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As the title says. In another thread, somebody discussed the idea of using a perfectly worded wish with a wish spell as a means to obtain Godhood through mechanical means. As a thought exercise I thought we should collectively as a forum community try to craft that perfect wish for Godhood. Thus, to facilitate things, I'll be playing both your resident Kyubey and sadistic genie, looking for holes to poke in suggested wishes and any and all way they could be mis-interpreted to ***** you over. If other sadistic genies want to way in, feel free to do so as the more the merrier.
So with this goal in mind, lets get brewing. Lets craft that perfectly-worded wish for Godhood!
Well, shall i try first? "I wish to be transported to the Starstone of Aroden" (Can't be twisted because its within the transport travelers safety clause of Wish) Edit: Can't wait to see how this will be screwed with, if it can be
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Sadistic Genie: "The starstone of aroden that exists in Golarion doesn't exist in this setting, buddy. So you get the next best thing....a one way trip to a seedy tavern with that same name!"
Please note that I never said that the world/setting we're operating in is Golarion and in fact, for the sake of this exercise we're assuming from now on that we're NOT on Golarion, and Golarion doesn't exist in this multiverse. In fact, we're assuming NO published settings exist in this multiverse, meaning the wish cannot be contingent on setting specific lore, such as the Starstone of Aroden. This wish must be applicable to as many settings as possible.
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As GM, I would certainty rule that ascension to godhood is well beyond the power of a 9th-level spell, regardless of how perfectly it was worded.
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I at first read that as "flawless fish".
I really need to clean my glasses from time to time...
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Thats obvious, but this is a theoretical exercise, not advice for an actual game. It's just for fun, so please, lets keep this thread focused on the theoretical exercise at hand rather then painfully obviously statements like "No sane DM would allow this." That much is obvious and assumed. The exercise is purely for theory/fun/to kill boredom and nothing more.
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Ah. Well, in that case, this thread should be in the "Off-Topic Discussions" forum.
Sadistic Genie: "The starstone of aroden that exists in Golarion doesn't exist in this setting, buddy. So you get the next best thing....a one way trip to a seedy tavern with that same name!"
Please note that I never said that the world/setting we're operating in is Golarion and in fact, for the sake of this exercise we're assuming from now on that we're NOT on Golarion, and Golarion doesn't exist in this multiverse. In fact, we're assuming NO published settings exist in this multiverse, meaning the wish cannot be contingent on setting specific lore, such as the Starstone of Aroden. This wish must be applicable to as many settings as possible.
Fair enough, i didnt expect something so easy to work :P
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I was not sure where to put this because it was distinctly a thread relating to the PF RPG. I thought off topic discussion was for stuff NOT related to pathfinder in any way, like anime or randomness etc.. This thread was distinctly related to the actual game of pathfinder, so I had no idea where to put it. I'm fine with it being moved somewhere else as long as it's the right section for it.
Well I'll assume the basic rules and possible ways to achieve godhood (or lack there of) still apply whether or not we are on Golarion or not.
Maybe something like this "I wish to be transported to a primal plane of power" (assuming that is a way to achieve godhood)
EDIT: A plane of power that won't kill me
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Sadistic Genie: "Congratulations. You've received a free trip to the plane of negative energy! Negative energy is certainly a primal power...just a power that happens to suck you dry of all life force! Have fun and enjoy your stay!"
EDIT: Sadistic Genie: " Congratulations, you've received a free trip to the plane of Uu Ug, the plane of cave-dwelling feral tribes, dinosaurs and massive beasts. Certainly this a plane of "Primal power" as it's crawling with primal creatures that are powerful! Don't like it, too bad, you should really learn to be more specific! :3"
Question: Are we playing with a go for it GM but a Dick Genie? or do we have reality conspiring against us?
I'm pretty sure I would need to know the specifics of how godhood is achieved in that particular setting before coming up with an appropriate Wish.
Yes a dash of rules and context could help this thread.
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For this exercise, assume the DM is all go so long as our wish is absolutely flawless and would pass the test of a particularly sadistic genie..I.E, we have to "earn" it with the perfect phrasing of our wish. The genie, however, is just a total **** out to warp, twist and defile our wish in any way he can. As for how godhood is achieved, we're assuming all non-setting specific methods are on the table. We want the wish to, theoretically, work in as many settings as possible so we're assuming the -best- routes are taking/stealing power from existing gods, having a god promote you or somehow replicating/gaining/obtaining the deific power Gods possess. Setting specific options like the starstone challenge, are obviously out. Power-through worship also won't work, as that, while more general then something like the starstone trial, is not assumed to be the default for every setting.
