Goblin Challenge


Advice

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So I was talking with some friends and the subject came up: Can you defeat 60 goblins (out of the bestiary 1) with a first level character solo?

So I'm gonna ask you guys what build would you use for 60 goblins? Using only core stuff please (CR, APG, UM, UE, UC, ARG).

I would try a cavalier with a bow and as many arrows as possible.


Depending on how tightly they are packed, I'm thinking a mindchemist alchemist loaded with acid (rich parents!) could make short work of them. Just keep in mind to drink an expeditious retreat extract, so you can out maneuver them.

This is assuming no ranged weapons of course. If they do have ranged weapons, well, that starts to be a bit dangerous.

A channel cleric could also try to burst them down.


GOBLIN CR 1/3
XP 135
Goblin warrior 1
NE Small humanoid (goblinoid)
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception –1
DEFENSE

AC 16, touch 13, flat-footed 14 (+2 armor, +2 Dex, +1 shield, +1 size)
hp 6 (1d10+1)
Fort +3, Ref +2, Will –1
OFFENSE

Speed 30 ft.
Melee short sword +2 (1d4/19–20)
Ranged short bow +4 (1d4/×3)
STATISTICS

Str 11, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 6
Base Atk +1; CMB +0; CMD 12
Feats Improved Initiative
Skills Ride +10, Stealth +10, Swim +4; Racial Modifiers +4 Ride, +4 Stealth
Languages Goblin
ECOLOGY

Environment temperate forest and plains (usually coastal regions)
Organization gang (4–9), warband (10–16 with goblin dog mounts), or tribe (17+ plus 100% noncombatants; 1 sergeant of 3rd level per 20 adults; 1 or 2 lieutenants of 4th or 5th level; 1 leader of 6th–8th level; and 10–40 goblin dogs, wolves, or worgs)
Treasure NPC gear (leather armor, light wooden shield, short sword, short bow with 20 arrows, other treasure)

Sorry, they have short bows.


Well, a Quilted Cloth armor should stop about 75% of the hits, but a crit (and 60 of them means a bunch will crit) still kill you dead. With 24 AC only a double 20 would confirm... maybe if you twink that out somehow it could work, but you'd also have to be wearing the quilted cloth, which isn't exactly high armor value.

The Exchange

Wear Quilted Cloth underneath your normal armour.


Maybe a sorcerer/wizard could use that -1 will save? Turn them on each other?

Quilted cloth sounds interesting.

For those of you who want a real challenge, the original discussion involved 60 gobs a minute. You could also level up the instant you kill enough of them.

The Exchange

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OK, so here's what you gotta do:
1: Be a cleric of the Fire (Arson) Domain.
2: Convince the local baron to let you use his dungeons as a battleground.
3: Run away from the goblins, into a long straight tunnel that is 5ft wide and has torches placed periodically along the wall.
4: ???
5: Profit

And the Goblin menace burned that night...


Covert Operator wrote:

OK, so here's what you gotta do:

1: Be a cleric of the Fire (Arson) Domain.
2: Convince the local baron to let you use his dungeons as a battleground.
3: Run away from the goblins, into a long straight tunnel that is 5ft wide and has torches placed periodically along the wall.
4: ???
5: Profit

And the Goblin menace burned that night...

If we're selecting ideal conditions, I'd dig a pit trap large enough to contain them all, then lead them into it. Level 0 Commoner wins with enough days to dig the ditch.


LoneKnave wrote:
Well, a Quilted Cloth armor should stop about 75% of the hits, but a crit (and 60 of them means a bunch will crit) still kill you dead. With 24 AC only a double 20 would confirm... maybe if you twink that out somehow it could work, but you'd also have to be wearing the quilted cloth, which isn't exactly high armor value.

Be a goblin yourself. Assuming 22 Dex and Dodge, you can net a 19. Get a potion or extract of shield...then cry over how close you got.

I didn't think this math through.

It would be fun to justify "Rich Parents" on a goblin, though.


