PC that intends to be in charge someday - build advice please


Advice


Looking at a another build. This character will be a youngest son of a minor noble. No chance to inherit anything of significance. Family pushing him to choose a cushy military appointment or join the clergy. He refuses either stultifying choice.

His studies and watching from the sidelines has convinced him he can do a better job of running things than of the people in charge. No, he is not a traitor that is going to try a coup d’état to force out his own family. He’s going to go off on his own to find someplace to start-up something new or get himself into a position of authority and prove his theories. He intends to surround himself with experts (eventual leadership feat) on the multitude of topics required. But feels he has to be enough in-the-know to understand what they are discussing and not be conned into poor choices.
Note: I don’t know if the campaign will last long enough or actually lend itself to running a kingdom. It isn’t Kingmaker. But this will be the character’s personal goal. So when bargaining with a baron instead of cash, he may ask for a future favor like: hiring away the expert blacksmith for his future city, an alliance with his future city, trade privillages, etc…

The adventuring is intended to build up a reputation and contacts for the eventual goal of being in charge of something. So he still has to be capable enough to pull his own weight in the party or he won’t be building up contacts, favors, and a favorable reputation. Primary role will be knowledge skills and maybe party face if no one else is competent at it. As well as trapfinding/disarming if necessary. Secondary combatant relying on the studied combat.

For build I am leaning toward
Class: Aristocrat 1 / Investigator X (/ does any PrC seem logical?)
Race: Half-Elf (I’m tired of playing humans at the moment and want to live long enough to be sure the grand experiment succeeds)
Alignment: Neutral Good
Str: 14, Dex: 14, Con: 12, Int: 15(13+2), Wis: 10, Cha: 10 (Though I have been considering dumping wisdom. Doesn’t seem like you could be very wise to just assume with no evidence that you are a better ruler than everyone else that ever existed.)
Trait: Rich Parents
Feats:
Free: Skill Focus – Nobility or History almost seem needed with the back story but are also kinda blah. I suppose a noble could really have almost any of them though.
1 Weapon focus seems pretty noble-ish
3 alertness
5 iron will
7 leadership
9 improved iron will

This is a very preliminary build. I've never built an investigator before, so any help appreciated.


I would go for a full caster and bump all the cognative stats up while keeping physical low, maybe a decent CON. Rulers need wisdom as well as charisma and intelligence to be the best. They're the mind and conveyer, arms can be others, assessed to be trusted.


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This PrC is an option maybe for your guy.

Do you need the Aristocrat level? It's hurting, but I don't know if it's required for some reason. Bards make excellent Knowledge people and party faces. Investigaor is a really good choice still, Though I recommend the Empericist to make you better at skills, And then take a trait to get any social skill you want that you don't have running off int to be based off of your int. Doing this means you could drop CHA a bit and still be the party face. Alertness isn't really helping you much, also check wit your GM if leadership is allowed, because most of the time it's not. And I also don't think you'll need improved iron will, will saves is a good save for you and having that and a +2 makes for quite good saves.

As a note, you're character isn't that suited for combat, especially if you don't use mutagens (don't know it that fits your theme or not) so this is where a bard could be the better choice. You can sing and be helpful that way. But a way to help as investigator it getting the infusion talent for your extracts to be used by others.


How or why are you attached to the investigator class. The obvious class for a leader type is the cavalier. If you don't want a horse and are planning on being a face then the Daring Champion is also a good fit.

Less obvious, but what I would play is the slayer with the vanguard archetype. This gives you plenty of skill points to spend on being "noble". And you can still get trap finding.

Lastly consider the imperious bloodline for sorceror with the seeker archetype for trapfinding.


you want to be a leader and use leadership feat but have a charisma 10? Im confused. Are you also deliberately avoiding spellcasters? If you are then id say just mysterious stranger gunslinger as then you get high charisma with a good cause.

If divine you seek go oracle as a half elf and take ancient lorekeeper. If arcane take summoner of some kind.


I am not 100% set on anything in the build. Having said that. I actually like the combination of aristocrat and the rich parents trait to be the younger son noble.

I can't guarantee it, but I'm getting the impression that the actual combats are not going to be nearly as much the focus as the social interactions and figuring out the various conspiracies.

I will check out the daring champion and vanguard, but I'm looking for a more cerebral guy than what I usually see in cavaliers and slayers.

Infusion is definitely one of the things I was planning on, I just forgot to put it up there.

I agree that a good leader should have wisdom. But I'm not certain that this guy actually will be a good leader, just that he's certain he will be an amazing leader. So I'm kinda thinking a low wisdom actually fits with that. That's what pointed me at improved iron will. But it might not be needed.

