DPR Bard Challenge


Advice

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

I've been ragging on bards for years for being worthless. But I'm curious how damaging you can make a bard in combat. I saw a build where most of the damage came from a Leadership cohort (which had summons and an animal companion). I've seen a Dawnflower Dervish, and at low levels, it took a few rounds to spin up to being really deadly (after it has a +Dex belt and Haste shoes, it's pretty frightening). I'd like to see a build that can keep pace with the appropriate damage at each level.

Because I know this is what most people will say as soon as they see the subject line, I add the disclaimer that I KNOW bards have other ways of being awesome, and damage is not the best, but I'd like to see how well it can be done.

The build is for level 9. But future feat choices would be welcome suggestions.

The restrictions: Paizo only. PFS legal is preferred, but for a really awesome build, if anything flags PFS-Banned just cite it as such on the build. I'd prefer the DPR to be gear-independent, but if a particular item would increase the awesomery, and falls within WBL guidelines, include it.

The recommendation: Being at full strength on the initiative roll is definitely a plus. Taking more than 3 rounds to achieve target DPR is not valuable.

Shadow Lodge

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human archaeologist bard

heirloom weapon: composite longbow
fate's favored

14 STR
24 DEX (18 start, +2 level bumps, +4 belt)

Point-Blank
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Deadly Aim
Manyshot
Lingering song
(Clustered shots at L11, or earlier at L9 instead of Manyshot)

Use Masterwork Transformation on your bow and then begin upgrading it as necessary. Archaeologist Luck at L9 with Fate's Favored is +3 to hit and damage.

Assuming a +2 Bow and a +4 belt and haste (or divine fervor or allegro), your second round full attack is:

+15/+15/+15/+10 1d8+9

of course, you could be less selfish and do a standard bard and inspire everyone, losing the +1 stuff from Fate's Favored.

If you're good with your money, you might be able to go with a +1 Holy bow by L9, with which you then begin to wreck face.


Sammy T wrote:

human archaeologist bard

heirloom weapon: composite longbow
fate's favored

14 STR
24 DEX (18 start, +2 level bumps, +4 belt)

Point-Blank
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot
Deadly Aim
Manyshot
Lingering song
(Clustered shots at L11, or earlier at L9 instead of Manyshot)

Use Masterwork Transformation on your bow and then begin upgrading it as necessary. Archaeologist Luck at L9 with Fate's Favored is +3 to hit and damage.

Assuming a +2 Bow and a +4 belt and haste (or divine fervor or allegro), your second round full attack is:

+15/+15/+15/+10 1d8+9

of course, you could be less selfish and do a standard bard and inspire everyone, losing the +1 stuff from Fate's Favored.

If you're good with your money, you might be able to go with a +1 Holy bow by L9, with which you then begin to wreck face.

Don't forget your Rogue talents as an Archaeologist. You have two talents by level 9, which you can use to grab an extra combat feat, and weapon focus. I'd take Arcane strike. On the 2/3 rounds that you aren't using your swift action for Luck, you are getting a free +2 damage.

Also, don't forget that you should have +2 morale to attack from Heroism, which lasts long enough (90 minutes at this level) to be a pre combat buff.


And while items aren't the focus (as the OP said), you can always snag a scroll of Gravity Bow to top your damage off with some extra oomph assuming you can get a version of the spell that lasts more than a single minute (and assuming you can cast this before the fight starts). But it's not really NECESSARY.

I'll think about this topic for a wee while.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

For Bow-Bards, there is also the somewhat-expensive Tuned Bowstring, though I'm not sure how it works with Archaeologist.


Well, since Archaeologist’s luck is treated as bardic performance for the purposes of feats, abilities, effects, and the like that affect bardic performance, I'd say it works, just the same as Lingering Performance, making that a must have for bow focused Archaeologists.

Shadow Lodge

Thanks for the reminder about rogue talents

+1 to Weapon Focus and Arcane Strike


Sound Striker using conductive ranged weapon. Will throw a build later on. I imagine you do not consider multiclassing/dipping within the rules, for a 1-2 level dip? It wouldn't be a bard challenge anymore.


