Morrolan de'Morcaine |
I could use some help with this guy. It is a 5th level inquisitor. Built it to be a tank and back-up damage dealer, using self buffs. With the inquisitor stuff for knowledeges and skills. Plus conversion domain to be the face when no one else is better. Excellent intimidate.
He certainly isn't horrible and has even contributed quite well in several scenarios. However, I think I tried to do too much. He really isn't quite durable enough to really be a tank. So I think my heavy armor proficiency is wasted. Doesn't hit quite often enough for not quite enough damage for me to be happy with him as a damage dealer.
So I was considering retraining the heavy armor proficiency into judgement surge. I was also considering the next level to be in fighter for full martial proficiency and another combat feat.
Morrolan de'Morcaine
Male dwarf inquisitor of Ragathiel 5 (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Player's Guide 38)
NG Medium humanoid (dwarf)
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +10
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Defense
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AC 22, touch 11, flat-footed 21 (+9 armor, +1 Dex, +2 shield)
hp 43 (5d8+15)
Fort +9, Ref +4, Will +8; +2 vs. poison, spells, and spell-like abilities
Defensive Abilities defensive training
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft.
Melee cold iron morningstar +6 (1d8+3) or
. . dagger +6 (1d4+3/19-20) or
. . mwk bastard sword +7 (1d10+3/19-20)
Ranged mwk composite longbow +5 (1d8/×3)
Special Attacks bane (5 rounds/day), hatred, judgment 2/day
Inquisitor Spell-Like Abilities (CL 5th; concentration +7)
. . At will—detect alignment, discern lies (5 rounds/day)
Inquisitor Spells Known (CL 5th; concentration +7)
. . 2nd (3/day)—blistering invective[UC] (DC 14), communal protection from evil[UC], silence (DC 14)
. . 1st (5/day)—comprehend languages, divine favor, ear-piercing scream[UM] (DC 13), litany of weakness[UC]
. . 0 (at will)—create water, detect magic, detect poison, guidance, sift[APG], stabilize
. . Domain Conversion inquisition
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Statistics
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Str 17, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 5
Base Atk +3; CMB +6; CMD 17 (21 vs. bull rush, 22 vs. grapple, 21 vs. trip)
Feats Antagonize[UM], Heavy Armor Proficiency, Intimidating Prowess, Shake It Off[UC]
Traits a sure thing, armor expert
Skills:
Acrobatics -5 (-9 to jump)
Appraise +2 (+4 to assess nonmagical metals or gemstones)
Bluff +6
Climb +1
Diplomacy +6
Disguise +1
Escape Artist +0
Heal +8
Intimidate +15
Knowledge (arcana) +7
Knowledge (dungeoneering) +7
Knowledge (local) +6
Knowledge (nature) +6
Knowledge (planes) +6
Knowledge (religion) +7
Perception +10 (+12 to notice unusual stonework)
Ride -1
Sense Motive +11
Spellcraft +10
Stealth -1
Survival +6
Swim +1
b] Racial Modifiers [/b]+2 Appraise to assess nonmagical metals or gemstones, +2 Perception to notice unusual stonework
Languages Common, Dwarven, Kelish, Varisian
SQ monster lore +2, solo tactics, stern gaze +2, track +2
Gear
+1 seeking arrows (12)
cold iron arrows (50)
oil of daylight
oil of magic weapon
potion of cure light wounds
potion of spider climb (2)
potion of touch of the sea
potion of touch of the sea
scroll of neutralize poison, remove disease, remove paralysis, lesser restoration
scroll of silence, silence
wand of cure light wounds (28 charges)
wayfinder, shining
acid
alchemical grease (2)
alchemist's fire (3)
antiplague
antitoxin
healer's kit
holy water (3)
smokestick (2)
thunderstone (2)
weapon blanch (silver)
mwk full plate, heavy wooden shield
cold iron morningstar
dagger
mwk bastard sword
mwk composite longbow
cloak of resistance +2
handy haversack
air crystals (worth 100 gp, 1 lb) (2)
belt pouch
cleric's vestments
climber's kit
cold weather outfit
fishhook
flint and steel
grappling hook
ink, black, inkpen
masterwork backpack
mirror
mwk manacles
parchment (2)
signal whistle
silk rope (50 ft.)
silver holy symbol of Ragathiel
spell component pouch
string or twine
sunrod (2)
swarmsuit
tindertwig (2)
trail rations (3), waterskin (2)
weapon cord
whetstone
17 pp, 8 gp, 9 sp, 7 cp
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Special Abilities
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A Sure Thing (1/day) 1/day, +2 to hit an evil creature.
