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Many Ioun Stones (and their Resonant Powers) are described in Seekers of Secrets.
If you possess a Wayfinder and one of these Ioun Stones (from a Chronicle Sheet, obviously), can a CORE character benefit from that Ioun Stone's Resonant Power, as detailed in the Additional Resources document?
I've seen it stated elsewhere that this is not possible, and that those rules "aren't CORE", but I'm not clear on why half of an item's rules would be legal (the item description), and the other half wouldn't be (the resonant powers).
Can someone enlighten me?
That doesn't answer the question.
Please reread my post.
It does, actually.
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It does, actually.That doesn't answer the question.
Please reread my post.
The quote by Mike Brock does answer the question.
The response by Dave did not, because there *are* non-core Ioun Stones available for purchase (via Chronicle Sheets, as I stated) and I was looking for an answer regarding *those* Ioun Stones.
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It does, actually.That doesn't answer the question.
Please reread my post.
The quote by Mike Brock does answer the question.
The response by Dave did not, because there *are* non-core Ioun Stones available for purchase (via Chronicle Sheets, as I stated) and I was looking for an answer regarding *those* Ioun Stones.
That ioun stone's resonant power is specifically allowed because it is on a chronicle sheet even in normal PFS, even though it breaks the rule in Additional Resources that in PFS cracked and flawed ioun stones don't have resonant powers.
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The resonant powers are only legal if they specifically show up on a chronicle.
This means that 99.9% of the resonant powers are not legal, because the only resonant power that I know is specifically written on a chronicle sheet, is a unique one.
That is quite pathetic.
Resonant powers and wayfinder slotting was invented in Seekers of Secret, a book detailing the Pathfinder Society.
How is it that a book entitled "Pathfinder Chronicles: Seekers of Secrets - A Guide to the Pathfinder Society" contains rules on ioun stones that are not accepted in the Pathfinder Society campaign?
This is a game folks: I'm constantly baffled at all the efforts out there to morph Golarion into the Flaeness...
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They are allowed in the regular campaign. They are not allowed in Core Campaign, because everyone has a reason why this or that should be allowed, and suddenly you don't have a game that uses a single book any more, you just have the regular campaign with a few bits missing.
Core is core - it uses the Core Rulebook for PCs. It's a good system - we all played it when it came out, and were happy enough to keep buying all the other books that made Pathfinder the best-selling RPG. If you don't like the idea of Core, that's fine, too.
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It is not legal in the Core Campaign. It is legal in Pathfinder Society.
The Core Campaign is an entirely separate play environment that was created with the goal of using as little non-Core Rulebook sources as possible. It makes sense why Seeker of Secrets would not be allowed when the Pathfinder Field Guide is also not allowed.
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Wayfinder-slotted ioun stones are a feature unique to the world of Golarion, with deep ties to the Pathfinder Society. I understand Core is Core, but the stuff that is unique to the Pathfinder Society should be allowed, as well as anything found in the Inner Sea World Guide. If "there's just too many books now" is the reason for Core, at least put some key Golarion-flavored items and feats in your Core Campaign guidelines... that way those who won't buy the Campaign Setting can still be on an equal footing.
Otherwise, the Core is Core movement starts looking like the Core is Greyhawk movement. I honestly don't get this Core shame limitation trend. IMO the Pathfinder Society should do a 180 and allow all contents from all the books, and do away with that silly fame thing, and item tracking through adventure certs. For GM audit purpose the only thing a player should have to spit out is the total GP value of his character's gear... there. You've dealt with 99% of all the abuse and rules misreading in one blow.
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Wayfinder-slotted ioun stones are a feature unique to the world of Golarion, with deep ties to the Pathfinder Society. I understand Core is Core, but the stuff that is unique to the Pathfinder Society should be allowed, as well as anything found in the Inner Sea World Guide. If "there's just too many books now" is the reason for Core, at least put some key Golarion-flavored items and feats in your Core Campaign guidelines... that way those who won't buy the Campaign Setting can still be on an equal footing.
