Hi
A few days ago I found out about Realm Works. I looked at their website, watched the video there but I'm still a bit confused as to what it does, and what it doesn't do.
A bit about my situation:
I'm the GM of a PF game that I run via Skype and Roll20.
Now, Realm Works seems to have things that overlap with Roll20 features. Like the Fog of War on maps. I've seen actual dungeon maps in the video too.
Is it a fully functional VTT, or can't you actually run encounters on it?
Also a lot of things like revealing info to players seem to require the players to have the Player Edition, or to be able to see a second screen during actual in-person games. Latter option doesn't work for me since I play online, and I don't think I can get all of my players to get the Player Edition, so I'm wondering, what would be my advantage using this?
What other things are there where Roll20 and Realm Works overlap?
What other things are there where they do not, but complement each other?
Don't just link me to the Website, I read the stuff there, I'm looking for actual first hand experience with this.
First things first: Realm Works is NOT a VTT. It does not and is unlikely to ever have full VTT functionality (Lone Wolf Development don't want to reinvent the wheel).
I use Realm Works (RW), and play online using Roll20 & Skype. So we're in a very close situation.
What is Realm Works? It is campaign management and information database software. The best way to think of it as a computer-based, fully linked database of all of your world-setting information and/or books, and you can reveal individual pieces of information to the players as and when you need to.
(For example, I just finished inputting a major city in my game world, and revealed topics for all of the merchants and businesses, but not for the private residences, since the characters are less likely to know that.)
Player Edition is great if your players are interested in seeing what they have learned in previous sessions (live-reveal - which is realtime reveal of information - is not yet a feature). My players all have Player Edition accounts that I bought them out of my own pocket. Some use it more than others, but since I upload my realm at the end of every game session, and between sessions when I add to it, they can look back in subsequent sessions and say "Ah, yeah, that was it, we needed to go talk to Old Blind Limpy, the guy who runs that pack of street kids... where was he aga... ah, yep, found outside the Wooly Drake on Denthar Street." without me having to tell them anything.
In short: Roll20 is the table at which you play. It moves your figures, tracks your conditions, rolls your dice. Realm Works is all of the GM world/plot/adventure/background/history notes, all of the Player notes, and (soon™) all of the game rules in one place.
Realm Works is the 21st century version of a GM file. If you prefer paper or notes written in a word processor or note-taking software, cool, RW is probably not for you. If you want EVERYTHING in one application on your computer, fully linked together, then RW is well worth a look.
Flaws: RW is usable, but is missing some pieces of functionality that many users have expressed a strong desire for, such as the ability to print and/or export. Or custom calendars (my personal wish). Player Journals aren't in it yet. And the Content Marketplace and Web-access aren't yet in place.
Also, getting your Realm set-up is a lot of work. The team at LWD have taken huge steps to try and make it as easy as possible (especially if you already use software-based campaign notes), but I will not pretend that it's a breeze. I've been working on my Realm on and off since Early Access (whenever that was...), and it's nowhere near complete. But it's complete enough to adventure in and keep my players up-to-date on what they do, who they meet, what they find, and so on.
I consider it essential to my GMing. That's why I Kickstarted it, and that's why I love it. But if the website and what I've said above don't sell it... don't buy it. Yet. Maybe wait for more features, and check again.
[Edit: Realised I wasn't quite as strongly supportive as I could have been, considering that I think RW is absolutely a godsend, amazing, and I don't know how I've managed to GM all this time (25 years) without it. Changed a bit in the closing paragraph.]
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I, too, play and GM online with Roll20 and voice chat. The main GM has been putting content into Realmworks for many months. I recently bought Realmworks player licenses for all the players as a yule gift. We're still waiting for the player journal part to be done. I'll check in with our impressions once we've all used it for a while.
Thanks, glad to get some feedback from people using it in a similar situation like me.
What you say sounds very nice. No, I'm not really happy with using sticky notes and word files, because that's a mess and I'm ALWAYS searching for stuff. Every session I'm "Ok wait a second guys... Where did I save that?"
So having it all in one place would definitely be awesome. I tried using software like XMind once to get a Mindmap like plotstructure down, but it didn't work too well, especially since everything was so spread out everywhere.
