Blood Mage (Wizard)
Some say that the use of blood was how magic was first learned. There are some mages who have rediscovered the secrets of blood magic, and use it to fuel their spells. It is a path fraught with peril, but offers great power.
Constitution Dependent: The blood mage uses Constitution instead of Intelligence when determining the highest level of spells he can cast, his spell save DCs, number of spells known at 1st level, and bonus spells per day.
Blood Sacrifice (Su): Instead of normal material components, a blood mage uses his blood, or the blood of another sentient creature, as the material component for spell casting.
At first level, as a swift action, the blood mage may inflict an amount of bleed damage based on the level of spell he is trying to cast as a substitute for the material component cost (if any) of the spell. The amount of bleed damage is 1d3 for 0-level spells, 1d6 for 1-5th level spells, and 1d8 for 6-9th level spells. Valuable components worth more than 1 gp require an additional cost of 1 point of Strength damage, plus a further point of damage for every full 500 gp of the component's value (so a component worth 500–999 gp costs a total of 2 points, 1,000–1,500 costs 3, etc.). If the blood mage is immune to Strength damage, he cannot use blood sacrifice to create valuable material components.
If he suffers bleed damage from another source, he may use that for this ability. If the bleed damage dealt from another source is less than the amount needed for the level of spell he is trying to cast, he may not cast spells of that level that require material components. He may use it for lower level spells, however, as long as the amount of bleed is sufficient. If the damage is not healed, he may continue to use it each round for this purpose. Temporary Hit Points may not be used for this ability. If a spell does not have a material cost, then no payment of blood is necessary.
Alternatively, a blood mage may sacrifice an amount of Constitution to increase the level of a single spell by half of the amount sacrificed without taking up a higher level spell slot, or, to increase his caster level by twice the amount sacrificed for a single spell. This is in the form of ability damage, and may not be healed by any means (including wish, or miracle) except natural healing. If this would increase the spells level to a level higher than he can cast, the blood mage must make a caster level check in order to cast the spell.
Due to the vastly different nature of blood magic, the blood mage cannot use normal material components for his spells; he must use blood. A blood mage may never take the Eschew Materials feat.
The blood mage may use his Blood Sacrifice abilities on another sentient creature instead of himself. If the creature is unwilling, it must be rendered helpless before performing the Blood Sacrifice. Whether a creature is willing or unwilling, use of this ability on a sentient creature other than you is considered an evil act. This ability replaces Arcane Bond.
Cruoronomicon: A blood mage’s spell book is written in blood instead of ink. It functions in every way as a normal wizard’s spell book, except that he must use his blood sacrifice ability when paying to have spells copied from another wizard’s spell book or from scrolls.
Toughness: A blood mage gains Toughness as a bonus feat at 1st level. This ability replaces Scribe Scroll.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
The magic should still be Intelligence-based, but Constitution can still play a supporting role (maybe you can add your Constitution bonus to your Intelligence bonus and calculate bonus spells per day based on the result).
Also, if the other creature is willing (and not under duress or enchantment), using its blood shouldn't be Evil.
Using Constitution for spellcasting is kind of broken. The scarred witchdoctor was heavily criticized because it made an already non-MAD class even more non-MAD.
Blood Sacrifice basically boils down to:
1) An overly complicated version of the blood money spell that's actually quite crippling.
2) Disability to use normal material components
3) Take 2 Con damage to get a free Heighten spell (actually why didn't you just reference this metamagic feat?) or take Con damage and increase the CL of a spell by double the amount.
The math of #3 is actually quite broken. At 1st level, I can take 2 Constitution damage to cast a CL 5 burning hands for 5d4 damage. This isn't even much of a sacrifice because I can start the game with 20 Constitution as my casting ability.
Also, what the heck is the DC for this caster level check #3 mentions?
I agree unless blood mages are the retards og the wizardly World, and i dont think they should be, they should still use int for casting. Allowing con bonus to give a extra set of bonus spells by paying 1 HP pr Spell( pehaps some one elses HP), con bonus to DC by paying Spell level in con damage(pehaps some one elses con here) seem like thematic options.
Blood sacrifice looks like a Spell that already is very problematic.
And the The bleed damage? How Many rounds do you need to bleed for it to work? Or is it normal damage with the bleed being flavor text?
I think i would let blood magic be a feat Line so it would be somthing that all Spell casters could use if they wanted to pay the Price.
Make a Blood Magic arcane school. Or, drop the arcane school altogether and use a Con-based point pool similar to Grit.
There is nothing wrong with casting from hit points.
You will notice I didn't say they had to be your hit points.
You could do something like "at first level, you can use your HP to attach metamagic to spells/cast spells you haven't prepared; at fifth level, you can use a willing sentient creature's HP; at tenth level, you can use an unwilling sentient creature's HP, they make a Fortitude save (and you find out just why blood mages are so feared.)"
Metamagic costs could be 2 HP/boosted level.
Casting a spell you haven't prepared could be 1 HP/spell level (and you can't use blood magic to cast a cantrip) and it takes longer to cast.
Using someone else's blood could double the HP costs.
Just spitballin' stuff.
Thank you, everyone for your responses. I would like to explain my thought process for this.
My view of blood mages is that blood magic should be more powerful than regular magic, but at a cost. My goal was to make the blood mage more powerful than a regular wizard, but you had to risk death and in game RP consequences for that power. Also, I am a big fan of Dragon Age. Okay, that's out of the way.
It seems the general consensus is that INT should remain the main casting stat. I can see the logic in this. My thinking was that because you're using blood to power your spells, the "stronger" your blood was, the more spells you could cast. Also, because a character would be regularly damaging themselves to cast spells, I wanted to give them a HP buffer. By keeping INT as the main casting stat, it makes the choice to take this archetype harder. Remember, keeping this balanced against the regular wizard was not my goal, it was creating an attractive choice that hid a sinister drawback that would force players to balance it themselves once they realized how easy it was to kill their characters. The theme was more important to me than mechanical balance. All that being said, I do see the logic in keeping INT as the main stat.
@Cyrad: the caster level check is the same check you would make if you were trying to cast a higher level scroll. If a spell exceeds your normal caster level, you have to make a caster level check in order to cast it. Unless I am miss-remembering that rule.
As to the Heighten Spell effect, it didn't occur to me to reference the feat. I completely forgot about it. That's a easy change.
