What's in the box? |
I have only seen ONE example of this for 3.5 (and I can't even find THAT now... VERY frustrating) but I think it would be cool to have complementary classes- or classes that would be complete on their own BUT have an element (or two) that would interact specifically with another class.
In a way this would be able to show some of those relationships that we see in Anime, Video Games. etc. where you can see that X character is a Fighter, but he also has this ONE ability that ONLY works when he is around Y that you could NEVER get if you were a fighter (or it would be unreasonable/unrealistic to obtain).
I think I may be using confusing language so I thought of some examples:
(Ar Tonelico) Lyner + Aurica= Reyvateil and Rey-Knight, here you have an example of Lyner a fairly basic soldier/fighter character and Aurica being a... bard/sorceress(?). But with Diving (a joint process) and Grathmelding (I believe Lyner does this for her) it grants the Reyvateil different abilities (also keeps her alive) and with the Diving you bond better and the Rey-Knight becomes more protective of her and her songs have greater effect with him... I know like basic leveling does these things too, but the synergy between these two is MORE than just: And they got more powerful.
(Soul Eater) Maka and Soul=Meister and Weapon, I have talked about this a LOT recently. There is a cool racial option (Arma) to be someone's weapon, but I think have complementary classes would really be the best way to represent these characters: Meister's have fighter abilities and also different pathways (Maka can SEE souls?) and Weapons seem to have their own specific uses as well. You also have that "Soul Resonance" thing WHICH is the defining feature and something that seems SO awesome- and I envision it working with d20 roles and the closer the two players role to each other, the more powerful the effect- essentially your SOULS are in sync.
(Frankenstein) Frankenstein and his Monster= Scientist and Creation, I think the Summoner class is where people will be like: No you would just flavor text it, but it doesn't QUITE fit for me. Also you have this dynamic of a Scientist being afraid of his creation and the "Monster" trying to figure out the world... Having something like upgrades that the scientist can install as well as having emotional reactions that the monster has with this one specific person could make for some interesting mechanics.
(Final Fantasy X) Yuna et al= Summoner and Guardians, Yeah so for the most part Lulu is really just dragged down by her duty to Yuna and likely could have blasted the crap out of Sin (I am a Lulu fan). The thing I am more interested in would be the Final Summon aspect. This is WAY overpowered, but wouldn't something similar on a lesser scale be SO cool. Maybe something out there already exists?
(Final Fantasy IX) Vivi and Steiner= Black Mage and Soldier, this is probably the first example of this in an RPG (that I can think of), either one of these characters fights well on their own in the game but together they add even MORE power. I never really maximized this in FF9 but I think this would be very cool in a PF system- I know there are spells and the Magus is essentially the conjunction of this, but sometimes you just want someone to let you fill their sword with Lightning...
Any other examples? Any thoughts on how this plays out? Anybody got these down already??? Because I would LOVE some playtest :) I am SURE there are more examples out there... most of the things that came to mind were more animal companion (He-Man and Battle Cat) or Leader/Cohort (Xena and Gabrielle) but the above examples I think show 2 characters that are on (relatively) even footing and work TOGETHER better than they work alone.
Snorb |
I don't see why two kineticists using the appropriate blast talents can't composite them into one big blast (aside from "So whose attack roll do you use?" and "Whose Constitution do you use for damage?")
You know. Like the Sailor Guardians. Except without the synchronized dropping to their knees and wailing for their annihilated past life romances that were only shoehorned into the anime to appease a million fanfiction writers who wrote some really awful stories based on one picture the artist drew for the hell of it in an artbook a couple years after the series ended.
(Note: Is not bitter about Sailor Moon Crystal.)
What's in the box? |
I think that makes for a good idea as well. Some 3rd party stuff have touched on joint/combo spells, but not much- I think it would be cool to have certain spells synergize with each other, you could also have rules that 2 PCs working in concert could achieve a spell effect unlike anything they could create alone (ie. 2 sixth level spells could create the effect of a 7th level spell or something)
And the Sailor Scouts are a great example as well. I wouldn't say Sailor Mars is Sailor Moon's cohort.
Skylancer4 |
Considering the number of classes and that new classes get published... This would be a huge headache as a class ability. You would either have to update them with every other class that came out, or got errata'd/FAQ'd, or restrict them arbitrarily to specific classes. Basically not worth it.
That being said, it is exactly what feats are for and is what the teamwork line of feats does. Making it an option versus a built in (and possibly entirely useless) class ability is a better design choice and you don't have to worry about the specific classes, just how the feats interact. Much less problematic, and easier to balance and implement.
What's in the box? |
My thought is that these would BE specific classes, not options to add to existing classes. The potential of the class would be maximized if another player took the complementary class to it.
So you could play a Weapon Meister one its own if no one wants to be your weapon, but you would maximize your potential if another played DID want to be the Subaki to your Black Star
Snorb |
Palom and Porom of FFIV(or 2 depending on what you were playing) are a good example. They had that groovy TWIN ability.
Palom and Porom also had the unique "Select Twincast, hope to God one of these two twins doesn't get beaten into unconsciousness while I'm waiting fifteenish seconds for Comet to go off" ability. =p
Skylancer4 |
My thought is that these would BE specific classes, not options to add to existing classes. The potential of the class would be maximized if another player took the complementary class to it.
So you could play a Weapon Meister one its own if no one wants to be your weapon, but you would maximize your potential if another played DID want to be the Subaki to your Black Star
That has its own inherent issues. You up and up being sub par because no one wanted to play your "matching" class.
Class balance is a tricky enough, let alone when it interacts with others. Are you supposed to design the class as being underpowered unless you have someone else playing your matching class? What happens when you have 5 people, someone is just to feel useless while the other pairs of players steal the show from each other?
How are you supposed to balance a character to be fine on its own AND still be balanced when it is supposed to be BETTER when operating synergistically with another?
Not saying it is a bad idea. Just want to point out the numerous issues with the idea in a multiplayer game that is as open ended as an RPG. Add in the variance from table to table and the strict nature of organized play... It would be a nightmare to keep updated and balanced every time something new came out. It is the type of thing you might get a 3pp to do, but probably not something that PFRPG would want to get overly involved in.