Otherwise, the Core is Core movement starts looking like the Core is Greyhawk movement. I honestly don't get this Core shame limitation trend. IMO the Pathfinder Society should do a 180 and allow all contents from all the books, and do away with that silly fame thing, and item tracking through adventure certs. For GM audit purpose the only thing a player should have to spit out is the total GP value of his character's gear... there. You've dealt with 99% of all the abuse and rules misreading in one blow.
It's not about putting people who don't want to buy the extra books on an equal footing, it's about giving people a place to start. The fact that it gives some players that have become disenfranchised with PFS Classic is just icing on the cake.
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Wayfinder-slotted ioun stones are a feature unique to the world of Golarion, with deep ties to the Pathfinder Society. I understand Core is Core, but the stuff that is unique to the Pathfinder Society should be allowed, as well as anything found in the Inner Sea World Guide. If "there's just too many books now" is the reason for Core, at least put some key Golarion-flavored items and feats in your Core Campaign guidelines... that way those who won't buy the Campaign Setting can still be on an equal footing.
Otherwise, the Core is Core movement starts looking like the Core is Greyhawk movement. I honestly don't get this Core shame limitation trend. IMO the Pathfinder Society should do a 180 and allow all contents from all the books, and do away with that silly fame thing, and item tracking through adventure certs. For GM audit purpose the only thing a player should have to spit out is the total GP value of his character's gear... there. You've dealt with 99% of all the abuse and rules misreading in one blow.
ALL the non-hardcover supplementals are unique to Golarion though...where do you draw the line?
The Secret of Secrets, Pathfinder Society Field Guide, and the Pathfinder Primer are all not allowed in CORE.
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IMO the Pathfinder Society should do a 180 and allow all contents from all the books, and do away with that silly fame thing, and item tracking through adventure certs. For GM audit purpose the only thing a player should have to spit out is the total GP value of his character's gear... there. You've dealt with 99% of all the abuse and rules misreading in one blow.
I'm sure there are people on the Society forums that would be eager to argue this point with you.
Regarding allowing more content in Core, this was discussed ad nauseum in the original blog post.
The TLDR being that the Core initiative exists because new players sometimes feel overwhelmed or overshadowed by over-optimized characters and the sheer amount of information and options available to PFS players is daunting at times. Core exists to have a simpler play environment where literally the only book you need is the Core rulebook--for GMs and players alike. Adding even a few Pathfinder specific texts to that one book undermines the inherent structure of Core.
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Although I'll abide by Mike Brock's ruling, I'm still confused by it.
I have to crack open Seekers of Secrets in order to read the text of certain Ioun Stones.
I just don't understand why I have to stop reading after a certain point (or how to determine where that point is).
I understand, truly I do, that Core is meant to be kept simple. I'm a fan of that.
But how the line was drawn in this circumstance just stumps me. Especially since, off the top of my head, it only applies to a handful of resonance powers.
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Obviously, I'm not understanding what you're asking. Why are you looking at ioun stones in Seeker of Secrets as opposed to the Core rulebook?
All the ioun stones allowed in Core (expect those found on chronicle sheets) as well as their description, are found in the core book.
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The resonant powers are only legal if they specifically show up on a chronicle.
This means that 99.9% of the resonant powers are not legal, because the only resonant power that I know is specifically written on a chronicle sheet, is a unique one.
That is quite pathetic.
Resonant powers and wayfinder slotting was invented in Seekers of Secret, a book detailing the Pathfinder Society.
How is it that a book entitled "Pathfinder Chronicles: Seekers of Secrets - A Guide to the Pathfinder Society" contains rules on ioun stones that are not accepted in the Pathfinder Society campaign?
This is a game folks: I'm constantly baffled at all the efforts out there to morph Golarion into the Flaeness...
You'll note Purple Dragon Knight, that you are in the Core Campaign section of the message boards. Resonance powers remain completely legal in the normal Pathfinder Society Campaign.
The point of the Core Campaign is to go back to the basics, and you can't allow everything everyone would like in the campaign, and still call it Core.
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Although I'll abide by Mike Brock's ruling, I'm still confused by it.
I have to crack open Seekers of Secrets in order to read the text of certain Ioun Stones.
I just don't understand why I have to stop reading after a certain point (or how to determine where that point is).