But I'm also using the Roll20 Handouts and Character feature (especially with the new Folder system on Dev that's quite nice) for showing stuff to my players during the session. Mostly pictures of people they meet and other things like that.
Which kinda does sound similar to what RW can do, doesn't it? Except from what you said, it can't do it in realtime, so I might still be depending on Roll20 for that.
A few more questions:
1) Is there any way to convert it into a HTML document like a Wiki and upload it? I guess that's what you meant with export, and that it's not in yet?
2) Also, does the GM version include the Player version? (AKA, I'm the GM in my campaign, but can I then use the same program as a player in another?)
3) You mention "player notes" does that mean players can add their own notes to things? For example, they meet and I reveal "Malcom McSuspicious" but they don't really know anything about him yet. They suspect through clue linking that he might be the head of a local gang of cutthroats, but have no proof whatsoever, it's mostly a gut feeling of the players. Can they now add "possible leader of the gang" to it, or would I have to do it? (Because if I do it, it kinda gets an "official" touch, and they might take it as Word of God even if it was totally wrong)
4) To actually use and sync with the Player Edition, I gotta have the Cloud service too?
1) Is there any way to convert it into a HTML document like a Wiki and upload it? I guess that's what you meant with export, and that it's not in yet?2) Also, does the GM version include the Player version? (AKA, I'm the GM in my campaign, but can I then use the same program as a player in another?)
3) You mention "player notes" does that mean players can add their own notes to things? For example, they meet and I reveal "Malcom McSuspicious" but they don't really know anything about him yet. They suspect through clue linking that he might be the head of a local gang of cutthroats, but have no proof whatsoever, it's mostly a gut feeling of the players. Can they now add "possible leader of the gang" to it, or would I have to do it? (Because if I do it, it kinda gets an "official" touch, and they might take it as Word of God even if it was totally wrong)
4) To actually use and sync with the Player Edition, I gotta have the Cloud service too?
1) Not currently but there has been multiple requests for exporting data, and I believe it is on their roadmap (more info about the recent feature request survey here)
2) Yes - If you have the GM version, you can use that to connect as a player in another game.
3) I believe the players enter notes themselves. Those notes will also hyperlink to revealed topics if relevant.
4) If the GM of the campaign has the cloud, the players do not require cloud access/subscription to sync IIRC (I only use the GM version).
I recommend this program - I just started a kingmaker game via D20Pro and Teamspeak, with Realm Works managing our campaign info. The hyperlinking is so good...you no longer have to remember where you put the notes for that blacksmith 3 towns back. If it is in Realm Works it is only a click away.
1) Is there any way to convert it into a HTML document like a Wiki and upload it? I guess that's what you meant with export, and that it's not in yet?2) Also, does the GM version include the Player version? (AKA, I'm the GM in my campaign, but can I then use the same program as a player in another?)
3) You mention "player notes" does that mean players can add their own notes to things? For example, they meet and I reveal "Malcom McSuspicious" but they don't really know anything about him yet. They suspect through clue linking that he might be the head of a local gang of cutthroats, but have no proof whatsoever, it's mostly a gut feeling of the players. Can they now add "possible leader of the gang" to it, or would I have to do it? (Because if I do it, it kinda gets an "official" touch, and they might take it as Word of God even if it was totally wrong)
4) To actually use and sync with the Player Edition, I gotta have the Cloud service too?
1) Not currently but there has been multiple requests for exporting data, and I believe it is on their roadmap (more info about the recent feature request survey here)
2) Yes - If you have the GM version, you can use that to connect as a player in another game.
3) I believe the players enter notes themselves. Those notes will also hyperlink to revealed topics if relevant.
4) If the GM of the campaign has the cloud, the players do not require cloud access/subscription to sync IIRC (I only use the GM version).
I recommend this program - I just started a kingmaker game via D20Pro and Teamspeak, with Realm Works managing our campaign info. The hyperlinking is so good...you no longer have to remember where you put the notes for that blacksmith 3 towns back. If it is in Realm Works it is only a click away.
Expanding on a couple of points (since Jay hit the nail on the head for most of it).
