One of the things I’ve always had an issue with in all versions of D&D is the idea that everything is a “Monster”. Many of the monsters in the Monster Manual are unique and would not be encountered more than once in a player’s life time. Bosses should be epic creatures, Smaug the Dragon or Orcus the Demon Prince. These are not stat blocks, these are very special, very powerful and very one-of-a-kind. They should be removed and reframed as NPCs or Monster Bosses, not just XP dumps.
There aren't unique monsters in the MM, except the Tarrasque, if I recall correctly. You could certainly say "This is The Minotaur, there's only one", but that's not the common expectation.
Anything could be used as a boss monster, or a minion, depending on the scale of the campaign.
A hobgoblin leading a troop of goblins could be a boss, or he could be a member of a platoon of hobgoblins the PCs face levels later.
A vampire could be an aristocrat who lays social and political traps for the PCs, with plenty of thralls of his own, or he could be part of a feral trio that happens upon the PCs whilst hunting.
If you advocate for bosses being special, I agree. Give them some unique powers or abilities that may fit better than the default monster abilities. But that's a personal modification one makes for their game, if it was printed you'd probably have the same issue with it.
Adding mythic monster templates can help boost a monster into a boss monster. I especially like the Agile template since it gives dual initiative which helps a solo boss with its action economy.
Many people play big monsters as just experience dumps for players... this is about making it more than that.
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This reminds me of how I did one boss. Firstly, there was an anteroom encounter, wherein an interrogated goblin boasted about his strength (He walks through fire, etc.). From there, his SON attacked first, and he was first directly observed as a roar. From there, he nearly felled a character AND defeated a gelatinous cube, and kept on going. The players were TERRIFIED, and when they finally killed him, they all had a collective moment of “YEAH!”. It was awesome.
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The problem isn't the monster. The problem is the GM. If a GM just slaps monsters into a story and lets players roll over them, then they're just XP dumps. But if a GM plans out a monster's actions and tweaks out it's treasure, adjusts it's feats, gives it a personality, and maybe a template or two; then it's a kick ass boss that players will remember for years.
Smaug wasn't a big bad a$$ because he was a dragon. He was a big bad a$$ because he was Smaug, the great dragon under the mountain.
In our last game, Second Darkness, we ran into a Bebilith. The monster survived our fight and we decided that it had a name. I think the rule is that named monsters get crit cards (might be a house rule, I don't know). In any case, we ran into the same Bebilith later on.
I suppose if a standard monster gets away, the GM can give that one a name and he can come back to haunt the players from time to time and eventually become a boss fight. Instead of the Bosses or Named monsters in the books you have ones on paper for your Campaign.
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You have to remember YOU make the world.
The Bestiaries are stat blocks with some flavor to inspire. So, they present a minotaur to use and give you the basics. When you actually run the game, in the world you create, it can be THE minotaur --- a legendary beast at the heart of a labyrinth that an ashamed king has employed the players to destroy for him. If it's not challenging enough, throw on a few levels of Barbarian and make a mid-level party quake.
Succubi can be only THE succubus; a former courtesan who trucked with dark powers for eternal youth and was cursed to seduce victims to their doom to maintain its beauty.
Especially when it comes to big monsters --- "Titans" can become singular; a lone creation of the elemental chaos itself with power that rivals the gods.
They're called source books for a reason. They give you source material to adjust as you feel fit. And if that's not enough for you, the AP's and Revisited books provide plenty of unique, named monsters with full backstories to boot.
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Here's the flip side to that. Why do only the big monsters get personality? Yes, I run my dragons as proud beasts who are very cat-like in nature. Toying with parties out of amusement or boredom before pouncing on them. Each one has a name. Even the young ones.
But why cant Zibber Glub the Mightiest of Gobs also be memorable? This character was just a regular goblin who was in a small tribe of ten. After watching his friends get slaughtered by the party he begged for his life from the Paladin and then started learning from her. Zibber Glub the Mightiest of Gobs is now the leader of his own adventuring guild, despite his limited intellect, and hired a young orc woman to run his books (she was a bit smarter than the rest of her kin).
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Would you prefer Sean K. Reynolds start a call-in service where he runs your game for you via phone?
Here's the flip side to that. Why do only the big monsters get personality? Yes, I run my dragons as proud beasts who are very cat-like in nature. Toying with parties out of amusement or boredom before pouncing on them. Each one has a name. Even the young ones.