I understand, truly I do, that Core is meant to be kept simple. I'm a fan of that.
But how the line was drawn in this circumstance just stumps me. Especially since, off the top of my head, it only applies to a handful of resonance powers.
The ioun stones that do not appear in the Core Rulebook are not available in the Core Campaign.
So the only reason you'd be looking in Seekers of Secrets is if an ioun stone from Seekers of Secrets showed up on a Chronicle sheet. And if I'm not mistaken, the only ones that do that, are the ones that have the resonant power written on the chronicle sheet.
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(except those found on chronicle sheets)(from a Chronicle Sheet, obviously)(via Chronicle Sheets, as I stated)
How many ioun stones from Seekers of Secrets actually show up on Chronicle sheets?
I don't think very many if any at all, that don't then list their resonant power on the chronicle as well.
The line drawn is very simple.
Core Rulebook, Guide to Organized Play, Traits Web Enhancement, and Languages Blog Post.
That can't be confusing. The only reason you are confused, is because you don't want it to work that way.
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Nefreet brings up a legitimate point. Many of the Core Rulebook's ioun stones are reprinted in Seekers of Secrets. If one of these stones appears on a Chronicle, does that appearance "unlock" the resonant power for that specific stone?
-Matt
No. Even if a stone is only in Seekers of Secrets, you don't get access to the resonance power, because Seekers of Secrets is not a legal source in Core.
You don't get to go to Seekers of Secrets because a stone also is printed there. The only time Seekers of Secrets gets to be accessed, is when a stone that shows up on a Chronicle Sheet, is not in the Core Rulebook.
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Wayfinder-slotted ioun stones are a feature unique to the world of Golarion, with deep ties to the Pathfinder Society. I understand Core is Core, but the stuff that is unique to the Pathfinder Society should be allowed, as well as anything found in the Inner Sea World Guide. If "there's just too many books now" is the reason for Core, at least put some key Golarion-flavored items and feats in your Core Campaign guidelines... that way those who won't buy the Campaign Setting can still be on an equal footing.
Otherwise, the Core is Core movement starts looking like the Core is Greyhawk movement. I honestly don't get this Core shame limitation trend. IMO the Pathfinder Society should do a 180 and allow all contents from all the books, and do away with that silly fame thing, and item tracking through adventure certs. For GM audit purpose the only thing a player should have to spit out is the total GP value of his character's gear... there. You've dealt with 99% of all the abuse and rules misreading in one blow.
So if we open all books and everything, you are ok with artifacts from the artifact books? Same thing with Mythic? Advanced firearms? Frag grenades and flame throwers? Laser guns and cybernetics? CE characters? How about antipaladin and lich characters? Piecemailed armor? Characters with siege engines?
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my level 32 chaotic evil psionic shadowcaster laser-guided machine gundragon antipaladin with mythic levels is readyTHERE IS ROOM IN MY PARTY FOR YOU
cool we will be placed at any table that complains about limitations or does not understand that core is core is core
srsly though
he has a really awesome backstory you will love it
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my level 32 chaotic evil psionic shadowcaster laser-guided machine gundragon antipaladin with mythic levels is readyTHERE IS ROOM IN MY PARTY FOR YOUcool we will be placed at any table that complains about limitations or does not understand that core is core is core
srsly though
he has a really awesome backstory you will love it
"Limitations by Lamontius"
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"Limitations by Lamontius"my level 32 chaotic evil psionic shadowcaster laser-guided machine gundragon antipaladin with mythic levels is readyTHERE IS ROOM IN MY PARTY FOR YOUcool we will be placed at any table that complains about limitations or does not understand that core is core is core
srsly though
he has a really awesome backstory you will love it
Is that a disclaimer for the next version of the Guide, or the title of the first volume of his shadowcaster's backstory?
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The only reason you are confused, is because you don't want it to work that way.
Please don't make assumptions about me. It really irks me when ppl do that. Especially during online conversations where I often have never met the offender in person. Recently there's been a real bad spat of that here in the forums, and against me in particular, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't propagate it further.