I actually first built him as a sorcerer with the imperious bloodline, but it ended up very similar to the character I am currently running in another game. I don't want that.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Here's the thing... what you do in roleplay for a goal like this is far more important than the fine points of a wargaming build.


There was a similar thread the other day looking for a smart, capable character looking to build an ideal kingdom/territory. I went with Investigator for that one. I'd skip the aristocrat level too

It's worth trying to run as much as possible off your Int stat, so the Empiricist archetype and Student of Philosophy trait work well - turning all social use of Diplomacy, Sense Motive & Bluff into Int based. Think of this guy as a Renaissance Man, well educated in a variety of topics as befits a smart nobleman. Rich parents might be Thematic but it sucks beyond level 1 - perhaps this character is determined to succeed without their help and prove themselves.

Half-Elf can be a good choice for Investigators due to their FCB, which can add to combat use of Inspiration and synergizes with Inspired weapon enchants and Combat Inspiration which drop the cost.

Pick either Strength or Dexterity and build appropriately. Finesse routes are viable with Fencing/Slashing Grace, but a 2-Hander Power Attacking Investigator is also a strong option (and can benefit from med/heavy armours without wasting a high dex). If you choose either Dex *or* Str and don't spend much on the other you won't need to dump Wis. You'll probably want to get Extra Investigator Talent at least once, so keep you feat chain simple.


I think you might be equating too much crunch with fluff. For example, any adventurer could be from an aristocratic background, the Aristocrat NPC class is more for those nobles who are happy just being rich layabouts. They don't train themselves and certainly don't go out having nasty adventures that might make them late for tea.

Your guy isn't that. He has studied and planned in some fashion to make himself better and definitely plans to go out in the world and earn his fortune. You can have all of the fluff of being an aristocrat without taking the crunch of the NPC class and being fairly crippled.

Similarly, rich parents is a very weak trait. Instead of a trait that will help you throughout the entire life of your character it is a trait that becomes nothing more than a rounding error in your wealth after a couple of levels. However, you can still have rich, noble parents as a background concept, but instead of spending your money on something physical you spent it on training, either to get your real class or perhaps training represented by a trait that does something useful.

I pretty much never advocate dumping wisdom. If you want to role-play a character that is foolish in certain ways, that is quite possible with an average or even slightly above average wisdom score. Wisdom in pathfinder is a composite of many different things, it is the sense of self that helps you resist certain types of magic, the ability to discern others inner thoughts (sense motive), notice what is around you (perception) and your success at convincing others to pay you for services (profession skills.) It is also the non-mechanical concept of being 'wise.' Your concept wants to be weak at only one of those, and in a very specific way, that is entirely compatible with having a 10, or even a 14 wisdom. Many people are generally wise, but have a specific blind spot which causes them to behave foolishly.


I made a list of various ways to build Battle Heralds

Battle Heralds are a Prestige Class specifically designed to be a commander.

For the most part I left out Feats so you can plug in what you want, but the general mix & matches of classes give you thematic ideas as to how the builds play out mechanically.


Corvino wrote:
There was a similar thread the other day looking for a smart, capable character looking to build an ideal kingdom/territory. I went with Investigator for that one. I'd skip the aristocrat level too ...

Yep, that was me. I've thought about the concept enough that I want to try it.


Edit: Swashbuckler inspired blade 1 Investigator mastermind X

Everything a properly trained educated young nobleman should know. How to defend himself in a duel, and education in all the finest liberal arts. Mastermind lets your minions benefit from your name and expertise.

Take the rich parents trait for nobility or something.

Alchemy is less magical talent and more book learning

The inspiration die on diplomacy and intimidate is going to make him outsocial the average social char

Immunity to divinations and mind reading is super useful for nobility/politicians.

Inspired blade 1 gives him finesse(rapier) Focus (rapier) and int+cha mod in panache 2 different defense boosting abilities (parry and riposte/swashbucklers dodge) and an inspiration die to the physical skills you might not have ranks for.


TRAITS:
Clever Wordplay (Diplomacy) - Int to Diplomacy
Bruising Intellect - Int to Intimidate
Student of Phislophy - Int to Bluff when lying
(figure out a Drawback - Pride is always a fun one)

RACE:
Silver Tongued Focused-Study Human

Silver Tongued Alternate Race Feature: +2 to Bluff and Diplomacy, replaces Skilled
Focused Study Alternate Race Feature: Skill Focus at first, 8th, and 16th level, replaces Racial Bonus Feat (trade 1 for 2-3 is fan-TASTIC, especially if you're gonna be a leader character).

