Scenario Experiences in Core So Far


Pathfinder Society

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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Just a little thread to chat about how things went down during actual gameplay in Core games (i.e. not theorycrafting).

In 8 days, I had 4 games of Core: 3 as a player, 1 as a GM.

Silent Tide / FLGS:

5 players. 3 brand new PCs (no PP), 2 PCs with 2 PP but played by folks new to PFS. I convinced both of them a CLW wand would be a good purchase.

Party:
L1 Reach Cleric of Desna (Me)
L1 Sorceror
L1 Sorceror (another one)
L1 TWF Barbarian
L1 Pregen Paladin

This was my first time ever playing Silent Tide. Yikes, it was a bit rough at times given the Sorcerors were reduced to firing light crossbows/casting ranged touch spells with tons of penalties at times and the melee folks occasionally dropping to negatives. Storming the tower(?) at the end was particularly nerve wracking for my true 0XP/0PP character. I'll admit we used the hell out of those CLW wands and all of us who used them promised to carry the healing burden the next time we played with those characters again.

To Scale the Dragon / CON:

4 Players. All pregens. Tier 5-6.

Party:
L7 Kyra (me, with a slightly more practical spell list)
L7 Seelah
L7 Merisiel
L7 Seoni

I've played this before and, like before, abhorred the whole sled mechanic. We muddled through it thanks to a nice GM.

The only fight I was pre-emptively worried about was the Remorrhaz. I figured it would spell the doom of 1 or 2 of the front liners and possibly be a TPK with the pre-gens.

Paladin hits, sword doesn't melt.
Remhorrhaz misses.
Sorceror magic missiles.
Merisiel moves to flank.
Remhorrhaz misses AOO.
Flanking Merisiel crits.
Paladin crits...but sword gets broken condition.
Remhorrhaz misses.
Sorceror finishes it off with magic missile.

Well, that was unexpected!

Frozen Fingers of Midnight / CON:

6 Players
L2 Elf Sword and Board Fighter (elven curveblade)
L1 Rogue
L1 Sorceror
L1 Rogue
L1 Reach Cleric of Cayden

and since I didn't want to basically play a clone of the other player's PC and step on their toes, I rebuilt my Reach Cleric into a

L1 Falchion Paladin

The only tricky fight was the warehouse scrum where, at various points during the fight, 4 of us went unconscious...including the lucky L1 Rogue who barely survived a great axe crit when they were taken from full to about -10 (remember kids, a CON of 12-14 is a great thing). Luckily the cleric and I were never out at the same time and we could do damage control as needed.

Crypt of the Everflame / FLGS:

5 Players
GM: me, pressed into service at last second due to too many sign ups/walk ins

L1 Sorceror
L1 TWF Barbarian
L1 Merisiel
L1 Kyra
L1 Valeros

Since it was basically a table of players new to PFS, with a possibility of 3 them not coming back (they were just dipping their toes into it) I did my best to make the experience RP friendly and rules-light as I could, only introducing concepts like take 10/take 20 or delaying when it gave them a distinct advantage.

The only fight I was worried about was the stupid shadow fight, which with much GM nudging and playing suboptimally on my part, they barely overcame with about 6ish STR damage between 2 players. They were about to breach the second level when time ran out.

Biggest thing, which is always true, but feels magnified so far:
-Less steamrolling at L1 since there's less tools in the toolbox.
-PCs are so fragile since encounters now last a bit longer.
-tactics, tactics, tactics

Personal Observation:
I feel less inclined to be experimental with my character build because every person must pull their weight until there is a pool of capable PCs for scenarios.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

The death rate for CORE games in our region has been much higher than in Classic.

Usually we run a marathon of replayable scenarios to get characters through the first couple levels. Usually, there's no deaths. But that's largely because we have 1st level PCs doing 5d4 Burning Hands, or Bards with Lingering Performance, or Fates Favored Half-orcs, or a Witch with Slumber Hex.

My 3rd level Half-orc Ranger (dual-wielding a Double Axe) has now been the sole survivor of one scenario (Among the Dead, IIRC) and one module (Thornkeep, Accursed Halls). I also forced another group to flee Accursed Halls after only 2 characters survived Sir Silvercrown.

CORE definitely seems more deadly, thus far.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Well, I GMed a game, online, of Mists of Mwangi.

Sub-tier 1-2, with mainly 1st & 2nd level PCs, along with one 3rd level PC.

No deaths, but there were a couple of points where bad luck, more than Core builds, almost doomed the party.

Against the flying masks, the party of 5 and an AC had 4 failed Fort saves, used rerolls, made the rerolls. Unfortunately, the second mask did the same thing, and the same group again failed their Fort saves, with no rerolls left. That looked ugly for a while, even leaving two PCs poisoned, and one losing his hair.

