First time playing Pathfinder


Advice

Grand Lodge

A little history: I'm 39, started playing basic D&D in the 80's. Played 1e and 2e, and a tiny bit of 3e, then stopped.

I have recently played a couple of sessions of 5e as well.

Anyway, I'm playing my first Pathfinder game in a few hours. I am pretty much settled on playing a fighter. It's always been my favorite class and I figure I may as well stick with what I know.

I'm aiming for a versatile character, not a one-trick pony. After searching these boards, I think that means going with a character who can switch from a two handed melee weapon (I keep seeing falchion mentioned, but I don't know what that is) to a bow easily.

I was told I will start at 2nd level. I was told to use 20 points to create my character. I was told to take 2 traits from the trait list (one of each kind).

I don't normally do this, but the rules are overwhelming me right now.

Can anybody help me pick out some traits, some stat advice, some racial advice, and/or give me any other kind of advice?

I'm not asking for some "ultimate build" here. I just don't want to bring a gimped liability character to my first game.

Thanks!!

Sovereign Court

Well, to keep it simple:

Human Slayer level 2
Focus on strength and con mostly.

feats: Power Attack, Quick Draw, Slayer Ranger combat style (Archery) grab rapid shot at level 2.

That's pretty much it and quite simple to be quite honest, Use a Greatsword + a composite longbow.

As for traits no worries, yeah some traits are stronger than others but heh, it will not break the game.


Sorry, but just saying "play a slayer" when the OP asks for advice on building a fighter because it's always been his favourite class seems a little disrespectful. Not that Slayer doesn't have a few one-ups on the fighter (such as actually having skill points to spend), but it's not the advice he asked for.

Eltacolibre's feat advice doesn't seem too bad, and I can't disagree with the choice of greatsword. Hold back on the quick draw, though - at level two you won't be needing a full attack other than for rapid shot, and with +1 BAB or higher you can draw a weapon as part of movement, so moving and getting an attack is not an issue.

Going for rapid shot as a fighter will take up 2 out of your 3 or 4 feats though, and I would suggest going for precise shot as well to offset the -4 penalty for shooting into melee if you're going for archery.
Do note that there is no risk of hitting your allies when shooting into melee, whether you have that feat or not. You just take the -4 penalty to hit if you don't.

Two traits that might be of interest are Reactionary for a +2 bonus on initiative, and to a lesser degree Armor Expert, which decreases the armor check penalty for any armor you wear by 1. They are both combat traits though, so you can only have one of the two.

Grand Lodge

Awesome, thanks already guys!

What about stats? I think I should prioritize STR and CON, then DEX and WIS, and 8-10 in INT and CHA. Sound about right?


If you're going melee over ranged, then that sounds reasonable. If you want ranged to be your primary focus, you should probably prioritise dex over the other stats (but otherwise in approximately the same order) and look into some lighter armour than what you'll most likely end up with for a melee focus.

Grand Lodge

Cool, thanks.

And if I were to choose a polearm instead of a two handed sword, would I need to switch anything?


Read the Guides in the Advice section, first off. Those have been a huge help to me coming into this system!

And see if your GM is going to be flexible with your build for the first few sessions. I don't lock my players in until after we've played 2 games so they can try them out and see what is working for them and what isn't.

Yeah, your stat distribution is about right. Pretty straightforward there.


Welcome back Krunchyfrogg. I also played 1e and 2e then left for a long time before getting into Pathfinder when I was 49. I personally feel the Pathfinder is the pick of the litter. I hope you have as much fun on your return as I did.


I think thr advice to play a Slayer is a pretty good one. They are similar enough that the OP's character concept won't suffer. Admitedly, he won't be proficient with heavy armor, but since he wants a good Dex for archery, medium armor is his best choice anyway...

I'd go with half-elf, actually... Although human and half-orc are good too.

Here's a quick build:

Half-Elf (You can replace your bonus Skill Focus feat for a +2 to Will saves. I strongly recommend you do that, since Will is your weak save and failing one can and will have deadly consequences).

Start with a Falchion or Greatsword and a Longbow (Str modifier +4, later on you can buy the Adaptive enhancement for a mere 1000gp. That makes the bow adapt to your Str modifier whenever it changes). For armor, buy a Breastplate (upgrade tp a Mithral one once your Dex hits 18 thanks to your magic belt. I advise you to get a belt that adds a +2 to all physical attributes before getting one that gives you a +4).

