Antimagic Field and familiars

[Tinalles]

The Antimagic Field does not have a "Target" line; it has an "Area" line:

PRD wrote:

Area 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you

(source)

Question: does the "you" in the Area line allow a wizard to designate his familiar as the point of origin for the emanation?

Because that would be super-useful. Cast Antimagic Field on your familiar and have it go hang out with the fighter.

[Buri Reborn]

AmFs are disastrous to most characters of any significant level. So, be careful with that tactic. However, it'd be hilarious to have such a familiar fly around enemies keeping them denied magical support. Make it an invisible familiar with quicken spell or somesuch.

[LazarX]

Tinalles wrote:

The Antimagic Field does not have a "Target" line; it has an "Area" line:

PRD wrote:

Area 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you

(source)

Question: does the "you" in the Area line allow a wizard to designate his familiar as the point of origin for the emanation?

Because that would be super-useful. Cast Antimagic Field on your familiar and have it go hang out with the fighter.

Emanation spells are not personal spells. The only spells you can share with your familiar are those that have "personal" as range or "You" as target.

[Kayerloth]

Buri Reborn wrote:

AmFs are disastrous to most characters of any significant level. So, be careful with that tactic. However, it'd be hilarious to have such a familiar fly around enemies keeping them denied magical support. Make it an invisible familiar with quicken spell or somesuch.

Amusing as that thought is

1) Familiar (or at least any typical one) won't be able to be invisible in an AMF for obvious reasons.
2) And has the additional drawback of suppressing several other benefits of the familiar-wizard arcane bond. No Share Spells, No Empathic Link, No Scrying on the familiar etc.
3) And of course the familiar would be totally shielding the target from any spells the Wizard might have otherwise used on him be it buffs on the fighter or attacks/debuffs on the foe.

Never mind that you are dead on about it typically being a really bad idea for most characters to be caught in an AMF in terms of their 'power' from suppressing all their personal magic items and spells.

[Cleanthes]

Re: the advisability of using AmFs, it depends, right? If the big bad is a caster like a wizard who has no other way of hurting you other than his spells, it may well be a huge net gain to cast AmF, on yourself or (if it's in fact allowable) your familiar, get in close to the caster, and then let your martial types walk up to him and beat the tar out of him while he can only stand there and take it.

[Cleanthes]

Also, is this maybe a work-around for getting an AmF on a familiar? Scribe a scroll of AmF, make sure your familiar has a high Use Magic Device skill, and have the familiar cast it from the scroll. No reason that wouldn't work, provided a high enough UMD roll, right?

[Jokem]

LazarX wrote:

Tinalles wrote:

The Antimagic Field does not have a "Target" line; it has an "Area" line:

PRD wrote:

Area 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you

(source)

Question: does the "you" in the Area line allow a wizard to designate his familiar as the point of origin for the emanation?

Because that would be super-useful. Cast Antimagic Field on your familiar and have it go hang out with the fighter.

Emanation spells are not personal spells. The only spells you can share with your familiar are those that have "personal" as range or "You" as target.

So 'centered on you' is not the same as 'you' as a target?

[Rogar Stonebow]

AmF isn't really that bad of a spell to deal with.

Greater Spell Immunity defeats AmF pretty easily. Every High level caster should have it. Especially any full caster types who are the BBEG

[Kayerloth]

Jokem wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Tinalles wrote:

The Antimagic Field does not have a "Target" line; it has an "Area" line:

PRD wrote:

Area 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you

(source)

Question: does the "you" in the Area line allow a wizard to designate his familiar as the point of origin for the emanation?

Because that would be super-useful. Cast Antimagic Field on your familiar and have it go hang out with the fighter.

Emanation spells are not personal spells. The only spells you can share with your familiar are those that have "personal" as range or "You" as target.

So 'centered on you' is not the same as 'you' as a target?