Most of the rest wasn't bad, comparatively, but they did have a couple of heavy hitters in the party. Indeed, they came very close to losing the second PP...

DaTunga, unfortunately, still suffers from being DaTunga, so he only got one set of attacks off before he got wiped...

Edit: I also played a local game of Murder on the Throaty Mermaid, mainly with first level PCs. Not a lot of trouble, but that was, in part, because no one aggravated the <redacted> in the cargo. Dealing with the concealment effects during the first fight was a bit of a pain.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Just in your games Nefreet.

I have found the opposite, the games are still fairly easy, though I had started off with season zero games. We will be moving into some season 3, 4,5 stuff soon. Running Quest for perfection series in April, I expect some tough encounters then.

The main thing I've noticed is that we work together as a team more, which helps everyone succeed.

4/5 *

I've run a couple of Core games, and both have been great fun. Combats seem about right: the BBEG fight is tough but survivable (usually with a few people into negatives at various times); the other fights also last more than a round.

Downside: last game, my entire table was replaying the scenario. It wasn't a surprise-based scenario, so not a big deal, but this may be a major damper on some of the scenarios. My group was excellent at not metagaming, but still, the "big reveals" feel a bit flat because of replay.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/5 **

I've run about 3 Core scenarios and played 1 module, 3 levels of Emerald Spire and 6 odd scenarios. The highest level thing I've played or run was subtier 4-5

I'm finding Core distinctly harder (both as a GM and a player). Its certainly still winnable but its harder. One death so far but that was partly aggressive play and largely bad luck (crit rolling above average against a favoured enemy). The subtier 4-5 could have been a TPK but the GM was softballing a little. One scenario I ran would have been a TPK but I softballed a little.

Core is definitely starting to cause better play to occur in general. People are actually caring about tactics. Poor tactics can doom you.

There is definitely less room for mismatched parties, parties playing up, characters who don't pull their weight, players who don't pull their weight, etc. One or more problems here can really be a problem.

Going through a LOT more expendables. Especially CLW charges.

Almost all of the Core that I've experienced has been with experienced players, not new players. With that group, I like the effect.

But I expect lots of later season higher level scenarios will be quite deadly, especially with a GM who doesn't like to pull punches.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/5 RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8

Good idea to have a communal thread for our impressions of Core!

Here's an older one from another poster: Glav's thoughts on core

And here are my latest thoughts on core, from another thread.

Quote:


Consumables are key to consistent success. Thunderstones, smokesticks, tanglefoot bags--tons of great consumables are accessable in Core. Wands of faerie fire, scrolls of darkvision, oils of daylight--all the usual tricks are also in Core.

Strategy is key to consistent success. Getting flanking in general. Denying flanking for enemy rogues. Interrupting spellcasters, removing holy symbols, disarming fighters, etc. Things that could be in regular PFS but often are neglected because RAWR DAMAGE is a stronger option. Since those RAWR DAMAGE builds are fewer in our local scene, smart playing becomes key.

Any class is viable when played intelligently. Even core only monks. Even rogues. Even non-early entry arcane tricksters. So what, the build isn't as good as another one. You can still enjoy it and be an important member at your table. My highest core character (lvl 6) is a monk and contributes to the table.

In the game I played just tonight, I used my character to shove one end bosses overboard, steal the enemy cleric's unholy symbol, trip the enemy cleric, and used a wand of faerie fire to reveal the cleric when he went invisible.

None of those used my class abilities, and I was still able to help out. Any class is viable when played intelligently.

Looks like we're getting some common themes between these posts and what's been shared in this thread

  • Teamwork and tactics are more important in Core
  • Consumables are more important in Core
  • Playing up is more dangerous in Core / higher level play is more dangerous in Core
  • PC death is more of a reality in Core
  • Core is generally well recieved / those participating are enjoying it

To me this suggests that Core is cultivating a base of system-savvy individuals that rely on tactics and one another for success. While content can be more difficult to progress through, it is still rewarding and being enjoyed. I like it!

2/5

Because of the added threat core has re-instituted as a gm i find myself looking closer at scenarios for alternate ways to win instead of just expecting players to one shot or save or die the end encounters. Also because i see only new players just getting in or very experienced players at my core tables the role play/ non combats get even more spotlight than normal.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

So, my experiences so far:

The Confirmation:
4 players. 1 hastily assembled human wizard, Lem, Kyra, Amiri. Total XP: Zero. GM forgot 4 player adjustment on some encounters.

The result:
Complete stomp. PCs never in danger. Boss swiftly dispatched. Janira never hit negatives.

Notes:
Constructed PC's contribution differed from Ezren's largely in the application of Point Blank Shot to backpack contents.

Frozen Fingers of Midnight:
5 players. 3 wizards, 1 cleric/anticleric pair, 2 total XP, 1 Wayfinder, 0 BAB, zero wands of anything.

