Masterwork Weapon +1 to +5


Homebrew and House Rules

Verdant Wheel

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Tinkering with the Gear System in general.

Does anybody allow masterwork weapons to grant better than a +1 bonus on attack rolls?
If so, have you considered allowing the bonus to damage as well?
How would you price such a weapon (in either case)?

Thanks in advance.

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I used it for a low magic game. 300 gp times attack bonus squared. Increased Craft DC by +5 for each additional +1 to attacks. Of course, I didn't use a separate check for a masterwork component, just each step of the Craft process needed successful checks or weapon turned out to be a normal masterwork version with a flaw.

I didn't allow a damage upgrade in that game.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

I remember having a conversation about this before. Having multiple levels of masterwork that increase the attack bonus (damage wouldn't really work because by definition, a +1 weapon is magical).

I worked out the price formula as price = [weapon price] + 300*[bonus]^2. It might be helpful to give each quality a name. +1 = masterwork, +2 = refined, +3 = flawless, +4 = superior, +5 = perfect.

The price of a bonus contributes towards the price of a magic weapon of the same bonus. In other words, if you want to upgrade your refined +1 longsword to a +2 longsword, you simply subtract the prices.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

the Legend of Five Rings for 3.5 had a small section on making non-magical enhanced weapons up to +4. The cost was the same as a magic weapon, but it had to be crafted up, instead of magicked, so it obviously took MUCH longer.

==Aelryinth


there is this:
has kind of what your looking for it only goes to +3 but each +1 opens modifications to the weapon, it also includes some runes for weapons; magical effects, with flavor.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1w-weoYAaesyeZe06JUTPxUEygWJ1j4F49Ouj719 YBwE/edit

Most of the Doc. belongs to Vivek Shaker

Verdant Wheel

I guess my thoughts so far are thus. I want a parallel masterwork enhancement system to stand beside the magical enhancement system to provide additional options in my Gear game. As "enhancement" bonuses overlap, this cannot really run out of control.

So, I'd like to evaluate the similarities and differences between, for example, a masterwork "+5" sword and a magical "+5" sword. To what extent would the pricing be similar? To what extent would the DR bypass be similar? How would a difference in DR bypass affect the pricing comparatively? And other permutations.

As an extension, what special properties (valued at their bonus) could be assigned as "masterwork" in addition to "magical" (ex. Flaming=no, Keen=yes), and how could this interact with the Craft skill and Character Advancement trajectory? (ex. Only a 13th-level 13-rank swordsman could create a masterwork +4 sword).

In terms of what the final house rules "ought to" look like, I'd like to find the balance between reinventing the wheel and tacking on minor modifications based on logical precedence.

...

Thomas LeBlanc, why not damage too? Any specific reason?
Cyrad, naming is a good idea for immersive-ness, yes. Do you have a link to your convo?
Aelryinth, do you think the price=same time=longer is fair?
Abrir, I cannot access the doc. Interested in the "each +1 opens modifications" concept.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

1 person marked this as a favorite.

It sounds like you want a way to make the crafting skills more valuable, as opposed to just making better non-magical weapons.
=============================================
Keen and probably Ghost Touch are definitely properties I can see sticking in a non-magical weapon.

Potentially you could do 'Counts as good/lawful/evil/chaotic' and /or silver/cold iron, because material being aligned is also the property of some objects.

For Holy Weapons, I use 'Blessed' for good aligned (+1000 Gp), and Sacred for Good +1d6 dmg vs Evil (+1). The other alignments are: Strict/Disciplined; Foul/Vile; and Impulsive/Liberated.

DR bypass is...problematic. Should a +3 masterwork weapon bypass DR/Magical? Cold Iron? Silver?

I'd go yes to adamantine.

If you do allow the enhancements to work both ways, then you've now created the potential of a +14 weapon...+5 non-magic enhancement that works in an A-M field, +9 of other enhancements to buttress this.

it's a sticky point. There should be a benefit to being +5 magical (DR punch) and +5 not magical (works everywhere, can't be dispelled).

