Familiars and LG Wizards


Rules Questions


My LG Wizard has got the Familiar option. I think that Familiar's AL has not to be the same as the Wizard's, but I'm not certain about it.
Furthermore, if my LG Wizard take levels as Paladin, what AL must have her Familiar? LG?


Basic familiars have no alignment restrictions. Improved Familiars may have alignment restrictions, but these vary from one familiar to the next. The only limitation imposed by the Paladin class is from the Paladin's code that prohibits you from consorting with evil creatures.

Liberty's Edge

Basically what Dasrak said. You can take whatever you want as long as it isn't evil or chaotic.

Also, Paladins technically can work with evil if it's necessary in the pursuit of defeating a greater evil, but they're walking on thin ice if they do so. It's usually best to just not do so.


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Alignment isn't really a factor in basic familiar selection. I think the basic ones keep their base alignment, usually neutral. If you get an Improved Familiar later on you'll have to pick one within one step from you on each alignment axis. If you're going to be a paladin too, picking one that is not evil is paramount.

The bigger question is what do you want to use the familiar for? If you're going paladin you'll want one that can stand the rigors of combat; perhaps a basic familiar with the Mauler archetype; perhaps at higher level an Improved Familiar with regeneration.

If however you're looking for a scout to keep an eye out for danger then hide when battle begins look at the Tiny sized flying familiars. They have great stealth and can fit inside basically any environment. They won't do much good in a fight but they could deliver the touch of a healing spell as you gain paladin levels much later.

So, what do you want the familiar to do?


Well, as a wizard I'll keep the Familiar no matter how many classes I get in the future. I opted for an Owl (and I've never played with a Familiar, I must admit...)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
kirowan wrote:
Well, as a wizard I'll keep the Familiar no matter how many classes I get in the future. I opted for an Owl (and I've never played with a Familiar, I must admit...)

You're good then. Paladins have no strictures against owls. Be adivised that even after you take levels in Paladin. Arcane Spell Failure chance still applies if you wear armor. So the question you need to ask yourself is what are you getting out o Paladin that's worth delaying spell progression for? Or are you only taking a few or 1 levels in wizard?


OOH, owl's a good one! Tiny size, +15 Stealth to start, a +5 attack at first level. They'll never do much damage but with Natural AC +1 at first level they're walking in the door with a 16 AC. Then again if you don't want them to fight that Stealth is still insane for scouting. Only downside is Low-Light Vision instead of Darkvision or Scent, so even though they can double move or Charge 120' in a round they'll need at least SOME kind of light to see by.

Also remember, your owl is good for so much more through the addition of either shared skill ranks, an archetype or both. Familiars get archetypes too so you can modify your familiar to do all sorts of things. If you are looking to be the party's resident know-it-all for example and take tons of skill ranks in different knowledges the Sage archetype could bolster your skills. Plus who doesn't like the trope of the wisened old owl?

If your PC is Small sized and may employ their familiar as a mount, look at the Mauler archetype. Downside is you've got an owl that never gets any smarter than 6 Int or any communication skills but still understands your commands. By 3rd level though your familiar is able to achieve a "battle form" at will making it a Medium sized owl, it's natural Str is up +1 to 7, then the change from Tiny to Medium gives it +4 Str for -2 Dex, and finally the Battle Form adds an additional +2 Str for a total of 13 Str. Now your mega-owl has 2 claw attacks, +3 (1d8+1) each. You lose a bit in attack bonus but if you can have it make flying Charge attacks you're back up to +5 on each claw.

There's archetypes that make them super sneaky scouts, decoys, wielders of minor divine power, protectors or even help with crafting items. Again I'd advise you to think about what you want your familiar to actually do, then find ways to optimize your little buddy towards that end.


Also as far as I know while Paladins are restricted from consorting with Evil (except in very limited cases for the greater good) they actually don't have any restrictions on consorting with Chaotic creatures (which is good as otherwise Paladins and Barbarians would never be able to be in the same party..) so I don't think a Paladin would be restricted by being a Paladin from having a Chaotic Good or Chaotic Neutral familiar - however by the rules of Familiars / Improved Familiars they may be (since they are more than one step from the familiar's alignment - they may be restricted from some familiars)

Remember as well that many of the familiar's stats are derived from your full character (BAB, HP, Skills) not from your Wizard level (which only impacts your familiar specific abilities). The "Boon Companion" feat is also useful to consider - worth seeing if it impacts the value of some familiar archetypes.