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Level 9

Race:
Azata Blooded Aasimar

5 feats (1,3,5,7,9):

Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Many Shot
Clustered Shot
Deadly Aim
Feat Level 11 or instead of Deadly Aim: Divine Protection (Cha to saves)

Favoured Class Bonus:
Bard, Aasimar (+1/2 total level to one song..Inspire Courage making us count as level 13, for a +3)


15 point buy: :

Str 10
Dex 15 +1 (4th) + 2 (race)= 18
Con 12
Wis 10
Int 9
Cha 15 +1 (8th) + 2 (race)= 18

Gear:
Conductive Bow +1
No extra items, no headbands or anything

The action: We assume 1 round of buffing because we have a team that needs those juicy songs. We use a Standard Action to buff with Haste a Move to start a song. Next round full attack.

To hit::

Bab: +6/+1
Dex: +4
Rapid Shot: -2
Song: +3
Weapon: +1
Haste: +1


Attacks::

Bab/Manyshot/Haste/Bab
+13/-/+13/+8
Deadly aim
+11/-/+11/+6

Damage::

1d8
Pbs: +1 (within 30 feet)
Weapon: +1
Song: +3
Conductive: 1d8 + Cha (Once a round, non errata version, errata version is better)

Single Attack
1d8 + 5 + (once a round: 1d8 + 4)
1d8 + 9 (deadly aim)

All hit:
(1d8 + 5 x 4) + (1d8+4) = 5d8+24
DPR 29 - 64, AVG 46,5

All hit Deadly Aim:
(1d8 + 9 x 4) + (1d8+4) = 5d8 + 40
DPR 48 - 80, AVG 64

Note: Not using any + stats items, but counts Haste+Song (1 round of buffing)
Advancement to be put into Charisma and Dexterity, Weapon Focus and anything that gives you to hit.

Silver Crusade

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Since folks already threw out the Dervish and the Archaeologist, here's a quick build for the third main melee bard archetype, the Arcane Duelist.

This isn't necessarily how I'd build a bard, but it works well enough. Do notice the good things that I'm getting out of being a half-orc: darkvision, +2 to all saves (sacred tattoo + fate's favored), falchion. Half-orc works very well for melee Archaeologist as well (that might work out better than the Arcane Duelist, actually—not sure without testing it; I use the Duelist for variety and because you can give inspire to everyone not just yourself).

### TEST ###
Level 9 facing a CR 11 enemy (average AC 25, hp 145)

* arcane duelist with heroism (long-term) and inspire (move action) = 37.5 dpr (29% of hp)
* ... add in haste or allegro (standard action) = 63 dpr (43% of hp)

As a useful baseline for comparison, Cheapy's numbers for elite-array CRB-only fighter:

* <non-optimized CRB fighter> = 28 dpr (19% of hp)
* <optimized CRB fighter> = 45 dpr (31% of hp)

Lvl 9 Statblock:
Level 9 Half-Orc Arcane Duelist
Init +4; Perception +11

### DEFENSE ###
AC 24 (+9 armor, +2 dex, +1 nat, +1 defl, +2 luck; -2 furious focus, +1 haste)
hp 84 (9d8+18+9+9)
Fort [3] +9, Ref [6] +12, Will [6] +9; cloak +2, tattoo +2

### OFFENSE ###
Speed 30 ft.
Melee falchion +21/+19/+14 (2d4+20/17-20)
Atk = +6 bab, +6 Str, +3 enh, +1 focus, [-2 pwr atk]; +1 haste, +2 heroism, +2 inspire
Dmg = +9 Str, +3 enh, +6 pwr atk, +2 arc strk

### SPELLS (CL 9th; Concentration +11 (+15) ###
3rd (4; 3/d) — confusion, haste, glibness
2nd (4; 5/d) — allegro, gallant inspiration, glitterdust, heroism
1st (5; 6/d) — CLW, feather fall, grease, liberating command, saving finale
0th (6; ∞) — detect magic, ghost sound, message, open/close, prestidigitation, sift

### STATISTICS ###
Str 22* Dex 14 Con 14 Int 7 Wis 8 Cha 14
BAB +6/+1
Feats Arcane Strike [+2], Combat Casting, Disruptive, Furious Focus, Lunge, Power Attack [-2/+6], Toughness, Weapon Focus (Falchion)
Skills Diplomacy [1] +6, Bluff [3] +8, Intimidate [5] +12, Perception [9] +11, Sense Motive [9] +11, UMD [9] +14
Traits Fate's Favored, Reactionary
Race Traits Darkvision, intimidating, orc blood, weapon familiarity, sacred tattoo
Class Abilities ...

