Hi, I'm having some doubts with a combination I made almost by mistake.
Here's the thing, I'll go straight to the question:
I'm a level 15 TWF rogue, I have Improved Steal, the Weapon Snatcher talent, and recently I took the Break Guard feat (I know, I know, but we're not here to question my character advancing decisions, as bad as they may be)
Ideally it would work like this: Four normal attacks, the fifth and last attack would be a Disarm maneuver, using a Sleight of Hand check. If succesfull, I would use a swift action to make a last attack agains the disarmed opponent.
Doubts:
- When you make a Combat Maneuver as part of an iterative attack, you suffer the -5 penalty to your BAB if it's not the first attack (I think. It makes sense to me). But Weapon Snatcher subtitutes the CMB for a skill check. Do you still apply the -5/-10 penalty to that check? Seeing that you don't add bonuses like Weapon Focus to the skill check, I'll say you don't add penalties neither.
- Normal disarm is made with your weapon. It's made with a weapon even using Weapon Snatcher? The use of Sleight of Hand seems to suggest you use your hand, but there's nothing in the talent that says so. Also, that would be impossible in TWF, as I have both hands full. And you have to make the disarm with a weapon for Break Guard to trigger, which lead me to the next question:
- If I use Break Guard, what BAB should I use? Highest BAB? Should I continue with the next BAB of the iterative attack? This attack is an extra attack as a reaction to a feat, so I'm inclined to say highest BAB (sort of an extra attack via Haste, or the Rapid Shot extra attack)
All this makes sense to me until I put it togheter. Then basically I'm trading my lowest BAB attack for a roll without penalties to trigger an attack at my highest BAB, so I'm going from, let's say, 24/24/19/19/14 to 24/24/24/19/19 and disarming my opponent on top of that. Sounds a bit (a lot) unbalanced to me, but my DM is a rules man, and said that if it's legal then go with it (He also said that from now on all his monsters and NPCs will have natural weapons, but let´s hope that was a joke)
Thanks.
Nobody? I thought this question would be worth at least a little debate.
Just want to hear your opinions, even if they are "Yes, you´re right, nothing to see here, carry on" or even "This is clearly explained in the rules and you have to be dumb as a brick just for asking"
Lvl 15 rogue => BAB +11/+6/+1
You say you're TWF, but don't mention ITWF, so assuming Off-hand weapon is light and Two-Weapon Fighting feat => +9,+9/+4/-1
Since that's not five attacks, let's assume ITWF => +9,+9/+4,+4/-1
This last attack is taking a net -12 penalty (-2 for twf, -10 for third iterative). So 1d20 + CMB - 12 + other mods against target's CMD.
Because of Weapon Snatcher your sleight of hand check can replace your CMB. For a lvl 15 rogue, that's probably 15 ranks (assuming you kept it maxed) +3 for class skill + dex + any other mods like "deft hands" feat. That's probably going to be higher than your CMB of BAB + STR.
However, you still take all the same penalties your CMB check would. You'll get your ranks + class skill + dex + stuff like "deft hands" and a host of other modifiers, but you don't escape the penalties.
Should you succeed, Break Guard certainly will let you give him another whack.
Yes, I have ITWF, hence the four attacks and then the disarm.
Right now my Sleight of Hand is 15 ranks + 9 DES + 3 class skill + 2 racial + 5 gloves of larceny + 6 skill focus, for a grand total of 40, way better than my crappy CMB.
If I have to take the -10 penalty to the skill check for being the third iterative, just like using the CMB, then I assume I also apply the bonuses, like feats, Weapon Enhancements, and even flanking and magic items, effectively turning the combat Maneuver into an attack roll, but changing your BAB+STR for your Sleight of Hand. I think that´s even better for me.
Should you succeed, Break Guard certainly will let you give him another whack.
Yes, but at which BAB?
I would say the same one that you used for the disarm attack that triggers Break Guard (or the BAB that you would have used if it wasn't replaced by your Sleight of Hand check), but with the modifiers for the OTHER weapon. That is, if you used your Sword of Disarming +5 to disarm, but your other hand has a generic dagger +1, you use the generic dagger's plusses and damage die.