3) Player notes are notes that players can add to the realm, which only that player can see, with full linking. My wife has been making good use of them to keep herself up-to-date. Player Journals will be the same thing, but available for everyone with access to the realm to see.
4) Jay is correct: I, as the GM, have an active cloud sub. My players do not. Their ability to sync to my realm is on my dime.
Now, for a little something extra: Player View. Player View creates a window on your machine in which you can display revealed info to your players. You can set it all up beforehand, and display it to them with single mouse-clicks. It will only display content you have flagged as revealed.
Since you play using Skype, you can use Skype's built-in screen-sharing (set to "show one window") on the Player View Window to have realtime reveal during gameplay. I only learned about this 12 hours ago (I really should keep up wth Skype's features...), just after I posted my first reply, but I've since tested it and it works like a dream. This option brought to you by one of RW's developers, who recommended it to me.
Edit: Unless they've recently changed the deal, buying the GM Edition comes with 6 months of free cloud time, so you won't get hit with a sudden recurring fee if you buy it. I believe this is a "limited time offer" (that's been on for a while, now), so might change.
Hmm, had not thought about using the player view window through Skype. That might work, but they'd only "see" it, they couldn't actually click on anything and "use" it, can they? Follow links and such?
The 6 month cloud service is still part of it from what I know.
I really wished there was a demo for it. Could be like the hero lab demo where you can do stuff but can't save it.
Quatar in order to avoid losing my notes on my computer I created a filing system.
Example follows:
RPG
....Specific gaming system(such as Pathfinder)
........Adventure Modules
........Adventure Paths
...........Carrion Crown
...........Rise of the Runelords
..............Books
..............Maps
..............NPC's
.................Enemies(This will have the herolab file, and the pdf character sheet in the same folder).
Now occasionally I get lazy and put something in a random place, but other than that it is not hard for me to find something.
Hmm, had not thought about using the player view window through Skype. That might work, but they'd only "see" it, they couldn't actually click on anything and "use" it, can they? Follow links and such?
The 6 month cloud service is still part of it from what I know.
I really wished there was a demo for it. Could be like the hero lab demo where you can do stuff but can't save it.
You are correct in that Player View might as well be a static image (albeit one that the GM can update in realtime) as far as the players are concerned.
During the session, I can display things in Player View realtime, then sync at the end of the session, so that the players can use their own Player Edition to see stuff revealed in previous sessions (with all the links working in PE).
Yes, it's a shame there's no demo, but RW saves things so frequently that it's not really feasible.
Is there any similarity between Realm Works and Obsidian Portal?
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Its basically Obsidian Portal on crack. All of the features I've ever used on OP are there (in some form or fashion) in Realmworks. I'm unfamiliar with the player view since I use it solely for GM benefit, but I think that was covered a bit up-thread.
Also, woah, Skype will do a screen sharing?
Now if they'd only let you drag and drop images into the chat area..
/tangent
Also, woah, Skype will do a screen sharing?
Yep. And that was pretty much my reaction to finding out. It definitely wasn't a Skype feature when RW launched, but now that it is...
Quatar in order to avoid losing my notes on my computer I created a filing system.
Example follows:
RPG
....Specific gaming system(such as Pathfinder)
........Adventure Modules
........Adventure Paths
...........Carrion Crown
...........Rise of the Runelords
..............Books
..............Maps
..............NPC's
.................Enemies(This will have the herolab file, and the pdf character sheet in the same folder).Now occasionally I get lazy and put something in a random place, but other than that it is not hard for me to find something.
Well I tried doing it like that, but I still manage to put stuff soemwhere it doesn't belong. That's totally my fault, but probably means that system doesn't work so well for me :)
Its basically Obsidian Portal on crack. All of the features I've ever used on OP are there (in some form or fashion) in Realmworks. I'm unfamiliar with the player view since I use it solely for GM benefit, but I think that was covered a bit up-thread.
So what are your experience using it solely for GM works, would you say it's still worth it?
I'll probably get it next week when I got more time to play with it, I think.
