10 rounds of rage seems a little low for a character who depends on the claws for damage and no way to rage cycle.
Losing a level of two from Unchained Rogue would probably be worth gaining the BAB and rage rounds of barbarian.
Have we figured out how to work spell sunder into this build yet?
10 rounds of rage seems a little low for a character who depends on the claws for damage and no way to rage cycle.
Losing a level of two from Unchained Rogue would probably be worth gaining the BAB and rage rounds of barbarian.
Thinking about it. Its one of those things where I have to play it and see. Round 1 is generally move up and attack or climb on, so claws and rage aren't really needed. THEN the rage kicks on in round 2. Over 4 combats that lets me have an extra round, so thats 15 rounds of combat a day I'd be good for.
I'm not stuck to rogue after ninja trick wall climber. More barbarian after that could work.
Also not sure on combat expertise improved trip. I could drop that for extra rage.
How does one rage cycle?
Becoming immune to fatigue allows you to use rage, then drop it and then fire it off again the next round. It is usually used to make use of 1xper rage abilities but for you, it would allow you to pop claws for a few rounds and be able to drop them as you swap opponents and pop them again before the limitation on rage would let you. It wouldn't be needed if you have enough to cover all your encounters but would come in handy if you had limited rounds.
Ellias Aubec, I was going to bring that up as well. It was an issue I had to wrestle with when I did my build for a fox. It is rough because it puts off my first level of Monk until 4th. But at least before then I can wear armor so it isn't a total loss.
BNW, you cannot take your rogue level at level 3 if you want fox shape then - that first level is 0 BAB, and you need 1 BAB for each of those first 3 levels to meet the reqs for Fox Shape.
Doh. thank you.
This is my Bloodmarked Skinwalker build so far:
1st: Barbarian (urban) 1 [Bat Shape feat]
2nd: Swashbuckler (mouser) 1 [Weapon Finesse feat]
3rd: Fighter (unarmed) 1 [Monkey Style, Piranha Strike feats]
4th: Monk Unchained (MoMS/KM) 1 [Monkey Shine feat]
5th: Barbarian (urban) 2 [Snake Style feat]
6th: Monk Unchained (MoMS/KM) 2 [Snake Fang feat]
7th: Fighter (unarmed) 2 [Combat Reflexes, Stand Still feat]
Are there any obvious flaws or issues I've overlooked?
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10 rounds of rage seems a little low for a character who depends on the claws for damage and no way to rage cycle.
Losing a level of two from Unchained Rogue would probably be worth gaining the BAB and rage rounds of barbarian.
Thinking about it. Its one of those things where I have to play it and see. Round 1 is generally move up and attack or climb on, so claws and rage aren't really needed. THEN the rage kicks on in round 2. Over 4 combats that lets me have an extra round, so thats 15 rounds of combat a day I'd be good for.
I'm not stuck to rogue after ninja trick wall climber. More barbarian after that could work.
Also not sure on combat expertise improved trip. I could drop that for extra rage.
How does one rage cycle?
I would definitely skip trying to trip with this build. You can only trip things up to one size larger than you. If you're in fox shape (tiny), the biggest thing you'll ever be able to trip is small. So most everything you fight you won't be able to trip--not even including things normal builds can't trip because of their trip cmd bonuses or just being untrippable.
For the build I posted two posts up, which class would it be best to continue advancing after: Urban Barbarian or Monk Master of Many Styles / Kata Master?
Completely forgot about the size limits on trip. Should search out replacement feats...
Thank you helpful stone golem thing.
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This is my Bloodmarked Skinwalker build so far:
1st: Barbarian (urban) 1 [Bat Shape feat]
2nd: Swashbuckler (mouser) 1 [Weapon Finesse feat]
3rd: Fighter (unarmed) 1 [Monkey Style, Piranha Strike feats]
4th: Monk Unchained (MoMS/KM) 1 [Monkey Shine feat]
5th: Barbarian (urban) 2 [Snake Style feat]
6th: Monk Unchained (MoMS/KM) 2 [Snake Fang feat]
7th: Fighter (unarmed) 2 [Combat Reflexes, Stand Still feat]Are there any obvious flaws or issues I've overlooked?
Unchained monk can't take archtypes
It looks like pretty explicit denial to me, BBT.
The line "Finally, with the exception of the monk, these classes should work with any of the archetypes from previous books as long as the classes still have the appropriate class features to replace." Does not explicitly deny it, but let's you know that most archetypes will not work.
How about we just re-order this?
"Finally, these classes should work with any of the archetypes from previous books as long as the classes still have the appropriate class features to replace, with the exception of the monk."
So all of the classes should work with archetypes. Except the monk; it doesn't work with archetypes. There really isn't a hair to split here, the Unchained Monk doesn't work with archetypes, at least not in Paizo's eyes, which is what matters in PFS.