IMC,

DC 25 Weapon - High Masterwork
DC 30 Grand Masterwork
DC 35 Profound Masterwork (needed for +5 Swords)
DC 40 Angelic Masterwork

Using Special materials increases the DC of a weapon by +3 (cold iron/silver) to +10 (for adamantine). Making a Weapon Heavy, Light, Dire, Inspired, Template, or Wild also raises the DC by 5.

Heavy doubles or triples the weapon's weight, takes an EWP, and makes it do dmg as if a size larger.
Light reduces weight and increases flexibility, takes an EWP, and makes it finessable.
Dire is based on the designs of lower planar weapons, festoons them with spikes and things, and takes an EWP.
Inspired is based on Upper Planar profound weaponry, and grants a +1 Perfection bonus to hit. A Perfect Weapon, DC 45 to make, is +1/+1 for the wielder it is made for. A Truly Perfect Weapon, DC 50, is +1/+1 for anyone who uses it.
Template is based on idealized lawful templates of 'perfect' Weapons, and it is considered a 19-20 x3 weapon if trained properly (EWP)
Wild is based on Chaotic multifunctional weapons, and the weapon gains an additional damage type that makes sense, if used correctly (EWP).

Heavy and Light weapons do not stack.

Aligned weapons can combine with a neighboring type, raising the DC by +5 as normal. Perfect Weapons cannot stack. So you can have an Inspired Template weapon (effectively a LG design), but not an Inspired Dire Weapon (which would be an Evil-Good weapon). Note that it is the design themselves which makes the weapons 'better'...Dire weapons should be awkward to use, get caught on things, break easier, etc, but because they are Dire and rooted in Evil designs, they just work better. Ditto Template weapons...Law says these are the ideal forms of weapons, and thus they work better.

So, I got around the 'non-magical enhancement bonus' by a) making high craftsmanship necessary to make better weapons and armor (basically DC 20 +3 per plus) and b) making Craft add-ons that magic didn't duplicate and stacked with them, but couldn't all be applied.

So high crafting skill is both useful and necessary.

I also made Ranks necessary to learn things, not just bonuses, and turned the Int Booster items to Not Qualify for these things. Thus, slapping a +2 Armor Crafting Int Headband on doesn't mean you can make any armor, and definitely means you can't make adamantine armor (7 ranks) without the actual investment.

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Oh, and yes to the higher cost = magical = more time. It's more realistic. Even a great crafter is going to take a very long time to make a sword with that level of high DC, and it gives them something to be renowned for. It's also a way to actually WANT all that crafting stuff for higher bonuses!!!

==Aelryinth

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

rainzax wrote:
Thomas LeBlanc, why not damage too? Any specific reason?

Being a low magic setting I altered the damage output of many spells. To keep martial characters from outpacing the magic users by too much, I reduced their damage output as well via no additional damage modifiers on weapons. Here is a free download with some variant masterwork weapon qualities.

Additionally, I lowered the DR for most enemies (removed DR/magic completely) or changed them to different metals besides just adamantine, cold iron, silver, etc. Also, if the wielder of a weapon was CG, then the weapon was considered chaotic and good for DR.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
rainzax wrote:

Tinkering with the Gear System in general.

Does anybody allow masterwork weapons to grant better than a +1 bonus on attack rolls?
If so, have you considered allowing the bonus to damage as well?
How would you price such a weapon (in either case)?

Thanks in advance.

I don't.

No.

As per number 2

Not interested in either losing the point of magic weapons, nor bringing in a complication that does not improve the game.


In 3.5 (with which I have more experience than pathfinder), flat enhancement bonuses are almost always among the worst weapon enchantments. The reasons are essentially
Begin tangent
a)There are a lot of + equivalent enchantments that can boost damage indirectly, often much more than an equal-cost + bonus. Splitting Weapon is probably the most extreme example.
b)Dealing hit-point damage is typically a poor thing to focus on in 3e anyways, and other enchantments can expand your versatility. The best ones came post-core, because the developers realized after more playtesting that weapon-usage in core ended up both weaker and too narrowly applicable than they wanted it to be, so they tried to correct it in supplements by introducing better weapon enchantments.
c)(The biggest one) While there are uses for straight + enchantments, virtually all of them are covered by Greater Magic Weapon. To add insult to injury, the effects of Greater Magic Weapon do not stack with +enhancements, but do stack with almost any other enhancements you can get on a weapon.

