Gonzo 2 [Contest] [Little Red]


Product Discussion


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Ok so we just told you about what we are launching this weekend (see this thread) but in THIS thread I am going to talk about what is coming up! So we heard from you guys that you LOVED Gonzo so we have been working hard for months now on Gonzo 2. We have some FANTASTIC stuff lined up (“dynamancers”, card sharks, navi, tower defense style classes, magic girls, multi-men, strung-out disney princess warrior women, etc) but we want YOUR help to make this book ever better!

We are opening our doors to submissions on this book, so pitch us your craziest, most off-the-wall, insane, base class ideas because we want to hear them! It will be paid at a flat rate if it is accepted. We are determining that but it looks like about $70ish, as it is about 3,500 words at .02 c per word. Submission does not guarantee acceptance and payment will only be made once the finalized draft has been accepted by both the design lead (Dayton Johnson) and the producer (Scott Gladstein). Final price and whatnot are still up in the air a bit and can be negotiated.

Submissions can be done in a “pitch” format so long are you are descriptive of both your mechanics and lore. This means while we don’t need to see a finished, polished, piece of work- we do need to probably see 2 or more paragraphs on what you’d like to submit. It should include an overview of the background/lore/inspirations of your base class. It needs to also include a mechanical overview, including the implementation of said mechanics (saying “he breathes fire” is not acceptable. Saying “He can breath a 30 ft. cone of fire that deals 1d6 damage per 2 levels of this class once per day per Charisma modifier as a standard action and creatures in the area of that cone get a Reflex safe for half damage.” is correct),

You can submit regardless of your status as a publisher or indie.

Please send your submissions to ScottGladstein@LittleRedGoblinGames.com. We will be accepting pitches on this until the 31st of March. Pitches made after that will not be accepted.


Sent


Any preferred document formats?


Email for the pitch.
When it comes to a final submission, we have a Google doc template we will send you.


I'd have given this a go, but when I see "base class" and a word count that isn't five digits, I honestly don't know what to do.


Rough but worst-case word counts from copying and pasting the APG base classes, tables and all, from the PRD:

Inquisitor: 3,393
Cavalier: 4,600
Alchemist: 4,988
Witch: 5,491
Summoner: 9,163
Oracle: 11,063

The Oracle spends nearly 9,000 words on mysteries, and the Summoner uses nearly 6,000 words on eidolons. Without the sample orders, the Cavalier is only about 1,750 words.


Now do cleric. ;)

Anyway, I have a funny idea I'm going to submit.


Again, things are open to negotiation. Thus far of the 7 we have had submitted we have not accepted any.


Garrett Guillotte wrote:

Rough but worst-case word counts from copying and pasting the APG base classes, tables and all, from the PRD:

Inquisitor: 3,393
Cavalier: 4,600
Alchemist: 4,988
Witch: 5,491
Summoner: 9,163
Oracle: 11,063

The Oracle spends nearly 9,000 words on mysteries, and the Summoner uses nearly 6,000 words on eidolons. Without the sample orders, the Cavalier is only about 1,750 words.

Most of Bradley's base classes, however, introduce completely new subsystems. Imagine if you included all the rules for Vancian casting in the wizard class. What would the word count for the 'wizard' be? A lot more than 10,000. That's what Bradley's base classes are like, except with Vancian casting replaced by whatever new subsytem he created.


Most of ours, including tables, and in our formatting style (which makes use of various heading styles) clock in at around 10 pages (+ or - 2 or 3). I think the archon prestige class was the longest "single" class which was like 26 pages or something? (It was basically a catch all racial paragon) That is not including stuff like the magic section for magic classes.


TarkXT wrote:
Now do cleric. ;)

You jest, but the cleric's still only around 7,800 words, domains included.

137ben wrote:
Most of Bradley's base classes, however, introduce completely new subsystems.

I know, I'm just wonky about context.


Hey guys!

So after the first week, we've got 12 pitches! WOW! Kepp 'em coming!