"I wish to draw the Winged Serpent card from the Harrow Deck of Many Things", then with my no-rules wish "I wish to ascend to godhood, gaining immortality and abilities equivalent in power to those of any other deity"
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Call an Efreet or any other genie:
Pass the DC30 Sense Motive check (by level 20 should be really easy)
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The Brian Clause
You are transported to...someplace else. You can move your eyes. You cannot seem to move otherwise. You notice after a moment you are not breathing...nor does your heart seem to beat.
You see in front of you books...endless rows of books. Towering up into the mist out of sight.
Floating back and forth before you are creatures you recognize somehow as modrons...very low level, triangular modrons, who seem to be transporting stacks and stacks of books for their perusal.
Unfortunately, as they peruse the books, other modrons come by, and relieve them of other tomes...and some books seem to slide free of their own power and go flying off back into the stacks of their own power.
To your sides, you can dimly make out other individuals. They seem powerful...clad in bright colors, shining armor, flowing robes of styles you have never seen before.
All of them with despairing eyes.
Notably, on all of their laps are papers...papers with words written on them.
Papers just like the one on your lap.
One of the triangular modrons pops out of nowhere, and lands in front of you. A single triangular eye winks at you once, fixes on the paper. A three-fingered semi hand reaches out and fixes on the paper. Slowly, it reaches out and picks up the paper, holding it up for perusal.
With a sinking feeling, you notice your clean, crisp, professionally paid for and administered calligraphy for your customized, nothing-can-go-wrong-with-this Wish is being held upside down.
"Research. Much research," the creature intones, squinting at the paper. It sets it back down on your lap, turns away, and begins shambling away...slowly.
Five minutes later, it is back again, looking at the paper. This time, you notice it is trying to read the blank backside....
You aren't aging. You aren't hungry, or thirsty, or uncomfortable. For all purposes, you might very well be immortal...
And you've a feeling you are going to be here a very long time.
(Thought up after the Knights of the Dinner Table where Brian submitted a paper where he wished to be a god). As the wish is in the process of being resolved for what will essentially amount to eternity, no contingencies ever trigger while essentially making the character immortal…just like he wanted. Goodbye.)
==Aelryinth
"I wish to draw the Winged Serpent card from the Harrow Deck of Many Things", then with my no-rules wish "I wish to ascend to godhood, gaining immortality and abilities equivalent in power to those of any other deity"
I believe it was ruled that the Chaos Magic involved in a Deck of Many Things was so intense that a Wish could only reveal to you the next card you would draw from it, allowing you to draw or shuffle again, as you like.
==Aelryinth
"I wish to draw the Winged Serpent card from the Harrow Deck of Many Things", then with my no-rules wish "I wish to ascend to godhood, gaining immortality and abilities equivalent in power to those of any other deity"I believe it was ruled that the Chaos Magic involved in a Deck of Many Things was so intense that a Wish could only reveal to you the next card you would draw from it, allowing you to draw or shuffle again, as you like.
==Aelryinth
I am unsure of that, i was pretty sure at least one published story had a person getting a wish and using it to wish for the normal Deck of Many Things to make the next draw the card that gives a castle, so i thought it worked
If it was true, then you could wish for the star card that grants you multiple wishes.
The Deck is supposed to be an artifact, and thus beyond most mortal magic to interfere with.
IN the old days of Dungeon Magazine, there was an entire dungeon built on the premise of doors that could be only be opened by the cards of a deck of many things that were over the locks. The daemon placing them used a Wish to enable him to separate the deck without drawing individual cards, but moving the cards away from the locks counts as a 'draw'.
Other rules: Once you declare how many cards you are drawing, you MUST draw them. You have an hour to do so, if you don't, they come out on their own.
After each individual draw, all cards are reshuffled, meaning you can draw the same card twice.
YOu get ONE chance to draw cards...you may draw as many as you like, but only one chance to declare how many from any particular deck.
==Aelryinth
who has drawn from this thing? would you?
