James F.D. Graham RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8 |
Picture this, if you will:
A field of snow. Somewhere between knee and waist deep. Certainly deep enough to hamper movement/be treated as difficult terrain.
As the party travels across, they awaken nearby zombies that were lying dormant on the ground. The undead start rising out of the snow to attack.
The party cleric decides to channel energy against the advancing horde.
Here is the question, IF there were zombies still under the snow, and not yet 'activated', within the range of the channel energy. Would they be hit by it or not?
Thanks for your help.
darkagn |
I would say all zombies within the radius are affected as I imagine the channel ability as being a burst of divine energy eminating from the cleric. Also I can't find anything in the description of the ability that either concealment or cover block the ability (in the Core rulebook at least, but happy to be proven wrong).
baradakas |
Channel Energy is a burst effect.
Channeling energy causes a burst...
Burst effects are blocked by cover.
A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, including creatures that you can't see. It can't affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don't extend around corners).
A zombie laying down in about 4 feet of snow would have total cover against anyone who wasn't adjacent to it.
The channel energy would not effect the prone zombies.
Sniggevert |
Channel Energy is a burst effect.
CRB wrote:Channeling energy causes a burst...Burst effects are blocked by cover.
CRB wrote:A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, including creatures that you can't see. It can't affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don't extend around corners).A zombie laying down in about 4 feet of snow would have total cover against anyone who wasn't adjacent to it.
The channel energy would not effect the prone zombies.
^This.
James F.D. Graham RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8 |
Ok,
Thank-you for quick replies!
I can't edit the original post any more, so I'm putting this here just to clarify.
The question is not whether total cover blocks a channel energy burst. It does. That part we know.
The question is whether you consider deep snow to be total cover.
So far, the consensus seems to be yes.
Personally, I am leaning towards calling it concealment but only because of the Rule of Cool - I think it would be a memorable scene to have the cleric channel energy on what the party think is only a few undead, only to have a lot more burst out of the snow as a result.
But I digress.
Sniggevert |
Also does water provide cover? Does channel energy work under water?
Yes...to a point. But, also yes.
I withdraw my previous statement, as snow would probably block just as well as water and water does not block non-fire area magical effects.
Attacks from Land: Characters swimming, floating, or treading water on the surface, or wading in water at least chest deep, have improved cover (+8 bonus to AC, +4 bonus on Reflex saves) from opponents on land. Land-bound opponents who have freedom of movement effects ignore this cover when making melee attacks against targets in the water. A completely submerged creature has total cover against opponents on land unless those opponents have freedom of movement effects. Magical effects are unaffected except for those that require attack rolls (which are treated like any other effects) and fire effects.
Also, depending on how deep the snow was it would provide some form of cover bonus (waist deep probably standard cover rather than improved which would require the chest deep bit from above).
Imbicatus |
Densely packed snow would be cover, but would prevent the zombies from getting out. Loose Snow is concealment, but not cover. It also doesn't have the surface tension that liquid water has to grant cover vs things form the surface. I also would not apply the total cover vs submerged targets to piercing attacks. Spearfishing and bowfishing are things.
Claxon |
Densely packed snow would be cover, but would prevent the zombies from getting out. Loose Snow is concealment, but not cover. It also doesn't have the surface tension that liquid water has to grant cover vs things form the surface. I also would not apply the total cover vs submerged targets to piercing attacks. Spearfishing and bowfishing are things.
I think the attack penalty is due to the refraction of light through the water, which makes objects appear to be in a different location from where they actually are.
Those who practice spearfishing and bowfishing learn to compensate for this, but I would call it a special skill most of us are not used to dealing with.
Edit: It seems weird that the game treats water as cover (which is normally related to a solid object). It makes more since than concealment because miss chance doesn't seem appropriate.
Orfamay Quest |
If its densely packed snow, I would require a strength check for the zombies to climb out.
Yeah, this. Anything that isn't solid enough to cause a barrier to climb through isn't solid enough to cause a barrier to firing arrows through. A wall that provides total cover also provides total blockage of movement. A Japanese paper wall or a curtain doesn't hamper movement, but also doesn't provide any cover.
James F.D. Graham RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8 |
Just asking questions here.
how are the zombies detecting you through cover?
Is it lifesense? I'm thinking not. They don't have that do they. THEIR perception is +0. If you say it's cover then a -5 or -10 to perception.