Yes that is what I believe LazarX is saying and I believe he is correct that is the RAI and RAW though it could be more clearly stated as such. Ultimately as with many things it is up to the individual GM to declare. But in Share Spells it says "may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his familiar (as a touch spell) instead of on himself" which to me clearly implies the wizard is using a 'Range: touch' spell targeting the familiar rather than himself ... one can cast an AMF without ever having to designate a target to touch. Note the text never actually says anything about personal spells only spells that include a target 'you' (just, AFAIK, all personal spells also include a 'Target You' line, for example, the Shield spell)

@Cleanthes, Yes having the familiar use UMD would allow it to be the flying (or hopping/crawling/walking) AMF of doom as the spell would then emanate from the familiar. Though again that may or may not have some undesirable side effects on the wizard-familiar bond. And yes in some very specific cases it may be more detrimental to the foe than the wizard or familiar but most creatures are far less 'buffed' by magical items and spells than the typical character and therefore tend to suffer less.

And yes AMF shouldn't be a complete disaster to any well prepared higher level pure caster but it certainly can be very annoying and limit ones options. I'd be sure to carefully read over exactly what having Greater Spell Immunity-Antimagic Field means however (and be sure your GM is on the same page). It's a long way from I now get to keep all my doodads and act like my buffs keep working. A Ring of Counterspells or something similar is probably a much better potential solution if you are really worried about getting messed up by an AMF.

[Gisher]

Cleanthes wrote:

Also, is this maybe a work-around for getting an AmF on a familiar? Scribe a scroll of AmF, make sure your familiar has a high Use Magic Device skill, and have the familiar cast it from the scroll. No reason that wouldn't work, provided a high enough UMD roll, right?

Dip 2 levels of Arcane Archer. Use Imbue Arrow to place AMF on a Dye Arrow. Shoot your familiar.

[Snowblind]

Rogar Stonebow wrote:

AmF isn't really that bad of a spell to deal with.

Greater Spell Immunity defeats AmF pretty easily. Every High level caster should have it. Especially any full caster types who are the BBEG

How does Spell Immunity do anything?

The only time AMF cares about spell resistance is if it is cast while a summoned creature is within it's area.

How does having an unbeatable spell resistance help you when dealing with something that never needs to make an SR check against your SR?

Since AMF doesn't even have a target, a ring of counterspells doesn't do anything either.

I actually don't know of any way of trivializing AMF before Spellbane.

I guess if you are desperate you could spam souped up lesser orbs of snow, but that is more of a workaround than a straight up eff you to an AMF user.

[Rogar Stonebow]

Snowblind wrote:

Rogar Stonebow wrote:

AmF isn't really that bad of a spell to deal with.

Greater Spell Immunity defeats AmF pretty easily. Every High level caster should have it. Especially any full caster types who are the BBEG

How does Spell Immunity do anything?

The only time AMF cares about spell resistance is if it is cast while a summoned creature is within it's area.

How does having an unbeatable spell resistance help you when dealing with something that never needs to make an SR check against your SR?

Since AMF doesn't even have a target, a ring of counterspells doesn't do anything either.

I actually don't know of any way of trivializing AMF before Spellbane.

I guess if you are desperate you could spam souped up lesser orbs of snow, but that is more of a workaround than a straight up eff you to an AMF user.

I was under the impression anything with spell resistance Could stop it.

[Snowblind]

Rogar Stonebow wrote:

...

I was under the impression anything with spell resistance Could stop it.

Antimagic Field

AMF Effect

Effect rules wrote:

Range 10 ft.

Area 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you
Duration 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance see text

The only part of AMF that mentions SR

AMF rules wrote:

Summoned creatures of any type wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature's spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)

The only time an AMF caster ever needs to make an SR roll is when they cast AMF in an area occupied by summons.

[Kayerloth]

Quote:

Since AMF doesn't even have a target, a ring of counterspells doesn't do anything either.

Oops.

The rest of what is mentioned was what I was thinking about when I mentioned reading over AMF carefully (something I neglected to do when glancing back at a Ring of Counterspells).

Wall of Force or Prismatic Wall might block the approach of an AMF user since they are uneffected by the AMF or trap them between terrain and the Wall. Similarly a Forcecube might be employed though dropping one around the AMF user (vs using it around oneself for protection) is probably pushing the limits on accurate and precise positioning without using Widen.

My Loremaster would probably look to drop some terrain on the foe with a well placed Disintegrate or Transmute Rock to Mud or perhaps Telekinesis while staying clear of the AMF as much as possible. And if he knew in advance his foe favored using AMF probably try to arrange to have a golem or two along if possible.