Core Character - Level Waffling


Advice


There's never a guarantee that your character will live as long as you'd like, but you often have some idea of what you'd like to do with 'em.

My PFS Core character has only just reached level 2 after Monday night's game, but I've had class level loosely planned to 12th. By loosely, I mean I know how many levels I'd like in each class, but no specifics like, say, rage powers.

Right now, she's a first level Barbarian, but she's going to level 2 as a Cleric of Pharasma (Death & Healing) and swap out the Anatomist trait for Magical Knack (she's keeping her Birthmark). The current plan is Barbarian 4, Cleric 3, Shadowdancer 5. However, the Bleeding Touch power from the Death domain only lasts for half her Cleric level. With 3 levels, that means it only lasts for that round. If I bump it to Cleric 4, it'll let it last 2 rounds (plus the extra spells, etc. for the higher level). However, this would mean dropping one of her other classes by a level.

So, I'm looking for advice on whether or not to keep her as planned (4/3/5) or whether Barb 4 or Dancer 5 is worth Cleric 4?

While we're here, feat suggestions for 7th, 9th, and 11th are welcome as well, along with alternate character levels to take class levels.

Serenity a.k.a. the Raging Reaper:

Neutral Half-Elf Female, aged 21
Barbarian 1, Cleric 1
STR-14
DEX-13
CON-16
INT-10
WIS-14
CHA-12

Primary Weapon: Masterwork Silver Scythe
Armor: Chain Shirt
Traits: Birthmark, Magical Knack
Domains: Death & Healing
Feats: Skill Focus (Stealth), Dodge

Current Plan:
1-Barbarian 1 [Dodge]
2-Cleric 1 [Pharasma, Channel Positive, Death & Healing]
3-Barbarian 2 [Mobility, RAGE POWER?]
4-Barbarian 3 [+1 DEX]
5-Cleric 2 [Combat Reflexes]
6-Shadowdancer 1
7-Shadowdancer 2 [FEAT?]
8-Cleric 3 [+1 CHA]
9-Barbarian 4 [FEAT?, RAGE POWER?]
10-Shadowdancer 3 [ROGUE TALENT?]
11-Shadowdancer 4 [FEAT?]
12-Shadowdancer 5 [+1 CHA]


The problem with Shadowdancer is that you'll hit a wall with spellcasting - that being 2nd level spells.

The Shadowdancer seems a bit more suited to things like Rogue, Monk, or Ranger, which like to sneak, and don't rely on spellcasting.

So, I guess what I'm wondering is, why not a Barbarian/Sorc/Dragon Disciple?

You'd get better to-hit, amazingly better HP, and your spellcasting would be significantly better (at least up to Caster Level 6 with Barb4/Sorc1, possibly hitting Caster Level 9 with Barb1/Sorc4)


Mainly because I already have a (Sorcerer 4, Fighter 1, Dragon Disciple 2) and would like to try something new. I chose Shadowdancer and worked backwards. The idea for a swift reaper who slays her foes without being a murder hobo led to the Barbarian/Cleric base (originally was only going to be a 1 lvl dip of Cleric). Cleric is for roleplaying purposes as well as some personal and party healing. Looks like our group will have a couple of partial healers (a fire Druid, me, and I think someone else was going to grab 2nd level Cleric or Paladin), but this way I don't need to rely on others to heal me.

Somewhere along the lines, Ruby Rose and Yang Xiao Long got mixed in there as well.

So, I'm happy with the melee reaper I have going (last scenario's Ghetto Crit and Confirmed Critical made the scythe worth it), and am not really looking to change that. (41 damage @ lvl 1 to the Crocodile in Tides of Twilight's low subtier)

The main question is whether losing either (+1 BAB, +1 Fort, 2nd Rage Power) -OR- (+1 Fort, +1 Ref, +1 Will, Defensive Roll, ~ 11 levels of Rogue needed to flank me) is worth getting (+1 BAB, +1 Fort, +1 Will, Caster Level 6, +1 first and second level spell slots, 1d4+2 Rebuke Death, Bleeding Touch lasting 2 rounds)?