And yes, I was basing much of blood sacrifice mechanically off of blood money. But I wanted to take it further. If I change the main stat back to INT, I can change the STR damage to additional CON damage for expensive materials. What would you suggest to make it less complicated? I tried to head off corner cases with the language I used for the ability.
@Cap. Darling: It is bleed damage, in that you continue to take that damage each round until it is healed. And like bleed damage, you always take the worse type. So if you inflicted 1d3 bleed, but then wanted to cast a higher level spell, you would need to inflict a higher amount of bleed. The amount of damage you take happens immediately. So, as soon as you inflict the damage, you may cast the spell of that level. I am also changing the higher level spells to a d12, instead of a d8.
I didn't go with a feat chain because I wanted it to be more of an investment. I also think the level of complexity fits better as an archetype. If this is something that others would want to play, I would consider making an archetype for a sorcerer as well. Maybe even making it a universal archetype for any arcane class. That would be a first. But then it might as well be a prestige class. I don't know.
@Ciaran Barnes: If i went with the point pool, I might as well play Paizo's bloatmage. I wanted to separate my idea from that both mechanically and thematically.
@Snorb: By allowing the character to use the blood of others from level 1 creates in game RP situations that could be problematic for the player. Also remember, when you take CON damage, your HP total lowers.
Thank you again for your input. Please, more would be most welcome. I will post an updated version soon.
Here is an updated version.
Blood Mage (Wizard)
Some say that the use of blood was how magic was first learned. There are some mages who have rediscovered the secrets of blood magic, and use it to fuel their spells. It is a path fraught with peril, but offers great power.
Blood Sacrifice (Su): Instead of normal material components, a blood mage uses his blood, or the blood of another sentient creature, as the material component for spell casting.
At first level, as a swift action, the blood mage may inflict an amount of bleed damage equal to the level of spell he is trying to cast as a substitute for the material component cost (if any) of the spell. 0 Level spells with material components cost 1 point of bleed. Valuable components worth more than 1 gp require an additional cost of 1 point of Constitution damage, plus a further point of damage for every full 500 gp of the component's value (so a component worth 500–999 gp costs a total of 2 points, 1,000–1,500 costs 3, etc.). If he suffers bleed damage from another source, he may use that damage for this ability. If the bleed damage dealt from another source is less than the amount needed for the level of spell he is trying to cast, he may not cast spells of that level that require material components.
If the bleed damage used for blood sacrifice is not healed, he may continue to use it each round. Temporary Hit Points may not be used for this ability.
Additionally, a blood mage may gain the benefits of the Heighten Spell feat by inflicting an amount of Constitution damage equal to the level of the spell he wishes to cast, without taking up a higher level spell slot. He may also inflict an amount of Constitution damage to increase his caster level by twice the amount sacrificed for a single spell. If this would increase the spells level to a level higher than he can cast, the blood mage must make a caster level check in order to cast the spell. These two effects may be used together.
Due to the vastly different nature of blood magic, the blood mage cannot use normal material components for his spells; he must use blood. A blood mage may never take the Eschew Materials feat.
The blood mage may use his Blood Sacrifice abilities on another sentient creature instead of himself. If the creature is unwilling, it must be rendered helpless before performing the Blood Sacrifice. Whether a creature is willing or unwilling, use of this ability on a sentient creature other than you is considered an evil act.
All Constitution sacrificed with this ability may not be healed by any means (including wish, or miracle) except natural healing. If the blood mage is immune to Constitution damage, or does not have blood, he cannot use blood sacrifice on himself, he must use another creature to gain its effects. This ability replaces Arcane Bond.
Cruoronomicon: A blood mage’s spell book is written in blood instead of ink. It functions in every way as a normal wizard’s spell book, except that he must use his blood sacrifice ability when paying to have spells copied from another wizard’s spell book or from scrolls.
Toughness: A blood mage gains Toughness as a bonus feat at 1st level. This ability replaces Scribe Scroll.
Yes, it's quite complicated. This new version also does not address my concerns about the broken math of the CL increase.
Cyrad wrote: Yes, it's quite complicated. This new version also does not address my concerns about the broken math of the CL increase. Ah, I see what you're saying. Burning hands does not have a material cost, but I could still take Con damage to max it out.
That is a legitimate concern. I'll have to take some time to think it out, but if you have a suggestion for it that doesn't sacrifice the theme, by all means, let me know. I'll see what I can come up with.
Okay, how about this?
"If this would increase the spells level to a level higher than he can cast, the blood mage must make a caster level check using his base caster level against a DC = 15 + the adjusted caster level in order to cast the spell."
That would make your example a DC 20 caster level check. At level 1, you only get a +1 to your d20 roll to meet that DC. Still possible, but if you fail, you lose the spell and you have to rest for a few days to get that spent Con back.
If it were me, I'd make it a transmutation subschool with the following abilities:
1) Wizard can take 1 point of Con damage for +1 CL or +1 to the DC of a spell. Cannot be done more than once per spell. Replaces physical enhancement.
2) Gain the benefits of blood money but with half the effectiveness. Can use 3 + Intelligence mod per day. Replaces telekinetic fist.
You can then make up a new ability for the 3rd.
Cyrad wrote: If it were me, I'd make it a transmutation subschool with the following abilities:
1) Wizard can take 1 point of Con damage for +1 CL or +1 to the DC of a spell. Cannot be done more than once per spell. Replaces physical enhancement.
2) Gain the benefits of blood money but with half the effectiveness. Can use 3 + Intelligence mod per day. Replaces telekinetic fist.
You can then make up a new ability for the 3rd.
Well, that makes it considerably weaker than what I'm trying to do. Let me ask this; as is, with the most recent change, is this an archetype that says "why would't I take it"? Because my goal is to make something that entices the player with Power (yes, capitol P), but they have to make some tough choices about when to access their power. Remember, I'm not trying to make it balanced against a regular wizard or the other classes.
That being said, I'm also not trying to make something that completely breaks the game. I feel that with the more powerful parts of the archetype costing points of Con, and the regular part costing HP, it creates a situation where the PLAYER becomes addicted to power and begins to use other beings for it in order to keep himself alive. That in turn takes the character down the evil path and the GM will have to respond in turn. I think that makes for some fantastic roleplay opportunities. The point being that the player is the one who made the choice to go down the evil path.
