Gunpowder?

[Judas Nevermore]

Are guns or firearms of any type mentioned in this Adventure path? Would it be out of the ordinary for a Gunslinger to be one of the adventurers?

[J-Bone]

Taking a Gunslinger into Giantslayer is probably going to put the game into God mode as the Giants touch AC are absolutely terrible, and so are Dragons which are hinted play a role later on.

[leo1925]

That's pretty much true for almost every AP but more so for this one.

[Gullyble Dwarf - Lvl 7 DM]

Gunslingers in Golarion are out of the ordinary. Golarion is emerging firearms with by far the largest concentration in the Mana Wastes/Alkenstar. As pretty much the only producer of said weapons, Alkenstar controls who they wish to deal with as far as sales of firearms trying to keep them in house for the most part from what I remember reading.

So is it possible, sure. Unlikely to be a local from the area, but it's possible, just not probable. This assumes my memory is correct, of course.

[ElyasRavenwood]

Gullyble Dwarf I think is right. Most likely your character will have the only fire arm for hundreds of miles around.

In my home campaigns, because I dislike the inclusion of super science and guns, i have the technic blow up silver mount, and the people in Alkenstar blow themselves up as well. so neither super sciience nor guns are available.

But that is simply a matter of my personal preference. Alkenstar and Numeria is there for people who like to have those things included in their game,

[Neongelion]

ElyasRavenwood wrote:

Gullyble Dwarf I think is right. Most likely your character will have the only fire arm for hundreds of miles around.

In my home campaigns, because I dislike the inclusion of super science and guns, i have the technic blow up silver mount, and the people in Alkenstar blow themselves up as well. so neither super sciience nor guns are available.

But that is simply a matter of my personal preference. Alkenstar and Numeria is there for people who like to have those things included in their game,

I never quite got why people choose to provide in-game reasons as to why certain elements of Golarion don't exist in their home games. It's already a kitchen sink setting so in my opinion there's no real need to have, say, Cheliax sinks into the ocean if you don't want it in your game for whatever reason. Isn't it sufficient to just say "no, all firearms are banned, and everything in Numeria-related products are banned" and have neither of those elements ever show up in your game?

Of course it's your game, and I don't mean to come off as nosing into what you prefer and don't prefer, just curious.

[Tangent101]

There is a simple method of ensuring that guns aren't a huge problem in your game. Just modify the Gunslinger so that either they can't use Grit to extend their touch-AC range modifier, or double the cost and make it so they must spend a minimum of one point of their own Grit to extend touch AC range modifiers. And also don't allow Advanced firearms.

The end result is a gunslinger who is forced to either use a musket or the like to have any appreciable range AC ability, or be within ten feet of a giant when using their gun.

Further, you can send swarms of smaller foes to go after the Gunslinger. Giants aren't dumb. They will realize how dangerous guns are to them. So any divine or arcane spellcasters among the Giants can use Monster Summoning spells to drop enemies right on top of the Gunslinger.

Gunslingers are not unbeatable. You just have to target their weaknesses. And their weaknesses include the expense of gunpowder and ammunition over time and how this can bankrupt a gunslinger when faced with swarm tactics. (Not to mention you can even start having Giants wearing specialty magic items meant to deflect bullets. If they're facing guns a lot... then they're going to protect themselves from guns.)

[J-Bone]

Sunder attacks against guns can also help alot especially given the high CMBs of the Giants

[kirkspencer]

I intend to allow firearms (emerging) in my run.

The thing is, they won't only be in the hands of the players if that happens.

[winddrake]

Every time someone fires a bullet, they're basically firing 11g at the enemy. Since APs presume a party of 4 or 5, there is a finite amount of gold that exists within the AP that the players can find. Unless the gunslinger goes out of their way to get a caster to use the Abundant Ammo spell, they're burning a lot of money each combat to play their character.

I normally don't have PCs track their arrows, bolts or sling bullets because the cost is ineligible, and its not very heroic; but any gun-user, I'd require to track and acquire their bullets / powder in game. Even more so if they're using alchemical cartrigates.

There is a literal gold cost to playing this kind of character on the low-end of the character progression track, and both the GM and player need to enforce this when dealing with 'emergent / early firearms' setting rules.

[J-Bone]

Winddrake is so right about Gunslingers cost. When I played a pistelero Gunslinger in PFS I was getting to a cost point of around 1,000 GP per session by lvl 12. Of course I was two weapon firing and all that but still, big time expensive.

[shadram]

Doesn't Gunsmithing mitigate that cost? Gunslingers get it for free at first level, and it makes ammo craftable at 10% of the normal cost, so 1.1gp per shot.

At least, that's how I've been running the Gunslinger in my home campaign... am I doing it wrong? :s

[winddrake]

Hi Shadram, you're totally right. With gunsmithing, the gold costs are greatly diminished. I had forgotten about this feat; without a class or archetype getting it for free, guns becomes really really feat intensive.

[J-Bone]

Yeah Gunsmithing helps in that regard but to make the Gunslinger viable you really need the alchemical cartridges. That bumps up the cost a bit.