My understanding is that +weapons are better in pathfinder, because
a)They were given the unique ability to bypass damage reduction. This power is not duplicated by GMW.
b)Paizo has released generally less versatile magic weapon properties.

A lot of the same analysis applies to magic armors, although the flat bonuses still aren't very good in pathfinder.
End tangent.

So, with that in mind, I decided at one point to try replacing flat + enhancement bonuses on magic weapons and armor with nonmagical enhancement bonuses, obtained via the craft skill. They have the same cost that their magic counterparts have, but can be made without a special feat or a caster level. My reason had nothing to do with wanting to make the craft skill useful. Rather, I wanted to give flat enhancement bonuses a niche: as nonmagical weapons, they can function in an AMF and cannot be suppressed or dispelled the way magic weapons can!
If you are doing this for Pathfinder, then you probably aren't looking to make flat enhancement bonuses competitive with other weapon enchantments (since they already are). Instead, it sounds to me like you just want to make the craft skill better.
Unless you use AMFs a lot, there isn't a big difference between a +X to hit/damage nonmagic weapon and a +X to hit/damage magic weapon. If you throw in overcoming damage reduction in the same way as magic weapons, then they are practically the same item, and should have the same (or close to the same) price.


When we did 3.5, we had a no-magic game with a three levels: Masterwork (+1 to-hit), Mastercraft (+2 to-hit), Masterpiece (+3 to-hit).

I think Pathfinder could do a no-magic game a bit better since you have quite a few classes without magic - fighter, barbarian, rogue, monk, gunslinger, cavalier, brawler, swashbuckler, slayer plus the various archetypes associated with them.

Hmmm... maybe after I'm done with my current AP, I'll do a no-magic game.


Rather than looking at +1 to +5 Masterwork weapons, look at special materials

There were several in 3.5 which had natural +1 bonuses (Ironwood still does in Pathfinder), natural Ghost Touch, even natural Keen Edge.

You have Frost-Forged Steel and Fire-Forged Steel in the PRD, also.

Just say that +1 to +5 isn't actually magical, just gradations of quality, and replace a lot of abilities with expensive materials.

Boom - you're done.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

There were a LOT of special materials in 3.5. I got a list somewhere I can bring back. Crazy complex what you could do with alloys.

==Aelryinth

Verdant Wheel

Aelryinth, thanks for all the ideas - i will definitely be using that as an abstract!
Thomas LeBlanc, I usually compare quality to price as a ratio - your guide is infinitely valuable!
LazarX, should have put "Thanks and No Thanks in advance" in my OP, right?
137ben, increasing the value of Craft is a parallel goal of this thread, yes.
MeanMutton, I really like your naming conventions - any chance expanding to +5?
chbgraphicarts, indeed I am stumbling over how to reconcile bonuses vs spec materials.

I will mull all this over.

To mash up another related idea, I am considering having all "magic" items scale with the user's HD (+1/+2/+3/+4/+5 at 1st/5th/9th/13th/17th) independent of special (masterwork) materials and (magic) qualities. This standing alongside masterwork enhancement from weapons (constrained in that the bonus type "enhancement" overlaps).

Ultimately, I'd like to make sure my characters are at or above their appropriate CR in terms of sheer metrics while simultaneously giving them less but more useful Gear. I am familiar with (I have already "favorite-ed") the various threads that share this same goal - point me not in the direction please. I want to talk about weapons here.

cheers folks.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Weapons should scale with BAB.

Other stuff should scale with level.

Make Rogues full BAB.

==Aelryinth


I have run two versions of this over my time as DM.

