Halfling Fighter with a knack for magic? Help critique my character concept / build.


Advice

Liberty's Edge

Hey all,

This is a character concept / build for a PFS game. Below are the requirements that I'm wanting for this character.

1) Halfling
2) Mild ability to Disarm weapons (Improved Disarm. I don't think I want to invest a ton in Disarm.)
3) Does not have any innate magical abilities but always wishes she could cast spells (uses UMD with magical items instead.)
4) Wants people to believe she's a caster. (False Casting feat.)
5) Is disruptive to casters and ranged units (Step Up, not sure if anything else would be necessary.)

Lore Warden Halfling:

Class – 11 Lore Warden Fighter
Race – Halfling
Faction - Liberty Edge
Traits -
* Fighter Society (Combat trait, +1 AC if wearing medium or heavier armor)
* Dangerously Curious (Magic trait, +1 UMD & class skill)

Stats -
Str: 14 (-2 racial added)
Dex: 16 (+2 racial added)
Con: 12
Int: 13
Wis: 10
Cha: 12 (+2 racial added)

1) Fighter 1: Bab +1, Skill Focus: UMD (lvl 1), Power Attack (fighter)
2) Fighter 2: Bab +2, Weapon Focus: Scimitar (fighter), Combat Expertise (LWarden)
3) Fighter 3: Bab +3, Risky Striker (lvl 3)
4) Fighter 4: Bab +4, +1 Str, Weapon Spec: Scimitar (fighter)
5) Fighter 5: Bab +5, Medium Armor Proficiency (5)
6) Fighter 6: Bab +6/+1, Improved Disarm (fighter)
7) Fighter 7: Bab +7/+2, Additional Traits (lvl 7)
8) Fighter 8: Bab +8/+3, +1 Str, Improved Critical: Scimitar (fighter)
9) Fighter 9: Bab +9/+4, Magical Aptitude (lvl 9)
10) Fighter 10: Bab +10/+5, Step Up (fighter)
11) Fighter 11: Bab +11/+6/+1, False Casting (lvl 11)

Additional Traits:
* Captains Blade: Faction trait, +1 to Acrobatics and is a class skill
* Convincing Liar: Social trait, +1 to Bluff / Intimidate and Bluff is a class skill

Note: I don't think going the Weapon Finesse route would be best. It would require more feats and I don't want to drop Strength and lose out on Power Attack. (Piranha Strike is available but it's for light weapons which means I can't two-hand if I want.)

Use of Disarm: I'm using my offhand to disarm weapons when necessary, taking the -4 penalty but allowing me to essentially equip their weapon and use it against them if necessary....also prevents them from picking their weapon back up too. That's why I'm using a 1handed weapon and Lore Warden gives CMB boosts to help offset the offhand disarm penalty.

Medium Armor: I figured taking advantage of the +1AC fighter trait would be a smart move. Added Medium Armor Proficiency at 5th level (Maybe Armor Expert trait would be better though and negate the need to take Medium Armor Proficiency? Either way I'd be using a Mithral Breastplate.) Grabbing Acrobatics trait to make it a class skill later in preperation for Lore Warden's 11th level ability which goes off Acrobatics.
--------------------

I have most of what I want figured out. The arrangement of my feats is probably pretty poor though. I might also be missing some great options for a Fighter also. Feel free to point out anything you notice that could use some improvements! Thanks.


You would lose one bab in the end but perhaps a four level dip into the counterfeit Mage archetype would help. This gives you a rather small boost to umd as a class benefit plus the skills could help you get the social skills you want to convince everyone you are a genuine mage. Also at fourth level you get the ability to spend a small amount of time "practicing" with a wand this making it your "signature wand" allowing you to cast it with no check. Your signature wand can be changed as many times per day as you want so long as you take the time to practice each time you switch.


Also while I'm not entirely sure if the archetype is legal the Erdrich guardian gets a familiar which would probably greatly add to your ruse, plus if you do take the dip in counterfeit Mage, all the magical skills you are getting from lore warden would be class skills.