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The bestiary 1 Goblin statblock has a shortbow, so if this fight happens in an open area you cannot let yourself ever take an attack. It is easily possible for a 1st level character to boost his AC high enough that the goblins require a natural 20 to hit, but they'll still land ~7.9 damage per round on average. I don't think it's possible to kill them fast enough to put a significant dent in that damage output and you'll die in 2-3 rounds, so either you'll need an environment advantage that prevents them from attacking you all at once or a way to prevent them from attacking at all. I'll offer one possible solution for each method.

So, let's start with tactics and presume we can (through careful use of terrain) fight the goblins in small groups. If we boost our AC to 23 they will only hit on a natural 20 (even with flanking bonus), and with rich parents we can milk a supply of potions of CLW for a victory by attrition. I experimented with the Cleric, but the problem is that any build that takes your AC to 23 leaves your offensive abilities insufficient to actually hit the little pests reliably. Given that rich parents lets you buy a ridiculous number of potions of CLW for 50 GP a pop, the extra healing isn't worth it.

I'd say an Orc Fighter 1 would work nicely. Dump intelligence, wisdom, and charisma. Get 22 strength, 13 starting dexterity, and put the rest to constitution. Presuming 15 point buy and 7's are allowed, that leaves 15 in constitution for a total of 13 hit points after favored class bonus. For feats, we'll take dodge and weapon focus (any one-handed melee weapon). We'll use the rich parents trait to get a tower shield, a longsword, and a suit of banded plate at the 1st level. With +1 dex, +1 dodge, +4 shield, +7 armor, that gives us the magic number 23. With 22 strength, we gain a +6 damage bonus and any weapon will 1HKO those goblins. With +1 AB, +6 strength, +1 feat, -2 tower shield we have +6 to hit in total, allowing us to land a blow on those AC 16 goblins on a roll of 10, giving us a 55% chance to kill a goblin each round. This means we need 109 rounds to kill them all.

Now, the equipment I've already listed comes out to 280 GP, so that gives us enough gold for 12 potions of cure light wounds. That gives 12d8+12 hit points of healing. With our 13 hit points to begin with, that leaves us 78 hit points to spare. The goblins hit for 2.5 damage per hit and hit 1 in 20 times (critting 1 in 400 times) for 0.13125 damage per attack attempt on average. This means we can survive 594 attacks in total. Simple math: 594 attacks / 109 rounds = 5.45 attacks per round. That's the tipping point where the goblins start to beat us. So yeah, if you can take the goblins in groups of about 5 at a time and could find brief opportunities to drink potions, you could totally carve your way through 60.

Now let's move on to a more insiduous approach: what if the goblins cannot hit you at all? The bestiary goblin has only a -1 perception check, meaning that if we can boost our stealth score high enough we can snipe them and pick them off with impunity. I propose to fight the goblin horde with... a Goblin Ranger.

Our Ranger will have 22 dexterity, a rank in stealth, take the highlander trait, and place his feat in skill focus (stealth). That gives is +6 dexterity, +3 feat, +1 rank, +3 favored class, +1 trait, +4 size, +4 racial = 22 to stealth. If we snipe, we'll take a -20 penalty, so on a roll of 1 our result is only a 3. If the goblin warriors roll a natural 20 (and there will be a lot of them rolling) then they get a result of 19. Since stealth wins over perception on a tie, we need to force them to incur a -16 penalty to perception. A distance of 160 feet will give us the necessary advantage, so as long as we keep that clearance we can take 1 and they can take 20, they still can't spot us. That does mean we take a range increment penalty with a longbow, but with a +9 attack (counting favored enemy: goblinoid) we can eat that.

Now, obviously this would turn into a bit of a tactics battle, with the goblin horde trying to probe out for your position or lure you into a more vulnerable position. However, this is certainly well within the realms of possibility.


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Twas math that killed the beasts.


Gunslinger can get a blunderbuss at first level, and only needs DEX and some WIS. Ooooor, with mysterious stranger and high enough cha, he could just instagib 15 feet cone of goblins/turn. I think that could work.


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I have this.

Level 1 commoner, rich parents. Buy a herd of combat trained bison. Trample for the win.