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Still have to look at Unchained Rogue, but I'm currently highly considering a Sorcerer dip for claws, then Lesser Fiend Totem for a gore, to get 4 natural attacks with the Kistune Fox Shape bite. They'd all be d2 (except the gore at d4), but lots of bonus damage for a few rounds a day. You'd need to be able to make quite a few unarmed strikes a round to justify dropping those to secondary (especially since you can have all of those by 3, or 4 if you want Fox Shape at 3).
For Grr I went urban barbarian for the claws, and I'll eventually pick up a helm of the mammoth lord for the gore
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Initially, the Unchained Rogue looks to be tailor-made for this build but, upon trying to incorporate it, it becomes apparent that its abilities become largely redundant once you add in a level of Swashbuckler and the Amulet of Mighty Fists (Agile) that the build necessitates. A shame; it'd be nice to streamline the build a bit with the Unchained Rogue. Meh.Actually, Unchained Rogue has a couple of nice things for this. Some of them are just nice, like Dex to damage (saving your amulet gold for actual enchants) and weapon finesse.
Except the dex to damage is only for one weapon type. So - pick either bite, unarmed, or claws. (Though I still say that Aspect of the Beast doesn't apply once you change out of your standard form.) So - only one of those would get their dex to damage at level 3 of Unchained Rogue.
Question: Can you even use Stand Still with this build?
Benefit: When a foe provokes an attack of opportunity due to moving through your adjacent squares, you can make a combat maneuver check as your attack of opportunity. If successful, the enemy cannot move for the rest of his turn. An enemy can still take the rest of his action, but cannot move. This feat also applies to any creature that attempts to move from a square that is adjacent to you if such movement provokes an attack of opportunity.Stand Still states that you have to be moving through your adjacent squares. If your enemy is provoking via either Monkey Shine or underfoot assault, she's not provoking because she's moving through your adjacent squares; she's provoking as the result of a specific class feature / feat, which triggered because she's moving out of your space, which is much, much different.
As far as I can find, there's no way to actually stop your enemy from fleeing you; your best bet is to take Step Up and Following Step to move 10 feet with them. Because as a Tiny creature, you have no reach and therefore don't threaten enemy squares.
+1. In my opinion stand still is a waste of a feat as it only works for adjacent squares and as a tiny creature you don't threaten adjacent squares.
Snake Style would also not work in regards to the AoO that you take while moving into the enemy square. Since the AoO interrupts the action, you are attacked while still in an adjacent square. This would activate snake style and give you an AoO but because you are still in said adjacent square and don't threaten you can not follow through. It will only work if the enemy decides to attack you while you are in their square.
Also, Step up and it's following feats would not be useful for the same reasoning. Step up specifically calls out an adjacent enemy.
Excuse my previous posts. I am late to the party.
So I am going to try building a version of this concept using a PFS legal alchemist for the vast majority of the lvls. Probably something along the lines of Beastmorph 3/ Mouser 1 / Beastmorph X. I am probably going to burn my Grippli boon on this concept. Nothing says humiliation like having your ass handed to you by a tiny frog.
shroudb comes in, wrecks everyone's day and swaggers out.
+1. In my opinion stand still is a waste of a feat as it only works for adjacent squares and as a tiny creature you don't threaten adjacent squares.Your own square is considered to be an adjacent square.
Rules text: (Under Attacks) Melee Attacks: With a normal melee weapon, you can strike any opponent within 5 feet. (Opponents within 5 feet are considered adjacent to you.)
Within 5' is completely different than in your square though. The general rules are written assuming you are taking up at least a 5'x5' area. Going tiny changes things.
So your argument is that if it is within 2 inches of you it is not within 5 feet of you?...
Stand still wouldn't work because it is only triggered when an enemy provokes an aoo by moving through a threatened square. The aoo triggered by the mouser ability would not trigger stand still.
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I'm pretty certain your own square counts. It's definitely within 5 feet of you.
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Hi all,
First, props to Breq for starting the thread. With Pumelling Charge in PFS play, I'd thought I would throw this one in the ring.
This plan helps overcome DR and makes great use of the moms extra feats to get pumelling style on a non-brawler.
One other problem I've encountered is that until you attack, you look like a harmless bird, so enemies don't swing at you (starting snake chains of doom). Thus the value of the pumelling charge.
1 - wpn finesse
2 -
3 moms - snake style, [snake fang]
4 unarmed fighter - Combat Reflexes
5 moms - TWF, pummeling style, evasion
6 unarmed fighter - snake sidewind, bravery
7 unarmed fighter - Impr TWF, close training +1 Atk, +3dmg with close weapons)
8
9 unarmed fighter - [pumelling charge], snake fang
10
11
Personally I like urban barbarian with this, but switch out claws with scent for the rage power then give the party kaava musk for a +2 Atk and +2 dmg while raging with scent (take that invisible spell casters!).
Last, depending on the GM, the magic effect from brawling armor would also apply to the UAS.
Have fun storming the castle!
Oli