How much is take 10 worth in combat?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


So as I've been looking around I've found some traits and some class abilities that lets you take 10 on skills in combat. And I'm curious what people feel about how good this is. How do you rate the value of take 10 in combat? Do you feel it's better than a +2? a +1? Does it depend on the skill?


It's pretty solid for some skills. Perception makes it easier to find an Invisible target if you have somewhere in the range of +10-12 Perception.

Acrobatics when you've pumped it and only a low roll can really screw you.

UMD (with the like...one ability that lets you do it) lets you avoid any possibility of Mishap. If you have to roll for UMD you shouldn't attempt it anyway.


Definitely depends on the skill: some skills can't be used in combat or have very minimal/institutional use. Others tend to have fairly fixed DCs that you'll leave behind pretty quickly.

Being able to take 10 in combat can be useful, but only if the DC scales up according to level and but is generally low enough that a 10 will pass if you stay invested in the skill.


So what about intimidate for demoralizing? Is that one of the skills worth taking 10 in combat?


Chess Pwn wrote:
So what about intimidate for demoralizing? Is that one of the skills worth taking 10 in combat?

I'd say it's not a bad choice, assuming you're running a demoralize-centered build. The DC does scale based on the HD and wisdom mod of your enemies, so there's no guarantee of auto-success territory vs. all foes.

On the other hand, if you've got a couple feats sunk into upping your intimidation, it's not too hard to get to succeeding even on a roll of 1 vs. just about any opponent who doesn't have a pumped up wisdom.


Chess Pwn wrote:
So what about intimidate for demoralizing? Is that one of the skills worth taking 10 in combat?

If you have tank build built around Antagonize, then, yes, taking 10 is absolutely fantastic.

What feat/trait/whatever are you talking about, though?


The Rogue talent Skill Mastery is one such.

However, this and similar abilities do not work for UMD because of the skill itself. The ability allows you to ignore the distraction of combat, not take 10 on any skill. Almost the same, yet not quite.

So far, we have uses for Acrobatics, Bluff, Intimidate, and Perception. UMD is a maybe. What other skills are used in combat?

/cevah


Cevah wrote:

The Rogue talent Skill Mastery is one such.

However, this and similar abilities do not work for UMD because of the skill itself. The ability allows you to ignore the distraction of combat, not take 10 on any skill. Almost the same, yet not quite.

So far, we have uses for Acrobatics, Bluff, Intimidate, and Perception. UMD is a maybe. What other skills are used in combat?

/cevah

Tumble, Ride, Fly, in rare instances Climb or Swim come to mind.


Taking ten is great for Inquisitors and Bards who are identifying monsters.

Fly can be necessary for people who want to do any maneuvering.

Some DM's will call for a Sense Motive or Heal check to figure out how injured your foes are.

Shadow Lodge

I think in a nutshell, if you've boosted the skill to the point where a take 10 can't/is very unlikely to fail, it's generally very valuable - sort of like adding an at-will class feature to your character (whereas for other characters, it's a maybe-maybe not).


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Not actually in-combat, but around combat Stealth can be nice.


chbgraphicarts wrote:
Chess Pwn wrote:
So what about intimidate for demoralizing? Is that one of the skills worth taking 10 in combat?

If you have tank build built around Antagonize, then, yes, taking 10 is absolutely fantastic.

What feat/trait/whatever are you talking about, though?

Ifrits have a trait called Burning Love Gaze that lets them take 10 on intimidatee whenever they please. We have a bloodrager that has that trait but she mostly uses it in social situations since she's the RAGE, SMASH of the group.


As an opposing view, I present this post.

Merm7th wrote:

Yes you definitely can use skill mastery to take 10 on Use Magic Device. Just read the description for Skill Mastery...

When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so.

It doesn't say "...she can take 10 if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so". it says "...she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so".

If an ability said "The character is very familiar with legal contracts. She receives a +5 bonus to forge legal contracts even if in an unknown language". Would you assume she can't take the +5 bonus if its in a language she knows?

The argument presented by Cevah is that the text of Skill Mastery makes "she can take 10" conditional on "stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so". The rebuttal would be that "even if" isn't usually used to make a conditional statement. The word "if" in place of it would make a conditional, but "even" makes a difference.


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Taking 10 and Taking 20

Taking 10 and Taking 20 wrote:

A skill check represents an attempt to accomplish some goal, usually while under some sort of time pressure or distraction. Sometimes, though, a character can use a skill under more favorable conditions, increasing the odds of success.

Taking 10
When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10....

Taking 10 is an option available under some conditions.

Use Magic Device

Use Magic Device wrote:

Restrictions

You cannot take 10 with this skill.

Specific overrides general.

Skill Mastery

Skill Mastery wrote:
Benefit: The rogue becomes so confident in the use of certain skills that she can use them reliably even under adverse conditions. Upon gaining this ability, she selects a number of skills equal to 3 + her Intelligence modifier. When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so.

Stress and distractions do not prevent Take 10 on UMD. The skill itself does. The Take 10 rules are not an option for UMD, so the talent cannot give Take 10 to a skill that Take 10 cannot apply to.

/cevah


Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

As an opposing view, I present this post.

Merm7th wrote:

Yes you definitely can use skill mastery to take 10 on Use Magic Device. Just read the description for Skill Mastery...

When making a skill check with one of these skills, she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so.

It doesn't say "...she can take 10 if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so". it says "...she may take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so".

If an ability said "The character is very familiar with legal contracts. She receives a +5 bonus to forge legal contracts even if in an unknown language". Would you assume she can't take the +5 bonus if its in a language she knows?

The argument presented by Cevah is that the text of Skill Mastery makes "she can take 10" conditional on "stress and distractions would normally prevent her from doing so". The rebuttal would be that "even if" isn't usually used to make a conditional statement. The word "if" in place of it would make a conditional, but "even" makes a difference.

That's not really saying the same thing at all, though. In the example you're adding a new item; in the case of "take 10", you're removing a restriction. The "even if" is explicitly calling out this one specific restriction that's being removed.

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