Scarab Sages

Level 1 Bard with a tower shield
rich parents
army of 29,000 cats (3 copper each, cheaper per pound than trail rations)
or an army of 87,000 rats (1 copper each)

Use the tower shield to give yourself total cover whilst cheering your legions of animals forward. (make sure to train them all with handle animal first, for a couple years 556 years)

So I guess the reason that people don't weaponize armies of animals is that they take too long to train... TIL


Depending on the environment wearing quilted cloth, using caltrops and casting grease with acid as power component might go a far way to winning.

In a tunnel or canyon cast obscuring mist, place caltrops and add the acid-grease. They can't shoot you and the combination of caltrops and acid-grease kills them.

A tattooed sorcerer can get mage's tattoo for conjuration spells to cast them with CL+1 so both obscuring mist and grease remain 2 minutes. The spells per day are enough to cast both twice. Or obscuring mists once and grease three times.
Depending on your race you can stand in the grease yourself without being damaged by the acid.

Only works if they enter the mist to attack you...
Is there a bloodline that allows you to ignore the mist/fog? Then you could cast acid splash while in the mist.


Human ranger with two instances of Fleet, and plenty of ammo for a longbow. Kite them to death.


Anguish wrote:
Human ranger with two instances of Fleet, and plenty of ammo for a longbow. Kite them to death.

You would still get outrun. They have 30 ft a round. They can charge at 60 feet a round. You move 40 and shoot, they move 60.


Be a goblin with this build Goblin win by attrition

Sovereign Court

Human, Any Good, Master Summoner , Max Cha(CHA 20), get a decent dex.

the feats: Spell focus (conjuration), Augment Summoning.

Summon Celestial Dogs with summon monster SLA, have them use smite evil when they can, with your armies of dogs, would have 2 of them at a time until they die, then summon more.

Use a crossbow to shoot them from a long range.

When you run out of celestial dogs, get your eidolon out.

---------

Still trying to think of something a little less boring, A spirit summoner challenge might be fun.


Eltacolibre wrote:

Human, Any Good, Master Summoner , Max Cha(CHA 20), get a decent dex.

the feats: Spell focus (conjuration), Augment Summoning.

Summon Celestial Dogs with summon monster SLA, have them use smite evil when they can, with your armies of dogs, would have 2 of them at a time until they die, then summon more.

Use a crossbow to shoot them from a long range.

When you run out of celestial dogs, get your eidolon out.

---------

Still trying to think of something a little less boring, A spirit summoner challenge might be fun.

Two celestial dogs will statistically kill 1 goblin/turn with some luck. Together, that is. Lets say the goblins try to kill the dogs first and each of them binds 8 goblins the remaining 44 will try to get the summoner.

And the goblins have a better chance of hitting the dog than the other way round. They deal less damage so about 4 goblins should kill a dog in one round.

Edit: Did not take into account augment summoning. But still ..


Anguish wrote:
Human ranger with two instances of Fleet, and plenty of ammo for a longbow. Kite them to death.

Be a cavalier with a composite longbow on his mount (racer archetype). Now you can move even faster and still shoot. Add the Thoroughbred trait (+5 base speed of the mount. Now the horse has 65ft base speed.

Quote:
You can use ranged weapons while your mount is taking a double move, but at a –4 penalty on the attack roll. You can use ranged weapons while your mount is running (quadruple speed) at a –8 penalty. In either case, you make the attack roll when your mount has completed half its movement. You can make a full attack with a ranged weapon while your mount is moving. Likewise, you can take move actions normally.

So if you are a human you can take point-blank shot + rapid shot to shorten the time needed or you can play it save and take mounted combat and weapon focus comp. longbow.

Scarab Sages

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I can see the premise of this challenge being a local legend in a town, or even city, about how some farmer or baker or someone killed a whole tribe of goblins with naught but his wit and a bit of elbow grease. It might even be a popular children's story.

Also, if you you were able to pack all the goblins into a tight space (say a valley, hole, or large room), a wand of Fireball with a single charge is within the upper stretch of starting WBL, and could hit 64 creatures theoretically.