### EQUIPMENT ###
Offense falchion +3 (half-off thanks to Arcane Bond), belt of giant strength +2; Armor mithral breastplate +3, amulet +1, ring +1, jingasa of the fortunate soldier; Other cloak +2, lesser rod of extend; Costs 42,575 gp out of 46,000 wbl

### BUILD ###

Half-Orc Arcane Duelist
Str 19 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 7 Wis 8 Cha 13

Racial Traits: Darkvision, intimidating, orc blood, weapon familiarity; sacred tattoo

01 Fate's Favored, Reactionary; Arcane Strike*, Toughness
02 Combat Casting*
03 Power Attack
04 +1 Str [= 20]
05 Furious Focus
06 Disruptive*
07 Weapon Focus (Falchion)
08 +1 Cha [= 14]
09 Lunge
10 Spellbreaker*
11 Improved Critical (Falchion)


Please state how many rounds of buffing you're using. The OP mentioned anything after 3 rounds is not useful, however I think we should all give ourselves just 1 round of buffing for the Song and a buff, then a full round action.

While ranged has the advantage of not needing to reposition (most of the times) we can ignore this for the sake of steady, comparable, numbers.

Similary, remember to check in detail what the build includes. Some use a +3 weapon some just a +1 etc.

Joe M: How do you calculate the DPR vs the foe? A simulation, a subtraction from the damage based on hit chance?


The formula for Damage uses your hit chance against their AC, your crit chance, your average damage, and bonuses to give you an average DPR against a target.

EDIT: I have a smartphone app that does the calculations and I'm sure there are some online if you have good google-fu

Silver Crusade

Errant Mercenary wrote:
Please state how many rounds of buffing you're using. The OP mentioned anything after 3 rounds is not useful, however I think we should all give ourselves just 1 round of buffing for the Song and a buff, then a full round action.

As indicated, I'm assuming heroism is already cast and that the duelist takes either a move action (inspire) or a move action and a standard action (inspire + haste) to buff before engaging. It seems fair to assume heroism in advance for any of these bard builds, since it'll last 90 minutes at this level, 180 minutes extended (hence the lesser rod of extend spell I purchased for the build!).

Eventually we'd have inspire as a swift action and haste as a free action via Boots of Speed, so buff time is minimal.

Errant Mercenary wrote:
Similary, remember to check in detail what the build includes. Some use a +3 weapon some just a +1 etc.

Yep! That's why I included equipment and costs in the statblock summary. One perk of the arcane duelist is the half-off magic weapon via Arcane Bond: +3 falchion for only 9,375 gp!

Errant Mercenary wrote:
Joe M: How do you calculate the DPR vs the foe? A simulation, a subtraction from the damage based on hit chance?

I use a spreadsheet I coded up which calculates expected damage per round given information about the target's ac and the attack value, damage value, threat range, and critical multiplier for each attack (along with extra dice such as sneak attack or energy weapon and critical focus if applicable).

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

Some good stuff here, guys. Thanks! I'm going to HeroLab some of these things up when I get home.


Nice! And yeah, the Arcane Duelist is a fantastic bard, my favourite melee one.
It seems like most people are on the same page when playing a bard, everyone's giving out the song. I say the tyburn jig to those that don't.


Half Orc Dervish Dancer (not Dawnflower Dervish, the one from Ultimate Combat.)

With Inspire Courage: +1 Keen Adamantine Falchion +16/+11 (2d4+20 15-20/x2) 30.9 DPR

With Rain of Blows: +1 Keen Adamantine Falchion +16/+16/+11 (2d4+18 15-20/x2) 46.3 DPR

With 1 round of buffing (Haste + Inspire Courage): +1 Keen Adamantine Falchion +17/+17/+12 (2d4+18 15-22/x2) 55.5 DPR

DPR based on the formula from the DPR Olympics thread, against AC 25 (Since that's what Joe M used,) build and buffs used listed in the Details section.