This is where I know I'm spoiled by non-CRB material, because I'm having trouble figuring out options that are CRB-only, and every time I come up with an awesome idea, I'm reminded "no, wait, not CRB..."

One of them being that the Barbarian got a LOT of help from the APG and UC. All its best Rage Powers and Archetypes are in those books - the Core Barbarian is kinda... it's not bad, but it's not as much a balls-to-the-wall badass murder-machine as it was meant to be, and only got there via later books.

And, like, Barbarian Healer just SCREAMS Rage Prophet, but... yeah.

Honestly, though, I know you want to play a Shadowdancer, but I kinda think a Cleric 6/Barbarian 6 would be your best bet.

Like I said, Shadowdancer seems a lot more suited to less-beastly classes - Monk, Ranger, Rogue, heck even Bard - while the Barbarian is generally a very... I don't wanna say Leeroy Jenkins, but the Barbarian totally should Leeroy Jenkins the hell out of everything, really.

With a lv6 Barbarian / lv6 Cleric, though, you have 3rd level spells, you have plenty of Rounds of Rage, and you're not going to get flanked by anyone anytime soon.

Plus your BAB isn't absolute garbage - you're lv12, and yet still have a +10 BAB, which is pretty dang respectable.

What with Clerics being pretty strong combatants in their own right from their potential buff spells, and Moment of Clarity allowing you to cast spells during a Rage and all, you'd be a pretty strong warrior/medic.

---

Oddly enough, a Sneak-barian would be easily and fantastically handled in a NON-CORE game, because Urban Barbarian would allow you to Rage and pump your Dex.

Core Barbarian, though, you're a big guy that gets bigger, basically, which doesn't quite play into the whole "sneak-master 9000" thing that Shadowdancer has going for it.


Would Fighter work better with Cleric and Shadowdancer?


Fighter might, yeah. Along with giving you lots of feats.

You miss out on a lot if you simply dip into Barbarian - Rage powers, rounds of Rage being the two biggest.

You can get Extra Rage Power and Extra Rage to supplement that, but that's burning feats to gain those abilities.

The worst a two-level dip into Fighter gives you is 2 extra Combat Feats.

Which is to say it's fantastic, because you lose nothing really, and, YAY FEATS!

Also a bonus vs Fear effects, but meh.

Even taking Fighter up to level 4 is great, because you get 3 Bonus Combat Feats, Bravery, and a permanent bonus reducing Armor Check Penalties and increasing your Maximum Dexterity when wearing Armor.

Fighter/Cleric/Shadowdancer would probably be a bit more useful, yes, since the Fighter can let you gain all the necessary feats pretty much instantly (at least a Human could - a Half-Elf can do it by lv2 Fighter, taking Dodge & Mobility lv1, Combat Reflexes lv2, and from level 3 onwards, go nuts)

You can also use any extra Bonus Combat Feats and normal feats to further support the sneaking aspect of Shadowdancer however you deem necessary.


The Two-Handed Shadow Dancer Guide suggests Ranger, which makes a lot of sense, actually.

Rangers have lots of Skill Points, lots of HP, full BAB, Favored Enemy, Favored Terrain, and, best of all, have Ranger Combat Styles.

At second level, you can take Two Weapon Fighting, or Precise Shot, or other feats you don't meet the requirements for (meaning you don't have to have a 15 Dex for TWF, or Point-Blank & Rapid Shot for Precise Shot.

A Ranger 3 / Cleric 2 would be quite effective for entering into Shadow Dancer at lv6: You'd have Favored Enemy & Terrain, a Bonus Combat Style Feat, Track, Endurance, good 1st level spells from Cleric, and a Base Attack Bonus of +4.