Dotted for later perusal.


^ what s/he said ^

Grand Lodge

^ What they said.


I'm a man.


Libertad wrote:
I'm a man.

?


Little Red Goblin Games wrote:
Libertad wrote:
I'm a man.
?

Is in response to Orthos post:

Orthos wrote:
^ what s/he said ^


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
Little Red Goblin Games wrote:
Libertad wrote:
I'm a man.
?

Is in response to Orthos post:

Orthos wrote:
^ what s/he said ^

Ahh. Makes more sense now lol


Garrett Guillotte wrote:
TarkXT wrote:
Now do cleric. ;)

You jest, but the cleric's still only around 7,800 words, domains included.

I'll get you next time you cheeky owl!

Anyway, submission sent.

I orginally wanted to do a Skinwalker class.

That is a Full bab class that transformed into things that it previously killed and ate the hearts of.

Then I witnessed what a tired giddy woman and a laser pointer can do to a trio of 12-15lb. cats.

Grand Lodge

How serious or goofy a concept are the classes supposed to be? I mean, magical girls and multi-men? Are we designing classes that mimic a 20 level power ranger or X-man? Like, would I be doing up a 20 level build for a Wolverine clone with regeneration, scent, and claws? Or is this more along the lines of a serious class that you can honestly see standing side-by-side your standard party build (fighter, mage, rogue, healer) without any tongue-in-cheek?

Scarab Sages

dotted while I write my pitch


kevin_video wrote:
How serious or goofy a concept are the classes supposed to be? I mean, magical girls and multi-men? Are we designing classes that mimic a 20 level power ranger or X-man? Like, would I be doing up a 20 level build for a Wolverine clone with regeneration, scent, and claws? Or is this more along the lines of a serious class that you can honestly see standing side-by-side your standard party build (fighter, mage, rogue, healer) without any tongue-in-cheek?

a little bit of either really, i would call the craven from gonzo 1 a pretty serious class, albeit with a really different mechanical set up. Yet in the same book we also printed the toon class, which is exactly what it sounds like. Gonzo is a book for off the wall ideas, although a degree of wacky certainly doesn't hurt your chances.


I would say "wacky" is secondary to "compelling" or "original".
If it is JUST "silly" or "funny" it won't fly. For example, like Christos said, we had the toon but it was backed up by a whole suite of mechanics and lore. When you say the name "toon" or "rockstar" you "get" what that is off the bat even before you read the lore.

We are not looking for joke classes or things that are "like a paladin, but a little different". Find something unique with a firm and established grounding and go for it.

Try looking at genre outside what is normally examined in D&D/Pathfinder. We have a very narrow focus in both terms of theme and mechanics and the Gonzo line is about expanding that. It is about exploring new concepts and taking risks.

The stuff in Gonzo is not meant to be auto-approved at every table. It is meant to make a GM go, "Oh man... I gotta find a way to work this in" or maybe offer them a class that can add new influences to their work. What if you did a kind of "Heavy Metal" (ala Taarna) style game? How much would need to change? I'll tell you right now a rockstar from Gonzo 1 would fit right in. What if you wanted to play a game that takes a lot of hints from like a Disney movie? Guide in Gonzo 2 is going to fill that niche (though it covers a LOT of niches actually).

Using that, please pitch us something that helps the game grow in terms of what is acceptable thematically and mechanically.

PS: I think craven is one of my favorite classes mechanically from Gonzo 1 Christos. The playtests were magnificent.

Grand Lodge

Little Red Goblin Games wrote:

I would say "wacky" is secondary to "compelling" or "original".

If it is JUST "silly" or "funny" it won't fly. For example, like Christos said, we had the toon but it was backed up by a whole suite of mechanics and lore. When you say the name "toon" or "rockstar" you "get" what that is off the bat even before you read the lore.

We are not looking for joke classes or things that are "like a paladin, but a little different". Find something unique with a firm and established grounding and go for it.