Details:

Level 9 20 point buy, Init +8

Str 22 (18 base, +2 levels, +2 Belt of Str/Con)
Dex 14
Con 14 (12 Base, +2 belt)
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 16 (14 base, +2 headband)

HP 84 (Toughness, all FCB to HP)
BAB: +6, CMB: 12, CMD: 24
AC: 21, Touch: 15, Flat Footed: 18 (+5 armor, +2 Dex, +2 Luck, +1 Deflection, +1 Natural)

Fort: 8 (10), Ref: 11 (13), Will: 9 (11) (With Heroism)

Attack:

+1 Keen Adamantine Falchion +16/+11 (2d4+20 15-20/x2) With Inspire Courage
+1 Keen Adamantine Falchion +16/+16/+11 (2d4+18 15-20/x2) With Rain of Blows

Included Buffs:
-Heroism: +2 Attack, Skill Checks, Saves for 180 minutes
-Battle Dance: Inspire Courage +2/+2 as a move action, 23 rounds/day, started as a move action (Swift action at 10th level)
-Arcane Strike: +0/+2, Swift Action
-Power Attack: -2/+6, no action

Optional buffs not included in the above line:
-Allegro: Self haste, costs 2 rounds of performance per round, standard action
-Battle Dance: Rain of Blows; +2 Attack, +2 AC, 1 extra attack per round at the cost of +2/+2 from Inspire Courage
-Battle Dance: Razor's Kiss; Keen effect on weapon at the cost of +2/+2 from Inspire Courage
-Haste: On the party.

If he isn't attacking immediately, he can:
Battle Dance, Cast Haste on the party, declare Power Attack and Arcane Strike so on the second round his full attack is:
+1 Keen Adamantine Falchion +17/+17/+12 (2d4+20 15-20/x2)
-This is actually not a bad idea: He's very squishy, so getting in and attacking right away tends to get him ko'd a lot. But if he hangs back on the first round, buffs, lets the less squishy characters draw the enemy's attention, and then unloads on the second round, he isn't a primary target right off the bat and gets a better chance to kill off the enemies before they wise up.

Alternate Racial Traits:
Sacred Tattoo: +1 Luck bonus to saves

Traits:
Fate's Favored (+1 to luck bonuses)
Reactionary: +2 initiative

Feats:
Lvl 1: Arcane Strike
Lvl 3: Power Attack
Lvl 5: Toughness
Lvl 7: Weapon Focus: Falchion
Lvl 9: Improved Initiative
(Other good feats: Extra performance, Iron Will, Riving Strike, Cornugon Smash, etc)

Spells:
Lvl 0: 6 Known
Lvl 1: (6/day) 5 Known
Lvl 2: (5/day) Allegro, Heroism, 2 others known (Alter Self, Glitterdust, Blur, Gallant Inspiration are good spells, Allegro can be swapped out later once Haste is available regularly)
Lvl 3: (4/day) Haste, 3 others known (Good Hope, Purging Finale, See Invisibility, Daylight, Remove Curse are all good)

-Gear (46,000 GP Wealth by level)
Belt of Str/Con +2 (10,000)
Headband +2 Cha (4,000)
+1 Keen Adamantine Falchion (11,075)
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier (5,000)
+1 Chain Shirt (1,250)
Ring Protection +1 (2,000)
Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (2,000)
Cloak of Protection +1 (1,000)
Lesser Rod of Extend Spell (3,000)

Spent: 39,325; 6,675 available

This is pretty close to my Bard in PFS, though he's not to 9 yet and uses a greataxe instead of a falchion for flavor. He's a decent meleer, Allegro and Rain of Blows let him keep up with full BABers when they get their first iterative. But very much a glass cannon, and will probably fall farther and farther behind at higher levels: Battle Dance and Arcane Strike probably will keep him fairly close to full BAB characters baseline damage, but iteratives and power attack won't keep up and he doesn't have the massive explosion of damage Rangers, Paladins and Cavaliers can get when they get to do their schtick.

Level 10 verses Falchion Fred:

For comparison, Falchion Fred from the DPR Olympics at level 10 is doing:
+3 falchion +20/+15, 2d4+25 dmg (15-20/x2) 59.25 DPR (Around 94-100 DPR if he gets Haste.)