Preventing the character from dominating the game at low levels is a concern, but the CL check should help alleviate that.
So back to my question, is this something that is a no brainer to take? Or do the mechanics of the game make what I am trying to do unfeasible? And if no, then what do I need to do to fine tune it to achieve my goal?
Thank you again for your responses.
You could also make it a Arcanist archtype, mix the blood system with there arcane resevoir and make unique exploits. I think that would be my take. And them most likely also make some spells and feats that would give others a chance to dabble in blood magic.
Edit: imagine if you could fill up the resevoir with con stolen from others:)
Cap. Darling wrote: You could also make it a Arcanist archtype, mix the blood system with there arcane resevoir and make unique exploits. I think that would be my take. And them most likely also make some spells and feats that would give others a chance to dabble in blood magic.
Edit: imagine if you could fill up the resevoir with con stolen from others:)
I've actually never looked at the arcanist. When the ACG came out I was only interested in the slayer. :)
Still, if I can get this to work the way I want, I might do some archetypes for other arcane classes. Hmm, I can only imagine what something like this would do to a bloodrager.
I really like this concept and approach. In fact, I hope you don't mind, I used your work here and adapted it to create a Half-Orc witch archetype called the Blood Witch.
Elghinn Lightbringer wrote: I really like this concept and approach. In fact, I hope you don't mind, I used your work here and adapted it to create a Half-Orc witch archetype called the Blood Witch. Not at all. I take it as a complement. When I first made this, I had hoped that I could hold onto it in case RPG Superstar ever did another archetype round, but I realized that they would never go for what I wanted to do with it. My idea of how blood magic should work is far too powerful for it to ever make it into the game.
I'm going to attempt to resurrect my thread here and post an updated version of my blood mage archetype for the wizard.
Blood Mage (Wizard)
Blood magic is one of the oldest forms of magic, and is considered taboo in most civilized lands. It is a path fraught with peril, but offers great power.
Blood Sacrifice (Su): Instead of normal material components, a blood mage uses his blood, or the blood of another sentient creature, as the material component for spell casting.
At first level, as a swift action, the blood mage may inflict an amount of bleed damage equal to the level of spell he is trying to cast as a substitute for the material component cost (if any) of the spell. 0 Level spells with material components cost 1 point of bleed. Valuable components worth more than 1 gp require an additional cost of 1 point of Constitution damage, plus a further point of damage for every full 500 gp of the component's value (so a component worth 500–999 gp costs a total of 2 points, 1,000–1,500 costs 3, etc). If the blood mage suffers bleed damage from another source, he may use that for this ability (though the damage must equal the level of spell he wants to cast). Temporary Hit Points may not be used for this ability. A blood mage may never take the Eschew Materials feat.
Additionally, as a free action, a blood mage may spontaneously apply any metamagic feat he possesses to a single spell by inflicting an amount of Constitution damage equal to the adjusted level of the spell without taking up a higher level spell slot. If this would increase the spells’ level to a level higher than he can cast, the blood mage must make a caster level check against a DC equal to 15 + the adjusted spell level in order to cast the spell. Alternatively, the blood mage may inflict an amount of Constitution damage to increase his caster level by the amount sacrificed for one round/ level. These two effects may be used together. (Ex. - A 3rd level blood mage sacrifices 4 points of Constitution to increase a 2nd level spell to 4th level. This makes his caster level check a DC 19. He then also sacrifices an additional 2 points of Constitution to increase his effective caster level by two, giving him a new caster level of 5 for three rounds.)
The blood mage may use his Blood Sacrifice abilities on another sentient creature instead of himself. If the creature is unwilling, it must be rendered helpless before performing the Blood Sacrifice. Whether a creature is willing or unwilling, using this ability on a sentient creature other than you is considered an evil act.
Any Constitution sacrificed with this ability may not be healed by any means (including wish, limited wish, or miracle) except natural healing. If the blood mage is immune to Constitution damage, or does not have blood, he cannot use blood sacrifice on himself, he must use another creature to gain its effects. This ability replaces Arcane Bond.
Cruoronomicon: A blood mage’s spell book is written in blood instead of ink. It functions in every way as a normal wizard’s spell book, except that he must use his blood sacrifice ability when paying to have spells copied from another wizard’s spell book or from scrolls.
Toughness: A blood mage gains Toughness as a bonus feat at 1st level. This ability replaces Scribe Scroll.
Please let me know what you guys think of this, and any constructive criticism would be much appreciated!
Also, I know that this doesn't eliminate the issue of the burning hands problem from previous posts, but it does mitigate it somewhat. I decided not to eliminate it entirely because at 1st level, you only have at most four 1st level spells you can cast. While you could memorize four burning hands, that leaves you pretty useless beyond doing damage. And to max out all four of them would cost 16 points of con. Even if you started with 20 con (leaving your Int at a 13, at most, assuming a 20 point buy), that would leave you pretty vulnerable.
Anyway, please let me know what you think!
Personally, I'd treat the Cruornomicon ability to essentially allow the Blood Mage to use his Blood Sacrifice ability to enhance spells to also apply to scrolls he has written or possesses, paying the damage and such as normal, and allowing his scrolls to be stored that way (though only the benefits of the enhanced spell can be done for him).
I'd consider separating the Blood Sacrifice ability into two different ones, since it seems cluttered.
Although a Blood Mage is known for sacrificing his own life force for his magic, it shouldn't the de facto thing he uses, and something that's only optional, especially in the lower levels.
A problem with adjusting Metamagic abilities for a prepared spellcaster is that they already scribed their abilities. The Metamagic empowering ability needs to apply to spells they already scribed that don't currently have them.
I'd ditch Toughness being a bonus feat and I'd stick with the Scribe Scroll feat.
Another clause I'd throw in there is stuff similar to the Alchemist's ability to use Bombs/Extracts/Mutagens for spells, in that he could simply steal the blood of dead creatures and use that to fulfill his material components, never ever needing to damage himself: in other words, make the spell enhancements require fresh blood, probably in the same round as casting the spell.
Here are some examples of what I mean:
Blood Sacrifice: Instead of normal material components, a blood mage may use his blood, or the blood of another sentient creature, instead of the required material component for his spellcasting. At first level, as a free action as part of casting a spell, the blood mage may inflict an amount of bleed damage equal to the level of spell he is trying to cast as a substitute for the material component cost (if any) of the spell.