But why cant Zibber Glub the Mightiest of Gobs also be memorable? This character was just a regular goblin who was in a small tribe of ten. After watching his friends get slaughtered by the party he begged for his life from the Paladin and then started learning from her. Zibber Glub the Mightiest of Gobs is now the leader of his own adventuring guild, despite his limited intellect, and hired a young orc woman to run his books (she was a bit smarter than the rest of her kin).
Cats really fit for a lot of dragons, and I know others have run them this way, but for reds I run them as very territorial and vicious dogs. If a dog would bark, the dragon would breathe fire.
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I would, I've got my game to run.
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Remember this: a boss is 5% creature and 95% flavor. You have to play then up plenty of times before the party fights them. Make them hate the boss or at the very least sympathize with it before fighting it.
Also, for the love of D&D don't make them monologue happy. I've tried it multiple times. It doesn't make the fights any more dramatic.
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Here's the flip side to that. Why do only the big monsters get personality? Yes, I run my dragons as proud beasts who are very cat-like in nature. Toying with parties out of amusement or boredom before pouncing on them. Each one has a name. Even the young ones.
But why cant Zibber Glub the Mightiest of Gobs also be memorable? This character was just a regular goblin who was in a small tribe of ten. After watching his friends get slaughtered by the party he begged for his life from the Paladin and then started learning from her. Zibber Glub the Mightiest of Gobs is now the leader of his own adventuring guild, despite his limited intellect, and hired a young orc woman to run his books (she was a bit smarter than the rest of her kin).
That's not so much a flip side as simply a continuation of the same idea. Certainly Zibber can be mightiest of the Gobs, but if he's not a recurring character he's going to get forgotten soon enough. The fact that he has a personality unique to him might make him memorable for a while. But if he manages to escape time and again, gaining XP and levels as the game goes on; Zibber Glub may one day be the big baddie himself. Then he would likely be memorable.
That's a good reason to give some kind of thought to personality for the mooks at low level. Most big bad bosses were mooks at one time; and having one of them move up the ranks counter to the PCs is awesome!
My players avoided a dungeon I prepped, so the nastiest critter from that dungeon is hunting them in the next dungeon they have stepped into, a sunken city in a fetid canyon underneath a castle.
The monster is a highly upgraded poison otyugh, and the terrain means it can easily leap into water or slink away and the party won't follow. It has lashed at and poisoned one of the npcs, and it is sure to attack again before they actually get to the real fight later. This is a tricky otyugh!
In all seriousness though, Vel, if the monsters you set up as "bosses" are not coming off as cool or dramatic, it is your/your GM's fault and no one else's.
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Why can't a rust monster be a boss monster???
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Why can't a rust monster be a boss monster???
Silly Sissyl: it's because they're the good guys!
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No, the thread says that Boss Monsters are not ... ahhh.
Why can't a rust monster be a boss monster???
calm down, satan
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Why can't a rust monster be a boss monster???Silly Sissyl: it's because they're the good guys!
Eat Thread?!
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Would you prefer Sean K. Reynolds start a call-in service where he runs your game for you via phone?Who would say no to this?
*raises hand*
SKR is a decent enough guy I suppose, but his and my design and game style philosophies are too different. I'd rather not have him anywhere near my game.
Okay, I have to ask since I live under a rock, who is this Sean K. Reynolds?
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He's a very opinionated and passionate former employee at Paizo, who has a tendency towards strong expressions of those strong opinions.
Very harsh sometimes, but also very awesome in many ways.
Feel free to disagree with him, but doing so verbally - at least on the forums - is noted as "at your own peril".
(Apparently, he comes off that way more on the forums than in person. I have not yet had the privilege of meeting him face-to-face, but he certainly seems like a really cool guy, and he's been very helpful to me on more than one occasion.)
He eventually voluntarily left Paizo to pursue personal goals and to move away from their home state of Seattle towards the middle of the U.S. (as I recall?), though he still works on PF, just for 3rd party content.
That's the sad news.
The happy news is that Paizo hired Owens and Seifter!
The other happy news is that Sean still hangs around here, so you can pester him and ask him for information about stuff he published years ago! ... not... that... I've... ever... done that... of course^. >.> No^. I certainly never have^. *ahem* Not even once^.
^ This may be a lie.