Scarab Sages

Instead of lore warden, why not a Stygian slayer? You have talents that can be used to help with disarming, can activate several wands without umd, and can take minor and major magic.

Liberty's Edge

Imbicatus wrote:
Instead of lore warden, why not a Stygian slayer? You have talents that can be used to help with disarming, can activate several wands without umd, and can take minor and major magic.

What Slayer talents would be used to help with disarming? I must be glancing over them. The Stygian Slayer gives some options for using some spells but it feels pretty restrictive. I'm more interested in using UMD to cast cleric, druid, ranger, wizard, etc spells and to emulate a certain class to activate some class specific items. I don't have anything specific that I'm aiming for but having the ability to dabble is what I want to keep open for this character.

@bowser36 - I like Eldritch Guardian suggestion but it can't be combined with Lore Warden and I'd rather have the +2 skill points, +6 to disarm CMB, and some of the other benefits. Counterfeit Mage looks like it requires quite a few levels to get any real benefit and I don't think I want to stray that far off...idk. Lore Warden also gets all Int based skills as class skills automatically.

Scarab Sages

Kyoko Hitomu wrote:


What Slayer talents would be used to help with disarming? I must be glancing over them.

I was thinking of the weapon snatcher rogue talent, but it looks like slayers actually don't get access to that one.

Liberty's Edge

I'm wondering if a 2 level dip of Maneuver Master Monk would work out better. I'd lose 1 BAB but gain +3 to all saves, Evasion, could take Improved Disarm and Improved Dirty Trick. I'd also gain Stunning Fist and IUS but those are just extra flavor/icing I'd say. I would lose that 3rd attack at 11th level, the 11th level Lore Master, and miss out on +2 to CMB but maybe the pro's outway the con's here?

With a 2 level dip I could do 2 maneuvers in a full attack. I think the Improved Disarm and Dirty Trick maneuvers fit the Halfling quite well, Improved Steal doesn't seem THAT useful in PFS but is tempting. Can a Maneuver Master flurry maneuvers while in Light Armor?

Liberty's Edge

Ok here's my revised build so far. Trying to keep this character as a dirty fighter / trickster build where she can trick people to think she's a caster with wands or scrolls but really dishes out a beating to those that get up in her face and she's not afraid to tip the odds in her favor.

Note: I'm thinking Bastard Sword is a good choice to UMD Lead Blades on and it allows her to 2hand fight, Deflect Arrows, and still threaten all at once since the Bastard Sword can be wielded 1hand or 2handed.

Maybe I'm missing some mandatory feats? Definitely staying Halfling and I'm going Str based.

Lore Warden 9 / Maneuver Master 2:

Class – 9 Fighter (Lore Warden) / 2 Monk (Maneuver Master)
Race – Halfling

Traits -
* Clever Wordplay (Social trait, Use Int mod for 1 Charisma-based skill of your choice)
* Dangerously Curious (Magic trait, +1 UMD & class skill)

Stats -
Str: 14 (-2 racial added)
Dex: 14 (+2 racial added)
Con: 14
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Cha: 10 (+2 racial added)

1) Fighter 1: Bab +1, Exotic Weapon Prof: Bastard Sword (lvl 1), Power Attack (fighter), +1hp
2) Maneuver Master 1: Bab +1, Improved Disarm (monk)
3) Maneuver Master 2: Bab +2, Improved Dirty Trick (monk), Skill Focus: UMD (lvl 3)
4) Fighter 2: Bab +3, +1 Dex, Deflect Arrows (fighter), Combat Expertise (LWarden), +1hp
5) Fighter 3: Bab +4, Step Up (5), +1hp
6) Fighter 4: Bab +5, Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword (fighter), +1hp
7) Fighter 5: Bab +6/+1, Additional Traits (lvl 7), +1hp
8) Fighter 6: Bab +7/+2, +1 Dex, Improved Critical: Bastard Sword (fighter), +1hp
9) Fighter 7: Bab +8/+3, Risky Striker (lvl 9), +1hp
10) Fighter 8: Bab +9/+4, Weapon Spec: Bastard Sword (fighter), +1hp
11) Fighter 9: Bab +10/+5, False Casting (lvl 11), +1hp

Additional Traits:
* Fiend Blood (Race trait, +1 to Bluff and Bluff is a class skill)
* ???