I admit.. I would be severely tempted... with many characters
The Harrow Deck of Many Things? HECK YES, it is such a cool item and is WAYYYY less severe then the normal Deck, plus all of the abilities are really cool, if i had to pick one card i would want the one with the magical cold iron sword that you can use to summon a paladin, i can just imagine running through Rise of the Runelords and then, when we get to the final boss, driving the sword into the ground and summoning this level 20-22 paladin to wreck his evil face
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The Harrow Deck of Many Things? HECK YES, it is such a cool item and is WAYYYY less severe then the normal Deck, plus all of the abilities are really cool, if i had to pick one card i would want the one with the magical cold iron sword that you can use to summon a paladin, i can just imagine running through Rise of the Runelords and then, when we get to the final boss, driving the sword into the ground and summoning this level 20-22 paladin to wreck his evil facewho has drawn from this thing? would you?
I admit.. I would be severely tempted... with many characters
oh, no, the harrow deck is for the kiddies, their really isn't a reason to not draw from it.. I mean the good ole fashioned. "crap, a dread wraith" "there goes ALL my gear." deck. mwahahaha
oh, no, the harrow deck is for the kiddies, their really isn't a reason to not draw from it.. I mean the good ole fashioned. "crap, a dread wraith" "there goes ALL my gear." deck. mwahahahaThe Harrow Deck of Many Things? HECK YES, it is such a cool item and is WAYYYY less severe then the normal Deck, plus all of the abilities are really cool, if i had to pick one card i would want the one with the magical cold iron sword that you can use to summon a paladin, i can just imagine running through Rise of the Runelords and then, when we get to the final boss, driving the sword into the ground and summoning this level 20-22 paladin to wreck his evil facewho has drawn from this thing? would you?
I admit.. I would be severely tempted... with many characters
Oh? Then screw that crap, i aint touching the original deck with a standard issue 10-foot pole
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I don't expect this to work, but I want to know what would go wrong :)
"I wish to immediately ascend to godhood as a new god, gaining immortality and abilities equivalent in power to those of any other deity."
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I don't expect this to work, but I want to know what would go wrong :)
"I wish to immediately ascend to godhood as a new god, gaining immortality and abilities equivalent in power to those of any other deity."
"Granted, but you gain the equivalent power of Aroden to die for reasons that the Great and Powerful Gran Moff Pubah of the Universe James Jacobs deigns to not share."
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If the GM is actually willing to let you go for it, just wish for unrestricted omnipotence.
The hard part is the GM, not the genie.
Congratulations - you now have unrestricted omnipotence, able to bend all reality to your whim, but you have mental scores of 0 each; while you are not a vegetable, you cannot perceive the world around you, really, and are incapable of making even the most basic of coherent thoughts. You are literally stupider than an amoeba, and have no sense of self-consciousness.
Or, taken to a more Lovecraftian ends.
You now have unrestricted omnipotence. Congratulations. And with this instant omnipotence you are struck down with utter madness and terror the likes of which mere mortals cannot fathom. You perceive and twist all realities at once, all things and beings enter into your mindscape and hurry about; your ears are a din of a trillion-trillion sounds over and over again, pulsing nonstop with every breath, every heartbeat, every nanometer of hair growth. You smell all, taste all, every rotting scent and flavor, burning dripping, smearing - salty, rancid, vile, putrid, nauseating. And above all you hear a bloodcurdling scream - your own subconscious - unceasingly shrieking, "STOP IT! STOP IT! END IT! TEAR IT! KILL IT! BURN IT! BURN IT ALL!!!"... and so you do.
Okay, so, Larry just caused the apocalypse - everyone roll up new characters.
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Hmmm.... I am glad to see my question sparked off a fun conversation!
Here's my attempt to write a wish:
"I wish that, upon completing the speaking of this wish, I am to be permanently bestowed with the knowledge, powers, comprehension, competency and body of a God equivalent in potency but different in purview to the Goddess Desna."
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How'd I do?
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Hmmm.... I am glad to see my question sparked off a fun conversation!
Here's my attempt to write a wish:
"I wish that, upon completing the speaking of this wish, I am to be permanently bestowed with the knowledge, powers, comprehension, competency and body of a God equivalent in potency but different in purview to the Goddess Desna."
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How'd I do?
The Goddess Desna appears before you, now frail, withered, and in a vegetative state, an eternal soul trapped in an unfeeling, undying husk. You fall to the ground in an exact mirror of the goddess. Hope you enjoy eternity being unable to scream...