The result:
Complete stomp. 1 fight trivialized by 1 Color Spray. 1 fight trivialized by 1 Color Spray and a Grease. 1 fight trivialized by Grease. No danger except a brief excursion to negatives from a nat 20 threat/nat 20 confirm by a prone zombie.

Notes:
Healing resources expended: 2 potions found in scenario, 1 channel from the +cleric for 2 points.
Wizard from Confirmation spent scenario gold on a masterwork crossbow that hit once for 5 damage.
Interesting and fun mix of character personalities.
Three characters all had the Master of Pentacles trait. One already had Augment Summoning.

1/5 *

The group I'm playing with is running the Season 4 campaign path from the Pathfinder Society Campaign Paths thread.

The majority of the party is quite experienced with Pathfinder in general and have built relatively strong CORE characters. That said, there have been several near death experiences due to lapses in tactical awareness, powerful enemy tactics (paralysis and darkness in particular) and/or bad luck. "Optimized play" has gotten us into a few sticky situations (ie. I still have a move action left, lets run down this hallway to maximize my turn... and trigger another encounter).

However, the most important thing I can say about my CORE campaign experience so far is that I'm having more fun playing in a campaign with more strict limitations than I was having in the more open general campaign. It's not for everyone, but so far it's been for me.

The Exchange 5/5

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I'd like to mention two Core games I was involved with just a week or two ago, two with an odd connection - First Steps and then Confirmation...

The First Steps was run by a begining Judge - her first game (our 13 year old judge - with the next youngest person at the table was her mom - but that is another story). Mostly it was a lot of fun - except for the final fight, and the Mist was just a total pain. Didn't really change things and crippled both the bandits and the PCs. I'm not sure if it would have been much different in a non-Core game... But the judge found a great likely for Ledford and the lack of complex tactics for that character. So much so that she built a "look alike" for him and took it into the next Core game as a PC - so we played Confirmation with a Halfling Barbarian with a great ax named Ledford (the halfling, not the ax).

Anyway - second game was a lot of fun - and the final blow was glorious!

The PCs are rushing out of the cave to save the little halfling lady and shooting at the Big Bad. Ledford (from the back of the party) moves out of the cave up to the difficult area (the trees), and draws the potion of Feather Step (from the back pack). Next round he drinks the potion and moves up to 10' short of the stream. Then the third round he charges across - jumping the stream (I wasn't sure if he could charge and jump - but heck, rule of kewl and all that) right into combat with the BBE. Big Bad swings an AOO and misses "the Mustache with Feet". The little guy rolls his first (and only) nat "20" of the night, and just barely confirms the crit (thanks in part to the Bards singing). This, backed up with the damage from the missile fire (Force Missiles from the Evoker Wiz and arrows/bolts from the other players) and the BBE is down - dead.

So yeah, the male Halfling barbarian charged the monster and put him down with one Ax blow! Saving the female halfling bard.... fade to next scene (hay! the barbarian is run by a 13 year old girl! So clean up those thoughts you gamer geeks you!)

And thus the Big Bad from the old intro game killed the Big Bad from the second intro game...

Liberty's Edge 5/5

nosig wrote:

Glorious tale within:
I'd like to mention two Core games I was involved with just a week or two ago, two with an odd connection - First Steps and then Confirmation...

The First Steps was run by a begining Judge - her first game (our 13 year old judge - with the next youngest person at the table was her mom - but that is another story). Mostly it was a lot of fun - except for the final fight, and the Mist was just a total pain. Didn't really change things and crippled both the bandits and the PCs. I'm not sure if it would have been much different in a non-Core game... But the judge found a great likely for Ledford and the lack of complex tactics for that character. So much so that she built a "look alike" for him and took it into the next Core game as a PC - so we played Confirmation with a Halfling Barbarian with a great ax named Ledford (the halfling, not the ax).

Anyway - second game was a lot of fun - and the final blow was glorious!

The PCs are rushing out of the cave to save the little halfling lady and shooting at the Big Bad. Ledford (from the back of the party) moves out of the cave up to the difficult area (the trees), and draws the potion of Feather Step (from the back pack). Next round he drinks the potion and moves up to 10' short of the stream. Then the third round he charges across - jumping the stream (I wasn't sure if he could charge and jump - but heck, rule of kewl and all that) right into combat with the BBE. Big Bad swings an AOO and misses "the Mustache with Feet". The little guy rolls his first (and only) nat "20" of the night, and just barely confirms the crit (thanks in part to the Bards singing). This, backed up with the damage from the missile fire (Force Missiles from the Evoker Wiz and arrows/bolts from the other players) and the BBE is down - dead.