Valuable components worth more than 1 gp require an additional cost of 1 point of damage, plus a further point of damage for every full 500 gp of the component's value (a component worth 500–999 gp deals a total of 2 bleed damage, 1,000–1,500 deals 3 bleed damage, etc.), to a maximum of 5,000 gp. This ability cannot be used to fulfill the material component of another spellcaster's spells. If the blood mage is currently suffering bleed damage from another source, he need not deal further damage to himself to provide the valuable material component cost (though the damage must equal the level of spell he wants to cast, and the blood mage may increase the bleed damage to meet the gp cost needed for the material component). This bleed damage must have occurred within 1 minute of starting to cast the spell (and the blood mage has not been healed) or the ability cannot be used. Temporary Hit Points may not be used for this ability.
Blood Empowerment: A blood mage may apply a metamagic feat he possesses to a single spell he casts by inflicting an amount of Constitution damage equal to the adjusted level of the spell without requiring a higher level spell slot. If this would increase the spells’ level to a level higher than he can cast, the blood mage must make a caster level check against a DC equal to 10 + the adjusted spell level in order to cast the spell. For example, a 3rd level blood mage sacrifices 4 points of Constitution to increase a 2nd level spell to 4th level. This makes his caster level check a DC 14.
Alternatively, the blood mage may inflict an amount of Constitution damage to increase his caster level by the amount sacrificed for one round. These two effects may be used together.
Any Constitution sacrificed with this ability may not be healed by any means (including wish, limited wish, or miracle) except natural healing. If the blood mage is immune to Constitution damage, or does not have blood, he cannot use blood sacrifice on himself, he must use another creature to gain its effects. This ability replaces Arcane Bond.
Cruornomiconia: A blood mage typically writes his spellbook with blood instead of ink, and it functions in every way as a normal wizard’s spell book, except that he must take 1 point of Constitution damage whenever he wishes to learn a spell or scribe a scroll. In addition, he may use his Blood Empowerment ability to enhance scrolls in his possession just as if they were his own spells. Doing so requires that they make the caster level check and pay the constitution damage in advance. Once so altered, it cannot be changed back, and only a blood mage can properly use the scroll. If anyone other than a blood mage attempts to use the scroll, they must succeed a use magic device check whose DC is equal to 20 + the blood mage's level (at the time of enhancing the scroll) + the spell level or a mishap occurs.
Darksol the Painbringer wrote: Personally, I'd treat the Cruornomicon ability to essentially allow the Blood Mage to use his Blood Sacrifice ability to enhance spells to also apply to scrolls he has written or possesses, paying the damage and such as normal, and allowing his scrolls to be stored that way (though only the benefits of the enhanced spell can be done for him).
I'd consider separating the Blood Sacrifice ability into two different ones, since it seems cluttered.
Although a Blood Mage is known for sacrificing his own life force for his magic, it shouldn't the de facto thing he uses, and something that's only optional, especially in the lower levels.
A problem with adjusting Metamagic abilities for a prepared spellcaster is that they already scribed their abilities. The Metamagic empowering ability needs to apply to spells they already scribed that don't currently have them.
I'd ditch Toughness being a bonus feat and I'd stick with the Scribe Scroll feat.
Another clause I'd throw in there is stuff similar to the Alchemist's ability to use Bombs/Extracts/Mutagens for spells, in that he could simply steal the blood of dead creatures and use that to fulfill his material components, never ever needing to damage himself: in other words, make the spell enhancements require fresh blood, probably in the same round as casting the spell.
Here are some examples of what I mean:
Blood Sacrifice: Instead of normal material components, a blood mage may use his blood, or the blood of another sentient creature, instead of the required material component for his spellcasting. At first level, as a free action as part of casting a spell, the blood mage may inflict an amount of bleed damage equal to the level of spell he is trying to cast as a substitute for the material component cost (if any) of the spell.
Valuable components worth more than 1 gp require an additional cost of 1 point of damage, plus a further point of damage for every full 500 gp of the component's value (a component worth 500–999 gp deals a...
Darksol, thank you for your input. Sorry for not responding sooner, but I was laid off from my job this week, so Ive been busy with that.
I like the idea of using the spellbook stuff to enhance scrolls and what have you, so I'm going to incorporate that into it.
I didn't seperate the two uses of Blood Sacrifice because it's replacing one ability from the core wizard. If I made it two separate abilities, that would be breaking the rules for archetypes (even though I'm probably breaking them anyway due to power level).
I see the reason for not making the blood sacrifice mandatory, but if I allow the choice not to use blood, then by taking the eschew materials feat you've undercut the risk of the archetype. For the power gained, there needs to be a cost. I could make an exception for the feat, saying that it can only be used for normal components, but this archetype is complicated enough as it is.
I don't see a problem with the metamagic portion, even if they have already memorized a spell with a MM feat for the day, they can still apply another one to it spontaneously with Blood Sacrifice. Same as for a spell without a MM feat on it. Again, they're paying a cost for power.
I went with toughness to help mitigate some of the HP damage you would be taking at low levels. This is kind of an offset for making the blood use mandatory.
If a clever player decides to harvest the blood of slain opponents to fuel his magic, especially at low levels, I see no reason not to allow it. But consider the difficulty of doing so in combat (what I need to add here is to say that it provokes if used on another creature other than yourself). Also consider that a dead creature has a 0 Con score, so the only thing he could power is inexpensive spells. At higher levels, this just becomes impractical to do.
Anyway, thank you again for your input, I will be incorporating some of it. If you can point out any mistakes I made or false assumptions, please do not hesitate.
*EDIT* I don't know why the reply cut off some of your text. That's weird.
Yeah, not having a job sucks. Though in my minor experience, having a job that sucks can be worse. Anyway...
I only suggested the separation because the subjects are cluttered, and many would get confused with the content of the ability, especially when you essentially have it written as a two-part subject. There are several archetypes that replace multiple abilities for a single one, and vice-versa. This can be no different.