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If you're looking for place, npc, and event continuity within the world or between campaigns, then yes, it is completely worth it. If you're a minutiae kinda guy, then it is probably worth it. If you're running an AP by the books with no world changing continuity between AP #N and #N+1, then its probably not worth the extra legwork.
Example: I have a mythic game set in a homebrew world. I used RW extensively when we were playing it to bring the fragments of my gameworld into a more codified place than a handful of .txt files.
We're currently playing Mummy's Mask, and I have only started it up once to update a deity that I did a bit more development on.
If you're looking for place, npc, and event continuity within the world or between campaigns, then yes, it is completely worth it. If you're a minutiae kinda guy, then it is probably worth it. If you're running an AP by the books with no world changing continuity between AP #N and #N+1, then its probably not worth the extra legwork.
Example: I have a mythic game set in a homebrew world. I used RW extensively when we were playing it to bring the fragments of my gameworld into a more codified place than a handful of .txt files.
We're currently playing Mummy's Mask, and I have only started it up once to update a deity that I did a bit more development on.
It's worth noting that there are plans to get campaigns (Adventure Paths as well as third party offerings like Razor Coast and so on) made available for purchase to be imported ready to go into Realm Works though. That'd mean that you'd be able to use the linking and reveal features without having to actually enter the data yourself.
I haven't been keeping up with it, as I hadn't had a decent computer at home for nearly 2 years and my netbook was struggling to run a web browser, let alone stuff like Hero Lab and Realm Works, but I've got one now and am planning on diving back in to Realm Works once I reinstall it so I can see what's changed.
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I'm also a fan of Realm Works. Even just for organizing my own notes, without player edition or the cloud, I consider it worth the price. Player Edition is a bonus and more or less replaces the campaign wiki we've used for previous campaigns with almost no added work (I just have to keep my notes neat enough for the players to read, which helps me too).
I also use Skype and Roll20, though the latter is new to me so I don't have energy invested in the handouts system. The handouts and some maps are a bit redundant with RealmWorks and it does take a bit of extra work if you want that content available on both Roll20 and RealmWorks.
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It's worth noting that there are plans to get campaigns (Adventure Paths as well as third party offerings like Razor Coast and so on) made available for purchase to be imported ready to go into Realm Works though. That'd mean that you'd be able to use the linking and reveal features without having to actually enter the data yourself.
This would be huge with the giant Frog God adventures. To me, this is what could make Realm Works the most worth-while.
I am running Rappan Athuk and have the campaign up on Obsidian Portal. Some of my players are writing Journals, and some aren't. But what I was interested in knowing was what would encourage me to switch to RW over OP. I like the idea of posting all of Frog God Games campaigns to RW and thing that would wind up an awesome campaign. I am anxiously awaiting the Campaign Setting book.
If you're looking for place, npc, and event continuity within the world or between campaigns, then yes, it is completely worth it. If you're a minutiae kinda guy, then it is probably worth it. If you're running an AP by the books with no world changing continuity between AP #N and #N+1, then its probably not worth the extra legwork.
Ok, that sounds really good.
I'm not running an AP, it's a homebrew world based on Golarion (reusing many names of countries, general politics etc, but changing a lot too), so I do have to keep track of a lot of s#*+.
The fact that so far nobody came in yet and said "Nope it's horrible and not worth the money" says quite a bit I think. The worst was something like "you might not get 100% out of it, if you already do this and that another way".
So yes I'm definitely going to give it a try.
The worst I can say about it so far is it is a LOT of data input! I am hoping to eventually use it to tie a lot of the Lost Lands together in one spot. Working on Razor Coast at the moment.
A lot of data entry is the one major downside. My realm puts me in the top 200 size-wise, and I only have a few hundred topics, many of them essentially empty. I know that the largest realm anyone has created has in excess of 7,000 topics in it (figures given to me privately, without specifics, there isn't a "ranking" that's publicly available).
I'm not a dedicated realm-crafter: I've been hapahazardly adding topics as and when I need them, and slowly adding a major city. I've been using RW since day one of Early Access (August 2013).
I will never try to tell someone that getting your realm set up is "easy", but it's certainly simple, and pays dividends in organisation.