So yeah, the male Halfling barbarian charged the monster and put him down with one Ax blow! Saving the female halfling bard.... fade to next scene (hay! the barbarian is run by a 13 year old girl! So clean up those thoughts you gamer geeks...

Ledford Vs. Minotaur: No matter who wins, first level PCs lose!

Always good when a new player gets an awesome story to tell.

Lantern Lodge 5/5

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Shades of Ice I:

The party: Gnome Paladin, Gnome Sorcerer, Half-Orc Cleric of Serenrae (Fire/Sun), Human Barbarian.

Combined prior XP: 1 (w/1 PP, so no CLW wands).

Every fight was a fight to the edge. We had durations of color spray run out before fights could be finished. (But holy crap would we have been boned without them!)

The greatsword-wielding Barbarian was the only character who could pile on double-digit damage. Unfortunately, he was knocked into negatives at some point in every fight. The Paladin had excellent AC (Splint Mail, Heavy Shield) but was swinging at +3 for 1d6+1 (and the rolls weren't with her). The cleric's fire bolt domain power and the sorcerer's elemental rays and color sprays really turned the tide of most battles.

We had no diplomacy, which cost us a Prestige, but it saved our lives- -resting because we had no leads refreshed our ability to fight.

The final battle ended with the Paladin with 1 HP, the sorcerer and barbarian unconscious, and the Selective Channel-less cleric having to decide if picking up three bad guys was worth healing two friendlies.

So, it was a blast. Would play CORE again.


Jayson MF Kip wrote:

** spoiler omitted **

So, it was a blast. Would play CORE again.

Spoiler:
Speaking as the fool who ran the cleric without Selective Channeling I can hardly say that my fire bolt carried the day (or anything else for that matter). I was hoping to blast a bunch of undead in a scenario where such an encounter was unlikely.
Shadow Lodge 3/5

Would be interested to see if players new to the game are playing in core and what their experience is, since there might be some newer players introduced to PFS via a core character with core teams.

I'm expecting it would be very different to veterans who might be able to use funky tactics to survive a little more intuitively.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

From BattleCon, which managed to happen last month despite everything:

Scenario: 1-55 The Infernal Vault

Players: Human barbarian (aspiring dragon disciple) 1, dwarf barbarian 1, dwarf cleric 1, Merisiel, all with zero XP, plus human wizard 1 with 2 xp and a CLW wand.

Result: No real difficulty. GM's rules knowledge was startlingly bad. There was some DR but there were also barbarians so whatevs. Bunch of color sprays thrown around by both sides in the end fight, pulled out some folio rerolls but barely delayed the inevitable.
------------------------

Scenario: 1-39 The Citadel of Flame

Players: Same as above minus Merisiel, wizard now 2, a couple more wands. Also, 2 new players: half elf? druid and halfling cleric. They had no idea what was up with the whole Core thing and didn't understand why they couldn't play their existing characters which only had material from core but had apparently played a previous non-core slot. The cleric's player in particular was very upset by this. They were told to just restart core versions of the same characters and go on.

Results: No problems. Bridge fight was time-consuming but not actually hard. Part-way through it was discovered that the halfling did in fact have a non-core option (fleet foot); this was glossed over.
-------------

I'm really wondering how it's going to go for any newer and less plugged-in players at Origins and GenCon. I note that the event grid for the former just sticks "CORE" in the event name with no further explanation. There's really no way that any players who aren't regular forum readers are going to know what that means, and I sure don't know who's going to have time to explain why half the Pathfinder Society tables at the con can't be played with the same characters as the other half. Supposedly lots of new players sign up for PFS at these cons.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

From CincyCon, last weekend:

Scenario: City of Strangers part 1

PCs: Wizard 2, Barbarian 1/Sorcerer 1 (aspiring DD), paladin 3, ranger 3, fighter 1, cleric 1.

Result: Easy early fights. An actual death: the pre-DD took a sleep spell within a 5-foot step of the boss. The rest of the party was bearing down and the GM initially said the boss would use a scroll of invisibility and maneuver away, but then retconned himself and said he'd step over and cut the grass instead. Boss was then promptly beaten down by the rest of the group, and money was pooled for raise dead.
------------------------------------

Scenario: City of Strangers part 2

PCs: Wizard 2 and aspiring DD 2 from above, plus rogue 1, cleric 1, and Kyra 1.

Result: I liked playing this one back-to-back with part 1 from a roleplaying perspective. I didn't get that chance in Standard. Fights still pretty easy if longer for lack of raw damage.
-------------------------------------

I do like the opportunities for replay from Core. I just wish they weren't tied to a fairly pointless set of character restrictions.

4/5

I see a lot of confusion concerning Core rules from newer players and players that aren't "plugged in" as well. Sadly, I think this will go on for a very long time.