So, comparing the class feature to Eschew Materials:
Eschew Materials wrote: You can cast any spell with a material component costing 1 gp or less without needing that component. The casting of the spell still provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. If the spell requires a material component that costs more than 1 gp, you must have the material component on hand to cast the spell, as normal. You're either spending a feat (that 1 level of Sorcerer gets for free, by the way), or you're exchanging the class feature (and a very powerful one at that). Most players would usually take the feat over the class feature (especially for negligible-costing material spells), especially in a min-max scenario, since, outside of certain niche builds, Casters aren't that feat intensive.
This is a penalty more than a boost. The only boon is the ability to sacrifice health (that ticks each round, by the way, until healed) to provide material components; and not temporary hit points either. This is also balanced by putting a capacity as to how much gold can be done at any given time, as well as limiting it to spells that only the Wizard can cast. It's not that powerful of a feature, and it can certainly be paired with another feature (Blood Empowerment) to qualify for the substitution, especially when both of these features are gained at the same level (1st) as the feature they're replacing (Arcane Bond, also 1st level).
Scribe Scroll is going to be very useful since they can prepare scrolls (especially ones like Stoneskin) that can be enhanced with the Wizard's metamagics and other goodies. A few hit points to start (and then one every level) sort of screws the player over; and, if Constitution will be his main casting stat (like it was in your earlier renditions), there's no reason to give him more hit points when he'll be having the same health as a given Fighter (and then some). Hell, this would be crazy good to synergize into Eldritch Knight if you build it right.
The problem with adding that is that you're still having to spend the slot required for the adjusted spell in order to cast it. So if you can only cast 4th level spells, you can't spontaneously add an Empower Metamagic to a Fireball spell unless you can manage to screen it back down to a level that you can cast (which takes traits and such to do), which, if the intent of the ability is to be able to add a Metamagic you know to your spell without increasing the level, it's missing language that permits you to do so.
Of course, that's only if that is what the intent is.
Okay, how does this look?
Blood Sacrifice (Su): Instead of normal material components, a blood mage uses his blood, or the blood of another sentient creature, as the material component for spell casting.
At 1st level, as part of the casting of the spell, the blood mage inflicts an amount of bleed damage equal to the level of spell he is trying to cast as a substitute for the material component cost (if any) of the spell. 0 Level spells with material components cost 1 point of bleed. Valuable components worth more than 1 gp require an additional cost of 1 point of Constitution damage, plus a further point of damage for every full 500 gp of the component's value (so a component worth 500–999 gp costs a total of 2 points, 1,000–1,500 costs 3, etc). If the blood mage suffers bleed damage from another source, he may use that for this ability (though the damage must equal the level of spell he wants to cast). Temporary Hit Points may not be used for this ability. A blood mage may never take the Eschew Materials feat.
At 3rd level, as a swift action, the blood mage may inflict an amount of Constitution damage to increase his caster level by the amount sacrificed for one round/ level.
At 7th level, as a free action, the blood mage may spontaneously apply any metamagic feat he possesses to a single spell he has prepared, by inflicting an amount of Constitution damage equal to the adjusted level of the spell, without taking up a higher level spell slot. He may use this with Heighten Spell to increase the spells’ level to a level higher than he can cast, though he must make a caster level check against a DC equal to 15 + the adjusted spell level in order to cast the spell.
The 3rd and 7th level effects may be used together. (Ex. - A 7th level blood mage sacrifices 2 points of Constitution to increase his effective caster level by two, giving him a new caster level of 9 for seven rounds. He then also sacrifices 5 points of Constitution to use Heighten Spell to increase a 4th level spell to 5th level. He then makes a caster level check at a DC 20.)
The blood mage may use his Blood Sacrifice abilities on another sentient creature instead of himself. If the creature is unwilling, it must be rendered helpless before performing the Blood Sacrifice. Whether a creature is willing or unwilling, using this ability on a sentient creature other than you is considered an evil act.
Any Constitution sacrificed with this ability may not be healed by any means (including, but not limited to, wish, limited wish, or miracle) except natural healing. If the blood mage is immune to Constitution damage, or does not have blood, he cannot use blood sacrifice on himself, he must use another creature to gain its effects. This ability replaces Arcane Bond.
Cruornomica: A blood mage writes his spellbook and scrolls in blood instead of ink. They function in every way as normal spellbooks and scrolls, except that he must use his blood sacrifice ability to pay any associated material and gold piece costs when scribing scrolls, or copying spells from another wizard’s spellbook or scrolls into his own.
In addition, only a blood mage can properly use a scroll scribed in this way. If anyone other than a blood mage attempts to use the scroll, they must succeed a use magic device check whose DC is equal to 20 + the blood mage's level (at the time of scribing the scroll) + the spell level or a mishap occurs.
I decided to put levels on the different parts of blood sacrifice, mimicking the various levels that familiars get their new abilities at. I think this solves the burning hands problem, and makes it cleaner overall.
Can you point me to the part of the OGC that talks about enhancing scrolls? I couldn't find it. I don't mind including it, but I want to be sure that that is something that the rules allow for normally. Otherwise, that's adding a free ability without replacing an old one.
I'm also not sure what your saying about eschew materials. Could you provide some examples for me to better understand your point? Sometimes I can be really dense.
Thank you again for the input.
The point regarding Eschew Materials (as a feat) is that compared to the class feature that the Blood Mage gets, it doesn't really matter if the character can or cannot take it; for the amount of investment needed for each subject, they're about equal in level. If a character really wants to spend a feat and the class feature, it shouldn't really be condemned by the class feature to do so, especially since the feat doesn't really overshadow the class feature; if anything, I'd prefer that to be the bonus feat at 1st instead of Toughness. In comparison, it's actually the other way around, since I can use the class feature to cast Stoneskin for free and essentially give me temporary hitpoints for when I am attacked, whereas I cannot do that with Eschew Materials.
The Blood Sacrifice ability does look a lot clearer, though again, there are some things that can be cleared up. I'd put the "use together" clause at the end of the 7th level paragraph, saying "This ability may be used in addition to the ability gained at 3rd level."
I would also suggest you put a gold cap and self-spell limit on the feature, so as to further keep it from imbalancing the later levels. The Blood Mage could use his Blood Sacrifice ability to essentially negate the cost needed for a Resurrection/True Resurrection spell, or even a Wish spell, some things which I can assure you are not intended by your ability.
