TEO Cheatle Goblin Squad Member |
Bluddwolf Goblin Squad Member |
Gol Tigari wrote:I tried to get a peek in there, but the security was pretty tight. My reputation must have spread from TSV because even the trainers there said my rep was too low, haven't tried again since raising my rep slightly ( finally around -3800 last night!!)My goodness! Recovered to -3800? You really have been a busy guy. :)
Out of curiosity, could you (or anyone else knowledgable) clue me in on the rep loss calculations, as they stand now. Or could you provide a link to the latest?
Many thx, Scary Shadow Man
Max Rep +7500 killing another Max Rep +7500 = loses 1200 Rep for kill
Rep +6900 hitting twice a Max Rep +7500 = loses another 800 RepRecovery rate is 30 Rep per hour as a base (not sure if that scales).
The problem is, it is impossible to know exactly what you will lose (and with broken PVP windows, when you may lose) and so you can't really make an accurate risk assessment.
Now, I of course expect to hear the "arbitrary and capricious" defense to be brought up. That could also be argued reflective of a system that is lazy, broken, unfair or ineffective in producing optimal results.
Optimal results means making a meaningful choice based on known factors of risk vs. reward.
Gol Guurzak Goblin Squad Member |
Capitalocracy Goblin Squad Member |
I'm certainly not arguing you should expect to lose rep in a fight in a hex with an open PVP window, that's very unfortunate, but we're still playing a game with feature rollouts and bugs and all that. My argument is that a game where killing people means a rep hit which affects your ability to train is literally the game we all signed up for, and there are workarounds and there are things we have to be patient for. It would be fun to train something and see that kind of character improvement on a daily basis, but soon it'll be weeks and months before we're training our next big thing, which gives you plenty of time to do a lot of PVP as long as you're willing to bank in your smallholding or Rotter's Hole. Are the numbers right on target? Probably not, and I haven't been doing PVP, so I can't really say, but we're seeing people on both sides of the argument complaining that the rep system is either too harsh or too lenient. I'd hate to be in the devs' shoes on that one figuring out which side is right, but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt for now. Maybe rep is too harsh too soon without settlement customization options, maybe rep needs to be harsher because there isn't a formal bounty system yet... it's all a tough balance, but for now, you should plan for the consequences of your PVP according to the rules in place now. But being mad about taking a rep hit in an open PVP window I can definitely sympathize with.
Bluddwolf Goblin Squad Member |
I'm certainly not arguing you should expect to lose rep in a fight in a hex with an open PVP window, that's very unfortunate, but we're still playing a game with feature rollouts and bugs and all that. My argument is that a game where killing people means a rep hit which affects your ability to train is literally the game we all signed up for, and there are workarounds and there are things we have to be patient for. It would be fun to train something and see that kind of character improvement on a daily basis, but soon it'll be weeks and months before we're training our next big thing, which gives you plenty of time to do a lot of PVP as long as you're willing to bank in your smallholding or Rotter's Hole. Are the numbers right on target? Probably not, and I haven't been doing PVP, so I can't really say, but we're seeing people on both sides of the argument complaining that the rep system is either too harsh or too lenient. I'd hate to be in the devs' shoes on that one figuring out which side is right, but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt for now. Maybe rep is too harsh too soon without settlement customization options, maybe rep needs to be harsher because there isn't a formal bounty system yet... it's all a tough balance, but for now, you should plan for the consequences of your PVP according to the rules in place now. But being mad about taking a rep hit in an open PVP window I can definitely sympathize with.
I am not questioning the expected loss of PVP in situations where you should expect to lose Rep. I'm looking at the inability to accurately assume the risk level of your choice.
Now that reputation recovers offline, high reputation is potentially a matter of inactivity. Why should it cost as much to kill a frequently inactive character as it does a character that has had frequent interactions in the game?
A flat rate of loss and regain is what I'm suggesting.
Capitalocracy Goblin Squad Member |
That's a pretty good argument for rep to regenerate only when you're online, but I think GW was responding to complaints from PVP players on that one. I don't think it should necessarily be equal rep loss no matter the target, because then there's no "reward" for being high-rep, but it should be relatively predictable and we should always have access to the numbers. I agree that we need the option to inform ourselves. I also think we should be able to see another player's rep score (if we can't already? If we do I don't know how to do it), because if having max rep isn't visible to other players, what good does it do as a deterrent to bandits? I have max rep because PVP isn't my playstyle, at least not until I've got a more meaningful reason to do it than taking a few odds and ends from someone else's inventory or in the context of consensual skirmishes and duels, but if it were a stat that I could gain some benefit for taking a loss on, or if it required work or XP expenditure to get it to maximum, currently I would see no benefit to maintaining maximum rep. So as of now, if you view rep as currency, spending it means literally nothing until you reach that threshold where it means a LOT.