I don't think your revised build really screams "knack for magic."

I'd expect things like Eldritch Heritage and whatnot honestly.

Also personally I do not use combat maneuvers in general, and particularly not with a halfling. Unless you have some angle on carrying them out (like true strike for disarm, or barbarian strength surge for anything), they just get super hard to carry out as you level.

No idea what maneuver master does for this, but the +6 lore warden bonus isn't enough to make this one attractive. Although if you are going to do it, you picked the easiest one to make work. You can always grab staffs or something off of casters.

Dirty Trick is something else of course.

In your shoes I'd ... I'm not sure. Human and the extra feat (and being able to sub 3 skill focuses for the bonus feat) make an Eldritch Heritage character a lot easier to pull off. Elf has something where you can get some spell like abilities by trading some racial features.

Halfling doesn't seem like a terribly good choice.

Probably what I would do is not take Maneuver Master. I'd instead take a level or two of wizard (or a couple levels of sorcerer). Seems like Enlarge Person and True Strike would do more for your maneuver capability than the feats would do. I'd have to think about it, but might emphasize bloodline powers with sorcerer, and with Eldritch Heritage in conjunction.

Also why bastard sword? You spend a feat on that, for what 1 extra point of damage compared to a longsword? Not sure if there is a sweet spot with the dice using lead blades, but it doesn't seem worth it. I'd probably take quick draw (if I didn't use it for Magical Adept or an Eldritch Heritage prerequisite) and do something with thrown weapons. Or take an exotic weapon like the net.


Kyoko Hitomu wrote:
@bowser36 - I like Eldritch Guardian suggestion but it can't be combined with Lore Warden and I'd rather have the +2 skill points, +6 to disarm CMB, and some of the other benefits. Counterfeit Mage looks like it requires quite a few levels to get any real benefit and I don't think I want to stray that far off...idk. Lore Warden also gets all Int based skills as class skills automatically.

I'd second Eldritch Guardian for this concept. While you don't get the bonus skill points of Lore Warden, you do get UMD as a class skill. Combine that with the Pragmatic Activator trait and a moderate Int (13-14) you'd still have decent skill points and would be able to start using UMD for those class features a lot sooner than as a straight Lore Warden. You could easily have 5-6 in UMD by level 1 with no investment in Charisma. As an added bonus, I'm fairly certain you'd qualify for Improved Familiar at level 7 so you could morph your little buddy into something that could use your wands on you in combat to save you some actions.

If you do stick Lore Warden, definitely pick up the Dangerously Curious trait. That'd get you UMD as a class skill and an additional +1 bonus. Sadly, it's also a Magic trait, so you can't stack it with Pragmatic Activator.

Liberty's Edge

Great advice guys, I looked into the Eldritch Guardian and the more I looked at it the more I liked it.

We are playing in the Dragon's Demand campaign and it goes from level 1-7, so the cutoff for this character will be 7th level. But, we will earn credit through this campaign to have a 7th level character in PFS, which I'll be porting this character over as long as everything matches being PFS legal.

I' swapped a few things around. I think, given how we're going to be playing in a campaign without a dedicated healer (We'll have a Ratlord Druid, but that's the best we'll have), that I should probably stick with sword & board for fighting and go with weapon finesse to guarantee hitting and doing damage every turn. Should also let me be decent at ranged combat as long as the enemy isn't engaged in melee yet.

I bought the Familiar Folio book and went through the familiar archetypes. I was excited to use a Mauler archetype familiar and tried talking to my GM about a few familiar options but he got pretty short with me... So I'm a bit worried that this GM will be targeting my familiar and griefing me because "it's in combat". So I'm not sure the Protector or the Mascot are safe choices. I'm thinking a Raven with the Sage archetype might be the best option as it'd be able to cover any of the knowledge checks for the party. Thoughts / Suggestions? (I was thinking Goat familiar with Mauler archetype but GM will only give a +2str bonus and the +1str bonus from 3rd level and won't grant any +4str -2dex +2con change from it going from Small to Medium via Mauler size change.)