Primary Stats: Str, Int
Secondary Stats: Con, Wis
Tertiary Stats: Dex, Cha

CLASSES
Sensei Wanderer Monk / Standard Bearer Strategist Cavalier / Cleaner Slayer / Battle Herald

Order: Order of the Cockatrice
Race Hmn Skill Focus (Intimidate)
CL1 Mnk1 Antagonize, Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Falcata
CL2 Cav1 Tactician - Spirit of the Corps
CL3 Cav2 Persuasive, Dazzling Display
CL4 Sla1 Deceitful
CL5 Sla2 Combat Style Feat - Two-Weapon Fighting
CL6 BtHr1 Sound the Charge
CL7 BtHr2 Improved Critical (Falcata) OR Leadership
CL8 BtHr3 Skill Focus (Diplomacy/Bluff), Inspire Hardiness
CL9 BtHr4 Distracting Charge
CL10 BtHr5 Pincer Maneuver
CL11 BtHr6 Coordinated Charge
CL12 BtHr7 Keep Your Heads

And now I realize I've just created a Game of Thrones character...


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Working back from the Noble Scion prestige class, you want your base class to be either a skill monkey or a warrior type, but definitely not a dedicated spellcaster. That prestige class grants plenty of skill points (6 + Int mod) as well as combat ability (+7 BAB over 10 levels, with an additional +2 from your Dilettante Studies class feature), but it does not advance your prior spellcasting level very well (maximum of +2 caster levels over 10 levels from your Dilettante Studies class feature). Investigator is a fine choice for the base class, especially if you focus more on skills than alchemical extracts.

Since your effective level for extracts will never get very high, you can get away with a slightly above average intelligence but will want a very high charisma to take advantage of your increased maximum cohort level from Greater Leadership. Since the cohort you get at 7th character level (Noble Scion 2) is only one level behind your main character, you will want to consider carefully what you want to do with what is effectively a second character.


Ok, still working on this when I have free time. I actually liked the noble class and rich parents for the fitting flavor. But most GM's seem to think the noble class is too weak and the rich parents is too powerful. {sigh}
So I'm taking the suggestion of a single level of inspired blade swashbuckler to simulate the noble born.
Still not sure about the Noble Scion PrC.

Vetinari is eager for the opportunity to prove his theories on rulership.

Lord Vetinari:
Lord Vetinari
Male half-elf investigator (empiricist) 1/swashbuckler (inspired blade) 1 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 30, 56, 100, 125)
NG Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +2; Senses low-light vision; Perception +5
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 16, touch 12, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +2 Dex)
hp 17 (2 HD; 1d8+1d10+2)
Fort +1, Ref +6, Will +1; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune sleep; Resist fire 2
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee fire-forged steel rapier +5 (1d6/18-20)
Special Attacks deeds (derring-do, dodging panache, opportune parry and riposte), panache (5)
Investigator (Empiricist) Extracts Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +5)
. . 1st—endure elements, shield
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 10, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 8, Cha 10
Base Atk +1; CMB +1; CMD 13
Feats Skill Focus (Knowledge [local]), Surge Of Success[ARG], Weapon Focus (rapier)
Traits careful combatant, natural-born leader, noble born - surtova
Skills Acrobatics +5, Appraise +2, Bluff -2, Climb -3, Craft (alchemy) +8 (+9 to create alchemical items), Diplomacy +4, Disable Device +8, Disguise -2, Escape Artist -1, Fly -1, Heal +5, Intimidate -2, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Knowledge (engineering) +8, Knowledge (geography) +8, Knowledge (history) +8, Knowledge (local) +11, Knowledge (nature) +8, Knowledge (nobility) +8, Knowledge (religion) +8, Perception +5, Perform (oratory) +4, Ride +5, Sense Motive +3, Stealth +5, Survival -3, Swim -3, Use Magic Device +4; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Common, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Undercommon
SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +1), elf blood, fire-forged steel, fire-forged steel, inspiration (4/day), inspired panache, meticulous, trapfinding +1
Combat Gear healer's kit; Other Gear fire-forged steel chain shirt, fire-forged steel rapier, handy haversack, alchemy crafting kit, masterwork backpack, masterwork thieves' tools, travelling formula book, 34 pp, 5 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Alchemy +1 (Su) +1 to Craft (Alchemy) to create alchemical items, can Id potions by touch.
Careful Combatant When withdrawing, the first 2 squares of your movement are not considered threatened.
Elf Blood Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Energy Resistance, Fire (2) You have the specified Energy Resistance against Fire attacks.
Fire-Forged Steel Dwarves stumbled across the secret of crafting fire-forged steel in an effort to make forge-friendly tools. It didn’t take them long to adapt its unique properties to arms and armor. Fire-forged steel channels heat in one direction to protect its w
Fire-Forged Steel Dwarves stumbled across the secret of crafting fire-forged steel in an effort to make forge-friendly tools. It didn’t take them long to adapt its unique properties to arms and armor. Fire-forged steel channels heat in one direction to protect its w
Inspiration (+1d6, 4/day) (Ex) Use 1 point, +1d6 to trained skill or ability check. Use 2 points, to add to attack or save.
Inspired Panache (Ex) Gain no panache from killing blow, only from rapier crits.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Meticulous -2 on all untrained skill checks
Natural-Born Leader Your cohorts, followers, and summoned creatures gain +1 vs. Mind-affecting effects, +1 Leadership score if you have the Leadership feat.
Noble Born - Surtova +2 damage with light or one-handed weapons vs. flat-footed opponents
Panache (Ex) Gain a pool of points that are spent to fuel deeds, regained on light/piercing crit/killing blow.
Surge of Success Confirmed critical or natural 20 on save grants you a +2 bonus on one roll your next turn.
Trapfinding +1 Gain a bonus to find or disable traps, including magical ones.
--------------------
Lord Vetinari is a 5th son of a very minor noble. As such he as few to nil prospects of inheriting anything of significance. Family pushing him to choose a cushy military appointment or join the clergy. He refuses either stultifying choice.