Hmm, I had at first planned to be Fighter/Shadowdancer with shortsword and light shield before Barbarian/Cleric/Shadowdancer with (potentially) a +1 Holy Undead Bane Scythe became the plan. Now I'm seriously thinking about being a Fighter/Cleric/Shadowdancer with (potentially) a +1 Holy Undead Bane Scythe.

Other boons are not dying when calming down at higher levels. (Wow, the extra HP is per HD, not Barb levels!)

Main disappointments would be the attachment I've built over 3 scenarios, -10 ft of move (not that swift of a reaper anymore), no Uncanny Dodge until Shadowdancer and no stackable levels to go with it... And also I've got that (Sorcerer 4, Fighter 1, Dragon Disciple 2) as well as a (Fighter 4, Brawler 1), both non-core, so I've played Fighter enough already...


chbgraphicarts wrote:

The Two-Handed Shadow Dancer Guide suggests Ranger, which makes a lot of sense, actually.

Rangers have lots of Skill Points, lots of HP, full BAB, Favored Enemy, Favored Terrain, and, best of all, have Ranger Combat Styles.

At second level, you can take Two Weapon Fighting, or Precise Shot, or other feats you don't meet the requirements for (meaning you don't have to have a 15 Dex for TWF, or Point-Blank & Rapid Shot for Precise Shot.

A Ranger 3 / Cleric 2 would be quite effective for entering into Shadow Dancer at lv6: You'd have Favored Enemy & Terrain, a Bonus Combat Style Feat, Track, Endurance, good 1st level spells from Cleric, and a Base Attack Bonus of +4.

Hmm, I'd have to choose the ranged style as Scythes can't be dual wielded, though this makes daggers a bit more viable as my chosen ranged option. Favoured Enemy either Undead or Human...

Hmm, perhaps (Ranger 3, Cleric 3, Shadowdancer 6)? While the Fort save won't be as high, the Ref gets a nice boost which is helpful with Evasion. I don't have to focus on CON quite as much, possibly dropping to 14. +8/+6/+6 base saves at 12.


My core character is going ranger 6, then into Shadowdancer until I get the pet, then not sure, depends on what abilities I've used more. I am making a reach build since I have to get combat reflexes and mobility for shadowdancer. I'd really suggest using a glaive (or other reach weapon) and just describing it as a scythe with a really long handle, but obviously your call.

Scarab Sages

Ranger can fill the divine casting niche without needing actual cleric levels, so you have that going for you if you change to full ranger.

Silver Crusade

Slayer/Shadowdancer :), if you click on my avatar, you will get a link to my PFS Paladin/Shadow Dancer.


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Skyler Malik wrote:
Slayer/Shadowdancer :), if you click on my avatar, you will get a link to my PFS Paladin/Shadow Dancer.

He is looking for a Core Campaign character -- CRB only.


I've decided to go (Barbarian 1, Cleric of Pharasma 3, Ranger 3, Shadowdancer 5) and not getting a 4th level of Cleric unless I end up going beyond 12.

Drogos wrote:
My core character is going ranger 6, then into Shadowdancer until I get the pet, then not sure, depends on what abilities I've used more. I am making a reach build since I have to get combat reflexes and mobility for shadowdancer. I'd really suggest using a glaive (or other reach weapon) and just describing it as a scythe with a really long handle, but obviously your call.

My Fighter/Brawler uses a Glaive-Guisarme, so something different is preferred. Scythe for the Reaper concept (and reference to RWBY) plus that delicious x4 critical. Got that in my last scenario for 41 damage! XD

Imbicatus wrote:
Ranger can fill the divine casting niche without needing actual cleric levels, so you have that going for you if you change to full ranger.

Ranger doesn't get the divine connection a Cleric does. A Ranger may revere even worship Pharasma, but his powers wouldn't come from her. Also, no Domains or Channeling. Besides, with a Prestige class, the Ranger's Hunter's Bond will be pretty lackluster no matter which way you go.