Halfling Eldritch Guardian:

Class – 7 Fighter (Eldritch Guardian)
Race – Halfling

Traits -
* Fighter Society (+1 AC if wearing armor)
* Clever Wordplay (Use Int for UMD)

Familiar -
* Raven with Sage archetype

Weapon: Sword Cane
Armor: Kikko
Shield: Heavy Wooden Shield
AC @ 1st level: 22

Stats -
Str: 12 (-2 racial added)
Dex: 18 (+2 racial added)
Con: 14
Int: 12
Wis: 12
Cha: 9 (+2 racial added)

1) Fighter 1: Bab +1, Weapon Finesse (lvl 1), +1hp
2) Fighter 2: Bab +2, +1hp
3) Fighter 3: Bab +3, Step Up (lvl 3), +1hp
4) Fighter 4: Bab +4, +1 Str, Power Attack (fighter), +1hp
5) Fighter 5: Bab +5, Weapon Focus: Sword Cane (5), +1hp
6) Fighter 6: Bab +6/+1, Weapon Spec: Sword Cane (fighter), +1hp
7) Fighter 7: Bab +7/+2, Risky Striker (lvl 7), +1hp


I'm not terribly familiar with familiars (eh? EH?) but from what I've heard pseudo dragons (spelling?) can be rather effective in combat. I heard this long before I heard anything about mauler archetypes for familiars. I don't know how they do this but it could be worth looking into as it seems you will not be allowed the full benefits of the mauler thing.

Might I ask why a sword cane?

Also as a general rule I try to leave one odd stat. This is because throughout the entire leveling process your character could ever go through (lvl 20) they will get 5 stat pluses. thus if you have all evens one will essentially be wasted. This still applies for PFS play because you will make it to about 12th level, at the very least I doubt you ever see 16, thus you would get 3 pluses, which still gives you an odd number meaning one ability plus will be a waste. I do see that CHA is an odd number though but I don't imagine you want to put your stat boost there. This is very munchkiny and may be ignored without terrible or even noticeable repercussions.

Hm, I thought of something I heard once that upon closer inspection would contradict what you were going for but I'll mention it anyway, even though what it allows you to do seems pointless at that point. A pathfinder savant Prc at first level can take 10 on UMD checks. Unfortunately the class requires the ability to cast second level spells. :( well it was a decent thought I suppose. Perhaps talk to your GM about replacing the spell casting requirement with so many ranks in kn-arcana and UMD? I apologize as that is a shaky suggestion and from what you said your gm doesn't seem terribly cooperative with something totally legal let alone this. I apologize that this last tidbit might put you in a pickle if you ask about it.

Liberty's Edge

noble peasant wrote:

I'm not terribly familiar with familiars (eh? EH?) but from what I've heard pseudo dragons (spelling?) can be rather effective in combat. I heard this long before I heard anything about mauler archetypes for familiars. I don't know how they do this but it could be worth looking into as it seems you will not be allowed the full benefits of the mauler thing.

Might I ask why a sword cane?

Also as a general rule I try to leave one odd stat. This is because throughout the entire leveling process your character could ever go through (lvl 20) they will get 5 stat pluses. thus if you have all evens one will essentially be wasted. This still applies for PFS play because you will make it to about 12th level, at the very least I doubt you ever see 16, thus you would get 3 pluses, which still gives you an odd number meaning one ability plus will be a waste. I do see that CHA is an odd number though but I don't imagine you want to put your stat boost there. This is very munchkiny and may be ignored without terrible or even noticeable repercussions.

Hm, I thought of something I heard once that upon closer inspection would contradict what you were going for but I'll mention it anyway, even though what it allows you to do seems pointless at that point. A pathfinder savant Prc at first level can take 10 on UMD checks. Unfortunately the class requires the ability to cast second level spells. :( well it was a decent thought I suppose. Perhaps talk to your GM about replacing the spell casting requirement with so many ranks in kn-arcana and UMD? I apologize as that is a shaky suggestion and from what you said your gm doesn't seem terribly cooperative with something totally legal let alone this. I apologize that this last tidbit might put you in a pickle if you ask about it.