His studies and watching from the sidelines has convinced him he can do a better job of running things than of the people in charge. No, he is not a traitor that is going to try a coup d’état to force out his own family. He’s going to go off on his own to find someplace to start-up something new or get himself into a position of authority and prove his theories. He intends to surround himself with experts (eventual leadership feat) on the multitude of topics required. But feels he has to be enough in-the-know to understand what they are discussing and not be conned into poor choices.

The adventuring is intended to build up a reputation and contacts for the eventual goal of being in charge of something. So he still has to be capable enough to pull his own weight in the party or he won’t be building up contacts, favors, and a favorable reputation. Primary role will be knowledge skills and maybe party face if no one else is competent at it. As well as trapfinding/disarming if necessary. Secondary combatant relying on the studied combat.

Well dressed as a noble should be, but a fairly average looking and unmemorable face.

Note: I'm not necessarily saying he will be great at running things, just that he thinks he will be great at running things.

I'm not entirely sure where I should go with which extracts and feats to choose. Any suggestions?


You may as well pump up Dex using levelling, items, mutagens etc and take Fencing Grace to add Dex to damage with your rapier. It's not going to be huge numbers, but it adds up. Unfortunately you can't use Power Attack to boost that higher given the 10 strength, and Piranha Strike only works with light weapons.

I'd definitely recommend Mutagen as your Investigator Talent at 3rd level. Being able to pump up a physical stat for a decent duration is very useful.


Hmm... Not sure mutagens seems like a very noble-ish kind of tactic. I will consider.

Yeah fencing grace certainly makes sense. I'm trying to remember, wasn't there something to pump up damage with inspiration?

Speaking of inspiration: which do you folks think is better FCB +1/3 to inspirations per day or +1/4 to the inspiration roll?

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

Revolving Door Alternate wrote:

Hmm... Not sure mutagens seems like a very noble-ish kind of tactic. I will consider.

Yeah fencing grace certainly makes sense. I'm trying to remember, wasn't there something to pump up damage with inspiration?

Speaking of inspiration: which do you folks think is better FCB +1/3 to inspirations per day or +1/4 to the inspiration roll?

Look at Expanded Inspiration (or the Mastermind's free inspiration skills). Now back to the FCB. What do you see? A +1 every 4 levels is a FANTASTIC use of the Half-Elf's ability to outpace almost anything and everything he puts skill ranks into. Being intelligent, perhaps also being a Fast Learner will let you have about 9-10 skill points per Investigator level--enough to flaunt social skills AND know-how.

Want diplomacy, knowledge checks, perception to be boosted above your ranks? You can cover all that with talents so that you add inspiration for free, and your FCB just increases those things even more. Eventually you can add d8+3 at Investigator level 12... or d10+3 for two skills you really enjoy (with Focused Inspiration).

Think of that FCB as having a +1 in ANYTHING in which you have free inspiration. And a sort of mini-action-point bonus to anything in which you SPEND inspiration on. I mean, adding d8+3 to an attack or a save AFTER rolling the d20, multiple times per day? That's really AWESOME!

I find the half elf to be the best-suited race (because of its FCB and because he counts as human AND elf for all abilities such as traits, feat prerequisites and so on). And hey, if it comes down to a duel against the foreign prince who insulted your house, you can always use some inspiration during the duel. Those static bonuses will start to add up.

Best of luck in your Noble Endeavours!

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