Try looking at genre outside what is normally examined in D&D/Pathfinder. We have a very narrow focus in both terms of theme and mechanics and the Gonzo line is about expanding that. It is about exploring new concepts and taking risks.

The stuff in Gonzo is not meant to be auto-approved at every table. It is meant to make a GM go, "Oh man... I gotta find a way to work this in" or maybe offer them a class that can add new influences to their work. What if you did a kind of "Heavy Metal" (ala Taarna) style game? How much would need to change? I'll tell you right now a rockstar from Gonzo 1 would fit right in. What if you wanted to play a game that takes a lot of hints from like a Disney movie? Guide in Gonzo 2 is going to fill that niche (though it covers a LOT of niches actually).

Using that, please pitch us something that helps the game grow in terms of what is acceptable thematically and mechanically.

PS: I think craven is one of my favorite classes mechanically from Gonzo 1 Christos. The playtests were magnificent.

So, if I wanted to design a 20 level class about a noble with an heirloom item leveling up with him the entire time, or a shinto priestess that exorcised spirits and demons, with backstory and everything, plus class features that backed everything up... that would be something that you guys would be looking for?


Noble with an Heirloom Item:
Possibly? I mean it depends on how original your mechanics are and how you fluffed it. We did a noble class (noble, buck, courtier, nomad), we've done a "this item grows with you as you level up" class (legend wielder) but if you have a new source you are drawing for (I dunno- like a roman myth or something) it could be possible.

Shinto Priest:
That is a concept that has been done before and is not really "fresh" (we've touched on it in our Heroes of the East line and a lot of other 3pps have)


I have some fairly cool ideas. I do have one question though: if you accept my idea, could I be paid in PDFs instead of cash? It's the whole 'college grants and scholarships' nonsense that is my primary reasoning, because I would spend the cash on PDFs anyway.


Sure


Every time I fine tune my pitch I end up chopping stuff that spatter when they hit the floor like bangers in a hot frying pan. Now bangers make for good breakfast & shouldn't be thrown out. Any limit on the number of pitches?

D@#&, even my metaphors have me thinking "the Breakfasteer, that would be a cool gonzo class, wouldn't it?" :)

Grand Lodge

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Little Red Goblin Games wrote:

Noble with an Heirloom Item:

Possibly? I mean it depends on how original your mechanics are and how you fluffed it. We did a noble class (noble, buck, courtier, nomad), we've done a "this item grows with you as you level up" class (legend wielder) but if you have a new source you are drawing for (I dunno- like a roman myth or something) it could be possible.

Shinto Priest:
That is a concept that has been done before and is not really "fresh" (we've touched on it in our Heroes of the East line and a lot of other 3pps have)

I was looking more for which off-the-wall concept seemed less likely to acceptable, like "yeah, the heirloom item class seems like a much more plausible concept, but that shinto priestess one is just too out there." Apparently both are perfectly fine, and that's cool. Still got my answer.


You can pitch as much as many as you'd like Curaigh.

@Kevin
I don't think the shinto priest is too out there (like I said- it has been done before). It is all in the execution. Heck- if you pitched a "Fighter" and it was so new and original mechanically we'd be ok with it. The threshold for how original it is just going to be very very high.

As an example, when we wrote the tao a few years back we used a sliding system of caster level adjustments for "yin" and "yang" spells. It could have just be a "spellcasting monk" but it was a lot more than that (drawing from soft arts and the like). Or in the "fighter" example, we invented a new dice mechanic that was reliant on what numbers were adjacent to the number you rolled on a D20 for the skirmisher (which was essentially a "light, fast, fighter").

Grand Lodge

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Ah, okay. I think I'm on the same page now.


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Cool. I can promise they will NOT be the breakfasteer.
Well almost, that sounds like a challenge... :)

Sovereign Court

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I just sent an email with my submission.


Thanks for all the submissions thus far guys!
Please be very careful and read the introduction where we talk about what we are developing as we have received some pitches that were essentially those concepts.