Traits: Indomitable Faith (+1 to Will saves) and Reactionary (+2 to Initiative)

Str 18 (16 from point buy +2 from race) Dex 14 Con 14 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 08

Skill Points: I suggest you max out Perception, Stealth, Intimidate, Acrobatics, Knowledge (Dungeon) and... Well... That's actually all you need. Have fun with whatever skill points you have left. Invest in something you like or that GM says will be useful. I particularly enjoy having Bluff and Linguistics. Those are always fun and useful. Diplomacy is really freaking good too, although your party most likely has someone to take care of that...

Favored Class Bonus: Notice that every level in your favored class (whicj os whatever class you choose, generally your 1st one) you get an extra HP or skill point. I think grtting the skill point is more useful and interesting, but the HP is not bad either. Which one you pick is mostly a matter of personal preference.

Level 1 - feat: Power Attack (and Quick Draw the character is Human)
Level 2 - Slayer Talent: Ranger Combat Style (Archery): Rapid Shot.
Level 3 - feat Quick Draw (unless you already have it, in which case I recommend Combat Reflexes)

That should do it... People love recommending Weapon Focus... But honestly, it's mostly insignificant and extremelly boring. You have high Strength and Full BAB, unledd Weapon Focus is a prerequisite for a feat you want, you really don't need it.

Grand Lodge

Where can I find this Slayer class?

Scarab Sages

Advanced class guide. Here's the SRD link so you can see the details of it yourself.


Slayer


I'm not saying slayer is a bad substitute, people are just too quick about dismissing the fighter altogether. As such I don't mind the suggestion that he might want to look at the slayer, but I have a problem with it being the very first thing that is said without giving any consideration to the question at hand (how to make a fighter), or at least an explanation of why slayer might be preferable.

I also don't understand this conception that fighters in heavy armour don't want dexterity. If any heavily armoured classes do, it's the fighter. At level 3 they can have an AC of 21 solely from their dex and a regular full plate. Even with the much cheaper banded mail, the fighter can reach 19 AC if he has at least +2 dex. That is the same as the maximum other classes will get from any combination of high dex and medium armour.
Then again at 7th level, the fighter gets to add another point of dexterity to his AC. Now he can benefit from the +9 armor bonus of a full plate, and the +3 from dex afforded by a medium armour such as the breast plate. At this level he'll also have the same ACP as someone wearing a breast plate, unless he can get his hands on a hellknight plate, in which case he'll actually be better off on that front.

Scarab Sages

I will chime in though and say that if you've got a lot of experience in RPGs and know that you want to play a vanilla fighter, then play a vanilla fighter. The slayer might be strictly more powerful, but it's not going to feel like a fighter.

Easy competent human fighter using a great sword:

STR: 16 DEX: 13 CON: 14 INT: 10 WIS: 12 CHA: 10

Put your +2 racial into strength so that it's 18.

For second level, you're getting 4 feats as a fighter:
Power attack (-1 to hit, +2 to damage when you turn it on in melee)
Point blank shot (+1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at ranges of up to 30 feet)
Precise shot (don't take a -4 penalty shooting into melee)
Improved initiative (+4 to initiative)

For traits, very common ones are reactionary (+2 to initiative). I like taking a colorful one that makes some knowledge skill I like for roleplay reasons a class skill. Basically, you can't go wrong with traits for the most part. Unless you're making some specific power build taking advantage of a particular trait, then they're allowing you to slightly customize the character.

This isn't the most powerful of builds, but it hits the sweet spots of what you're asking for: great sword, ability to competently switch to range.

Sovereign Court

Slayer is a hybrid class of fighter, so not really that far off but anyway, Slayer comes with all the tools of the fighter + Sneak Attack+ Studied target + more skills and also the ability to pick and choose ranger combat style (ignoring requirement on feats, so avoiding some tax feats) or even pick rogue talent.

Frankly Slayer is a just a solid package, even for a beginner without much experience with 3.X (he only played a few sessions of it). Yes he could play fighter and quite frankly there is nothing wrong with it and is quite effective on his own, but from my own personal experience, you have so many feats, you usually don't know what to do with most of them unless you are going for some obscure combat styles.


Err Slayer is Ranger and Rogue.


Eltacolibre wrote:

Slayer is a hybrid class of fighter, so not really that far off but anyway, Slayer comes with all the tools of the fighter + Sneak Attack+ Studied target + more skills and also the ability to pick and choose ranger combat style (ignoring requirement on feats, so avoiding some tax feats) or even pick rogue talent.

Frankly Slayer is a just a solid package, even for a beginner without much experience with 3.X (he only played a few sessions of it). Yes he could play fighter and quite frankly there is nothing wrong with it and is quite effective on his own, but from my own personal experience, you have so many feats, you usually don't know what to do with most of them unless you are going for some obscure combat styles.

This is exactly what I would've liked to see in that first post :)

EDIT: Also, Shadowbinder is right.