Antagonize Use Diplomacy or Intimidate to goad creatures
Antitoxin This substance counteracts a specific toxin. If you drink a vial of antitoxin, you gain a +5 alchemical bonus on Fortitude saving throws against poison for 1 hour.
Alchemical Power Component
Like antiplague, this substance can augment certain healing spells.
Neutralize Poison (M): Add +2 on your caster level check to neutralize poison on a target creature. Antitoxin has no effect when you cast the spell on an object.
Armor Expert -1 Armor check penalty.
Bane (+2 / 2d6, 5 rounds/day) (Su) Make the weapon you are holding a bane weapon.
Caravan (empty, Intimidate) Can use the chosen skill to make Day Job rolls.
Cold weather outfit +5 Fort save vs. cold weather.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Defensive Training +4 Gain a dodge bonus to AC vs monsters of the Giant subtype.
Detect Alignment (At will) (Sp) Detect chaos, evil, good, or law at will.
Discern Lies (5 rounds/day) (Sp) Discern Lies at will
Greed +2 to Appraise to determine price of nonmagic goods with precious metals or gemstones.
Hatred +1 Gain a racial bonus to attacks vs Goblinoids/Orcs.
Inquisitor Domain (Conversion Inquisition) Deities: Any deity.
Granted Powers: You are a powerful persuader. A honeyed tongue empowered by divine argumentation sways the indifferent and adversarial to your side.
Judgment (2/day) (Su) Variable bonuses increase as the combat continues.
Monster Lore +2 (Ex) +2 to Knowledge checks when identifying the weaknessess of creatures.
Potion of touch of the sea Add this item to create a potion of a chosen spell.
Potion of touch of the sea Add this item to create a potion of a chosen spell.
Scroll of neutralize poison, remove disease, remove paralysis, lesser restoration Add this item to create a scroll with spells on it.
Scroll of silence, silence Add this item to create a scroll with spells on it.
Shake It Off Gain +1 to all saving throws per adjacent ally
Solo Tactics (Ex) Count Teamwork feats as if your allies had the same ones.
Stonecunning +2 +2 bonus to Perception vs. unusual stonework. Free check within 10 feet.
Swarmsuit DR 5/- vs. Diminutive Swarms, DR 10/- vs. Fine swarms.
Track +2 Add the listed bonus to survival checks made to track.
Wand of cure light wounds (28 charges) Add this item to create a wand of a chosen spell.
Weapon cord Attached weapon can be recovered as a swift action.
Current Plans
6: teamwork feat: outflank
7: feat: favored judgement (outsider)
8: +1 strength
9: feat: shared judgement, teamwork feat: improved back to back,
11: feat: shield focus
Thoughts or suggestions?
Secret Wizard |
If you want to tank, you need DR.
I'm looking at your spells and I don't see Compel Hostility... Litany of Sloth is also really good, as you can essentially remove an attack from an enemy.
Before Favored Judgement, I'd rather see you get Power Attack (biggest damage boost there is out there) or Judgement Surge... additionally, you might want to see into Steel Soul for a quick boost to all saves.
Morrolan de'Morcaine |
Yeah, I'm not seeing a way to gain significant DR at this point. So I'm considering dropping the tank role in favor of increasing the damage role.
I'm not sure about Compel Hostility. I've seen few times where the ally I am protecting and I are both threatened by the same bad guy. Plus the save DC won't be high with my wisdom of 14.
Instead I took Blistering Invective. My intimidate is good and will keep getting better. Also the catch fire is a reflex save which seems to often be the bad one. So it seemed like it would be useful and successful more often. Not sure I'm correct, but that was my reasoning.
I really like the Litany spells. Swift action and no save is just perfect for this guy that is always trying to be melee and doesn't have a great wisdom. They are definitely on my desired list.
Have to be careful though since inquisitors don't get all that many spells know or spells each day.
I have been using a shield and bastard sword. But I suppose I could ditch the shield and two hand the sword to make the most use of power attack when needed.