And yes, CORE only. I'm going to make another topic for mid-high level feat suggestions. That said, any suggestions for which levels to take when? I'm thinking something like this:

1-Barbarian 1
2-Cleric 1
3-Ranger 1
4-Ranger 2
5-Cleric 2
6-Shadowdancer 1
7-Shadowdancer 2
8-Shadowdancer 3
9-Shadowdancer 4
10-Shadowdancer 5
11-Ranger 3
12-Cleric 3

Scarab Sages

Channeling is going to be awful even if you do go cleric. Really the only thing cleric is giving you is first level domain powers, a few spells per day and wand access. The ranger is giving you a few spells per day, higher overall caster level, better overall BAB, and more varied wand access. Also, while hunters bond is lackluster, if you choose companions it will buff your shadow too.


Bleeding touch is a very weak ability, and as a multi-class Cleric it's pretty much useless to you. Consider that even with your (very low) 14 strength, you still deal an average of 11 damage per hit with a scythe when raging. There's pretty much no circumstance you will ever want to use your bleeding touch instead. I don't think the Cleric class investment is doing much for you, but it's 3/4 BAB so it's not the end of the world if you want to run it for RP purposes.

A score of 14 strength on a barbarian is perilously low. You're getting very little out of 14 wisdom and 12 charisma, and you don't need a constitution modifier quite that high. Move your racial bonus from constitution to strength, drop wisdom to 13 and charisma to 8 and put those points into strength. That should let you begin with 18 strength, which you can improve to 20 by the 8th level.

There's no particularly reason that Shadowdancer needs to be combined with traditional stealth-based classes. Because of the way Pathfinder's class skill system works, there's nothing stopping ANY class from being good at stealth if they want to be. If anything, the Fighter works best since he meets the rather steep feat prerequisites most easily, though his poor skill point total means you'll probably need some intelligence investment. Once you take that first level in Shadowdancer you get the class skill bonus anyways. With a Masterwork Chain Shirt or Mithral Breastplate you only have a -1 ACP while maintaining a competitive AC (and if you're willing to splurge on the armor expert trait, you can bring that down to 0) so you don't even have to make tradeoffs in the armor department to be good at stealth.


Assuming Channel Energy affects the caster, it makes for helpful aid mid combat for saving lives and hurting undead, both of which play thematically with Pharasma. The Ranger is an excellent hunter and tracker, in fact, that works so well with the reaper concept that I'm dropping 3 levels of Barbarian for 3 Ranger levels! However, even if I drop the final level of Barbarian and the 3 levels of Cleric, I'd still be a worse caster. Granted, the casting for this character is a tertiary thing at best, but I'll take more spells/day at one less caster level any day. If I ever go beyond level 12, I might pick up more Ranger levels, but as it stands, 3 is enough.


Dasrak wrote:

Bleeding touch is a very weak ability, and as a multi-class Cleric it's pretty much useless to you. Consider that even with your (very low) 14 strength, you still deal an average of 11 damage per hit with a scythe when raging. There's pretty much no circumstance you will ever want to use your bleeding touch instead. I don't think the Cleric class investment is doing much for you, but it's 3/4 BAB so it's not the end of the world if you want to run it for RP purposes.

A score of 14 strength on a barbarian is perilously low. You're getting very little out of 14 wisdom and 12 charisma, and you don't need a constitution modifier quite that high. Move your racial bonus from constitution to strength, drop wisdom to 13 and charisma to 8 and put those points into strength. That should let you begin with 18 strength, which you can improve to 20 by the 8th level.

There's no particularly reason that Shadowdancer needs to be combined with traditional stealth-based classes. Because of the way Pathfinder's class skill system works, there's nothing stopping ANY class from being good at stealth if they want to be. If anything, the Fighter works best since he meets the rather steep feat prerequisites most easily, though his poor skill point total means you'll probably need some intelligence investment. Once you take that first level in Shadowdancer you get the class skill bonus anyways. With a Masterwork Chain Shirt or Mithral Breastplate you only have a -1 ACP while maintaining a competitive AC (and if you're willing to splurge on the armor expert trait, you can bring that down to 0) so you don't even have to make tradeoffs in the armor department to be good at stealth.

