[PFS CORE] Gnome Illusionist?


Advice

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I'm playing my first Core PFS game this weekend, and I'm looking for a character idea I like. I'd like to play a spellcaster, because it seems the local Core population is heavily weighted toward melee, and I'm leaning toward illusion. I've never played a Gnome, so this looks like a perfect opportunity for that. I'm not quite sure whether to build him as a wizard or sorcerer, though:

Wizard (Illusionist)
6/14/14/18/12/9
Traits: Reactionary, Wisdom in the Flesh (Swim)
Opposition Schools: Evocation, Conjuration
1: Spell Focus (illusion), Toughness
3: Greater Spell Focus (illusion)
5: Improved Initiative, ??? Metamagic Feat
7: Spell Focus (necromancy)
9: Greater Spell Focus (necromancy)
10: Quicken Spell
11: ???

Sorcerer (arcane)
6/14/14/12/10/19
Traits: Reactionary, ???
1: Spell Focus (illusion)
3: Toughness
5: Greater Spell Focus (illusion)
7: Improved Initiative, Spell Focus (necromancy)
9: Quicken Spell
11: Greater Spell Focus (necromancy)

They've each got their advantages...

Wizard
-More flexible and versatile
-More skill points and better Knowledges
-More bonus feats, and faster feat progression
-Faster spell access
-Good school powers

Sorcerer
-Leverages racial Charisma bonus for higher DCs
-Better Bluff skills to complement illusions
-More total spells
-I don't have another Sorcerer in PFS already (I have a Conjurer wizard planned)
-No opposition schools

So I'm torn. Anyone have tie-breaker points to pitch in? Or tweaks to consider in the builds? Or general advice on how to use illusions effectively?


Another alternative is Bard. They have most of the illusion and enchantment spells but no real damage spells. This also gives you a more skill points and a bunch of other abilities.

Sovereign Court

I have a gnome sorceror in PFS based around illusion. Expect some table variation on Silent Image etc.

At level 3 - his DC for illusions is 19.

The one thing that I've had no issues with (and is always useful) - put the enemies in boxes/cages (vary depending upon whether they have ranged attacked) and let your party take apart the enemy group piecemeal. It works on everything that isn't blind. (Even mindless things. You may have to show some GMs that figments aren't on the list that mindless things are immune to.)

A few will pass their saves eventually (they get one a round) - and you have to spend every turn concentrating - but it is quite helpful.

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Mysterious Stranger wrote:
Another alternative is Bard. They have most of the illusion and enchantment spells but no real damage spells. This also gives you a more skill points and a bunch of other abilities.

That's true, but I already have a vanilla support bard, and I don't want to cover too much old ground. But if it ends up having enough going for it...

Grand Lodge

Sorcerer. Shadow Conjuration and Evocation should be bread and butter spells for you. Might as well be able to cast them more often.

Tho IDK if Quicken spell is really worth it. I typically do not take it till 11+ on any caster...I typically do dazing spell at 11 and quicken spell at 13. By then those quickened 1st-2nd level spells are not taking up my most powerful spell slots. I know Dazing isn't Core but the +3 level increase is what I am trying to imply. You're going to top out at 5th level spells. I wouldn't waste them on Quickened...perhaps heightened tho..

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Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

Sorcerer. Shadow Conjuration and Evocation should be bread and butter spells for you. Might as well be able to cast them more often.

Tho IDK if Quicken spell is really worth it. I typically do not take it till 11+ on any caster...I typically do dazing spell at 11 and quicken spell at 13. By then those quickened 1st-2nd level spells are not taking up my most powerful spell slots. I know Dazing isn't Core but the +3 level increase is what I am trying to imply. You're going to top out at 5th level spells. I wouldn't waste them on Quickened...perhaps heightened tho..

I can see having the Shadow spells available as a swiss-army knife (maybe prep one each as a wizard), but if I wanted to spam those, why not just specialize in Evocation or Conjuration in the first place? Is there something I'm missing that makes it worth the higher spell level and added chance to disbelieve?

I was thinking Quickened True Strikes to go with the odd ray spell such as Enervation. Is that a bad idea? And on a wizard, a Quickened Mirror Image at 11th level could be worthwhile.

Grand Lodge

Mirror image is a Minutes per level buff...Like mage armor you should have it up when entering an area you expect combat. At 11th level you're looking at 11 minutes...or 22 minutes with a rod of lesser extend spell. When I play a caster I rarely get caught off guard unbuffed. And if I am I swiftly go Invisible/vanish and then throw down a buff (usually fly followed by a summoning spell). Or I already am Invisible as I tend to Bonded object ring and make it a ring of Invisibility asap.

I was thinking more Enervate, Quickened Ray of enfeeblement (or save style spell). Since enervate lowers saves and touch AC is an average of 12.