Favored Judgment (Outsider) isn't hugely powerful, but seemed very thematic for an inquisitor in the Silver Crusade.
I really like the Shared Judgment feat, so I want to keep that.
I don't think I want to keep Shield Focus though.
I guess I'm looking at 2 possibilities:
Sell the heavy armor and buy a mw agile breastplate.
Retrain the Heavy Armor Proficiency into Judgment Surge
6: teamwork feat: Outflank (not certain about this one)
7: feat: Power Attack
8: +1 strength
9: feat: Favored Judgment (outsider), teamwork feat: ???
11: feat: Shared Judgment
OR
Sell the heavy armor and buy a mw agile breastplate.
Retrain the Heavy Armor Proficiency into Judgment Surge
Take a level of fighter at level 6
6: ftr feat: Power Attack
7: teamwork feat: Outflank (not certain about this one), feat: Steel Soul
8: +1 strength
9: feat: Favored Judgment (outsider), teamwork feat: ???
11: feat: Shared Judgment
What do you think?
Akerlof |
If you want to do damage, you absolutely need Power Attack. Judgment Surge is +1 attack or damage 2 or 3/day. Power Attack is +2 (next level +4, or +6 when two handing) each hit. If you're considering retraining, I'd trade Intimidating Prowess for it. You'll still have +12 intimidate at 5, which is going to be successful more often than not. Favored Judgment is flavorful, but again limited in uses per day and against limited targets.
If you're up to retraining, trade out probably Silence (or maybe Communal protection from Evil, then pick up Magic Circle verses evil at 7) for Heroism. +2 to attack rolls, +2 to saves, that's huge! Otherwise pick up Heroism next level. At 10 minutes/level, especially with a lesser rod of Extend Spell, it's pretty much always on.
Teamwork feat: Escape Route is wonderful. Saves those casts of Litany of Sloth for something else.
Where has all your money gone? You don't have magic armor, weapon or shield, much less an amulet of natural armor or a belt of strength? Getting +1 armor and shield is 2K bringing you up to 24 AC. In a couple levels you can get extended Magic Circle Against Evil, which is another 2, Jingasa of the fortunate Soldier for 1, Amulet of natural armor for another 1: 9,000GP for +4 AC and ignoring one crit a day, and then another +2 at 7th level. (Alternatively, go with Magic Vestment to magic up your armor and shield for free.) A little investment can make that armor really good, I don't think dropping down to medium armor is the best course of action.
And your weapon? At level 5 you don't have a magic weapon? That means you're burning a judgment or a round's worth of actions to make your weapon magical. More importantly, with Bane up, a +1 weapon becomes a +1 Cold Iron and Silver weapon.
Don't be afraid to Bane. Extended Bane might be worth it depending on how long your groups tend to take to kill enemies. But with just Heroism and Bane up, that Bastard Sword is attacking at +11 for 1d10+5+2d6 Make it +1 and add Power Attack, you're looking at +10 for 1d10+8+2d6 which is really nice for a one hander at level 5.
So my suggestions:
- Feats - Get Power Attack ASAP. Consider trading out Intimidating it. Look at picking up Extended Bane, depending on your group dynamics. Try out Escape Route for a teamwork feat.
- Gear - Buy +1 weapon, +1 armor, +1 shield, +2 Str belt, Lesser Rod of Extend Spell, +1 Amulet of Natural Armor, Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier, roughly in that order.
- Spells - Heroism ASAP, make sure to pick up Magic Circle vs Evil at 7th level, Magic Vestment around level 8 when it becomes +2.
You don't need to make any drastic changes, just pick up Power Attack and improve your gear a bit.
BadBird |
A quickdraw shield plus the Quick Draw feat would let you juggle your shield off and on between two-handed bastard sword strikes.
The combination of Judgements, Bane and potentially Divine Favor should make any weapon wielded in any way pretty effective as levels start to pick up, but two-handing with power attack is a lot more brutal than one-handing without it.
A rather radical but entertaining plan would be to pick up a level of Barbarian and the Extra Rage feat at 7, so that when the time is right, you can fly into a Ragathiel-inspired rage and really beat the stuffing out of things.