A little insight into what we have lined up (and, mind you, this could change while we are developing):

Architect: A turret-based damage dealer and support character whose resources are dependent on the kinds of terrain that is around you.

Croupier: A chivalrous "gambler" who, rather than taking the traditional "chaos mage" approach, controls luck and eliminates random elements from the game. Requires a card deck for some aspects of the class. Draws from things like the wild-west, card-sharks, high stakes poker, and Jazz.

Davatti: A martial character who messes with 3D/2D/4D space (technically n-dimensional euclidean space). They can move in 4 dimensions (ana and kata), fold space, form weapons out of space/time and modify it, play with gravity, and distort movement distances.

Dynamancer: Dynamancer fuel their ego, igniting a flame within their hearts known as a "soulflame". This magical ego-boost affords them supernatural powers based on their own self-confidence. They have a variable BAB depending on what they are fighting- living up to bigger challenges but slowing down to give weaker challenges a fair fight. Also, "love beam" (you'll see).

Without giving too much other stuff away we have: Something very
"kamen rider"-esque, something along the lines of a magical girl, a multiman, something very "Disney Princess" inspired (though with a wicked twist), and even a faerie (or at least small creature) class that kind of fills that role of guide (ala Navi, Jiminy Cricket, a Fairy Godmother, or even Tinkerbell) as well as quite a few other classes and new sub-systems.

I hope this little insight A) Gets you guys super pumped for this book and B) clears up what we already have in this book.

Oh and we will be contacting the winning pitches once the submission period is over. So far it looks like we have 1... maybe 2 we really dig (we're picky like that).


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Submission sent.


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Submitted!


Thanks so much for submitting!
I have got quite a few I have not yet replied to (I tended to reply mostly to the ones I knew off the bat we could not accept) and there are some great ideas in there. As soon as I got one I added them to a folder for our in-house designers to look over. There is still another day before we close so get them in before 11:59pm tomorrow!

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

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I sent in a couple submissions.


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Curaigh wrote:
Submission sent.

Dito. :)


Hey guys! So we reviewed them in house and will be sending out emails sometime this week.


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I did not have the time to try and submit, but I am deathly curious to see the winning submissions!


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Hey guys!
We've got a few emails from folks who had not had a chance to check the thread. Just for clarification, the winning submissions we accepted (to see more of) are:

  • The Soulwelder, by Garrett Guillotte.
  • The Monster Cowboy, by Mark Nordheim.
  • Resonator, by Jeff Zerzix.

    If your submission is not on that list (and there are 25 of them that did not get accepted), unfortunately we are not interested in perusing your submission.

    A lot of them were turned down simply on the notion that they were either:
    A) Too mundane.
    B) Were too close to existing material conceptually.
    C) Too silly (more "jokes" than classes).

  • Contributor

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    Scott...(It's Jeff Swank) Zerzix is just my email. hehe And congrats to my fellow Freelance Forge members!


    Jeffrey Swank wrote:
    Scott...(It's Jeff Swank) Zerzix is just my email. hehe And congrats to my fellow Freelance Forge members!

    Dreadfully sorry about that. I was just pulling things from my email so my copy/paste-fu was poor.


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    So after our in-house selection project the following classes were accepted (and yes- it's a BIG book):

  • Atomic Adept
  • Battle Butler
  • Goblin Battle Clown
  • Croupier
  • Davatti
  • Dynamancer
  • Guide
  • Henchling
  • Kamen Rider
  • Magic Girl
  • Monster Cowboy
  • Multiman
  • Phantom Thief
  • Resonator
  • Scarlet Impersonator
  • Soulwelder
  • Sparkle Princess
  • Ungermaw

    Of note, the previously announced architect (tower defense) class will be shifting to a solo release rather than being included in Gonzo 2. Multiman, Phantom Thief, and Scarlet Impersonator have tentative acceptance into the book provided they meet certain design goals within the next two weeks.

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