Outside of Infernal Healing, there's no way for the Blood Mage to really self-sustain his bleeding incapabilities, so in order for a Blood Mage to ever thrive, he has to do evil acts (the casting of Infernal Healing). Other effects that Wizards get which allow healing are almost always Evil-based spells; I'd consider making this having an Any-Evil alignment requirement.
As for the Scribe Scroll stuff, you can scribe a Metamagicked spell into a scroll, but once it's scribed, you can't technically change it; having the Blood Mage able to spontaneously change the scroll to have Metamagic abilities apply to it at the cost given with his class feature stuff would certainly be a great and unique feature for the Blood Mage, one that he needs and can utilize during downtime; this is balanced by the factor that he has to sacrifice life force in order to learn (or scribe) his own spells.
Darksol the Painbringer wrote: The point regarding Eschew Materials (as a feat) is that compared to the class feature that the Blood Mage gets, it doesn't really matter if the character can or cannot take it; for the amount of investment needed for each subject, they're about equal in level. If a character really wants to spend a feat and the class feature, it shouldn't really be condemned by the class feature to do so, especially since the feat doesn't really overshadow the class feature; if anything, I'd prefer that to be the bonus feat at 1st instead of Toughness. In comparison, it's actually the other way around, since I can use the class feature to cast Stoneskin for free and essentially give me temporary hitpoints for when I am attacked, whereas I cannot do that with Eschew Materials.
The Blood Sacrifice ability does look a lot clearer, though again, there are some things that can be cleared up. I'd put the "use together" clause at the end of the 7th level paragraph, saying "This ability may be used in addition to the ability gained at 3rd level."
I would also suggest you put a gold cap and self-spell limit on the feature, so as to further keep it from imbalancing the later levels. The Blood Mage could use his Blood Sacrifice ability to essentially negate the cost needed for a Resurrection/True Resurrection spell, or even a Wish spell, some things which I can assure you are not intended by your ability.
Outside of Infernal Healing, there's no way for the Blood Mage to really self-sustain his bleeding incapabilities, so in order for a Blood Mage to ever thrive, he has to do evil acts (the casting of Infernal Healing). Other effects that Wizards get which allow healing are almost always Evil-based spells; I'd consider making this having an Any-Evil alignment requirement.
As for the Scribe Scroll stuff, you can scribe a Metamagicked spell into a scroll, but once it's scribed, you can't technically change it; having the Blood Mage able to spontaneously change the scroll to have Metamagic abilities apply to...
In regards to the healing, what about giving the Heal skill as a class skill? If a person is constantly cutting themselves to fuel their power, it would make sense that they would learn how to bandage themselves up. Or would that add to much to the archetype? I read in the RPG Superstar threads that not all skills are equal in terms of "power". For example: the Perception skill is far more useful than the Appraise skill. Giving Perception to replace Appraise would go against the archetype rules of equal trades. So would giving the Heal skill without replacing anything be too much? Maybe I could replace the Appraise skill?
Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
I think this would work better with a point system like psionics uses.
It's not an unfair exchange, and can make sense. Wizards would probably have Appraise as a class skill to determine the value of expensive spell components, which the Blood Mage can (for the most part) negate. I don't personally see a problem with it.
Darksol the Painbringer wrote: The point regarding Eschew Materials (as a feat) is that compared to the class feature that the Blood Mage gets, it doesn't really matter if the character can or cannot take it; for the amount of investment needed for each subject, they're about equal in level. If a character really wants to spend a feat and the class feature, it shouldn't really be condemned by the class feature to do so, especially since the feat doesn't really overshadow the class feature; if anything, I'd prefer that to be the bonus feat at 1st instead of Toughness. In comparison, it's actually the other way around, since I can use the class feature to cast Stoneskin for free and essentially give me temporary hitpoints for when I am attacked, whereas I cannot do that with Eschew Materials. I'm keeping scribe scroll as the bonus feat (though I may change it back to toughness pending playtesting), and I will allow the use of eschew materials. Since I want the use of blood magic to be taboo, regardless of how it is used, the character would need to be able to hide the fact that he is a blood mage.
Darksol the Painbringer wrote: The Blood Sacrifice ability does look a lot clearer, though again, there are some things that can be cleared up. I'd put the "use together" clause at the end of the 7th level paragraph, saying "This ability may be used in addition to the ability gained at 3rd level." Actually, with the separation of those aspects of blood sacrifice by level, I don't think that clause is necessary any more. The separation implies that you can activate both at the same time when you have access to them.
Darksol the Painbringer wrote: I would also suggest you put a gold cap and self-spell limit on the feature, so as to further keep it from imbalancing the later levels. The Blood Mage could use his Blood Sacrifice ability to essentially negate the cost needed for a Resurrection/True Resurrection spell, or even a Wish spell, some things which I can assure you are not intended by your ability. Well, Resurrection/True Resurrection are not on the wizard spell list, but wish has a material component cost of 25000. That would be 51 points of Con per casting. Somehow, I don't think that will be an issue.
Darksol the Painbringer wrote: Outside of Infernal Healing, there's no way for the Blood Mage to really self-sustain his bleeding incapabilities, so in order for a Blood Mage to ever thrive, he has to do evil acts (the casting of Infernal Healing). Other effects that Wizards get which allow healing are almost always Evil-based spells; I'd consider making this having an Any-Evil alignment requirement. As in that last post, I replaced Appraise with Heal. This will allow the blood mage to stop the bleeding on his own, and in a pinch, heal his HP damgage. I'm not forcing an alignment restriction. That goes against how I see blood magic. Blood magic in and of itself is not evil. Taking the life force from another sentient creature, however willing, to fuel your own power is. Now, GM's can house rule however they want in regard to that. In fact, if this were for a modern day game, that has Christianity in it, then I would absolutely say that blood magic is evil, regardless of how it is used.
Darksol the Painbringer wrote: As for the Scribe Scroll stuff, you can scribe a Metamagicked spell into a scroll, but once it's scribed, you can't technically change it; having the Blood Mage able to spontaneously change the scroll to have Metamagic abilities apply to it at the cost given with his class feature stuff would certainly be a great and unique feature for the Blood Mage, one that he needs and can utilize during downtime; this is balanced by the factor that he has to sacrifice life force in order to learn (or scribe) his own spells. I'll keep this in mind for playtesting, but as of right now, I'm not including it. I think this archetype is complicated enough as it is.
Thank you again for your input! I really appreciate your time and opinion.