ARGH! Your avatar creeped me right out, what is it?

Er, anyway, I can't outright drop CHA as I personally detest dump stats. In addition to that, to make things interesting our players have decided to play with a couple of self limiting rules:

Westwin Self-Limiting Core Campaign:
At least 1 rank into class Knowledge skills (we're pathfinders, we should be knowledgeable in our fields)

At least 1 language in addition to Common (we travel a lot and not everyone speaks Taldane)

NO expendable companions (they're friends and confidants)

NO dump stats (umm...self-limiting to avoid powergamers and minmaxers?)

So a minimum of 10 in a stat, not counting Racial penalties. Also, the Cleric's Channeling and the Shadowdancer's spell-like (?) abilities are CHA based.

Main reason I'm not a Fighter despite how helpful it would be is because I wish to try something a little different. Still smashy, just not in the exact same way.


Quote:
Assuming Channel Energy affects the caster, it makes for helpful aid mid combat for saving lives and hurting undead, both of which play thematically with Pharasma.

At most you're doing 2d6 damage with a (low) save for half. Also, you must choose to either heal or harm when you use channel energy; it cannot do both with the same use. Similarly, the healing is quite small. Any opponent worth their salt deals more than 7 damage per round (the average of 2d6) so trying to heal in combat with your positive channeling is like bailing water with a thimbol. Even single-class Clerics are advised to channel between combats and not during; this goes triple for you as a multi-class Cleric.

Quote:
ARGH! Your avatar creeped me right out, what is it?

I chose it on a whim. I think it's like an ice hag or something? Probably from Reign of Winter (don't know for sure, I've only read book 1).

Quote:
NO dump stats (umm...self-limiting to avoid powergamers and minmaxers?)

You're a 50/50 split multi-class character, you are not powergaming nor at any risk of powergaming. In any case, you can drop your charisma to 10 and your wisdom to 12 then. It still gives you enough extra points to push strength to 16 before racial bonus.

Quote:
Also, the Cleric's Channeling and the Shadowdancer's spell-like (?) abilities are CHA based.

If you really want more uses per day of channel, buy the Extra Channel feat. As already mentioned above, it's not going to be useful offensively so your DC doesn't matter.

As for the Shadowdancer abilities, only the DC is based on charisma. However, your DC's are going to be so low anyways that it doesn't matter. For instance, if you have 12 charisma your shadow illusion has a DC of 12. Pretty much every monster in existence has a better than even chance of passing that. Instead, a better plan is to use this illusion in situations where your enemies will not be interacting with it. If they don't touch the illusion, they don't get a save at all.

Shadow Call isn't much better. With your 12 charisma, it has a DC of 15. However, unlike your shadow illusion it offers two saving throws, one to disbelieve and one for the spell it replicates. Even wizards take the spell focus feat to make shadow conjuration reliable, and they're running intelligence scores in the mid-20's. Your paltry 12 isn't going to make a difference, nor will any reasonable charisma investment.

In fact, with Shadow Conjuration a low DC can actually be useful. You can use it to replicate a fog effect around your party. Because the DC is so low your party easily saves and sees through the illusionary fog, but enemies that are outside the fog aren't interacting with it and don't get a save at all! This means your party gets the benefit of concealment against ranged attacks, but their own attacks are not penalized. This is a really devious ploy.


I feel like if you're dipping so little in cleric, just for a few spells and some channeling, it's almost not worth the loss of action economy. You could be smashing things with your weapon (which unfortunately is not doing bludgeoning damage, so watch out for them skellies) but instead you're going for 2d6 damage to undead/aoe. You might consider taking Selective Channeling for that, by the way, in the event there's a living target (evil cleric!) behind those undead, who you'd like to not heal. unfortunately, a lot of the channeling feats are ultimate magic or advanced player guide or ultimate combat - if these things aren't considered Core by your Gm, then you're better off not bothering with the extra cleric levels. 2d6 heals/dmg to undead every round doesn't beat out what you could be doing with a good weapon, nor the other way around, if you focus on a lot of channeling and ditch the barb levels.

