The Oracle or the Shaman, Which to choose?


Advice


So i am playing the jade regent AP and as always i am paranoid about character death so i have a wonderful backup character in mind, a kami-blessed kitsune based around fire, the main issue i am running into is picking a class, both the Oracle and Shaman look good, Oracle has the Charisma synergy with the race, whereas the Shaman is something i have been wanting to play and also has its own interesting perks, the statblock i have to work with is as such (before racial mods, can be arranged however i like) 16, 16, 14, 14, 14, 13


With those stats and your desire to play a shaman I'd just say go for it.


one thing i am confused about, you arent allowed to switch animals as a shaman, but if i take improved familiar is there any way to be able to switch to one of those? I am asking because if i go shaman i would love to get a Kami as my spirit familiar and it would fit really well


A shaman doesn't qualify for Improved Familiar without dipping (well you do, you just can't pick anything) since you have 0 Arcane Spellcaster Levels. So RAW no. And even then, since you can't switch I'd say that precludes Improved Familiar RAW. That being said you can try asking your GM.


Anzyr wrote:
A shaman doesn't qualify for Improved Familiar without dipping (well you do, you just can't pick anything) since you have 0 Arcane Spellcaster Levels. So RAW no. And even then, since you can't switch I'd say that precludes Improved Familiar RAW. That being said you can try asking your GM.

ignoring the derpiness with the arcane spellcaster level, are there any ways that can be used to swap?

Liberty's Edge

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Actually, I think Improved Familiar is valid. or at least intended to be. It doesn't say "Arcane Caster Level" as a prerequisite, it says "Arcane Spellcaster Level", which means it's the class levels that matter, not having an arcane caster level. Since you count your shaman levels as wizard levels for the purposes of the familiar, and those are arcane spellcaster levels, you should qualify for it. Then again, if I were being a stickler I would say that it doesn't say to count them as such for the purposes of pre-requisites, but that's just silly.

However, even with it you'll have trouble due to the "spirit animal cannot be changed" limitation of shaman; due to that I would rule that the only modification you could make would be to add the celestial, resolution, entropic, or fiendish template. These do not modify the sort of creature, so they don't violate that limitation. (That said, I remember hearing it stated that Improved Familiar is supposed to be a 1-time "pass" on such restrictions, but that's not RAW.)


So i had also asked for advice on another forum, and an interesting third option was presented, apparently oracles have an archetype that gets shaman spirits called the Spirit Guide, so that is a wonderful solution to my trouble, if you have any advice for a fire-based blaster oracle i would appreciate it

Liberty's Edge

Hazrond wrote:
So i had also asked for advice on another forum, and an interesting third option was presented, apparently oracles have an archetype that gets shaman spirits called the Spirit Guide, so that is a wonderful solution to my trouble, if you have any advice for a fire-based blaster oracle i would appreciate it

If your campaign is going to have lots of outsiders in it, get Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration. Otherwise your blasts will be hitting 3 layers of defenses: SR, Resist/Immunity, Saving Throws. Even then I would recommend having indirect-fire backup plans. Being an elf, or a half-elf that takes Elven Spirit, also helps against SR.

Be sure to take flame strike as one of your lvl 5 spells. It's more narrow than other blasting spells, but half of it ignores fire resistance, which is very important if the DM throws fire immune creatures at you.

Firestorm is a good revelation since it ignores SR entirely and is shapeable. Still have to deal with fire resistance/immunity, though.

Molten Skin is good in case you end up caught in one of your own blasts (esp. if you take burning magic). Eventually you can fireball yourself and take nothing. Also, if the DM throws fire-resistant/immune creatures at you, there's a good chance they'll be dealing fire damage. This helps you avoid getting double-screwed.

Gaze of Flames makes the use of fog spells much better, like obscuring mist, since you can see through them unimpeded. It doesn't help your allies much, though. Unfortunately, obscuring mist burns away if you use an AoE fire spell, but it can lay down cover for other spells.

Don't pigeonhole yourself. Have that 1 fire spell per spell level, maybe 2 if there's a second really good one, but never neglect to pick up the other useful spells in those levels. And if blasting looks like it might not be a good idea, use 'em. A well-planned enemy is a single 2nd level spell away from negating most of your blasting, so you *must* have a backup.

Liberty's Edge

Also, this may sound stupid, but do NOT pick "Flame" as the spirit you bond to if you pick Flame as your Oracle mystery. The spell choices overlap entirely (so you basically don't gain new spells for it) and the spirit abilities are not very good (the resistance is outright worse than Molten Skin, for example).

There aren't really any choices that synergize too well with Flame that I can see, so you might use the spirit as the way to pick up your secondary shtick.


If you are going Spirit Guide Oracle, how about mixing up the Heavens mystery with the Flame spirit for when you want to blast? Heavens gives you a way to spam Color Spray 'till Rovagug rips Golarion a second one, and with mindless stuff or things that plain doesn't work with it you'll have your flame on.

If you choose the blackened curse you'll have some slight spell overlap, but it'll pretty much give you everything worth choosing combined with the Flame spirit fire-wise, but still have some fire for when you feel like having a different spirit over. You know, lets you be a flexible person, despite your spontaneousness.

Sovereign Court

With stats like that it would be quite a shame to not play a shaman. It will give you all the flavor that you were looking for with the choice to be and do whatever you want.


Pounce wrote:
If you are going Spirit Guide Oracle, how about mixing up the Heavens mystery with the Flame spirit for when you want to blast? Heavens gives you a way to spam Color Spray 'till Rovagug rips Golarion a second one, and with mindless stuff or things that plain doesn't work with it you'll have your flame on.

I would rather stick to some sort of fire theme with my mystery, haven't decided on Solar vs Flame, and use the spirit for flexibility, stealing sorcerer/wizard spells is pretty sweet :3

Quote:
If you choose the blackened curse you'll have some slight spell overlap, but it'll pretty much give you everything worth choosing combined with the Flame spirit fire-wise, but still have some fire for when you feel like having a different spirit over. You know, lets you be a flexible person, despite your spontaneousness.

While i like the fire spells on the blackened curse the fluff and the penalty are pretty harsh, atm the current frontrunner for the curse is Tongues if anybody has any better ideas i would love to hear them (No haunted though)


any advice on what i should do with my feats? I have absolutely no idea what to do for level 3 onwards (Maybe Extra Revelation once or twice to recoup the loss of the revelations?)

Liberty's Edge

Extra Revelation, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, Spell Focus (Evocation), Mage's Tattoo (Evocation), Spell Specialization (Your favorite blasting spell), Divine Protection, Noble Scion (Scion of War)

Those are all useful ones I can think of of the top of my head. Divine Protection is, IMO, OP. But it's legal.


Would it be a bad idea to go Solar mystery with Flame spirit?


I am unsure, the main thematic core of the char is that they are blessed by a powerful kami lord, specifically the one who governs the sun, so i am unsure of what fits best, both thematically and mechanically


Heavens fits stars, as does Solar, and Flame would also fit thematically


Any advice? i am really unsure of what mystery to choose, i could go Solar and keep Flame as my spirit, or go Flame mystery and swap between spirits daily, or i could even go Heavens with Flame spirit

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