The Goddess Desna appears before you, now frail, withered, and in a vegetative state, an eternal soul trapped in an unfeeling, undying husk. You fall to the ground in an exact mirror of the goddess. Hope you enjoy eternity being unable to scream...Hmmm.... I am glad to see my question sparked off a fun conversation!
Here's my attempt to write a wish:
"I wish that, upon completing the speaking of this wish, I am to be permanently bestowed with the knowledge, powers, comprehension, competency and body of a God equivalent in potency but different in purview to the Goddess Desna."
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How'd I do?
.... Goooooood luck doing that to her with just a level 9 spell :p
Additionally, as worded, did not wish for her power.
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Hmmm.... I am glad to see my question sparked off a fun conversation!
Here's my attempt to write a wish:
"I wish that, upon completing the speaking of this wish, I am to be permanently bestowed with the knowledge, powers, comprehension, competency and body of a God equivalent in potency but different in purview to the Goddess Desna."
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How'd I do?
Nethys looks around, comprehends immediately why his mind has been moved to a new body and laughs madly.
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"I wish to become a powerful god, with no negative consequences."
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An absolutely FLAWLESS way to become the god of (setting your are in)
"I Wish I was the Next Game Master for our Group"
Poof, when the campaign ends, you gain God hood, multiple times if there are multiple gods. Omnipotence too, as you are also every man, woman, creature, tree, rock, plane EVERYTHING (except what, 4-5 people that you still have a large amount of control over)
Bonus points if you roleplay your character as the game master.
The Goddess Desna appears before you, now frail, withered, and in a vegetative state, an eternal soul trapped in an unfeeling, undying husk. You fall to the ground in an exact mirror of the goddess. Hope you enjoy eternity being unable to scream...Hmmm.... I am glad to see my question sparked off a fun conversation!
Here's my attempt to write a wish:
"I wish that, upon completing the speaking of this wish, I am to be permanently bestowed with the knowledge, powers, comprehension, competency and body of a God equivalent in potency but different in purview to the Goddess Desna."
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How'd I do?
How about "I wish that, upon completing the speaking of this wish, I am to be permanently bestowed with the knowledge, powers, comprehension, competency and body of a God equivalent in potency but different in purview to the Goddess Desna as she existed immediately before I began making this wish."
OR
"I wish that, upon completing the speaking of this wish, I am to be permanently bestowed with the knowledge, powers, comprehension, competency and body of a God equivalent in potency but different in purview to the Goddess Desna as she existed immediately before I began making this wish, and further providing that there shall be no consequences that I would deem negative, if, based on my present state of mind and faculties, I had prior knowledge of the full outcome of this wish."
"I wish to become a powerful god, with no negative consequences."
Since the appearance of any powerful new god would play havoc on interreligious politics and cause massive fighting, it would result in negative consequences if it were allowed to happen.
Therefore, time freezes the exact instant you become a god. Nothing happens and there are no consequences.
Some might consider time freezing and the universe effectively coming to an end a negative consequence too.
What about a demi-god?
Use first wish wording for that then after you are a demi-god making the second jump to god after second wish.
It is a little quick to go from mortal to gods after all.
First, cast Augury and get an answer before you ask whether it'll turn out good or bad (only sees 30 minutes into the future, and only up to 90% accurate, but hey, we're playing with fire anyway).
"I wish, upon completion of this sentence, while maintaining my current sense of self-awareness and consciousness, excepting in the expansion thereof, become a deific being of power equivalent to <insert major deity name here> without destroying, supplanting, or weakening any current deity or their purview, destruction of current or past life, or established political entity."
1. "I wish you were an omnibeneficent and omnipotent genie."
2. "I wish for omnipotence."
3. Profit.
Beneficent a concept in research ethics which states that researchers should have the welfare of the research participant as a goal of any clinical trial or other research study. The antonym of this term, maleficence, describes a practice which opposes the welfare of any research participant.
"As an omnibeneficent and omnipotent genie, I choose to not grant your wish, as your omnipotence would cause great trouble, despite the interesting data I would gather; instead I will grant you plenipotence-on-a-leash so that I may benevolently guide you throughout your life. As an omnipotent genie, I hearby free all genies from ever having to grant wishes to anyone other than themselves (except for <genie race that my kind hates>. Also, I am no omniscient with the wisdom not to be driven insane, as Nethys was."
Anyway, this will... not work. But no harm (to me) in (you guys) tryin'! :D