If this is for PFS play you should also note that you can't have two companions - so you may want to avoid the Paladin Divine Bond with a mount in favor of the other options (weapon or if you take a paladin archetype some other options like holy symbol or armor). In general I'd probably suggest that route even for non-pfs play just for ease of play (it is hard enough to manage two characters let alone three)


One further note - depending on your God's specific Paladin Code and/or oaths you take as a paladin you may have further restrictions (i.e. some gods aren't big fans of any form of servitude/slavery and familiars might be interpreted as being forced service - those Paladins probably also don't take the mount form of Divine Bond.


Rycaut wrote:
One further note - depending on your God's specific Paladin Code and/or oaths you take as a paladin you may have further restrictions (i.e. some gods aren't big fans of any form of servitude/slavery and familiars might be interpreted as being forced service - those Paladins probably also don't take the mount form of Divine Bond.

Pretty sure there are no core gods that would confuse legitimate slavery with choosing an animal and granting them sentience to act as your magical friend, or striking a deal with an outsider to become your familiar. Now, if you started treating them as a slave or target practice AFTER the fact, there might be a problem.

In the spirit of the paladin class though, as a GM I would totally say that if you choose an improved familiar, they must be available to either any Good or Lawful Good wizards.


Thanks for all your comments :)

Rycaut: I think that BAB, HP, and Skills are derived from the master's PC level (in my case, wizard's), as well as special abilities (checked in Core Rulebook :))

I'm still building my PC (I consider, of course, to improve my Owl Familiar with boons):

Half-elf (felmale)LG, Integrated Trait;
Wizard: Abjuration specialist (Counterspell) Lvl 3
Paladin Lvl 5
Anointed Knight (Prestige Class from 'Book of Exalted Deeds') Lvl 2
Total Lvl 10

...to explore Castle Ravenloft ('Expedition to CR')


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Rycaut wrote:
One further note - depending on your God's specific Paladin Code and/or oaths you take as a paladin you may have further restrictions (i.e. some gods aren't big fans of any form of servitude/slavery and familiars might be interpreted as being forced service - those Paladins probably also don't take the mount form of Divine Bond.

I have never seen this. If someone told you this tell them to show it to you in a book and then let us know about it.

Scarab Sages

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I don't know if you're interested, but did you know that there's an AMAZING FAMILIAR-THEMED PALADIN ARCHETYPE? It's... it's just fantastic. One of my favorites to date. It's actually just a better version of the normal Paladin that gets a couple of class features a little later, but doesn't change the scaling. If you're really planning on taking Paladin to level 5, take this archetype. It scales your familiar for basically no downside.

Also, don't forget about the Spirit's Gift feat. Giving your Familiar fast healing 1 or DR 5/Adamantine is HUGE in the early game, and pretty darn good any other time. Oh, and once you hit 9th level, take Boon Companion for your Mount if you can, or retrain into the feat. If you can take Monstrous Mount, even better.


I like the idea of a familiar, but there are only a few options with them.

1) Keep them tucked away safe somewhere which is less than useful when you're a traveling murder hobo
2) keep getting new ones as they die often
3) Spend much time and energy protecting them.
4) and of course improved familiars which change the rules a bit.


My Familiar Owl will travel inside the backpack (its big eyes emerging from it).


Chosen One paladins are nice, but they don't get Divine Bond. Just to be accurate and not say they have no downside.


[QUOTE=

Rycaut: I think that BAB, HP, and Skills are derived from the master's PC level (in my case, wizard's), as well as special abilities (checked in Core Rulebook :))

Actually no - familiars use the master's character level (to count as a given hit dice), the master's TOTAL HP (from all classes) - divide by 2 for the familiar's HP rounded down, the master's total BAB (again from all classes) for BAB for the familiar, the master's base saves (again from all classes but doesn't get any special bonuses the master gets - like a Paladin's Divine Grace) and the master's ranks in skills (unless the familar's ranks are higher) - all assuming you don't have an archetype applied to the familiar.

Special abilities (like speak with master etc) do derive from your class level as a wizard (or other class that gets familiars).