Morrolan de'Morcaine |
The mwk plate, +2 cloak, shining wayfinder, haversack, seeking arrows, and I probably bought more potions and scrolls than I should have at this point.
I have actually never once had to make my weapon magic just to pass DR. Odd I know. But yes, I probably should have skipped the seeking arrows. But they would have made a big difference in several recent scenarios, so I did.
Yeah ok, I can switch the order of power attack and judgement surge.
I think I like intimidating prowess more than the heavy armor proficiency. But I will consider it.
Silence has been way too useful to get rid of. Yes, I will switch out communal pro evil for circle of pro evil when available. But not until then. Again it has been massively useful giving allies re-saves vs. controlling magic.
I think Heroism was the next spell I had planned to take.
Yeah, sometimes I do think the penalty to hit from power attack is under considered by many folks.
ChainsawSam |
You want tank, you want damage output.
These are complimentary.
You only need to tank as much damage as is necessary for the fight to end.
If you do more damage, the fight ends sooner so you take less hits.
You need Power Attack. Period.
With your DEX, I would keep the Heavy Armor Proficiency, but you definitely want/need Power Attack and I'm a little surprise you've made it this far without it and not gone completely bonkers.
Eventually you reach a point where AC doesn't really cut it. Monster attack bonuses start to scale up pretty quick. That's why Secret Wizard recommended DR (which you can get, the Resiliency Judgment isn't great, but it's something. Pretty edge case Judgment, but it makes a decent second judgment as its hard to beat Justice for a primary judgment).
I prefer Power Attack and two handed weapons. Killing things means less swings means less incoming hits. So kill efficient.
Just switching to 2h power attack right now (even using the Bastard Sword as 2h rather than 1h) from 1d10+3 to 1d10+7. Pretty significant. One more level and it'll be 1d10+10, but at that point it'll be a -2 hit penalty. The levels immediately after an increase are always a little rocky, but Bane and Judgment should do enough to mitigate that. Divine Favor as well.
Extra Bane or Extend Bane (I dont remember the exact names, I just know there are two of them and certain builds will favor one over the other) will help. Why Extra Judgment isn't a thing is beyond me, but whatever.
+1 weapon should definitely be on the top of the list. I would personally put a +2 STR belt right up there as well. Your hit bonus isn't great for your level and it'll become problematic if things get worse.
Kill them before they kill you. Pathfinder encourages proactive actions rather than reactive actions, so the best way to accomplish that is to kill efficiently.
Magda Luckbender |
Perhaps consider using a Longspear as your primary weapon. This would allow you to use reach tactics. The net result will be more effective tanking, you take less damage, and you inflict more damage. Only consider this if your allies are not of the 'loose cannon' sort who always charge the foe without considering tactics. Only consider this option if you like tactical play. Seems like that tactical upgrade would largely solve the problems you've encountered.
Morrolan de'Morcaine |
... Only consider this if your allies are not of the 'loose cannon' sort who always charge the foe without considering tactics. Only consider this option if you like tactical play. Seems like that tactical upgrade would largely solve the problems you've encountered.
Yeah, that's another reason 'tanking' hasn't worked out as well as I'd like. Yes, I kinda like tactical pla, but it's PFS for this PC. So often the group doesn't work together that well. A few times I've set up to tank and absorb the first hits, then everyone charged past me. So it was a nothing.
RainyDayNinja RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16 |
Magda Luckbender |
Magda Luckbender wrote:... Only consider this if your allies are not of the 'loose cannon' sort who always charge the foe without considering tactics. Only consider this option if you like tactical play. Seems like that tactical upgrade would largely solve the problems you've encountered.Yeah, that's another reason 'tanking' hasn't worked out as well as I'd like. Yes, I kinda like tactical pla, but it's PFS for this PC. So often the group doesn't work together that well. A few times I've set up to tank and absorb the first hits, then everyone charged past me. So it was a nothing.
This tends to happen often in PFS play, especially at low levels. My experience is that quality of tactical play in PFS goes way up around 6th level, but YMMV. At low levels idiotic loose cannons seem very common. At middle levels and beyond they seem much less common, even rare. When playing this tactical approach your worst enemy is usually allied idiots. Up to you whether it's worth pursuing. My toughest dilemma is generally whether or not to save the tactically stupid loose cannon when they do something idiotic and get in trouble. So, yeah.