Grand Lodge 4/5 Global Organized Play Coordinator

Dave Setty wrote:


Supposedly lots of new players sign up for PFS at these cons.

We issued 741 new PFS cards last year at Gen Con.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Michael Brock wrote:
Dave Setty wrote:


Supposedly lots of new players sign up for PFS at these cons.

We issued 741 new PFS cards last year at Gen Con.

Yeah, I remember it was something like that. I dunno how these things are going to be phrased in Gen Con's event listings, but that's potentially a lot of confused people.

2/5

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My biggest criticism of Core is that everything it tries to do, D&D 5e arguable does better.

Have less rules and interactions to create a more streamlined game that's easier for new players and new GMs to get into? Well, 5e was designed to be a more streamlined rule set. Nice and light, go ahead and hop right in! Plus, the classes are much more modern and they've applied the lessons learned from both 3.5 and 4th edition.

Provide old players with more opportunities to receive credit for playing? Well, 5e has their organized play and you get to play entirely new scenarios for it! You don't even have to replay the same stories you already know.

I just don't see how Core fills any niche in the tabletop RPG market. Pathfinder is great because of the options and content created over the years. Core takes all that away and you're left with outdated classes that just aren't that great, they even dedicated a book to updating 3 of the 11 classes in the Core Rulebook (and made significant changes that serve to update the Fighter class as well).

So what's Core selling point on the market? I guess there's familiarity, but that's all I can really come up with. Yes, I understand the selling point with respect to NORM PFS Play, but when compared to the rest of the market I see nothing. Is it really worth expanding play options for players, when those options are pedestrian?

My recommendation would have been this: update all the Core Rulebook classes in Unchained, and then let players use either the Core Rulebook or the Unchained versions of those classes.

Grand Lodge 5/5 Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic

Many of the scenario experiences described in this thread are Year 0 scenarios. Those were written for "3.5 PHB" characters, so even less powerful than core (less feats, less hitpoints (favorite class bonus), less pointbuy, -11 is dead instead of minus con). I expect the real challenge is playing CORE characters in S4 & S6.

Playing down instead of up is always a possibility.

Sovereign Court 4/5

StFrancisss wrote:
appears to be complaining about stuff (i could be inferring tone where there is none. If so, i apologize)

Since it appears fairly obvious that Core isn't for you, don't play it. We've had nothing but great community reaction to Core.

Players being forced to think outside the box. Using the same limited resources in a new and different way. Players having to rely on teamwork and solid tactics rather than soloing.

Scenarios actually being challenging, since there aren't a million (hyperbole? I haven't done the math) powerful combinations that break the CR system.

2/5

Dave Baker wrote:
StFrancisss wrote:
appears to be complaining about stuff (i could be inferring tone where there is none. If so, i apologize)

Since it appears fairly obvious that Core isn't for you, don't play it. We've had nothing but great community reaction to Core.

Players being forced to think outside the box. Using the same limited resources in a new and different way. Players having to rely on teamwork and solid tactics rather than soloing.

Scenarios actually being challenging, since there aren't a million (hyperbole? I haven't done the math) powerful combinations that break the CR system.

Ok? So among tabletop RPGs what makes Core better than 5e? How are you going to market it? Just because it's good, doesn't mean there isn't room for improvements and that it's immune to any and all criticisms.

I feel like you're just dismissing my opinions by claiming they're "complaints." Does that make my experiences any less valid? It's perfectly acceptable to understand a person's opinions but still reject their conclusions.

It's frustrating to just be told "well it's just not for you" when there is a thread explicitly made for sharing personal experiences. I want to be able to share my opinions with Paizo and the community so we can make improvements to organized play instead of just relying on a, "well it's good enough now, and anybody who doesn't like it can be dismissed out of hand" type of attitude.

I just can't figure out where Core Campaign fits in the overall table top RPG market. The only thing people point to is how it's different from Norm Campaign. And that's great if there weren't alternatives available, but there are. There are plenty of great ones out there. I just want to know what makes Core special. What makes it stand out. Why should I be excited to play it? And I refer back to all my complaints as to why I'm not. I'm not asking for Core to be compared to Norm, I'm asking for Core to be compared to other games as well.

Sovereign Court 5/5 *

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
StFrancisss wrote:
Dave Baker wrote:
StFrancisss wrote:
appears to be complaining about stuff (i could be inferring tone where there is none. If so, i apologize)

Since it appears fairly obvious that Core isn't for you, don't play it. We've had nothing but great community reaction to Core.

Players being forced to think outside the box. Using the same limited resources in a new and different way. Players having to rely on teamwork and solid tactics rather than soloing.

Scenarios actually being challenging, since there aren't a million (hyperbole? I haven't done the math) powerful combinations that break the CR system.

Ok? So among tabletop RPGs what makes Core better than 5e? How are you going to market it? Just because it's good, doesn't mean there isn't room for improvements and that it's immune to any and all criticisms.

