I mean they are ROUGE archetypes.


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Jack of Nothing wrote:
Sorry I can't tell what mauve is supposed to be. :(

You typed rouge, not rogue in your thread title. It is a common mistake.

Rouge is red. Mauve is a purple color.


Oh lol my bad, always type it wrong haha. :P


James Jacobs says you can.

I know he's not a "rules guy" but I think his word can be used as a tie breaker.


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Ultimate Combat wrote:

An alternate class operates exactly as a base class, save

that a character who takes a level in an alternate class
can never take a level in its associated class—a samurai
cannot also be a cavalier, and vice versa. The antipaladin
from Advanced Player’s Guide is also an alternate class.

Since it operates exactly as the base class, it should be able to take the archetypes as long as they still trade away the correct things.


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It says as A base class, rather then THE base class.

That distinction groups it into Base Class (A class level has levels from 1 to 20), rather then the base class of Rogue.


With all being said however; if this is for a home game, I see nothing wrong with it for your group.

If it's for PFS however, I would be concerned about you building around a character whose mechanics would be rejected for not following the letter of the rules

Sczarni

PFS follows the PFRPG ruleset.

Taking Rogue archetypes for Ninja is as valid as taking Rogue Favored Class Bonuses for Ninja.

Grand Lodge

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Ninjas are masters of disguise.

The use of rouge, and other make-up, is part of their repertoire.


ACG wrote:

Alternate Classes: Sometimes an archetype exchanges

so many class features that it almost becomes a new
class itself. In such cases, the class might warrant a
representation of all of the class features, even those
that it shares with its base class. While still technically
an archetype, characters who play this class have all
the tools they need to advance their character in one
convenient location. The antipaladin, ninja, and samurai
are all examples of an alternate class.

Here we have official word that Alternate Classes is just an archetype that changes a lot. Thus it is a rogue for all things that need a rogue and can take legal archetypes and FCB


Issac Daneil wrote:

It says as A base class, rather then THE base class.

That distinction groups it into Base Class (A class level has levels from 1 to 20), rather then the base class of Rogue.

It also heavily implies that said "base class" is the one it comes from in the part where it says you can't take levels in both. So "a base" in that sense is defined clearly as "the" base class.


I'll cede to the ACG quote, as it seems the most up to date. Works for me

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