Here is the most updated version of the archetype.
Blood Mage (Wizard)
Blood magic is one of the oldest forms of magic, and is considered taboo in most civilized lands. It is a path fraught with peril, but offers great power.
Class Skills: Fly, Heal, Knowledge (all), Linguistics, Spellcraft.
Blood Sacrifice (Su): Instead of normal material components, a blood mage uses his blood, or the blood of another sentient creature, as the material component for spell casting.
At 1st level, as part of the casting of the spell, the blood mage may inflict an amount of bleed damage equal to the level of spell he is trying to cast as a substitute for the material component cost (if any) of the spell. 0 Level spells with material components cost 1 point of bleed. Valuable components worth more than 1 gp require an additional cost of 1 point of Constitution damage, plus a further point of damage for every full 500 gp of the component's value (so a component worth 500–999 gp costs a total of 2 points, 1,000–1,500 costs 3, etc). If the blood mage suffers bleed damage from another source, he may use that for this ability (though the damage must equal the level of spell he wants to cast). Temporary Hit Points may not be used for this ability.
At 3rd level, as a swift action, the blood mage may inflict an amount of Constitution damage to increase his caster level by the amount sacrificed for one round/ level.
At 7th level, as a free action, the blood mage may spontaneously apply any metamagic feat he possesses to a single spell he has prepared, by inflicting an amount of Constitution damage equal to the adjusted level of the spell, without taking up a higher level spell slot. If this would normally increase the spells’ level to a level higher than he can cast, the blood mage must make a caster level check against a DC equal to 10 + double the spell’s adjusted level in order to cast the spell.
The blood mage may use his Blood Sacrifice abilities on an adjacent sentient creature instead of himself. If the creature is unwilling, it must be rendered helpless before performing the Blood Sacrifice. Whether a creature is willing or unwilling, using this ability on a sentient creature other than you is considered an evil act.
Any Constitution sacrificed with this ability may not be healed by any means (including, but not limited to, wish, limited wish, or miracle) except natural healing. If the blood mage is immune to Constitution damage, or does not have blood, he cannot use blood sacrifice on himself, he must use another creature to gain its effects. This ability replaces Arcane Bond.
Cruornomica: A blood mage writes his spellbook and scrolls in blood instead of ink. They function in every way as normal spellbooks and scrolls, except that he must use his blood sacrifice ability to pay any associated material and gold piece costs when scribing scrolls, or copying spells from another wizard’s spellbook or scrolls into his own.
In addition, only a blood mage can properly use a scroll scribed in this way. If anyone other than a blood mage attempts to use the scroll, they must succeed a use magic device check whose DC is equal to 20 + the blood mage's level (at the time of scribing the scroll) + the spell level or a mishap occurs.
Bandw2 wrote: I think this would work better with a point system like psionics uses. Certainly something to consider, but the Bloatmage prestige class already does that and I wanted to distinguish my work from that. I also have a hard time meshing a point system with how I see blood magic working in my mind. To me it just says "I'm a game mechanic!" a little to loudly for me.
Just doing a quick bump for this, to ask if anyone has any more input.
*Casts animate dead*
OK, Let's see what you guys think of the latest version of my Blood Mage archetype. I added a lot of stuff to it, probably breaking the game over it's knee in the process. I appreciate any and all constructive criticism!
Blood Mage (Wizard)
Blood magic is one of the oldest forms of magic, and is considered taboo in most civilized lands. It is a path fraught with peril, but offers great power.
Class Skills: Craft (Int), Fly (Dex), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Blood Sacrifice (Su): Instead of normal material components, a blood mage uses his blood, or the blood of another sentient creature, as the material component for spell casting.
At 1st level, as part of the casting of the spell, the blood mage may inflict an amount of bleed damage equal to the level of spell he is trying to cast as a substitute for the material component cost (if any) of the spell (minimum 1). Valuable components cost 1 additional point of bleed per 100 gp in worth.
In addition, when preparing spells for the day, the blood mage may gain additional spell slots of levels he can cast by sacrificing an amount of Hit Points, and treating his Intelligence score as being higher by the amount sacrificed for the purpose of determining extra spell slots. These Hit Points may not be healed by any means until these extra spells are cast, or until the blood mage next prepares spells for the day.
At 3rd level, as a swift action, the blood mage may inflict an amount of Constitution damage to increase his caster level by the amount sacrificed for one round per level.
At 5th level, the blood mage may use his blood sacrifice ability to craft magical items.
At 7th level, as a free action, the blood mage may spontaneously apply any metamagic feat he possesses to a single spell he has prepared, by inflicting an amount of Constitution damage equal to the adjusted level of the spell, without taking up a higher level spell slot. If this would normally increase the spells’ level to a level higher than he can cast, the blood mage must make a caster level check against a DC equal to 10 + double the spell’s adjusted level in order to cast the spell.
At 11th level, as a standard action, the blood mage may regain 1 spent spell slot for every 3 caster levels (max 5) by sacrificing a number of Hit Points equal to double the spell slots level (minimum 1). He may immediately fill that slot with a spell of an appropriate level. These Hit Points may not be healed by any means until these extra spells are cast, or until the blood mage next prepares spells for the day.
At 13th level, once per day as a reaction, the blood mage may cast any one spell in his spellbook with a casting time of less than a full round, even if the spell was not prepared beforehand. This inflicts an amount of bleed damage equal to twice the level of the spell. This damage can only be inflicted on you.
At 17th level, as a move action, the blood mage may inflict 1 point of bleed damage per caster level, to gain spell resistance equal to the bleed damage + 10, for 1 round per level.
At 20th level, the blood mage has learned to store his spells in his blood. He gains the ability to cast his spells spontaneously, as the sorcerer does. He must still prepare his spells as normal, but he may cast any spell prepared as many times as he has slots of that spell’s level. However, he no longer needs to study his spellbook to prepare his spells.
Unless otherwise specified, the blood mage may use his Blood Sacrifice abilities on an adjacent sentient creature instead of himself. If the creature is unwilling, it must be rendered helpless before performing the Blood Sacrifice. Whether a creature is willing or unwilling, using this ability on a sentient creature other than you is considered an evil act.