ZomoZ Goblin Squad Member |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I have spent 20 hours or so gathering peacefully and can count the number of people I have seen outside of towns in that time on one hand, and have never been attacked. The possibility of getting killed in game is greatly blown out of porportion. Currently with the low population I think the possibility of getting pvp killed is significantly less then accidentally skirting some mordant spire or ogres too close and dying
DeciusBrutus Goblinworks Executive Founder |
Capitalocracy wrote:I'm certainly not arguing you should expect to lose rep in a fight in a hex with an open PVP window, that's very unfortunate, but we're still playing a game with feature rollouts and bugs and all that. My argument is that a game where killing people means a rep hit which affects your ability to train is literally the game we all signed up for, and there are workarounds and there are things we have to be patient for. It would be fun to train something and see that kind of character improvement on a daily basis, but soon it'll be weeks and months before we're training our next big thing, which gives you plenty of time to do a lot of PVP as long as you're willing to bank in your smallholding or Rotter's Hole. Are the numbers right on target? Probably not, and I haven't been doing PVP, so I can't really say, but we're seeing people on both sides of the argument complaining that the rep system is either too harsh or too lenient. I'd hate to be in the devs' shoes on that one figuring out which side is right, but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt for now. Maybe rep is too harsh too soon without settlement customization options, maybe rep needs to be harsher because there isn't a formal bounty system yet... it's all a tough balance, but for now, you should plan for the consequences of your PVP according to the rules in place now. But being mad about taking a rep hit in an open PVP window I can definitely sympathize with.I am not questioning the expected loss of PVP in situations where you should expect to lose Rep. I'm looking at the inability to accurately assume the risk level of your choice.
Now that reputation recovers offline, high reputation is potentially a matter of inactivity. Why should it cost as much to kill a frequently inactive character as it does a character that has had frequent interactions in the game?
A flat rate of loss and regain is what I'm suggesting.
Would being able to see exactly how much rep you would lose (or how much someone had) remove enough of the uncertainty? Because making the cost lower to attack someone with low Reputation is a primary goal of the system and making the loss flat would significantly weaken that.
Black Moria Goblin Squad Member |
I have spent 20 hours or so gathering peacefully and can count the number of people I have seen outside of towns in that time on one hand, and have never been attacked. The possibility of getting killed in game is greatly blown out of porportion. Currently with the low population I think the possibility of getting pvp killed is significantly less then accidentally skirting some mordant spire or ogres too close and dying
That would be a bad inference to make. There are 'hot zones' all over the map for both traffic and PvP. If that is your experience to date, you clearly aren't in a hot zone.
Go try and collect copper off of Golgotha's mountains if you aren't with their alliance and you will find the experience very different.
A sweeping generalization helps no one. There are areas of the map where you can gather and idyllically admire the beauty of the great outdoor all day long and almost never see anyone. There are areas of map where you have to 'stealth' gather and stare at mini-map all the time because 'trouble' shows up with great regularity.
People's mileage will vary depending on who they are and where they are when they do activities. Life in the SE of the map isn't dull by any means.
Nihimon Goblin Squad Member |
GripGuiness |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have spent 20 hours or so gathering peacefully and can count the number of people I have seen outside of towns in that time on one hand, and have never been attacked. The possibility of getting killed in game is greatly blown out of porportion. Currently with the low population I think the possibility of getting pvp killed is significantly less then accidentally skirting some mordant spire or ogres too close and dying
that seems true ... for now...
But let's keep that under wraps shall we? Wouldn't want anyone to take it as a challenge to find ya ... *scampers off into the trees*
Tyncale Goblin Squad Member |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have similar experiences as ZomoZ, then again, I am in the North, part of Xeilias and mostly playing on eurotimes. And even then, very cautious with an eye on the minimap.
I expect it to change very much. However, I hope that it will change not just in a "there's more people so more chance of getting ganked" way.
Fast Travel, Blinds, SAD, Caravans, Factions, Holdings, Feuds, Guards patrolling the Main Roads(that are still flagged as NPC hexes after all), Wars and the possibility to be able to check someone's Company and Settlement affiliation should provide the more interesting means of getting involved in PvP(and Parley and Diplomacy and Treason and Espionage and Assasination and Scouting and all those much cooler aspects of PvP then just hitting on a gatherer).
Tyncale Goblin Squad Member |
Bluddwolf Goblin Squad Member |
.Would being able to see exactly how much rep you would lose (or how much someone had) remove enough of the uncertainty? Because making the cost lower to attack someone with low Reputation is a primary goal of the system and making the loss flat would significantly weaken that...
If you consider that meaningful, then I guess I see your point. I don't see someone with a low rep and say "Oh I'll attack him, he has low rep and I won't lose as much rep."
First, I rarely see anyone with low rep (that might even be, I've never seen) and the reputation of the character is not one of my main considerations. I look for "slow moving resource nodes" and they are almost always max Rep.
I of course consider if I know the character, but this will become much easier when we have at least a settlement label.
Lifedragn Goblin Squad Member |
First, I rarely see anyone with low rep (that might even be, I've never seen) and the reputation of the character is not one of my main considerations. I look for "slow moving resource nodes" and they are almost always max Rep.
Wizards... I blew a lot of rep with a wrongly timed AoE attack during a PvE escalation. Oops!
Bluddwolf Goblin Squad Member |
Bluddwolf wrote:Wizards... I blew a lot of rep with a wrongly timed AoE attack during a PvE escalation. Oops!
First, I rarely see anyone with low rep (that might even be, I've never seen) and the reputation of the character is not one of my main considerations. I look for "slow moving resource nodes" and they are almost always max Rep.
I stopped doing large group escalations because the targeting is just stupid and GW STILL HAS NOT FIXED!!! Tab targeting resource nodes.