Leveling our bard up to 10, and only using long term or sub-standard action buffs and giving him a +3 weapon, our bard is either doing:

Inspire Courage: +2 Keen Adamantine Falchion +18/+13 (2d4+22, 15-20/x2 | 2d4+19 without Arcane Strike) 43.875 DPR (39 DPR without Arcane Strike)
{Attack = +7 BAB, +6 Str, -2 Power Attack, +2 Weapon, +
2 Inspire Courage, +2 Heroism, +1 Weapon Focus}
{Damage = +9 Str, +6 Power Attack, +2 Weapon, +2 Inspire Courage, +3 Arcane Strike}

Rain of Blows: +2 Keen Adamantine Falchion +18/+18/+13 (2d4+20, 15-20/x2 | 2d4+17 without Arcane Strike) 65.71 (57.2 without Arcane Strike)
{Attack = +7 BAB, +6 Str, -2 Power Attack, +2 Weapon, +
2 Rain of Blows, +2 Heroism, +1 Weapon Focus}
{Damage = +9 Str, +6 Power Attack, +2 Weapon, +3 Arcane Strike}

So, on net, the bard is doing just a little better than an unbuffed core fighter at level 10 with his own self buffs. But he doesn't gain nearly as much as the fighter does from extra buffs so he falls behind once the fighter gets Haste.

Silver Crusade

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A simple reach Bard who fights with a longspear is quite combat effective. The caveat is that a lot of damage will come from AoOs, which are ignored for standard DPR calculations. So this build actually performs much better than DPR calculations would suggest.

This is just a Two Handed Weapon Fighter in Bard's clothing who sometimes uses reach tactics. Fewer feats are available, but they are sufficient. The various Bard buffs just about compensate for the difference between a Bard and a Fighter. I believe it's well established that the Two Handed Weapon Fighter wins the DPR Olympics, so that's a good standard.

Spoiler:

STR14+4 DEX14 CON13 INT10 WIS10 CHA15

Feats: Combat Reflexes (H), Improved Initiative (1st), Power Attack (3rd), Flagbearer (5th), other feats hardly matter.

To hit: A 9th level Bard has BaB of +6. A 9th level Fighter will have greater strength, better BaB by +3, & some extra tricks, for about +5 better than the Bard. Guess what? Bardsong (does not stack with Heroism) plus Flagbearer yield a +3 to hit bonus. So to-hit is just shy of a Two Handed Fighter of the same level. Plus, if your team actually has a Fighter, the Bard also buffs the Fighter.

Damage: Base damage using a non-magical longspear, with Power Attack, is only 1D8+12. Consider Flagbearer and Bardsong are we're at 1D8+15. A few magic items (weapon, strength belt, etc) will boost this to roughly 1D8+20 HP damage. While this is less than what a 9th level Fighter would do, it's not that much less. 25 HP average damage per hit is quite respectable. Enlarge Person, from a potion, raises this to about 30 HP damage per attack, if there's time.

Number of attacks: This is where the standard DPR math breaks down. There's no way to account for AoOs, even though they'll be most of your damage. Typical combat action will be move 15' from the foe then cast a spell then see if the foe is too cowardly to approach. One way to model this is to cast Haste on Round One. This gives three attacks per round at +x/+x/+(x-5), each inflicting about 25 HP per attack. When facing multiple opponents, where one gets multiple AoOs, damage spikes impressively.

The maximum damage this sort of Bard dishes out in one round is about 150 HP. That's a hasted full attack for 3 attacks, then 3 AoOs, each inflicting 25 HP damage. Typical rounds will be half that or less.

If one adds in PFS-legal, but non-standard, magic items like Banner of the Ancient Kings, then all the above to-hit and damage numbers increase by an additional +2. For the entire party, not just for the Bard.

This sort of Bard can inflict about 150 HP damage in a round at 9th level. Actual DPR is much lower. Actual damage output will be somewhere in between, since DPR calculations ignore AoOs. This is definitely a bit less than a dedicated THW Fighter, but not that much less.

Counting both personal damage output plus buffs to party, this sort of Bard typically deals a lot more damage than a comparable THW Fighter. Again, note that the THW Fighter is the champion of the DPR Olympics. This is not a wimpy Bard! This sort of PC might have a Day Job as Flagbearer, Medic, and Entertainer for a mercenary company that fights as a Pike Square (note the flags, and the utter dominance of the attacking pike square). Pike formations (and related reach tactics) dominated most European and Asian battlefields for about 400 years, and only became obsolete when advanced firearms became common.

Silver Crusade

The reach bard is a good suggestion. Emphasizing AOOs will cut the cost of spending the odd standard action buffing or casting other spells, and you'll decrease the damage you take by a bit due to positioning. The banner of the ancient kings is a silly item but it's way too good to pass up!