Any Constitution sacrificed with this ability may not be healed by any means (including, wish, limited wish, or miracle) except natural healing. If the blood mage is immune to Constitution damage, or does not have blood, he cannot use blood sacrifice on himself, he must use another sentient creature to gain its effects. If the blood mage suffers bleed damage from another source, he may use that for this ability (though the damage must be greater than, or equal to, the cost of the effect used). Temporary Hit Points may not be used for this ability. This ability replaces Arcane Bond and Arcane School.
Toughness: Blood mages gain the Toughness feat. This ability replaces Scribe Scroll.
Cruornomica: A blood mage writes his spellbook and scrolls in blood instead of ink. They function in every way as normal spellbooks and scrolls, except that he must use his blood sacrifice ability to pay any associated material and gold piece costs when scribing scrolls, or copying spells from another wizard’s spellbook or scrolls into his own.
I totally get the whole 'power at a cost' thing from a flavor standpoint. But from a mechanical standpoint, drawbacks should not be used as a means to offset powerful abilities, because in a game with many moving parts, there are often many ways to exploit these mechanics. Take your bleed mechanic, for example. I could summon a creature and use its blood to pay for my wish (I'll make sure to summon a good-aligned creature to balance out the alignment penalty that goes with it). But I could even use my own blood without risk. The 259 bleed damage that I'm going to take in the next round will probably kill me, but that is not going to happen because my cleric buddy casts stabilize on his turn, and he'll not even be smug about it, because I'm going to raise all his stats for free as well. And there are many more. What happens if I have fast healing? What if I have a ring of inner fortitude to offset Con damage? Etc.
I would suggest a different approach that does not include mechanics to turn hit points into wealth or spell power. I'd also prefer interesting new abilities over numerical bonuses. For example a bleed aura that allows the wizard to draw blood from his opponents, the ability to ignite bleeding opponents, turning your blood into acid that harms your attackers, etc.
isdestroyer wrote: Blood Mage (Wizard)
Blood magic is one of the oldest forms of magic, and is considered taboo in most civilized lands. It is a path fraught with peril, but offers great power.
Class Skills: Craft (Int), Fly (Dex), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Blood Sacrifice (Su): Instead of normal material components, a blood mage uses his blood, or the blood of another sentient creature, as the material component for spell casting.
At 1st level, as part of the casting of the spell, the blood mage may inflict an amount of bleed damage equal to the level of spell he is trying to cast as a substitute for the material component cost (if any) of the spell (minimum 1). Valuable components cost 1 additional point of bleed per 100 gp in worth.
In addition, when preparing spells for the day, the blood mage may gain additional spell slots of levels he can cast by sacrificing an amount of Hit Points, and treating his Intelligence score as being higher by the amount sacrificed for the purpose of determining extra spell slots. These Hit Points may not be healed by any means until these extra spells are cast, or until the blood mage next prepares spells for the day.
At 3rd level, as a swift action, the blood mage may inflict an amount of Constitution damage to increase his caster level by the amount sacrificed for one round per level.
At 5th level, the blood mage may use his blood sacrifice ability to craft magical items.
At 7th level, as a free action, the blood mage may spontaneously apply any metamagic feat he possesses to a single spell he has prepared, by inflicting an amount of Constitution damage equal to the adjusted level of the spell, without taking up a higher level spell slot. If this would normally increase the spells’ level to a level higher than he can cast, the blood mage must make a caster level check against a DC equal to 10 + double the spell’s adjusted level in order to cast the spell.
At 11th level, as a standard action, the blood mage may regain 1 spent spell slot for every 3 caster levels (max 5) by sacrificing a number of Hit Points equal to double the spell slots level (minimum 1). He may immediately fill that slot with a spell of an appropriate level. These Hit Points may not be healed by any means until these extra spells are cast, or until the blood mage next prepares spells for the day.
At 13th level, once per day as a reaction, the blood mage may cast any one spell in his spellbook with a casting time of less than a full round, even if the spell was not prepared beforehand. This inflicts an amount of bleed damage equal to twice the level of the spell. This damage can only be inflicted on you.
At 17th level, as a move action, the blood mage may inflict 1 point of bleed damage per caster level, to gain spell resistance equal to the bleed damage + 10, for 1 round per level.
At 20th level, the blood mage has learned to store his spells in his blood. He gains the ability to cast his spells spontaneously, as the sorcerer does. He must still prepare his spells as normal, but he may cast any spell prepared as many times as he has slots of that spell’s level. However, he no longer needs to study his spellbook to prepare his spells.
Unless otherwise specified, the blood mage may use his Blood Sacrifice abilities on an adjacent sentient creature instead of himself. If the creature is unwilling, it must be rendered helpless before performing the Blood Sacrifice. Whether a creature is willing or unwilling, using this ability on a sentient creature other than you is considered an evil act.
Any Constitution sacrificed with this ability may not be healed by any means (including, wish, limited wish, or miracle) except natural healing. If the blood mage is immune to Constitution damage, or does not have blood, he cannot use blood sacrifice on himself, he must use another sentient creature to gain its effects. If the blood mage suffers bleed damage from another source, he may use that for this ability (though the damage must be greater than, or equal to, the cost of the effect used). Temporary Hit Points may not be used for this ability. This ability replaces Arcane Bond and Arcane School.
Toughness: Blood mages gain the Toughness feat. This ability replaces Scribe Scroll.
Cruornomica: A blood mage writes his spellbook and scrolls in blood instead of ink. They function in every way as normal spellbooks and scrolls, except that he must use his blood sacrifice ability to pay any associated material and gold piece costs when scribing scrolls, or copying spells from another wizard’s spellbook or scrolls into his own.
The sacrificing HP for spell slots should probably have a limit. Say, up to your unmodified intelligence modifier number of spells. I can just see a Blood Mage Wizard doing this to bring himself down to unconsciousness only for his Cleric buddy to heal him up.
17th level ability should have a limit, again for the reason listed by Amanuensis because let's say my theoretical blood mage has 18 Con. He should, on average, have 148 HP. He can decide to take 100 bleed damage to give himself 110 Spell Resistance, then have the Cleric who is obviously a bro in all of this heal you up once again. You now have 110 SR. Not even Cthulhu would want to deal with that. Perhaps the limit should be up to your levels in Blood Mage (maximum of SR 30, which even then is high).
Edit: Did not see the "per caster level" for the 17th level ability. Disregard that.
Other than that, looks pretty neat to me.
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