Well first off, one can play CORE PFS pretty much anywhere at anytime, instead of only on Wednesdays at registered game stores.

Grand Lodge 2/5

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StFrancisss wrote:
I'm not asking for Core to be compared to Norm, I'm asking for Core to be compared to other games as well.

First, I have no stake in this either way (Normal/Core). I have played and run both, each has its own PROs and CONs.

What I am reading from you though is you seem to be looking at Core as though it were some kind of product line. It is not that, not really. I mean, I guess it is a product line with a very short list of products in it. But it is not new and it will never be expanded on, so... It is just another way to play a game, of which there are many ways to play already. You cannot really market it in the same way you would a full product line because, in truth, all your players (probably) already have the book they need. Does that excuse the chaos and confusion of how it is presented to potential players at a game store or convention? Absolutely not. But you cannot bring to bare the same marketing channels and resources to solve that problem as you would to launch a new product because they are largely incomparable. Normal PFS play does not get the right kind of marketing (largely), so how are you going to justify targeting a sub-set of a sub-set of a sub-set?

It is not really a system you should try to compare to other systems in that sense. It is a mode of play for an existing system. That other game is different, for different reasons. This game is different for different reasons, and Core mode play, as far as I can tell, largely appeals to: 1) new consumers afraid of the weight of system mastery, 2) consumers who find system bloat unappealing, and 3) consumers who just want to replay for credit for whatever reasons they deem valid. Why would you try to compare a mode of play with a completely other game system? Doom on Nightmare mode is nothing like Mario64. It is true. It is ok to enjoy them both, or not. But it is a little illogical to say Doom is loosing players to Mario64 because of the Nightmare mode setting.

Being dismissed because you disagree is lame and lazy, however it is a little unclear to me what you actual want out of this interaction (sharing your experience). It sounds to me like you are saying "Core play will never work because of 5e." So from that perspective, taken from your original post on the matter, it does sort of seem like you are chaffing under the Pathfinder Rules as a whole and find 5e to be a better suited system for your style of play. If so that's great. But you cannot really come in and advocate for Core play to be more like 5e, that just isn't a realistic goal for you or for Pazio.

What makes core special is that there are a certain sub-set of gamers who really, really enjoy being able to do it differently. Summoners piss you off? Core. Gunslingers piss you off? Core. Don't even understand why the Advanced Class Guide is a book? Core. Want to brag that you can do it without all those new fangled fancy feats? Core. Hate power creep? Core. Want to fix problems inherent to the Pathfinder Core Rules? Core. Something else?

The Exchange 5/5

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scenario experiences in Core so far?

played Bone Keep I with Core PCs and had a lot of fun. (Barbarian, 2 Paladins, and 2 Druids). In fact - I personally had a lot more fun doing that then when I played it in Normal.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

Dave Baker wrote:
We've had nothing but great community reaction to Core.

The best I can say about Core is that it's not much different from normal play. I've had fun, but none of the fun had anything to do with the rule changes. And "nothing but great community reaction" is not what I've been seeing on these forums. For one thing there's the fact that Core seemed to generate nothing but confusion for the only actual new players I've played it with.

Dave Baker wrote:
Players being forced to think outside the box. Using the same limited resources in a new and different way. Players having to rely on teamwork and solid tactics rather than soloing.

Or, ya know, just letting the barbarian or the pouncing druid cat shred everything.

Dave Baker wrote:
Scenarios actually being challenging, since there aren't a million (hyperbole? I haven't done the math) powerful combinations that break the CR system.

No, just a smaller number of well-known combinations that break the CR system, they're just more cookie-cutter. (I know I mentioned up above a scenario where 3 out of 5 characters had the same trait...)

I think a lot of the "difficulty" reported on this thread is just people cherry-picking the scenarios that were close calls due to circumstances or bad luck. (Which is why I've been reporting all of mine.)

2/5

Quote:

Core mode play, as far as I can tell, largely appeals to: 1) new consumers afraid of the weight of system mastery, 2) consumers who find system bloat unappealing, and 3) consumers who just want to replay for credit for whatever reasons they deem valid.

Right... All of which 5e arguably does better (mainly the first two. But 5e does open up new scenarios for people to play).

But again, my opinions are just being dismissed as "well that's just not your style of play."

Quote:
That other game is different, for different reasons. (regarding the comparison of 5e to Core)

Yes, and this other system solves the solutions Core set out to solve better.

Quote:
I think a lot of the "difficulty" reported on this thread is just people cherry-picking the scenarios that were close calls due to circumstances or bad luck.