I was confused because I didn't see a reason why the Resonance Powers had to be excluded from the rules of Ioun Stones and Wayfinders. I did not see a logical reason why I had to stop reading the rules at an arbitrary point. But after Mike Brock's ruling was quoted, I said I'd accept it. And I have. I'm a Lawful-aligned person in real life (with OCD tendencies). Once a decision's been made, I'm good to go. I was unaware of Mike Brock's decision when I created this thread.
And, after discussing this with a friend just now, he pointed out that the Resonance Powers are under an entirely different sub-heading in Seekers of Secrets, and not contained within the text of the individual Ioun Stones themselves. So, that fulfilled the logic requirement I was searching for.
It really was that simple.
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So if we open all books and everything, you are ok with artifacts from the artifact books? Same thing with Mythic? Advanced firearms? Frag grenades and flame throwers? Laser guns and cybernetics? CE characters? How about antipaladin and lich characters? Piecemailed armor? Characters with siege engines?
artifacts: no
mythic: as long as it's given some thoughtadvanced firearms: no - emerging guns only
frag.... flame... laser... cyber...: you're being silly
CE characters: YES! finally!
antipaladin: YES
lich: you're being silly again... no limit playable undeads to ghouls, and maybe throw one vampire template out there once a year at GenCon...
piecemailed armor: is that in Ultimate Combat?
siege engines: if you're running a season of PFS on the high seas, hell yes, I'm counting on it.
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addendum: is your Core only campaign still allowing Wayfinder via the campaign guidelines? if the answer is yes, then I don't see the logic against other Golarion spicy meataballs out there....
Question, have you actually looked at the source material allowed for the campaign in which forum you are commenting on? You know it doesn't change the main campaign at all, right?
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Is that a disclaimer for the next version of the Guide, or the title of the first volume of his shadowcaster's backstory?"Limitations by Lamontius"my level 32 chaotic evil psionic shadowcaster laser-guided machine gundragon antipaladin with mythic levels is readyTHERE IS ROOM IN MY PARTY FOR YOUcool we will be placed at any table that complains about limitations or does not understand that core is core is core
srsly though
he has a really awesome backstory you will love it
Why not both
I can help Mike Brock and prepare you for the awesomeness of the other six volumes of gundragon's backstory at the same time|
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I do think the answer is simple:
If the resonant power is explained on the Chronicle sheet, then you get it. Otherwise, you don't. Period. If the sheet is oblivious to resonant powers, then so is the ability to use them since Core has zero mention of resonant powers.
That said, I've commented in past threads that I wish certain things from the other PFS guides made there way into the current, consolidated guide for PFS play. Resonant power would be cool. But, some might consider this one of those things that are a bit unbalancing and/or ramp up the game complexity.
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addendum: is your Core only campaign still allowing Wayfinder via the campaign guidelines? if the answer is yes, then I don't see the logic against other Golarion spicy meataballs out there....Question, have you actually looked at the source material allowed for the campaign in which forum you are commenting on? You know it doesn't change the main campaign at all, right?
Yes I know that, but I'm still of the opinion that the Core campaign should contain more items and feats specific to Golarion (i.e. anything found in a Pathfinder Society themed product or Inner Sea World Guide should be allowed)
I can see where the wind is blowing, and that my opinion is like pissing against the said wind, so I'll just follow the advice of some campaign staff up thread and ignore this campaign if it doesn't suit me.
My apologies for any inconvenience my opinions may have caused.
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FOLKS its simpel. PLEASE.
Core is like a club for naked people completly without clothes. You can enter if you do wear nothing. PERIOD.
If you want anything else, its like taking a shirt to the club. The chap at the entrance says. Sorry mate. The whole world allows clothes but we in the club want you naked. Even if you think that your shirt I LOVE NAKED PEOPLE is absolutly fitting for the club. It isn´t!
So either you take of ALL of your clothes and enjoy the clubs fabolous buffet, or you keep your shirt and go to the other part of the country club!