Years ago, I used a rule based on this variant rule written by someone way back in the days of 3.5. It does not add an enhancement bonus to damage, but increases the critical threat range for weapons, and increases max dex or DR for armor, depending on the material. The cost and craft DC progression the author uses is incredibly high, so I used the following:

Craft DC........Market Price
20..............300
27..............5,100
34..............15,900
43..............35,100
50..............65,100

This worked well for awhile, but (as is probably obvious looking at it now) the extra critical threat range quickly became far too powerful. Even with the caveat that it isn't affected by improved crit, it lead to a situation where the fighter could expect to crit nearly any time he landed an attack.

More recently, I'm using a rule where, in addition to an increase in the enhancement bonus to hit (still no damage) the crafter chooses a bonus from a list for each.

My current rule:

Degrees of Masterwork:

The standard masterwork item is a 1st degree masterwork item. Items can be crafted up to 5th degree masterworks, creating items of incredible craftsmanship and quality. This has different effects, depending on the type of item.

Weapons: A 1st degree masterwork weapon grants a +1 enhancement bonus to attack rolls, but not damage. For every degree thereafter, this enhancement bonus increases by +1, the weapon gains 10 hit points, and the smith chooses one benefit from the list below. Unless otherwise specified, no benefit may be taken more than once.

  • Counterbalanced: The weapon’s damage die is increased by one step.
  • Elegant: The weapon’s is a symbol of authority. It grants a +4 circumstance bonus to persuasion checks made against those who recognize and respect its authority, and a +4 circumstance bonus to intimidate against those who fear the same.
  • Far Flight: The weapon’s range increment is increased by 10 ft (ranged and thrown weapons only). This benefit may be taken multiple times. Its effects stack.
  • Fine Edge: Increase the critical threat range by 1. This stacks with, but is not increased by, improved critical or similar effects.
  • Hardened: The weapon’s hardness is increased by 2 and it gains 10 hit points. This benefit may be taken multiple times. Its effects stack.
  • Parry Guard: The weapon grants a +1 shield bonus to armor class when wielded.
  • Sure Striking: Grants a +1 bonus to critical confirmation rolls and +1 base damage on a critical hit.

Armor: A 1st degree masterwork set of armor has its check penalty reduced by 1. For every degree thereafter, its check penalty is further reduced by 1, it gains 10 hit points, and the smith may choose one benefit from the list below. Unless otherwise specified, no benefit may be taken more than once.

  • Reduced Weight: The maximum speed allowed by the armor is 5 ft. greater (to a maximum of no reduction), and its weight is reduced by 10%. This benefit may be taken twice. Its effects stack.
  • Clever Joints: The armor’s arcane spell failure chance is reduced by 5%. This benefit may be taken multiple times. Its effects stack.
  • Fearsome: This armor grants a +2 circumstance bonus to intimidate checks made while it is worn. This benefit may be taken multiple times. Its effects stack.
  • Mobile: The armor’s maximum Dex bonus is increased by 1.
  • Hardened: The armor’s hardness is increased by 2 and it gains 10 hit points. This benefit may be taken multiple times. Its effects stack.
  • Heartguard: The armor grants a +2 bonus to armor class against critical confirmation rolls.
  • Protective: The armor grants DR/- equal to half its armor class value (including any magical enhancement bonus, round down).

Prices
The gold cost for each tier of masterwork weapon and armor are given in the following table.

Table: Masterwork Prices
Masterwork Degree.......Armor Market Price......Weapon Market Price
1............................150 gp.......................300 gp
2............................2,500 gp.....................5,000 gp
3............................8,000 gp.....................16,000 gp
4............................17,500 gp....................35,000 gp
5............................32,500 gp....................65,000 gp

Crafting
I use a reworked craft system, but the short version is that the DC for most weapons starts at 14, and most armors start at 18 (due to increased complexity), and the DC increases by 5 for each degree of masterwork. The time also doubles for each degree of masterwork, but the initial time values are figured differently than core rules - typically 1-3 days for weapons, and 1 week for armor.

These rules are in the midst of their playtest now, so may need some tweaking. Your mileage may vary.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Quick Reference for Smithing Nuts like me.

Item Make Crafting DC Effect
Normal Item 10
Masterwork Item 20 As per PHB
Dire/Elfcraft/Devanian +5 +2 Weapon Damage/Weight Reduction
Perfect 35 Custom +1/+1 for Wielder (innate)
Truly Perfect 40 +1/+1 Innate, all wielders.