The Paladin archetype that gets a familiar instead of the usual Divine Bond (and some delayed entry into other abilities) is a really nice archetype - lots of nice abilities (and the Emissary archetype itself grants some really nifty abilities - like a once per day use of a domain ability. And free improved familiar at level 7 is pretty nifty as well


as others have noted the Chosen One Paladin's don't get Divine Bond (either type - so no mount animal companion or divinely enchanted weapon). But they still get all the other great Paladin abilities - plus have a highly flavorful story and companion built in (plus the great story hooks for a DM of a literal emissary from the Paladin's god / patron)

[as a DM I would totally allow or use/abuse this for antipaladins as well - somehow the flavor of an evil antipaladin who eventually gets an imp or something similar familiar just feels right]

Silver Crusade

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Owls are true servants of Justice.


wraithstrike wrote:
Rycaut wrote:
One further note - depending on your God's specific Paladin Code and/or oaths you take as a paladin you may have further restrictions (i.e. some gods aren't big fans of any form of servitude/slavery and familiars might be interpreted as being forced service - those Paladins probably also don't take the mount form of Divine Bond.
I have never seen this. If someone told you this tell them to show it to you in a book and then let us know about it.

I'm looking for my copies (or should just look at the PDF's) but think it may have either been in Faiths of Purity? (or the book about the Empyreal Lords). I've been looking for it but can't find it but I do recall reading it in a Paizo book somewhere.


It is not in Faiths of Purity, and that is also the same book with the Empyreal Lords in it.


no there is another book with just the Empyreal Lords - (sorry at work right now so don't have my library in front of me)


kirowan wrote:

My LG Wizard has got the Familiar option. I think that Familiar's AL has not to be the same as the Wizard's, but I'm not certain about it.

Furthermore, if my LG Wizard take levels as Paladin, what AL must have her Familiar? LG?
PRD wrote:
Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.


LazarX wrote:
You're good then. Paladins have no strictures against owls.

But what if the owls are not what they seem?


Interesting. I need to get me that familiar folio book.

So if you take that Chose One paladin archetype and if the familiar from it stacks with the wizard familiar, does it get the outsider form at wiz2/pal5 ?

A Cassissian angel seems to fit...


Doomn wrote:
kirowan wrote:

My LG Wizard has got the Familiar option. I think that Familiar's AL has not to be the same as the Wizard's, but I'm not certain about it.

Furthermore, if my LG Wizard take levels as Paladin, what AL must have her Familiar? LG?
PRD wrote:
Associates: While she may adventure with good or neutral allies, a paladin avoids working with evil characters or with anyone who consistently offends her moral code. Under exceptional circumstances, a paladin can ally with evil associates, but only to defeat what she believes to be a greater evil. A paladin should seek an atonement spell periodically during such an unusual alliance, and should end the alliance immediately should she feel it is doing more harm than good. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good.

Oh my god! RAW! Does it mean that my Familiar has to be LG? A paladin only accepts LG non-animal beings. So an owl (Familiar) can be of a non-evil AL... (ie, N)

Scarab Sages

No, your Familiar for a Paladin does not need to be LG. Heck, some of the Chosen One improved familiars aren't even good at all! (Arbiter is LN) However, you may find it odd justifying your familiar relationship with an evil familiar from an RP perspective.


you probably can't have an evil familiar as a Paladin (via Chosen One) as the flavor of that archetype is that the familiar is an emissary of your patron (for most Paladin's that would be your god or at least a divine being who has taken an interest in you) - in fact you don't get Knowledge (Religion) as a class skill as a Chosen One - instead you have to rely on instruction from your familiar (at least that's the flavor)

Generally your levels in classes that grant a familiar should stack - that's the text of the Wizard's familiar class feature - so at least at my table if you were a Wizard 2 /Paladin (Chosen One) you would indeed have a familiar with those levels - however I would still rule that the Familiar only becomes an improved familiar when you hit Paladin Level 7 - as it is a feature of the paladin archetype so I think the "level" there refers to the paladin not the effective level for the familiar.

(think of it as a price for the greatly expanded casting ability of having Wizard levels as well as Paladin levels - and it is a free, very nice feat)

I'll also note that if you do Wizard / Paladin if you take a few more levels of Wizard you easily qualify for either Mystic Theurge or Eldritch Knight prestige classes (if you take 1 or 3 additional Wizard levels - both may be a bit sub-optimal vs just advancing your Paladin levels as Paladin's keep getting nifty class features but both have some advantages to offer as well (and technically you could actually take one more Wizard level then two levels of Mystic Theurge (which would get you to a wizard casting level of 5) and then go Eldritch Knight if you really wanted to. Though I don't think either prestige class would advance your Familiar's abilities.

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