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So if we open all books and everything, you are ok with artifacts from the artifact books? Same thing with Mythic? Advanced firearms? Frag grenades and flame throwers? Laser guns and cybernetics? CE characters? How about antipaladin and lich characters? Piecemailed armor? Characters with siege engines?artifacts: no
mythic: as long as it's given some thought
advanced firearms: no - emerging guns only
frag.... flame... laser... cyber...: you're being silly
CE characters: YES! finally!
antipaladin: YES
lich: you're being silly again... no limit playable undeads to ghouls, and maybe throw one vampire template out there once a year at GenCon...
piecemailed armor: is that in Ultimate Combat?
siege engines: if you're running a season of PFS on the high seas, hell yes, I'm counting on it.
How am I being silly? I took exactly what you said and asked questions from it. Your statement:
IMO the Pathfinder Society should do a 180 and allow all contents from all the books, and do away with that silly fame thing, and item tracking through adventure certs.
All contents from all books as you requested include everything I listed, even the stuff you called silly.
mythic: as long as it's given some thought
If we are opening all content from the book as you suggested, why do we need to give it additional thought?
advanced firearms: no - emerging guns only
This doesn't fit your request for "allow all contents from all the books"
frag.... flame... laser... cyber...: you're being silly
This doesn't fit your request for "allow all contents from all the books" AP71 has Frag grenades and flame throwers. The Technology Guide has laser rifles and pistols and all manner of other weapons (sonic, arc, atom guns, grenade launchers nuclear resonators, etc...). Again, you did say "allow all contents from all the books"
CE characters: YES! finally!
antipaladin: YES
How do you suppose this would work in OP where one of the three beliefs is cooperate?
lich: you're being silly again... no limit playable undeads to ghouls, and maybe throw one vampire template out there once a year at GenCon...
Again, why are we limiting it if you advised "allow all contents from all the books"? The Bestiary has rules on creating a lich as a character.
piecemailed armor: is that in Ultimate Combat?
Yes
siege engines: if you're running a season of PFS on the high seas, hell yes, I'm counting on it.
How about for non high seas adventures? Players haev found a way they can shrink a siege engine, take it into a dungeon, unshrink it, and then use it. Why wouldn't that be allowed in all circumstances outside of High seas adventures.
Additionally, I forgot to add Hero Points. Should we include those as well?
I think it is safe to say that "allowing all contents from all the books" is probably not the healthiest choice for organized play though I encourage you to do so in a home game.
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How about for non high seas adventures? Players haev found a way they can shrink a siege engine, take it into a dungeon, unshrink it, and then use it. Why wouldn't that be allowed in all circumstances outside of High seas adventures.
If this is allowed, my next character will be a Rogue who will backstab enemies with a ballista.
(Bonus points if you get the reference!)
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How about for non high seas adventures? Players haev found a way they can shrink a siege engine, take it into a dungeon, unshrink it, and then use it. Why wouldn't that be allowed in all circumstances outside of High seas adventures.If this is allowed, my next character will be a Rogue who will backstab enemies with a ballista.
(Bonus points if you get the reference!)
Can my Rock Troll Crossbowman bring his as well? He calls it 'Piecemaker"
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Have I reached that point where I've become jaded about buying tons of books that I can't use? I guess I have... there's no amount of homebrew, PFS (Core or Encore), or one shot that will result in a potential 20% use of all the Pathfinder stuff I now own.
Look, yes: I believe there should be a free for all Pathfinder campaign that allows all official Pathfinder Roleplaying Game and Pathfinder Campaign Setting content. I'd be ok if you limit the campaign to non-evil only for the sake of weeding out the undesirables, but at some point I'd also be ok if you create a side campaign that's for all evil PCs as well. If it's Pathfinder, it should be allowed. The world of Golarion has been set to "emerging guns" as a default, and so I'd be fine with such a campaign following that guideline. High tech stuff should be limited to Iron Gods campaign, so I'd be fine with a ban on that (unless a specific module starts with a few ray guns on the floor, each with enough charges in them to fire a dozen time... i.e. they fizzle to useless junk on module completion, etc.)
I completely understand that with the years, Pathfinder stuff has expanded to a level where it has put a load on campaign staff to keep tabs on. The solution is deregulation and simplicity: gold value caps should make sure nobody walks around with a golem or siege engines. I mean come on. Siege engines? miniaturized? you're aware some of them have a puny Ref save of 15 right? sigh...