If you could get channel-smite, I'd almost say to hell with the rest of the barbarian levels, and boost up those cleric levels. You could even reduce the str a bit, boost the wisdom, and take Guided hand to use your Wis as your attack bonus. You'd really crush those undead with your weapon + xd6 positive damage, while being able to AOE heal for more substantial numbers when you can.

I know I've heard people rag on the heal domain (not everyone, but hey) because it doesn't really add domain spells you can't already get with spontaneous casting, but at 6th level, all of your healing spells are empowered for free (+50%? what's not to like). That really helps. If you can take reach spells, it'll allow you the versatility of being able to fight, and being able to retreat into the shadows to escape close quarters and to heal up/heal your party, from afar.

Anyway, Im not sure I'm feeling the barb levels here. Not a lot of synergy between those classes. Aside from fast movement (which helps everyone) and some weapon proficiencies and class skills and 3 or 4 hps, I'd just stick with the cleric levels henceforth, with never more than a couple levels dipped elsewhere. The shadowdancer thing, after hide in plain sight, sort of lacks the usefulness you'd get out of a few more levels of casting, and since you plan to melee, you really want to be able to cast divine power asap (to boost up your BAB and the like).

As for uncanny dodge - level 2, and you won't need more barbarian if that's all you wanted. Shadowdancer will give you this anyway if you take him later.

As for the rage, with your stats spread out the way they are, and the assurance that as a multiclasser you'll end up fatigued or exhausted when your rage dies -- the more you invest *outside* barbarian, the less use you'll get out of the rage. All the best barbarian goodies are level 6+ and shine with high str and con. All the best cleric stuff, the same, but they shine with high cha/wis. But getting both means, you're going to suffer until level 12, at which point a single class would have found their feet at level 6 and really honed a strategy to a fine point at 12, while you're just getting started, and you're a jack of all trades/master of none.

Anyway that's just what I think, good luck on whatever you decide.


Aemesh wrote:
ou might consider taking Selective Channeling for that, by the way, in the event there's a living target (evil cleric!) behind those undead

This is unnecessary; when used offensively, channel energy cannot heal. It's a common mistake, so let me reference the acctual rule:

PRD wrote:

A good cleric (or one who worships a good deity) channels positive energy and can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures.

An evil cleric (or one who worships an evil deity) channels negative energy and can choose to deal damage to living creatures or to heal undead creatures.

Notice the wording, you can choose to heal the living or harm the undead. It's one or the other. If you want to heal your allies, then nearby undead take no damage. If you want to damage nearby undead, your allies don't get healed.


The spelly abilities are not meant to be forever relied upon. They're meant to add a little versatility and round out her abilities some while keeping the reaper image.

Shadowdancer was where it all started with it's affinity with the darkness. I really like the defensive abilities and the ability to summon a shadow and teleport through shadows. (hm, can I jump out of a summoned Shadow? XD)

As mentioned, Cleric gives me the connection to Pharasma that none of the other divine classes can. A couple buffs here and the possibility to heal others (even minorly) can be helpful if you don't have a dedicated healer. (We have a fire Druid, and I believe someone else was going to grab Cleric at 2nd.) And of course there's this: "Oh no, a teammate just dropped and may be in danger of dying! I'll rush across the battlefield faster than anyone else and either Rebuke Death or burst to heal and save their life."

Barbarian was fun to play and I don't like the idea of retconing it away. One level is enough to keep the fun. Ranger gives BAB and Ref and has the hunter feel to it with the favored enemy. Fighter might work with 2 extra Feats and some Armor Training, but I'm reluctant since I've already got a Fighter character (was pure until I was convinced to grab a level of Brawler).

