Blistering Feint, Explosive Torch, and Range


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

Feint:
Feinting is a standard action. To feint, make a Bluff skill check. The DC of this check is equal to 10 + your opponent's base attack bonus + your opponent's Wisdom modifier. If your opponent is trained in Sense Motive, the DC is instead equal to 10 + your opponent's Sense Motive bonus, if higher. If successful, the next melee attack you make against the target does not allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any). This attack must be made on or before your next turn.

Blistering Feint:
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on feint checks made while wielding a weapon that deals fire damage. Anytime you successfully feint a creature while using such a weapon, you may deal its fire damage to the enemy.

Explosive Torch:
At 4th level, as a standard action, a blazing torchbearer can drop a special blend of explosive powders onto his torch before using it as a weapon. His next successful melee attack with the torch deals an additional 2d6 points of fire damage and sets the target on fire. This attack must be made within 1d4 rounds or the torch prematurely explodes at the end of the blazing torchbearer's turn, dealing damage to the blazing torchbearer and setting him on fire.

Torch Fighter:
Benefit(s): You treat a torch as a light weapon that deals bludgeoning damage equal to that of a light mace of its size plus 1 point of fire damage, and you do not incur penalties as you would for using it as an improvised weapon.

Questions:
If I use the Explosive Torch Ability, then use Blistering Feint, how much damage would a successful Feint do?

If the Blistering Feint is successful, would this use up the Explosive Torch Ability, or would it stay on the torch?

At what range can I use Blistering Feint?

Secondary Question:
Can I masterwork a torch?

Can I enchant a torch with weapon enhancements?

Thanks.


Feinting is a special action, not an attack. It (usually) requires a standard action to use a Feint which is a Bluff check and not an attack roll.

Explosive Torch says it does the 2d6 fire damage on a successful melee attack. A Feint is not any kind of melee attack at all so would not be eligible for the 2d6 fire damage. The only way to do the extra 2d6 fire damage is when you make a successful melee attack.

Blistering Feint says you can add your weapon's fire damage to a successful Feint and Torch Fighter says your weapon's fire damage is 1 point, so Blistering Feint will allow you to do 1 point of fire damage.

Blistering Feint would not use up the Explosive Torch ability - you still need to apply it after a successful melee attack.

The range of any kind of Feint is the reach of your melee weapon, so with a torch your range is "adjacent".

A torch is not a weapon. Torch Fighter lets you treat it like a weapon but it is still not a weapon. Therefore it cannot be made masterwork (as a weapon) and cannot be enchanted with weapon enchantments.

Liberty's Edge

Explosive Torch affects the next single melee attack. A feint is not a melee attack, and the extra damage from Explosive Torch is not the weapon's "fire damage". The weapon's fire damage is 1, from Torch Fighter.

Per above, since Blistering Feint is not a melee attack, it does not use up (or benefit from) Explosive Torch, so it's still on the weapon.

While there is no specified range limit for the Feint action, it only benefits you if your next attack against the target is a melee attack. So the practical distance is however close you think you need to be in order to be able to close to within melee range for your next attack.

A torch is a tool. A masterwork tool is a better tool, but not a better weapon or improvised weapon. Since there is no check that involves a torch, there is no functional benefit to one being masterwork, so it would not make sense for one to exist other than to have a fancy appearance.

Since a torch is not a weapon, it cannot have weapon enchantments placed upon it.

Liberty's Edge

Yeah, whatever DM Blake says, that's what I say!

Grand Lodge

DM_Blake wrote:

Feinting is a special action, not an attack. It (usually) requires a standard action to use a Feint which is a Bluff check and not an attack roll.

Explosive Torch says it does the 2d6 fire damage on a successful melee attack. A Feint is not any kind of melee attack at all so would not be eligible for the 2d6 fire damage. The only way to do the extra 2d6 fire damage is when you make a successful melee attack.

Blistering Feint says you can add your weapon's fire damage to a successful Feint and Torch Fighter says your weapon's fire damage is 1 point, so Blistering Feint will allow you to do 1 point of fire damage.

I guess my question on this answer is this: If I have a Flaming weapon, which "deals 1d6 damage on a successful hit", does that also not apply to Blistering Feint?

DM_Blake wrote:
Blistering Feint would not use up the Explosive Torch ability - you still need to apply it after a successful melee attack.

Makes sense.

DM_Blake wrote:
The range of any kind of Feint is the reach of your melee weapon, so with a torch your range is "adjacent".

Where does it say this? I have always been told/read that feint has no written range increment or limitation. Unless I missed something.

DM_Blake wrote:
A torch is not a weapon. Torch Fighter lets you treat it like a weapon but it is still not a weapon. Therefore it cannot be made masterwork (as a weapon) and cannot be enchanted with weapon enchantments.

Makes sense.


Aydin D'Ampfer wrote:
DM_Blake wrote:
The range of any kind of Feint is the reach of your melee weapon, so with a torch your range is "adjacent".
Where does it say this? I have always been told/read that feint has no written range increment or limitation. Unless I missed something.

A fair question.

To answer only by RAW, it doesn't say this. Strictly by RAW you are right.

However, the developers have said, countless times, that some things are meant to be interpreted in the English language. For example, they never exactly define "human". The book talks about our drive, our capacity, our society, but it never defines what the word means.

It is exactly the same for "feint". So what does the word mean:

Dictionary wrote:
an attack aimed at one place or point merely as a distraction from the real place or point of attack

Now that's not the only definition, but it's the most common one that pertains to combat.

Using that, we go back to Pathfinder rules:

Pathfinder Core Rule Book, Combat, Feint wrote:
If successful, the next melee attack you make against the target does not allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to AC

So now we know it's a fake melee attack you aim at one point merely as a detraction from the real point of your melee attack. Since a torch doesn't have reach, you can only make melee attacks (real ones or feint pretend ones) against adjacent opponents with your torch.

However, if you used a melee weapon with reach, your feints could be applied to any target within reach of your weapon but not adjacent (since your reach weapon cannot hit adjacent enemies). So in this sense you are right, there is no specific "range" for a feint; it's "range" always matches the reach of your weapon.


Aydin D'Ampfer wrote:
I guess my question on this answer is this: If I have a Flaming weapon, which "deals 1d6 damage on a successful hit", does that also not apply to Blistering Feint?

Yes, it would apply. A flaming weapon does +1d6 fire damage on a hit.

A torch, however, does +1 flaming damage on a hit. You have a special ability, Explosive Torch, that lets you alter this damage but requires you to make a melee attack to apply this altered damage. It makes no consideration for applying this damage on a successful feint, and since feints are skill checks, not melee attacks, the Explosive Torch ability would not be compatible with feints.

Grand Lodge

Well, looks like adding a silly feat and a sillier archetype together does not result in something useable. Too bad.

Grand Lodge

Maybe an alchemist? Their bombs are fire damage...

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