Verminious Hunter:

Choose any vermin companion, i suggest the giant mantis for superior movement and apply permanent fast healing 1 and light fortification through the worm focus.
Take spirit's gift as your feat and commune with the stone spirit to give your companion dr 5/adamantine. This ignores all non crits and even most of the crits, if they make it through the fortification. Any damage the mantis would take will be healed through the fast healing.

You hide or run away, your companion will shred the goblins to bits.

Edit: Just reread and noticed the ACG is out of bounds


Are the Goblins in waves or all at once?

Scarab Sages

Negative Energy cleric with a tower shield? Hide behind the shield in an alcove with total cover, and channel to harm when they are all in your area. Fire or Madness variant channeling is probably better for this, as they will either catch on fire or attack themselves/each other if confused.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Covert Operator wrote:
Wear Quilted Cloth underneath your normal armour.

Do the rules allow this? That seems kind of over-powered. . .


The problem with rounding them all up into a small area is that you are expecting them to do as you want. Goblins rarely stick to their own plans, I doubt they will stick to yours.

The problem with the cleric hiding behind a tower shield in an alcove is that after the first use of your bad channel they are going to throw alchemist fire or something in your direction.

The only way to do it is to run them down.

Scarab Sages

THe problem with the cleric channel is that it doesn't effect total cover, and if you have total cover from all sides, THEY have total cover. Also, I think the uber-companion wins. XD


Davor wrote:
THe problem with the cleric channel is that it doesn't effect total cover, and if you have total cover from all sides, THEY have total cover. Also, I think the uber-companion wins. XD

I agree but a herd of bison could pull it off.


Goddity wrote:
Anguish wrote:
Human ranger with two instances of Fleet, and plenty of ammo for a longbow. Kite them to death.
You would still get outrun. They have 30 ft a round. They can charge at 60 feet a round. You move 40 and shoot, they move 60.

Colour me confused. Why would you only single-move? If you've got move 40 and they have move 30, by definition they can never close with you. You move out to around 100ft, and you shoot. They double move to close, you double move until you're far enough out to shoot them again.

Unless they're also using ranged weapons, in which case frankly 60 of them are going to manage to roll natural 20s pretty often, even firing from a range increment or two out.

Stealth may be required, and time to snipe.

Scarab Sages

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The goblins aren't the problem, they're the solution to the problem.

Bard, maxed out charisma. Silent image of books in all the nearby goblins's hands. Free action shout: "KILL THE READERS!!!".


Duiker wrote:

The goblins aren't the problem, they're the solution to the problem.

Bard, maxed out charisma. Silent image of books in all the nearby goblins's hands. Free action shout: "KILL THE READERS!!!".

Current Favourite.

How about playing a goblin with maxed bluff and infiltrating the hoard? Throw some alchemists fire around, convince them it was someone else, turn them on each other.


Goddity wrote:
Duiker wrote:

The goblins aren't the problem, they're the solution to the problem.

Bard, maxed out charisma. Silent image of books in all the nearby goblins's hands. Free action shout: "KILL THE READERS!!!".

Current Favourite.

How about playing a goblin with maxed bluff and infiltrating the hoard? Throw some alchemists fire around, convince them it was someone else, turn them on each other.

I can see it now. Carry two alchemist flasks. Hand one over to blurgg. Throw the other at another goblin. Yell and point at blurgg. "Blurgg did it. Blurgg strongest."

The Exchange

Kelvar Silvermace wrote:
Covert Operator wrote:
Wear Quilted Cloth underneath your normal armour.
Do the rules allow this? That seems kind of over-powered. . .

Yah. Here's some rules quotes:

UE: Armor wrote:
Armor/Shield Bonus: Each type of armor grants an armor bonus to armor class (AC), while shields grant a shield bonus to AC. The armor bonus from a suit of armor doesn't stack with other effects or items that grant an armor bonus.
Armored Coat wrote:
ARMORED COAT: This sturdy leather coat is reinforced with metal plates sewn into the lining. An armored coat is more cumbersome than light armor but less effective than most medium armors. The advantage of it is that a person can don it or remove it as a move action (there is no "don hastily" option for an armored coat). If worn over other armor, use the better AC bonus and worse value in all other categories; an armored coat has no effect if worn with heavy armor. The only magic effects that apply are those of armor, clothing, or items worn on top.

