Why Are Crocodile Companions So Tiny?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


The default crocodile monster is Large. The saltwater crocodile is Huge.

The animal companion is Small, gaining Medium size at fourth level. Why? Is the crocodile companion really so powerful that making him Large would blow everything else out of the water?

I wouldn't really care, but I actually had a kinda fun idea for a mammoth rider with a saltwater croc. I'm curious why this was selected.


Because Paizo hates all the non-cat Animal Companions.

Hence the Bear and Crocodile sucking so hard.


Non-at?

Liberty's Edge

Non-cat. Anything that isn't a cat or a dinosaur gets ignored pretty hard when it comes to Paizo animal companion design.


Kobold Cleaver wrote:

The default crocodile monster is Large. The saltwater crocodile is Huge.

The animal companion is Small, gaining Medium size at fourth level. Why? Is the crocodile companion really so powerful that making him Large would blow everything else out of the water?

I wouldn't really care, but I actually had a kinda fun idea for a mammoth rider with a saltwater croc. I'm curious why this was selected.

Mechanically, size increases come with a certain set of bonuses. As well as combat advantages (CMB/CMD to name the most common). Toss in the fact that most animals have certain EX abilities like trip or grab, and that makes a difference. Especially when the vast amount of low level opponents will be of the medium size category. So it really comes down to a balance issue. As is, if you seriously compare most animal companions they are often "lite" versions of the normal animals for that reason. They usually don't have anywhere near the same attributes.


Of course, Skylancer, but creatures that are normally Large or above usually make it to Large in the animal companion version, since it's not gamebreaking.

Crocodiles get two abilities: Death Roll and Grab. In exchange, they're stuck with a mediocre single attack (and later another equally mediocre single attack that is kept separate because ——————) and don't even get remotely matched to their ordinary size.


I felt like crocs having only one attack should be large. Deathroll is nice but its not good enough to keep the croc as a medium sized animal.


Compare them with t-rexes. The t-rex is still stuck with a single attack, but it gets the same Grab attack, higher strength, better damage dice, better natural armor and Dex, and Powerful Bite.

I guess what we take from this is...

...yay dinosaurs?


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Alligators/Crocodiles >>> Dinosaurs (in my heart).

Seriously though, crocs and gators survived the mass extinction event.

Crocs/Gators: 1
Dinosaurs: -100000000


Technically, birds are dinosaurs, so I think dinosaurs still won that. But if you pit a pigeon against a crocodile, I think the matter can be settled pretty quickly. Crocodiles and alligators wiped out all dinosaurs but the birds, which were spared because they amused the mighty crocs.

Liberty's Edge

Kobold Cleaver wrote:
...yay dinosaurs?
Feral wrote:
Non-cat. Anything that isn't a cat or a dinosaur gets ignored pretty hard when it comes to Paizo animal companion design.

Ahem.


How is that contradicting you in any way? :P

Liberty's Edge

It's not. I was QFTing myself. =)


Rynjin wrote:

Alligators/Crocodiles >>> Dinosaurs (in my heart).

Seriously though, crocs and gators survived the mass extinction event.

Crocs/Gators: 1
Dinosaurs: -100000000

I'm not so sure...Crocs/Gators are rather filthy beasts aren't they?


So you can still flush them down the toilet


Vendrick El'druin wrote:
Rynjin wrote:

Alligators/Crocodiles >>> Dinosaurs (in my heart).

Seriously though, crocs and gators survived the mass extinction event.

Crocs/Gators: 1
Dinosaurs: -100000000

I'm not so sure...Crocs/Gators are rather filthy beasts aren't they?

You take that back.

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