You take those spells because you have a limited list as a sorcerer. You couldn't take Summon Monster 3 but you can still cast something with a chance to do the same effect at your Illusion DC (which should be pretty high) Goes for the other spell...Perhaps you took fireball but atm you need a Ice storm. They still have a chance to take full damage if they fail. But if they pass they still take 20% Illusions are save or suck anyways. I figured you would have came to terms with that by now.

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Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

Mirror image is a Minutes per level buff...Like mage armor you should have it up when entering an area you expect combat. At 11th level you're looking at 11 minutes...or 22 minutes with a rod of lesser extend spell. When I play a caster I rarely get caught off guard unbuffed. And if I am I swiftly go Invisible/vanish and then throw down a buff (usually fly followed by a summoning spell). Or I already am Invisible as I tend to Bonded object ring and make it a ring of Invisibility asap.

I was thinking more Enervate, Quickened Ray of enfeeblement (or save style spell). Since enervate lowers saves and touch AC is an average of 12.

You take those spells because you have a limited list as a sorcerer. You couldn't take Summon Monster 3 but you can still cast something with a chance to do the same effect at your Illusion DC (which should be pretty high) Goes for the other spell...Perhaps you took fireball but atm you need a Ice storm. They still have a chance to take full damage if they fail. But if they pass they still take 20% Illusions are save or suck anyways. I figured you would have came to terms with that by now.

Yeah, you're probably right about Quicken Spell.

I've never played a full arcane caster before, so I'm not quite used to that level of pre-buffing; my cleric (now level 12) didn't have those kind of options.

I definitely see the advantage of versatility in the Shadow spells, and would definitely take them as a Sorcerer and prep some as a Wizard, but I imagined using Image spells to control the battlefield through trickery. Is that a bad plan?


Depends on the GM. Illusion spells can be incredibly powerful with an inventive player and a permissive GM, but with a GM who isn't willing to let a character use their spells to 'ruin' encounters, you'll just have NPCs essentially ignoring the images and doing what they wanted to. I also would be hesitant to use them too much since most image spells have a duration of Concentration and in core you have no access to the feat that allows you to maintain easier (Effortless Trickery iirc).


Go wizard. At 8th level the illusion school will permit your character to use quickened improved invisibility multiple times a day, which would be insanely good for any character, but is especially useful to conceal from spellcraft trained targets the illusory nature of the spells your character casts.

Also, the first level power of the illusion school extends the duration of figments beyond concentration. Very handy.

Being a sorcerer will give you more charisma for use with Disguise and Bluff, two very handy skills for illusionists, but as a high-intelligence wizard you can pump skill points into them for much the same result. (Consider using traits to get those skills and perhaps Stealth trained).

Best of all, a wizard can respond to PFS table variance by switching up spells prepared. Before play starts, ask your GM a few questions about how she adjudicates figments, then select your spells accordingly. If she seems like she will reward inventive play, prepare lots of figments. If she seems like she’ll hamstring figments, fill your normal spell slots with non-illusions and your school slots with glamers, shadows and patterns that involve no interpretation on the GM’s part.

Silver Crusade

honestly the only thing a wizard will have over a bard illusionist is versatility, and about 2 more spells per day.

Sovereign Court

I prefer sorceror because of the higher DCs.

Also - you can often get the GM to let you do more with the image spells when they're iffy by asking, "bluff check to convince them it's real?". With the sorceror's charisma - the check should be all but a foregone conclusion.


I'd cast my vote for sorcerer as well. If you haven't read the guide on shadow evocation and conjuration, look them up. They're on the Guide to the Class Guides thread. You can do a whole lot more with them than I realized. Forget summon monster spells, a gnome sorcerer with the illusion feats can cast devastating grease spells with super high DCs, keeping the spell relevant much later in the game. There are lots of other things to do with it as well. Plus, as an arcane sorcerer you can boost DCS even higher with your bloodline features.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
RainyDayNinja wrote:

...

Traits: Reactionary, Wisdom in the Flesh (Swim)

I think you will find that that trait is not in the traits web enhancement, and therefore not allowed in core.

I recommend Focused Mind, because +2 to all concentration checks never hurts.

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Arutema wrote:
RainyDayNinja wrote:

...

Traits: Reactionary, Wisdom in the Flesh (Swim)

I think you will find that that trait is not in the traits web enhancement, and therefore not allowed in core.

Huh. I never downloaded it; I just assumed it had pretty much everything in the APG. Yeah, I'll probably go with Focused Mind then.


Of topic; does anyone know if the traits from the Guide to Organized play are legal as well as the web enhancement traits? I just made my halfling reach ranger and I wasn't sure if it was allowed or not.

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