As with any campaign creation, you get out what you put in, and if you're prepared to spend the time getting it set up (and its flexible enough to allow you to set it up however you want), it's a huge time- and energy-saver.
I would be all over this software if I had a PC.
That generally helps Grimmy.
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I bought Realm Works about a year ago. After digging into it for several days, I put it aside and haven't touched it again since.
It wasn't because of the fairly steep learning curve, or the work it takes to initially set up a realm. It all got down to not wanting to do all that work only to have my data be locked up in the product.
There is no way to extract your data once it's in there. There are no printing options. Given the results of their recent user survey, they aren't likely to put those options into the product anytime soon. To be honest, they are running way behind on getting basic functionality into the product that they promised long ago.
I have a lot of experience with ending up with locked data when a product ceases to be produced. I'm not just talking about hobby software put out by small companies. I have had it happen with large public library software, as well (getting it back out was always a nightmare). Lone Wolf swears that they will find a way to dump the data to the users if they ever go out of business, but nobody can predict the future, and (sadly) I have heard that line before from other well-intentioned but unrealistic companies.
Realm Works is a good idea, but the product is not ready for prime time. It works, but a lot of basic functionality is not there yet, and may be years in the making.
My free year of connectivity to their servers ends soon, and I won't be purchasing any more time with them. The functionality I want and need to make it a viable product for me may not be implemented for years. Given that, I just have to accept that I won't be getting any value out of the money I already spent.
The fact that so far nobody came in yet and said "Nope it's horrible and not worth the money" says quite a bit I think.
You have only heard from a couple of people over the course of a few days.
Trust me, there are a lot of dissatisfied Realm Works customers out there. I'm one of them. The major complaints tend to revolve around the company not delivering on program capabilities that were promised a long time ago.
I would caution you to think long and hard on this: data you put in can't be exported or printed. If that doesn't worry you, it might be a product that will work well for you. It's a deal-killer for me, though.
It's worth noting that there are plans to get campaigns (Adventure Paths as well as third party offerings like Razor Coast and so on) made available for purchase to be imported ready to go into Realm Works though. That'd mean that you'd be able to use the linking and reveal features without having to actually enter the data yourself.
There are plans for a lot of things to be added to Realm Works, but very little has been. This company's past performance is something to really consider, since they haven't shown any indication of actually speeding up their snail's-pace development of Realm Works.
I love Hero Lab. I think they bit off more than they can chew with Realm Works, though.
I had a lot of success using realmworks to set up a complicated social game - Courts of the shadow fay - and run it. I think when it has additional material you can purchase, it will be a very powerful tool. It's been a harder challenge to program than Lone Wolf expected, but it is coming along.
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There are plans for a lot of things to be added to Realm Works, but very little has been. This company's past performance is something to really consider, since they haven't shown any indication of actually speeding up their snail's-pace development of Realm Works.
I love Hero Lab. I think they bit off more than they can chew with Realm Works, though.
I read your rant (if that was you, if not, I apologize in advance) on enworld from over a year ago. They took quite a lot of offence to your feedback; to be honest, I thought their responses were a little overboard. It's also interesting to note that a lot of the features they said were coming at that time, still aren't in place.
It's difficult. I'm a huge fan of RW, and I use it for all my games. But yes, it's got a slow development cycle. Really slow.
There are core functions that aren't working yet.
Updates (as opposed to bugfixes) are few and far between.
If you're hoping for fast-paced development and rapid implementation of features, RW is not going to look good.
On the other hand, LWD are as close to perfectionists as I've ever seen from a software development house, and they absolutely refuse to half-arse the job. Which means that when stuff does eventually come out, it is the best they can design (bugs notwithstanding).
LWD are making something new, and want it to be the best it can be. I'm willing to let them take their time over it. Not everyone is. That's fine. I don't think it's particularly fair to rag on them about it, but I certainly can't dispute that people want to and are able to.
Uhm, I just came to know about Realm Works through this thread, but to me it seems far, far excessive to have that price for what to my understanding is basically an offline wiki dedicated to your campaign with the option of keeping an amount of info hidden for players (that can be done online, just a little less pretty, maybe).
What am I missing?
Is it possible to reveal information to only specific players rather than all of them?