To get even more attacks, use the <fortuitous> weapon property from the Advanced Class Guide. Once per round when you AOO, you get a second attack at -5. An iterative AOO, and only a +1 enchantment bonus! Can't be beat.

All told, reach may be the way to go for melee dpr with the bard.


Magda, and for the rest of Reach bardbarians out there:

Line in the Sand. If you can somehow get this spell, and get your team to move back with you leaving the affected area just before you, you could reliably use your Charisma for number of AoO, allowing for a focus on STR/CHA vs Dex.

Example:

Cast Line in the Sand. Move action into your song. 5 foot step back.
P for Player, o for no effect, - for Line in the Sand effect.

ooooooooo
ooo---ooo
ooo-P-ooo
ooo---ooo
ooooooooo

5ft/move back

ooooooooo
ooo---ooo
ooo---ooo
ooo-P-ooo
ooooooooo

I would consider this in hallways for anyone that uses a reach weapon.

As for other reach builds, a Whip with Slashing Grace build should do a lot of damage from very far away.


Play a bard. Retrain to power attack barbarian. ;)


Magda Luckbender wrote:

A simple reach Bard who fights with a longspear is quite combat effective. The caveat is that a lot of damage will come from AoOs, which are ignored for standard DPR calculations. So this build actually performs much better than DPR calculations would suggest.

I love longspear Bards, they fulfill the buffer + secondary combatant roll exceptionally well. But...

Have they errata'd Flagbearer to work with flags attached to lances and longspears and other polearms? Because in my printing it's worded "You must hold the flag in one hand in order to grant this bonus."

On the plus side, the attack bonuses from Heroism (morale) and Inspire Courage (competence) do indeed stack. The save bonuses don't, though, and Bless doesn't stack with Heroism.

Finally, while reach weapons are great and open up a lot of tactics, after playing two Cavaliers and an Inquisitor of Shelyn, I can't say I get multiple AoOs consistently. Usually it's only one or two a combat: You generally have to expose yourself and either make yourself a target or make the enemies move past you to get to their targets, and strength based D8 classes are just too squishy for that.


Here is the build skeleton for my Aasimar PFS bard.

Quick Math at level 9:

Initiative: +13 +2dex, +4 feat, +4 banner, +1 ioun stone, +2 trait

Round 1 Accelerated Drink Enlarge Potion, Cast Haste
Round 2: Start Performance as move and vital strike as standard
Round 3: Full Attack.

Vital Strike Attack:
+18 +6 BAB, +6 Str, +2 Flag, +4 Song, +1 Haste, +1 weapon, -2 PA
Damage 4d6+22 (+9 1.5 Str, +2 Flag, +4 Song, +1 Weapon, +6 PA)

Full Attack
+18 2d6+22
+18 2d6+22
+13 2d6+22

This just assumes a +1 weapon, with the spear being an arcane bond one could easily assume a bigger + weapon.

Potentially +2 to hit from long duration heroism buff as well as other bard goodies.


Race: Half-Elf
Racial Traits: Use Ancestral Arms to get Falcata proficiency.
Attribute distribution: 18/13/13/7/7/14
Attribute bonus: +2 STR
Pips (4th, 8th): +1 STR, +1 STR
--------------------------------------------------------
Archetype: Voice of the Wild
Feats: 1. Desperate Battler; 3. Power Attack; 5. Weapon Focus (Falcata); 7. Cornugon Smash; 9. Hurtful (the reason why we aren't using Arcane Strike...)
--------------------------------------------------------
Weapon: +3 keen Falcata
--------------------------------------------------------
Tactics:
- If able to prebuff, use Song of the Wild as a move action to get a +4 enhancement to Strength; then cast, as a standard action, Haste on yourself.
- Full-attack target with Power Attack on and activate Desperate Battler by having no allies within 10 feet when you attack...
+18/+18/+18 (done as a swift action through Hurtful)/+13 with Haste/Song of the Wild, dealing 1d8+13 each hit, critting at a 17-20/3 range.
--------------------------------------------------------
So with one round of buffing, this guy can deal 71.4 DPR, assuming he hits the intimidate, which he should in most cases.

Cool thing about it is that you get Druid/Ranger spells, so if you have more time, you can toss in Barkskin/Nereid's Grace/Cat's Grace for a good amount of armor; Lead Blades helps too in the damage front; but a wand of enlarge person should make you truly OP.