Modifiers Bonus Tools DC Ranks Needed
Mastercraft Item +1 - +5 12
+2 +4 +10 15
+3 +6 +15 18
+4 +8 +20 20

Metals and Materials DC Hard HP Armor and Weapons
Cold Iron +5 8 20 As PHB
Alchemical Silver +5 10 30 As PHB
High Carbon Steel +5 15 30
Mithral +8 15 30 Reduces Wt.
Truesteel +10 15 30 As Cold Iron
Silversteel +10 15 30 As Silver
Adamantine +10, 10 ranks 20 40 As PHB
Duskwood +5 10 30 Wood, ½ wt.

Arandur +5 12 30 Sonic Res2, Keen
Alchemical Copper +5 10 30 Cold Res2
Alchemical Gold (Heavy) +5 10 30 Acid/Fire2

Alchemical Platinum +5 10 30 Cold/Sonic2
Darksteel +5 10 30 Cold/2
Fever Iron +7 12 30 Fire/2, Fire+1
Dlarun (icesteel) +5 10 30 Fire/2, Frst+1
Living Metal +5 12 30 Dex +1, Repairs self
Hizagkuur +15, 15 ranks 10 30 Cold/2, Fire/Light +1
Hizagluur As Hizagkuur… Fire/2, Cold/Light+1
Zardazil +5 10 30 Body Phase
Telstang +5 8 20 Immune/Shapechange

Aurorum (Olympus) +5 10 30 Rebonds if broken
Frystalline +5 10 15 Good aligned
Serren Wood +5 As Wood Ghost Touch
Solarion Truesteel +5 11 25 +1 Crit Confirm
Ysgardian Heartwire +5 +2 vs. Crit Confirm
Baatorian Greensteel (Tantulhor) +5 15 30 +1 Dmg Enhance
Baatorian Greysteel (Djavva) Unknown

Otherplanar metals forged for alignment retention: +4000 GP, desecrated areas, holy/unholy fires, blessed tools, etc. DC+5.

Alchemical Treatments (FR all)
Blueshine: Damage from Acid is normal (1/2), does not rust under normal circumstances, Alchemy DC 20 to apply.
Everbright: Does not rust at all, Immune to acid, Alchemy Check DC 25
Stealthslake: Nonmagnetic, Silent, Nonreflective, Alchemy DC 25.

Notes:
All materials other then common steel are automatically assumed to be masterwork, before applying the cost of the material.

High Carbon Steel (wootz) is the old material used to make +3 weapons in 1E. It is simply highest grade normal steel. It is half the price of Mithral.
Silversteel is as hard as mithral, with the properties of Silver. Priced as Mithral.
Truesteel is as hard as mithral, with the properties of Cold Iron. Priced as Mithral.

Element/2 is resistance to that element (fire/2 removes 2 pts of fire dmg/rd) and applies to armor made with the material. Element +1 does additional dmg of that element when swung (Fire/Light +1 does an additional point of Fire and Lightning dmg when it hits).
None of these properties are considered magical; they are simply innate powers of the metals.

Arandur (FR): Silver-blue in color. +2000 GP.
Darksteel (FR): Weapons +1500 GP, Armor +2000 GP, Purple with Silver Highlights.
Dlarun (FR): As Darksteel, bone-white.
Fever Iron (FR): Made from Magma, cost as Darksteel, ‘fiery’ core.
Alchemical Gold: Requires Alchemy Check 20
Alchemical Platinum: Req Alchemy Check 20
Hizagkuur (FR): Minimum 15 ranks, Alchemy DC 30. Pale silver-gray. Cost as adamantine.
Hizagluur: A variant of the above, armor grants fire/2, does dmg cold/light +1
Living Metal (FR): Gray-green in color. Repairs itself 1 hp/min. Price as adamantine.
Telstang (FR): Armor made of this renders the wearer incapable of/immune to shapechanging (such as polymorphing, or to imprison a shapechanger). Price as mithral.
Zardazil (FR): Weapons made of this are blood-bonded to a single person, and have ‘body phase’, they are ‘intangible’ to that wielder…a nice way to have a blade that cannot be turned against you. Price as Silver.

