Untargeted Ray Attacks and Misses: Does the Ray Continue


Rules Questions


A monster projects an untargeted ray attack down a 5 foot wide corridor in which it suspects there are a number of characters which for any number of possible reasons it cannot see.

Each character has concealment 50%, and a reflex save vs this particular effect. Do they also gain mutual cover increasing from front to back?

What happens?

1) Does the ray have the chance to affect every single character out to it's maximum range?
2) Does it keep going until one of the characters fails a save?
3) What about partial saves and evasion etc.
4) Do characters at the back get bonuses on saves because of cover from their friends upwind of the ray?

Sorry if this has been asked before but I just can't find it.

Supplementary question: What if it was missile? Same potential issues.


Please specify what monster has an untargeted ray.

To my knowledge all rays are targeted, they have an attack roll which makes them targeted.

Quote:
Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don't have to see the creature you're trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature at which you're aiming.

Assuming that the ray is targeted, no it does not continue on with a chance of hitting someone else. A miss is a miss, and does not have a chance to hit anyone else, barring a special ability that says so.

Now, if it is not a ray then I would need to see the text of the specific ability.


Thanks for replying. It is in this case a Retriever.


Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don't have to see the creature you're trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell . Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature at which you're aiming.


gwolf wrote:
Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don't have to see the creature you're trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell . Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature at which you're aiming.

Right, all that means is that just like a creature using melee against an invisible creature you can attempt to hit them at a 50% miss chance.

But if it misses, it still just misses and nothing else happens.

Edit: Looking at the retriever, yeah it's just a normal ray. Just like scorching ray.

You must target a specific creature, and if you miss then nothing happens. You can target a creature you can't see, but then you will also incur a 50% miss chance.


gwolf wrote:

A monster projects an untargeted ray attack down a 5 foot wide corridor in which it suspects there are a number of characters which for any number of possible reasons it cannot see.

Each character has concealment 50%, and a reflex save vs this particular effect. Do they also gain mutual cover increasing from front to back?

What happens?

1) Does the ray have the chance to affect every single character out to it's maximum range?
2) Does it keep going until one of the characters fails a save?
3) What about partial saves and evasion etc.
4) Do characters at the back get bonuses on saves because of cover from their friends upwind of the ray?

Sorry if this has been asked before but I just can't find it.

Supplementary question: What if it was missile? Same potential issues.

Rays are not Lines in game terms. You're thinking of a Line (continuing on for a prescribed length, hitting everything in its path).

Rays are not missiles, either, like Arrows, spears, or any other Projectiles.

Rays are targeted energy strikes that either hit their target or not.

They do not get deflected naturally (some abilities CAN deflect rays, though), nor do they have a Miss Chance.

You do not get penalties for shooting a Ray into Combat.

When you fire a Ray spell, you choose a target. You then will the spell into existence, acting as a targeting computer, setting the object you want to hit. When you launch the spell, it has a very specific target, will weave and duck around all objects impeding it to get to that target, assuming you have Line of Sight, and will only activate it's effects (usually an Earth-Shattering Kaboom! upon impact) when it hits its prescribed target.

There is a chance your target can actually avoid the spell (thus the Touch AC check), in which case the spell simply fizzles because its target wasn't reached, without fear of (naturally) hitting something else because you missed.


To use a ray when you don't know where the target is you select a square and then roll 50% miss chance and the attack roll.
If the target is in that square AND the 50% miss chance is good AND you hit the touch AC then your attack hits. Note: many GMs will roll the 50% miss chance for you so that you don't know if the creature was in that square or not.

If it misses it does nothing and does not have a chance of hitting other creatures.

chbgraphicarts, please cite the rule that states that rays (ranged touch attacks) do not suffer the shooting into melee penalty.
Rays are still ranged attacks and follow all rules for ranged attacks regarding targeting, miss chances, cover, and shooting into melee.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
gwolf wrote:

A monster projects an untargeted ray attack down a 5 foot wide corridor in which it suspects there are a number of characters which for any number of possible reasons it cannot see.

Each character has concealment 50%, and a reflex save vs this particular effect. Do they also gain mutual cover increasing from front to back?

What happens?

1) Does the ray have the chance to affect every single character out to it's maximum range?
2) Does it keep going until one of the characters fails a save?
3) What about partial saves and evasion etc.
4) Do characters at the back get bonuses on saves because of cover from their friends upwind of the ray?

Sorry if this has been asked before but I just can't find it.

Supplementary question: What if it was missile? Same potential issues.

1. Not any more than a arrow shot would. If you must... annihilate some innocent by-standing squirrel with it.

2. No, see 1. above.

3. No, see 2 above

4. No, see 3 above.

5. No, see 4 above.

Ranged attacks either hit their intended target, or they hit nothing, save for special rules regarding thrown items such as flasks or bombs.


Interesting, though I am still unconvinced because in the Retriever description it does not specify that it is a touch attack, just a reflex save. That is why I am leaning towards it being a bit more like a lightning bolt.

If it acted according to lightning bolt rules then all good, If it said the eye rays(su) was a touch attack then all good, but it doesn't....

So I fall between the cracks in the pavement of rules, hence the question.

Maybe this is a Retriever question rather than a Ray question.


Sorry, my bad, Retriever does say "Special Attacks eye rays (+16 ranged touch)" in the main block rather than the eye rays (su) section which I was focusing on.

Thanks for the input, it is now clear, sorry to waste time,

so many details to read.... (


Yeah, the rules don't handle this very well.

Rules say you have to target a square and can only potentially hit or miss something in that square. By the RAW, something invisible can be standing directly in front of you, and if you target the square behind it in a straight line you always miss. You could be shooting through an invisible paralyzed Tarrasque and if your targeted square is one square too far back, that ray/arrow apparently magically teleports around it to miss.

Again, it makes no sense and is likely not RAI, but it is RAW.

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