So what these tell us is that when you wear two suits of armour, the Amour Bonus to AC doesn't stack, and you use the worse value in all other categories. "DR 3/- against ranged piercing attacks" isn't a category, so it stacks.

It is a bit OP, but that is comparing current options to new options. This Quilted Cloth + better Armour is a trick only available to Martials fighting other Martials, so Martials having access to this trick and Casters not is really just letting them catch up to Casters.


Duiker wrote:

The goblins aren't the problem, they're the solution to the problem.

Bard, maxed out charisma. Silent image of books in all the nearby goblins's hands. Free action shout: "KILL THE READERS!!!".

Brilliant mind trick, but Silent Image specifically says you can create one creature, object, or force. So one book per round? However, Silent Image could be used in conjunction with a cliff/trap to kill quite a few, but some are going to pass their saves, even with that -1 Will.


You haven't set the parameters. Can I pick a long-lived race, run far away, and just wait for all the goblins to die of old age?


is ACG fair game?


Sure ACG is game. I missed it on the first list. I just don't want any weird 3rd party stuff. If you want it rephrased slightly, lets say PFS legal.

You could wait for them too die of age, but you may have a hard time outrunning 60 goblins for the rest of your life.

Apart from that some of these are really interesting.


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Goddity wrote:

Sure ACG is game. I missed it on the first list. I just don't want any weird 3rd party stuff. If you want it rephrased slightly, lets say PFS legal.

You could wait for them too die of age, but you may have a hard time outrunning 60 goblins for the rest of your life.

Apart from that some of these are really interesting.

in that case , i say a pack lord druid with a boar companion.

spirits gift and evolved animal companion
boar has 24 ac and DR 5 adamantine.
druid is up to a mile away commanding the boar via emphatic link.
even a crit is doing avg 1 point of dmg with the bows.


I'm thinking this is a job for a Rogue. If the Rogue catches the Goblins unawares, he or she might create a wilderness of traps in and around the camp. He could steak past guards and enter their camp, killing several of them in their sleep. He could wait for small patrols and foraging parties and pick off a few at a time. He could correctly guess their next target, and spoil their prize, poisoning the grain, beef, and/or water. Then while they are all sick with poison, sneak in and kill more of them.

This presupposes a lot of luck and good equipment. Goblins are pretty good at being sneaky, too. It would be hard to outsneak goblins. But I think that gives the best chance of success for a single level 1 character.

Huh, how about a Bard coming right into the village and charming the goblins and getting them to leave, or telling them a convincing lie about a large army of horsemen about to arrive. Either a bard or a rogue might do a good job of that.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
I'm thinking this is a job for a Rogue

*Raises hand; opens mouth; pauses; closes mouth; lowers hand; walks away*


Just kidding THE ONLY JOB A ROGUE GETS IS BEHIND A DESK WHERE HE CAN'T HURT HIMSELF


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Experiment 626 wrote:
You haven't set the parameters. Can I pick a long-lived race, run far away, and just wait for all the goblins to die of old age?

I'm pretty sure they breed like rabbits. 60 will turn into 6000


Look guys you can't win against Goblins. Don't even try.


Alchemist
They make bombs. Bombs go boom
Goblins are flammable just like everything else
SPLASH WEAPONS FOR DAYS


Kobold Cleaver wrote:
Just kidding THE ONLY JOB A ROGUE GETS IS BEHIND A DESK WHERE HE CAN'T HURT HIMSELF

A Hater's gotta hate.


Murder hobo. Dirty longshanks! EKKIE FOR LIFE!


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Be a gnome. Disguise self, pretend to be a goblin, and kill them all in their sleep.


A level 1 character can easily defeat a pack of 60 goblins. Take the Rich Parents trait. Buy a potion of invisibility. Make a bunch of the drug Black Keif, as well as many Pellet Grenades. Turn invisible, release the drug, set the grenades on the ground, and run. Repeat as necessary, but the first time should be enough to start a fight between the goblins.


Easy. Use a Level 1 Mythic Tier 10 character and it's absurdly easy to kill a mere 60 goblins. :)

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