(BoED)
Aurorum: +4000 GP, if sundered, pieces reseal if held together.
Frystalline: From Elysium, +2000 gp. Good alignment.
Serren Wood: from the Beast Lands. +4000 GP. Ghost Touch.
Solarion Truesteel: +1 to hit rolls to confirm crits. +1000 GP. Golden in appearance.
Ysgardian Heartwire: +1500 GP. Added to other suits. Gives them +2 AC against crit rolls.
Baatorian Green/Greysteel: Sinister mossy green,/rotting gray. +4000 GP. An eager export from the Hells. A Greensteel weapon is non-magical +1/+1 enhanced. As a default, you could make all weapons used by Devils to be Greensteel Dire weapons, for +1/+3, without them being magical.

Many normal metals are available from other planes. If forged on the Prime in circumstances similar to the planes they were removed from, they can retain alignment traits.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

There's some metals on Eberron around somewhere which I never added to this list, either. Most of the above are from the Forgotten Realms.

==Aelryinth

Verdant Wheel

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Ok.
Continuing on my houserules that make "masterwork" weapons better.

Numerically, I think the highest bonus I will allow is +3.
Including Qualities (below), the highest summative bonus I will allow is +5.
With each +1 adding +5 to the craft DC.

The qualities I can see as being non-magical (but otherwise functioning identically) include:

Spoiler:

Extraordinary Weapon Qualities
(these items do not glow under Detect Magic and function within an Antimagic Field)

$
Adaptive (+1,000gp) (requires Knowledge: Engineering)
Dry Load (+1,500gp) (requires Craft: Alchemy)
Dueling (+14,000gp) (weapon must be Darkwood or Mithral)
Impervious (+3,000gp) (weapon must be Adamantine or Whipwood) (requires Craft: Alchemy)

+1
Conductive (Cold or Fire only) (weapon must be Fire- or Frost-Forged Steel) (requires Knowledge: Engineering)
Countering (weapon must be Darkwood or Mithral)
Cunning (weapon must be Elysian Bronze) (requires Knowledge: Arcana and Nature)
Defending (choice is set at creation instead of round-by-round) (weapon must be Darkwood or Mithral)
Distance (requires Knowledge: Engineering)
Ghost Touch (requires Knowledge: Religion)
Grounding (requires Craft: Alchemy)
Keen (weapon must be Adamantine)
Ki Focus (weapon must be Wyroot) (requires Knowledge: Arcana)
Mighty Cleaving (weapon must be Adamantine if Bludgeoning, Mithral if Slashing or Piercing)
Planar (requires Knowledge: Planes)
Reliable (requires Knowledge: Engineering)
Throwing (requires Knowledge: Engineering)

+2
Anarchic (requires Knowledge: Planes)
Axiomatic (requires Knowledge: Planes)
Disruptive (requires Knowledge: Religion)
Holy (requires Knowledge: Religion)
Impact (weapon must be Adamantine)
Ki Intensifying (weapon must be Wyroot) (requires Knowledge: Arcana)
Negating (effective against a single alignment only) (requires Knowledge: Planes)
Phase Locking (requires Knowledge: Planes)
Unholy (requires Knowledge: Religion)
Wounding (weapon must be Blood Crystal) (requires Heal and Craft: Alchemy)

+3
Nullifying (requires Knowledge: Arcana)
Reliable, Greater (requires Knowledge: Engineering)
Speed (weapon must be Darkwood or Mithral)

Suggestions or Comments?
I am thinking of simply using the same pricing conventions. If an item must be made from a certain material, I will simply add that to the cost. If an item requires a particular skill to make (in addition to the appropriate Craft skill), I may increase the cost by 10% per rank required, with the number ranks required mirroring the caster level of the magic version.

Ideally, less bookkeeping the better - some balance between "realistic" and "user-friendly" and "cool" is my desired end result.