As for hurting Undead... Even without Favored Enemy, bludgeoning weapons, and Positive Energy, I've always intended to enhance the Scythe with Undead Bane or Holy or both.


Dasrak wrote:
Aemesh wrote:
ou might consider taking Selective Channeling for that, by the way, in the event there's a living target (evil cleric!) behind those undead

This is unnecessary; when used offensively, channel energy cannot heal. It's a common mistake, so let me reference the acctual rule:

PRD wrote:

A good cleric (or one who worships a good deity) channels positive energy and can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures.

An evil cleric (or one who worships an evil deity) channels negative energy and can choose to deal damage to living creatures or to heal undead creatures.

Notice the wording, you can choose to heal the living or harm the undead. It's one or the other. If you want to heal your allies, then nearby undead take no damage. If you want to damage nearby undead, your allies don't get healed.

Yes, exactly. I know this from how often Kiera is brought on adventures. Again, my bursting would be an emergency resort for saving lives or healing my party and/or tied up goons outside of combat.


K-kun the Insane wrote:
Dasrak wrote:
Aemesh wrote:
ou might consider taking Selective Channeling for that, by the way, in the event there's a living target (evil cleric!) behind those undead

This is unnecessary; when used offensively, channel energy cannot heal. It's a common mistake, so let me reference the acctual rule:

PRD wrote:

A good cleric (or one who worships a good deity) channels positive energy and can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures.

An evil cleric (or one who worships an evil deity) channels negative energy and can choose to deal damage to living creatures or to heal undead creatures.

Notice the wording, you can choose to heal the living or harm the undead. It's one or the other. If you want to heal your allies, then nearby undead take no damage. If you want to damage nearby undead, your allies don't get healed.
Yes, exactly. I know this from how often Kiera is brought on adventures. Again, my bursting would be an emergency resort for saving lives or healing my party and/or tied up goons outside of combat.

Oh noes, that's one of those rules that's gone by the wayside. Funny, as soon as you pointed it out, I remember reading it, and yet... we've been running games for a while, and using it incorrectly, and somehow it just never came into question. Well, good to know. Still, if healing the living - your party - you may want to exclude the bad guys that are also living.


Aemesh wrote:
K-kun the Insane wrote:
Dasrak wrote:
Aemesh wrote:
ou might consider taking Selective Channeling for that, by the way, in the event there's a living target (evil cleric!) behind those undead

This is unnecessary; when used offensively, channel energy cannot heal. It's a common mistake, so let me reference the acctual rule:

PRD wrote:

A good cleric (or one who worships a good deity) channels positive energy and can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures.

An evil cleric (or one who worships an evil deity) channels negative energy and can choose to deal damage to living creatures or to heal undead creatures.

Notice the wording, you can choose to heal the living or harm the undead. It's one or the other. If you want to heal your allies, then nearby undead take no damage. If you want to damage nearby undead, your allies don't get healed.
Yes, exactly. I know this from how often Kiera is brought on adventures. Again, my bursting would be an emergency resort for saving lives or healing my party and/or tied up goons outside of combat.
Oh noes, that's one of those rules that's gone by the wayside. Funny, as soon as you pointed it out, I remember reading it, and yet... we've been running games for a while, and using it incorrectly, and somehow it just never came into question. Well, good to know. Still, if healing the living - your party - you may want to exclude the bad guys that are also living.

The Feat Selective Channeling lets you exclude things from your Channel.

I swear there's a way to both Heal and Harm simultaneously in Pathfinder, but for the life of me, I can't find the option that lets you do that.

Scarab Sages

chbgraphicarts wrote:


I swear there's a way to both Heal and Harm simultaneously in Pathfinder, but for the life of me, I can't find the option that lets you do that.

The Conversion Channel does it if you worship Asmodeus. You can also use the Envoy of Balance PrC to do it. Neither are available in Core Campaign.

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