And also because a lot of simple solutions to things are more difficult in Core. For example, Air Crystals are amazing and cheap. Or a spell like Monkey Fish (which lets you swim/climb) as a level 1 spell, compared to Spider Climb a second level spell. It's just easier to bypass certain parts of the scenario and make them a heck of a lot easier. But overall I agree with you, I don't think Core is vastly more difficult than Norm, but I've mostly played Season 0 in Core.

Scarab Sages 5/5

Sammy T wrote:
Just a little thread to chat about how things went down during actual gameplay in Core games .

I'm running a group through Emerald Spire Core - it is a lot harder - no deaths, but it seems pretty clear we are not going to get all that far as first death that does not come back ends the group play, because there are so few core players.

swarms are a serious encounter again - even at higher levels - no swarm-bane clasp, no alchemists - this is more theory-crafting except there was a realization after one encounter of what it means for the melee or range chararacters in the future.

Grand Lodge 2/5

StFrancisss wrote:

Right... All of which 5e arguably does better (mainly the first two. But 5e does open up new scenarios for people to play).

But again, my opinions are just being dismissed as "well that's just not your style of play."

But your main/only point seems to be that 5e is a better rule set than the Core Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. Either way that is your opinion, but coming to a PFS message board about Core mode play to point out your opinion on the matter is not likely to be well received. The state of the 5e rules vs. the PFRPG rules really has no place in this particular place. There is nothing from a rules or theory perspective that can be changed here. Advantage/disadvantage mechanics are great because of their elegance at the table, but you cannot expect they will be adopted into Core mode play because you come here and argue for it.

If you want to help the Core community, provide feedback that is relevant and specific to it, not just that you feel 5e does things better. Ya follow?

Sovereign Court 4/5

Dave Setty wrote:
Dave Baker wrote:
We've had nothing but great community reaction to Core.

The best I can say about Core is that it's not much different from normal play. I've had fun, but none of the fun had anything to do with the rule changes. And "nothing but great community reaction" is not what I've been seeing on these forums. For one thing there's the fact that Core seemed to generate nothing but confusion for the only actual new players I've played it with.

Dave Baker wrote:
Players being forced to think outside the box. Using the same limited resources in a new and different way. Players having to rely on teamwork and solid tactics rather than soloing.

Or, ya know, just letting the barbarian or the pouncing druid cat shred everything.

Dave Baker wrote:
Scenarios actually being challenging, since there aren't a million (hyperbole? I haven't done the math) powerful combinations that break the CR system.

No, just a smaller number of well-known combinations that break the CR system, they're just more cookie-cutter. (I know I mentioned up above a scenario where 3 out of 5 characters had the same trait...)

I think a lot of the "difficulty" reported on this thread is just people cherry-picking the scenarios that were close calls due to circumstances or bad luck. (Which is why I've been reporting all of mine.)

Several posts online does not represent the community as a whole, nor even my local PFS community (to which I can speak). We have 5 weekly/bi-weekly venues with Core games at 2 and one dedicated to Core. I've yet to see a pounce kitty and only 1 barbarian.

Around here, Core, though sharing the same player base, draws a different crowd among them. Perhaps not in your area, but certainly around here.

Community & Digital Content Director

Removed a couple posts. Even if it's not intended, let's not stir up the edition warring pot, please.

Liberty's Edge 3/5

StFrancisss wrote:
Quote:

Core mode play, as far as I can tell, largely appeals to: 1) new consumers afraid of the weight of system mastery, 2) consumers who find system bloat unappealing, and 3) consumers who just want to replay for credit for whatever reasons they deem valid.

Right... All of which 5e arguably does better (mainly the first two. But 5e does open up new scenarios for people to play).

But again, my opinions are just being dismissed as "well that's just not your style of play."

Quote:
That other game is different, for different reasons. (regarding the comparison of 5e to Core)

Yes, and this other system solves the solutions Core set out to solve better.

Quote:
I think a lot of the "difficulty" reported on this thread is just people cherry-picking the scenarios that were close calls due to circumstances or bad luck.
And also because a lot of simple solutions to things are more difficult in Core. For example, Air Crystals are amazing and cheap. Or a spell like Monkey Fish (which lets you swim/climb) as a level 1 spell, compared to Spider Climb a second level spell. It's just easier to bypass certain parts of the scenario and make them a heck of a lot easier. But overall I agree with you, I don't think Core is vastly more difficult than Norm, but I've mostly played Season 0 in Core.

A couple of things that aren't being addressed in this discussion are:

1.) CORE is just an off-shoot of an existing organized play campaign. A more valid comparison would be to compare it to the 5E organized play campaign. Which takes me to my second point ...

2.) Setting. For me, Golarion >> Faerun. That's my personal preference, as I like the medium magic flavor (which CORE enhances) versus the high magic feel I've always gotten from any Faerun campaign.

Dark Archive 4/5

I loves me some core. I have an almost 6th level grapple moruid. It's awesome.