Also does water provide cover? Does channel energy work under water?
Eh, I'm ok with hand waving that kind of stuff. Plus, I don't want to turn this thread into a debate about what an uncontrolled zombie can and cannot do on its own.
But if I had to put a theory behind it, I would say that any party member who stepped in a square adjacent to a zombie would 'activate' that one. I would also say that any zombie damaged by the channel energy would react to being damaged and then move to the party once they stood up and saw them.
(However Zombies see with dead eyes).
Ravingdork |
Cover definitely blocks burst effects such as that from Channel Energy.
Now, as for the rules on snow, this is what I was able to dig up from the Core Rulebook's Environment chapter:
Snow: Falling snow has the same effects on visibility, ranged weapon attacks, and skill checks as rain, and it costs 2 squares of movement to enter a snow-covered square. A day of snowfall leaves 1d6 inches of snow on the ground.
Heavy Snow: Heavy snow has the same effects as normal snowfall but also restricts visibility as fog does (see Fog). A day of heavy snow leaves 1d4 feet of snow on the ground, and it costs 4 squares of movement to enter a square covered with heavy snow. Heavy snow accompanied by strong or severe winds might result in snowdrifts 1d4 × 5 feet deep, especially in and around objects big enough to deflect the wind—a cabin or a large tent, for instance. There is a 10% chance that a heavy snowfall is accompanied by lightning (see Thunderstorm). Snow has the same effect on flames as moderate wind.
For the purposes of digging themselves out, I would borrow the rules from avalanches:
Buried characters take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage per minute. (Note that your zombies would be immune.) If a buried character falls unconscious, he must make a DC 15 Constitution check or take 1d6 points of lethal damage each minute thereafter until freed or dead. See Cave-Ins and Collapses for rules on digging out buried creatures.
An excerpt from Cave-Ins and Collapses on digging out buried creatures:
Characters who aren't buried can dig out their friends. In 1 minute, using only her hands, a character can clear rocks and debris equal to five times her heavy load limit. The amount of loose stone that fills a 5-foot-by-5-foot area weighs 1 ton (2,000 pounds). Armed with an appropriate tool, such as a pick, crowbar, or shovel, a digger can clear loose stone twice as quickly as by hand. A buried character can attempt to free himself with a DC 25 Strength check.
Reading all that makes me think that being buried in snow WOULD provide total cover, since being buried in snow is mechanically as bad as being buried under rock.
thorin001 |
Cover definitely blocks burst effects such as that from Channel Energy.
Now, as for the rules on snow, this is what I was able to dig up from the Core Rulebook's Environment chapter:
Snow: Falling snow has the same effects on visibility, ranged weapon attacks, and skill checks as rain, and it costs 2 squares of movement to enter a snow-covered square. A day of snowfall leaves 1d6 inches of snow on the ground.
Heavy Snow: Heavy snow has the same effects as normal snowfall but also restricts visibility as fog does (see Fog). A day of heavy snow leaves 1d4 feet of snow on the ground, and it costs 4 squares of movement to enter a square covered with heavy snow. Heavy snow accompanied by strong or severe winds might result in snowdrifts 1d4 × 5 feet deep, especially in and around objects big enough to deflect the wind—a cabin or a large tent, for instance. There is a 10% chance that a heavy snowfall is accompanied by lightning (see Thunderstorm). Snow has the same effect on flames as moderate wind.
For the purposes of digging themselves out, I would borrow the rules from avalanches:
Buried characters take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage per minute. (Note that your zombies would be immune.) If a buried character falls unconscious, he must make a DC 15 Constitution check or take 1d6 points of lethal damage each minute thereafter until freed or dead. See Cave-Ins and Collapses for rules on digging out buried creatures.
An excerpt from Cave-Ins and Collapses on digging out buried creatures:
Characters who aren't buried can dig out their friends. In 1 minute, using only her hands, a character can clear rocks and debris equal to five times her heavy load limit. The amount of loose stone that fills a 5-foot-by-5-foot area weighs 1 ton (2,000 pounds). Armed with an appropriate tool, such as a pick, crowbar, or shovel, a digger can clear loose stone twice as quickly as by hand. A buried...
Only if it is dense enough to weigh 2000 lbs in that 5x5 area. Caught in an avalanche should count, random snow drift not so much.