I devised a system once that incorporated both grades of Masterwork as well as grades of "degraded" craftsmanship (basically anti-masterwork that makes gear easier to craft and cost less). I graded it from rank E-C for degraded versions, B was the current "normal" grade of weapons, and A, S, SS, and SSS were three grades of Masterwork. Generally, each grade of Masterwork granted +1 attack, +1/2 damage (max +4 attack, +2 damage at SSS) and degraded versions had the reverse. You could also make alterations to the basic qualities of the weapon such as increase the damage dice by one step in place of two masterwork ranks (or reduce it in place of two degraded ranks) or give it a suitable weapon ability (disarm, monk, deadly, etc), so on and so forth.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Just for the hell of it, make a category of dr that is only overcome by non magical weapons or damage.

Liberty's Edge

I've considered doing something like this, but hey, Master Craftsman.

The blade wasn't enchanted, but it might as well have been.

Verdant Wheel

I gave one of my players a Masterwork Ghost Touch Greataxe.

Though it would fetch the same market price as a magical version (total bonus +2), it lacks the enhancement bonus to damage in exchange for not sharing the drawbacks of being magical.

I think it is a fair trade.


I like the idea of Masterwork being extensible to abilities other than the +1 enhancement without adding magic - similar to the Vital Guard armour properties, and can totally get behind the idea.

I was going to house-rule Grandmaster or Artisan items with slightly better hardness/item hitpoints, enhancement bonus to attack roll on weapons and bonus AC against critical confirmation rolls on armour. I do have a fondness for low magic settings where a magic item is more of a magically perfected item indistinguishable from a superbly-made mundane items.

But Master Craftsman and Dynamic Item Creation, both of which allow you to create magic items without being a spellcaster would make those rules redundant.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

rainzax wrote:

Ok.

Continuing on my houserules that make "masterwork" weapons better.
...

I like it.

On a different note, one thing I always enjoyed about settings with advanced/future tech is the option to modify weapons on a day-to-day basis. It would be great to have a similar mechanic for a standard fantasy setting, but I'm afraid that would be hard to explain without resorting to magic (I really liked augmentation crystals from the 3.5 Magic Item Compendium).

Verdant Wheel

Idle Champion wrote:
But Master Craftsman and Dynamic Item Creation, both of which allow you to create magic items without being a spellcaster would make those rules redundant.

Not quite redundant. Because there is no way in the game to replicate certain mechanics that are otherwise reserved for magic. Special materials are cool, but are generally weaker options than magical qualities. I plan to use the (Unchained) Dynamic Item Creation system with the rules above, not only integrate into that system, but also to further broaden access to crafting with or without taking the Master Craftsman feat. (I am considering folding that feat into Craft skills altogether...)

A poster above suggested the "Masterwork" < "Mastercraft" < "Masterpiece" naming conventions, which for weapons will correspond to a +1 < +2 < +3 enhancement bonus to attack rolls (but not damage rolls).

I am interested in suggestions for armor and tools. For example, ought Masterpiece tools grant a +4 or a +6 bonus? And Masterpiece armor a 3-point ACP reduction or a 1-point betterment in each of ACP, MaxDX, and AC? Still brainstorming here...


rainzax wrote:

Tinkering with the Gear System in general.

Does anybody allow masterwork weapons to grant better than a +1 bonus on attack rolls?
If so, have you considered allowing the bonus to damage as well?
How would you price such a weapon (in either case)?

Thanks in advance.

I used to.

Now the +1-+5 to hit [and the damage through a different mechanic] is worked into the base system.

A Masterwork weapon is either more easily magically enchanted [yes I use the word that way, screw 'enhanced'] or capable of holding more enchantments [think Final Fantasy VII Materia Slots] or just way, way WAY more durable than an ordinary weapon [in a game modified in such a manner that weapon destroying/stealing monsters aren't nearly as unfair as they are in a standard 3.X/P game.]


It's a great idea to drop any game. I would make the DCs difficult so that someone really has to be good to pull it off, and because a skill point is a much easier investment than a class level.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Homebrew and House Rules / Masterwork Weapon +1 to +5 All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Homebrew and House Rules