Dark Archive

You hold em still while I swing my hedge trimmer bane of plants and bandits.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne

Well, my fist two experiences with CORE, one as a player, one as a GM, didn't go as expected at all.

As a Player:

We played Scions of the Sky Key, Part 1: On Sharrowsmiths Trail. Our party consisted of:

Half-Orc Wizard (conjurer)
Half-Orc Falchion wielding Fighter
Half-Orc Rapier wielding Rogue
Half-Elf Cleric of Desna
Half-Elf Druid with a Velociraptor AC

I was a bit concerned as we were all fresh out of the box characters without a Wand of CLW between us and this was a Year 5 mod. But we had a balanced party and experienced players. As it was, only the final battle was really challenging, but even then, my wizard was the only one to go down and that was only to -1 (and thanks to Orc Ferocity, I stayed in the battle one more round).

As a GM:

I ran Silent Tide. The party consisted of:

Halfling Rogue with an 6 strength wielding a rapier
Human Bard with a whip
Human Fighter with a greatclub
Human Cleric of Abadar
Human Monk

Spoiler:
I was not concerned here. We had 5 players in an old mod designed for 4 CORE players and over half of them had one mod under their belt with the prerequisite Wand of CLW and decent equipment. First encounter was a little rough due to the setup as the main damage dealer (the fighter) was the only one who could deal with the strength challenge in this encounter and thus wasn't slicing things down. The next two encounters were fairly easy but the cleric tapped out most of his channels in the Cathedral. I did enjoy RPing the first appearance ever of Grandmaster Torch and the combat useless rogue was at least able to prove some worth in this encounter.
The final encounter, however, was something else. The guard dog nearly took the Monk down though he got wanded back up. At one point the cleric was a zero. The final fight took place on a staircase so that only a couple of people could get in the fight at any one time. After trying to get past the BBEG at the top of the stairs the fighter got dropped down and almost killed and withdrew so the cleric could wand him. This left the grappling monk and the Halfling rogue who was the only one to succeed in tumbling past him to engage the BBEG in melee. Unfortunately, the BBEG had Blur going, so no sneak attack for the rouge who hit the BBEG a total of 4 times for 5 damage. The monk had some initial success attempting to grapple the BBEG but he broke out of the pin and the monk switched to flurrying. Neither the monk nor the BBEG could hit each other (18 AC with Mage Armor and Blur on the BBEG and I couldn't roll higher than a 7 on the BBEGs rolls which didn't hit the monk even with height advantage). I lost track of how long the final encounter lasted somewhere after 12 rounds. But eventually the fighter got back into the battle and power attacked the BBEG into oblivion. The total number of wand charges used over the course of the adventure was in the teens.

So basically my first two experiences were completely the opposite of what I expected. Just goes to show you how much the group, party makeup and, perhaps, the GM can change things.


My second core game was Decline of Glory with Paladin, Ranger, Cleric, Rogue (me - Merisel), Druid. All of use were lvl 1. This one was almost a TPK when I played it normal mode last year, but that was mostly a result of bad luck which didn't repeat itself, the big challenge was finishing in the 4 hour limit. The paladin had Diehard so the fact he never dropped (and he frequently was often negative hp) helped immensely.

My third core game was the Penumbral Accords with a Human Paladin, Half-Elf Cleric (Pos Channel), Halfling Cleric (Neg Channel), Human Wizard (me - Ezren). This was tough as we had some no-shows and ended up with only 4 first level PCs. Our Paladin bit the dust on this one, mostly due to streaky DM rolling (couldn't even hit the wizard in one big fight, but pounded the high armored Paladin in the next big fight). He was the only melee fighter and had Diehard - so basically he didn't drop until he was plain dead. With the cleric already down and no one else going to melee range he took all the attacks. If he didn't have Diehard though it probably would have been a TPK, it bought the two of us still standing some time to get a few more damage points and get a lucky shot in at the BBG at the end. Must have hit him with at least four Acid Splashes (all I had left!) The heroic knight died to save our skins.

I had a paladin with 1 xp made up but played pre-gens as there was already a paladin in the party. Now with 3 xp under my belt I have to decide if I want to permanently stay paladin. I did not see any wizards the three games I played so I am looking at that also, but since it looks like the local area has just lost our paladin, not sure if he is creating a new one or something else this time. One thing worse than not having two melee fighters is not having one melee fighter. I will probably make up both at level 2 and choose one depending what shows up at the next game.

Core is great because I play with my 13 yo kid, I've already played most the low level adventures on normal mode and wouldn't be eligible play these older ones with him otherwise. The early season scenarios are good training grounds for new players and there 'usually' is some wiggle room for making beginner mistakes (unlike the newer season mods which are more unforgiving). He probably wouldn't be playing if it weren't for Core.

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