My advice would be to stick with Fighter until you get used to the Pathfinder system. Once your comfortable with the way combat works, then you play a Slayer or one of the other hybrid classes.

Duiker is right on the money about his Ability Scores and Feat selection.

Grand Lodge

Thanks everybody.

I had a lot of fun today.

Where can I find this slayer class?


Remember Raiders of the Lost Ark? The swordsman that gets shot by Indy is using a falchion. It's not far off from a greatsword, but has a curve to it.

Similar to a scimitar, but for two hands.

Sovereign Court

Slayer class is in the Advanced Class Guide, also can be found on the paizo official srd or the d20pfsrd.com.

Grand Lodge

Thanks a lot everybody. Now onto my first PFS character.

Do I try this Slayer out?

Do I build a Ranger who uses a Great Sword and takes archery fighting style?

Do I rebuild a more specialized great weapon fighter?

Maybe a polearm master?

A dual wielding Rogue?

An archer? A paladin archer?

The possibilities are endless!


if you still want to keep it simple. go with fighter. take heavy blades as a weapon group focus on a graetsowrd and throwing chakrams. just str build with power attack should get you very nicly as long as you keep your game on(weapon feats for the greatsowrd and maybe take a manuver feat like imp.overrun to boost with)

even with point buy system, gettin g17 for str will only cost 13 points. should be enough to leave other atributes with a nice plus. then at level l4 increase again. if you got +2 to str from race. a +2 str belt and a +1 graetsowrd.
at level 5 with power attack,weapon focus,weapon specilazation and heavy weapon group youd get :
to hit: 5(bab) +1(magic weapon) +6 (str) +1 (weaopn focus) +1 (weapon group) -2 (power attack) total of +12(or +14 without power attack)

and damage of : 2d6+1 (weapon) +9 (1.5 sr) +1 (weapon group) +2(weapon spec) +6 (power attack) = 2d6 +19 damage on each hit. which is very nice for a 5th level(and this is unbuffed).
the chakram will be a bit less : 5+(whatever dex you got) +1 (weapon group) to hit 6+dex.
damage 1d8+6+1. again a nice damage output ofr range attacks.


Quote:
I'm aiming for a versatile character, not a one-trick pony. After searching these boards, I think that means going with a character who can switch from a two handed melee weapon (I keep seeing falchion mentioned, but I don't know what that is) to a bow easily.

If you're looking at going primarily two handed melee, but using a bow as a backup (as opposed to some kind of thrown blade), look at getting the adaptive weapon quality on it.

From d20pfsrd.com:

Quote:
An adaptive bow responds to the strength of its wielder, acting as a bow with a strength rating equal to its wielder's Strength bonus. The wielder can fire it with a lesser Strength bonus (and cause less damage) if desired.

That way, no matter how high your strength gets (which, if you're focusing on two handed melee, should be pretty high), you can always take full advantage of it with your bow's damage, rather than having to get a new bow every time your strength rating increases. It's only 1000 gp added to the cost of the weapon, so it's not too hard to get relatively quickly. You'll still want to have decent Dex for the bow's attack bonus.


When someone asks for a Fighter, they usually want an armored guy who relies on his martial mastery rather than magic. A competent warrior whose discilpline and skill are enough for him to survive and thrive in a world where all sorts of magic creatures exist. IMHO, Slayers fulfill that role far better than Fighter.

I really recommend the Slayer class... It's a pretty simple class but also very forgiving. You get 2 good saves, tons of skill points to fool around and easy access to Ranger combat styles, which are very straight-forward and can ignore prerequisites.

It's pretty hard to mess up a Slayer. Fighter... Not so much... It requires you to know feat chains very well and when to pick each feat. Its lack of skill points mean you better know what are the most valuable skills and hope you don't need/want anything else (at least without investing in Int, a mostly meaningless attribute for the class).

Honestly... Ranger is probably the best class to learn Pathfinder. Players can gradually learn how to use spells and companions without being overwhelmed by them, have a forgiving innate feat guide and lots of skill points to play with.

Slayer is not quite as complete as a "tutorial class", but they do teach the ins and outs of martial classes very well.

Seriously... Go with Slayer. You'll be (at very least) just as effective as a Fighter in combat and vastly superior on everything else... And I speak from experience, both personal and observed: Having nothing relevant to do out of combat is really freaking boring! You'll miss those extra skill points. Also, Sneak Attack and Studied Target require a little bit more of active input rather than being just passive bonuses like Weapon Training... IMHO, that makes them more fun to use.


If you want simple, go with javelin. You get your strength modifier added to damage, and the range is good enough for most things.

Also, super cheap, you can have a few right away.

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