This build is also doable with other archetypes... Archaeologist is a pretty good choice too, as well as Ultimate Combat's Dervish Dancer.


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My bard does 5 points of damage every time a party member hits.


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Vod Canockers wrote:
My bard does 5 points of damage every time a party member hits.

Whenever you cast haste that extra attack is your damage - dont ever let them forget that! They are wet towels without us, just average adventurers with airs of grandeur. We make them shine and not die (so often).

We give them attacks, hit, damage, rerolls, funny jokes /perform and make enemies feel insufficient, disorderly and lacking.

They are but our pawns!

What? No why would I do your laundry, wizard. Oh yes right 20 inititive and save or die. Of course your robes will be ready for tomorrow Sir.

Silver Crusade

@Akerlof—I share your concern about standard Flagbearer. Quick look suggests you can't fight with it on a long spear. The Banner of the Ancient Kings works, though, so you may just need to delay the flagvearer feat till you can swing the 18,000 gp item.

@Secret Wizard—dang, that Hurtful feat! Hadn't seen it before. Looks like an excellent combo for a bard ...

Unrelated, a +4 weapon (32,000 gp) seems a bit high for a lvl 9 character (42,000 wbl). Might need to tone that down.

RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32

I might steal that Cornugon Smash/Hurtful for my Shark-Man Synthesist.

His Intimidate won't fail:
Actual in-combat dialogue:
.
.
Synth: Whats' worse than finding a worm in your apple?
Mook: I... I don't know!
Synth: GETTING BITTEN IN HALF!


Chris, I f%%~ed up doing the calculations for damage for the Hurtful build.

...I forgot to add Power Attack damage. So that's 1d8+19 per hit.

Anyway, build's better for a Bard than a Synthesist I think, who should be busy getting as many natural attacks as possible, right?

Shadow Lodge

Pirate Rob wrote:

Here is the build skeleton for my Aasimar PFS bard.

Quick Math at level 9:

Initiative: +13 +2dex, +4 feat, +4 banner, +1 ioun stone, +2 trait

Round 1 Accelerated Drink Enlarge Potion, Cast Haste

Banner of Ancient Kings wrote:


As long as the longspear or pole to which the banner is attached is firmly wielded in two hands, its carrier gains a +4 circumstance bonus on Initiative checks.
Accelerated Drinker wrote:
You may drink a potion as a move action instead of a standard action as long as you start your turn with the potion in your hand.

Either you get the Enlarge Potion as Move Action in the first round or a +4 to initiative, but not both as you would need 3 hands ;)

Silver Crusade

Regarding Flagbearer: I don't have a horse in this race, in that none of my PFS characters have ever taken the flagbearer feat. That said, this Bard made a Bardic Knowledge role and declares it silly, pedantic, and counter to both RAW and RAI to not allow a Flagbearer to mount a Flag on a Longspear. You silly padoodles! That's how it was done! Here's a Bard's Blistering Invective targeted at those who don't accept a Flagbearer on a Longspear. :-)

Again, the 'must hold in one hand' clause is intended to prevent this, which would allow the Flagbearer to just ignore the flag. This is perfectly OK. Note how holding the Flag with two hands means you also hold the flag with one hand. Note how the shape of the modern flagpole is derived from a longspear!

Silver Crusade

I don't care to get into a debate about Flagbearer. It's a bit of a distraction from the main topic of the thread and I don't have a ton of patience for rules-forum debates these days anyway.

But I will say a couple things. First (1), that I'm mostly interested in the minimal claim—that it seems reasonable to expect table variation on the question, and that any player with Flag+Longspear should anticipate the possibility and be prepared to handle it gracefully. Second (2), that it seems a defensible, even a reasonable, interpretation of the rules to suppose that Flag+Longspear does not work, by the rules as written. It's not a *crazy* reading. So I strongly object to your unnecessarily combative characterization of such an interpretation as "silly, pedantic, and counter to both RAW and RAI." Quite the contrary, I'd say!

But since flagging the issue with an "expect table variation" warning is enough for the purposes of this thread (considering different bard builds), why don't we all agree to let it go for now and take up the question in a different thread if folks would like to continue discussing it?

(And, just to save others the trouble of searching if they're interested, here are the relevant links: <Flagbearer>, <Banner of the Ancient Kings>.)

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