Thank you, I appreciate you posting your advice. I've looked into the Pseudodragon and it appears that you can't take an one of the Familiar Folio archetypes with your familiar as they replace some abilities that they don't possess. There's a post with the author that also mentions this somewhere on the forums here. The other issue is that I'd only be able to get a Pseudodragon at 7th level which would be the end of the campaign. I could port this character over to PFS with a Pseudodragon but I think I'm still out of luck with combining it with the Mauler archetype.

I thought the Sword Cane might be interesting as it's hardly used. It also passes as a "staff" or "cane" that a caster would use and then is revealed in the heat of combat as a sword.

I'm pretty curious as to other familiar options and archetypes. If it were possible I'd probably pick a familiar I could ride in combat but I doubt that a Medium sized Goat with 15str would be able to support heavily armored halfling. In that direction I'd be more interested in using a lance.


Hey I'm all for using a sword cane, I was simply curious as to your reasoning. It doubling as a wizard staff/walking stick is a cool idea I didn't even think of. Frankly I've never had a familiar as I've yet to play a full caster, nor have I gone out of my way with other classes to get one so unfortunately I have little advice to offer on them, but I hear they are quite handy. I also took a quick look at the sage archetype for them and totes approve. I kinda see it as a chance to slack off a bit in your kn-arcana to get other skills since your bird could whisper little tips to ya. Not to much slacking as that would defeat the point of what your going for, but the little fella could ease some of the strain as from what I can tell you're still not getting a ton of ranks. I definitely haven't extensively looked at familiar types or archetypes, but the idea of your bird essentially being a living cheat sheet is nice.

Scarab Sages

If you think your GM might be targeting your familiar, you might be better off with a figment. They aren't quite as effective in combat, but they cannot be permanently killed.


I did think of that actually, but since the familiar seemed to be being targeted because of it's apparent ability to be a competent combatant I wasn't sure if lessening it's combat prowess so that it couldn't be killed off permanently, might be counter intuitive as yes he has prepared for the GM targeting it, but has also gotten rid of the reason it was possibly being targeted. Idk, getting a little confusing lol. XD

Liberty's Edge

Imbicatus wrote:
If you think your GM might be targeting your familiar, you might be better off with a figment. They aren't quite as effective in combat, but they cannot be permanently killed.

Well I saw the figment archetype but it states that the familiar only exists in your mind....which really has me wondering if it can even attack a creature since it's not an illusion that they believe or disbelieve it simply doesn't exist to them as it's only in the master's mind that it's even there. The GM would possibly argue for that.

I asked if he'd target my familiar if it was aiding another to give bonuses to attack or aiding to bodyguard me and his response was "when a mosqeto bites you... you squish it." I sent a lovely message telling him that he just answered why 99% of people pick a +4 initiative bonus familiar and treat it as it never existed except for on their character sheet when they roll their initiative scores. I told him I'd just use a Raven with the Sage archetype and pretend it didn't exist except for when knowledge checks needed to be rolled.

I'd love to have the author comment on whether he intended the Figment archetype familiar to actually be able to affect creatures in reality despite it existing only in the master's mind though.


Your GM must hate the idea of familiars... It's one thing to target a familiar being used in combat that is fair game IMO. BUT he/she totally destroyed your totes legal option to have your familiar be the slightest bit capable of defending itself! No fun no fun.

Liberty's Edge

I ended up going 12 Str, 17 Dex, 14 Con, 14 Int, 12 Wis, 9 Cha. We hit level 2 and I'm sitting at 22hp with 22AC and +6atk. The only downside at the moment is my low damage (1d4+1). Is there any feat (PFS Legal) that allows you to use dex for damage with a Cane Sword? I know Fencing Grace allows you for Rapiers only, just wondering if there's a class (or archetype) or a feat that would do the same for a Cane Sword.

Also, the Seer archetype Raven was working great. My raven was able to roll any knowledge checks and weigh in if she knew anything about said knowledge.

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