[Elton Robb Games] Phaeselis Player's Guide Kickstarter Feedback


Product Discussion


Before I post my kickstarter campaign as is (still no video) I'd like some feedback on how you guys feel about how it is presented.

Stretch Goals would probably mean parts of what is overfunded goes into the GM Sourcebook, and so any stretch goals I come up with would mean it goes into the Sourcebook. This is going to be a cool project, but it's my first kickstarter project so I need some feedback to make it better.

The Wiki that shows off the entire work. And it's still growing. ;) I'd like you to take a look at it for comparison purposes. :)


I would clean up the English a bit, as it gives a bad impression of the product.

For example:

"The campaign setting is unique from Paizo's Golarion, and WotC's Dark Sun and Eberron because of several reasons"

would be better as

"The campaign setting is different from Paizo's Golarion, WotC's Dark Sun and Eberron for several reasons"

You cannot be unique from something else - you can only be unique

"... the Phaeselis Campaign is one where a lot of blood, sweat, and tears were poured into."

Does not read quite right:

"...the Phaeselis Campaign has had blood, sweat, and tears poured into it."

is better

"This means that Ageoi, Psions, and Wilders"

What are Ageoi? Is this meant to be Aegis?

"The idea is not that it's valuable to me, but the campaign setting is valuable to itself."

Not sure what this is meant to mean

Likewise:
I am a value creator, so its my job to create values or to produce values for you to enjoy

How do you produce values? What does that mean?

I think you need an editor to catch these, so I would budget for one in your kickstarter budget


yes.
:)

Although said editor would have to edit my wiki as well. ;) (that's where the manuscript is).


vectorious wrote:

I would clean up the English a bit, as it gives a bad impression of the product.

For example:

"The campaign setting is unique from Paizo's Golarion, and WotC's Dark Sun and Eberron because of several reasons"

would be better as

"The campaign setting is different from Paizo's Golarion, WotC's Dark Sun and Eberron for several reasons"

You cannot be unique from something else - you can only be unique

Yes. It is better.

Quote:


"... the Phaeselis Campaign is one where a lot of blood, sweat, and tears were poured into."

Does not read quite right:

"...the Phaeselis Campaign has had blood, sweat, and tears poured into it."

is better

Yes, I agree.

Quote:

"This means that Ageoi, Psions, and Wilders"

What are Ageoi? Is this meant to be Aegis?

Yes. It's plural and its extrapolated from the words the ancient Greeks used to describe other nations, creeds, or tribes. (Aegis is a terrible name for a class, Jeremy, it ends with an "s"); Examples: Haggaroi, the Hagaritic Arabs; the Keltoi, the Celts; and there are other names for peoples they knew about in their geography -- all ending with "-oi."

Quote:

The idea is not that it's valuable to me, but the campaign setting is valuable to itself."

Not sure what this is meant to mean

Likewise:
I am a value creator, so its my job to create values or to produce values for you to enjoy

How do you produce values? What does that mean?

to answer these questions is a long story so I'll keep it short. The first is an obscure reference to the mission of QuestionCopyright.org. A site that is critical of the theory behind copyright in an age of interconnected computers. Second answer to the question comes from reading the Neothink Society materials.

Quote:


I think you need an editor to catch these, so I would budget for one in your kickstarter budget

As I said before, yes. Although if I had the power to make it so, I'd hire one on the promise to pay his mortgage. However, since I am penniless, I'm very clueless on the rates on how to pay for his time devoted to fixing my English. :)


OK here is somethings I noticed right off the bat when I read it:
1) You never tell me if you are using Dreamscarred Press psionic rules or you are building on from the ground up?

2) You mention your artist Yama Orce (who I know and have worked with) but you don't link to his deviantart page to help promote his reward level or to show off his work.

3) I found it kind of odd that you had never actually backed a kickstarter, especially since you are doing a kickstarter.

Hope this helps.


LMPjr007 wrote:

OK here is somethings I noticed right off the bat when I read it:

1) You never tell me if you are using Dreamscarred Press psionic rules or you are building on from the ground up?

2) You mention your artist Yama Orce (who I know and have worked with) but you don't link to his deviantart page to help promote his reward level or to show off his work.

3) I found it kind of odd that you had never actually backed a kickstarter, especially since you are doing a kickstarter.

Hope this helps.

Hi man.

Answers to 1, 2, and 3.

1 -- Yes, I should say it uses rules from dream scarred press.

2 -- Yes, I should have a link to Yama Orce's deviant page. Plus, I also do the Artwork.

3 -- Uhm, no, I haven't backed a Kickstarter project and I'll tell you why. I've been penniless for 12 years. Finding something to do to trade my time with for what Beneli invented back in about 4,000 B.C. is really, really tough to do, especially if one is a Solarian and you really would like to do things for free (just about all of my 3D Art can be downloaded for free from my deviant art page and can be used free of charge). But that doesn't mean that I have a less valid reason to have a kickstarter project.

I'm not a Lunarian, and I'm not a Stellaran. I don't go around serving myself, or seeking for others to serve me. My basic personality trait is to serve others. :) The kickstarter project isn't about myself, it's about my work. ;)


* Echoing the comments on needing an editor. For people to back what is essentially written content first and foremost you need this to be clear and without error. Currently it reads poorly.

Phaeselis Kickstarter wrote:
The world is shared! The idea is not that it's valuable to me, but the campaign setting is valuable to itself. This means that the goal is to get it out to Gamemasters through out the World. So, any publisher -- Whether they are Wizards of the Coast, Steve Jackson Games, or what have you; has the right to publish their own version of the World for their games or translate it into another language without asking.

What exactly does this mean? Open Source? Free?

Phaeselis Kickstarter wrote:
Once completed, the psionics campaign will be very unique from your standard fare. Adventure in a world where Adventuring is expected and common.

What do you mean by "Once completed"? And "Adventuring" should not be capitalized.

* Why a KS for a Player's Guide, and not a Campaign Setting? Is the campaign setting all on your wiki?

* I'm no fan of Earth-analogs, so this is of no interest to me, nor does it look like it will contain anything to mine for my games. Moreover, the classic time period bores me to tears, so this is even less my cup of tea. You obviously have a lot of work invested in this, and I am familiar with your long running PbP, so I'm not criticizing your choice or work, just letting you know one person's opinion in your market.

* I've always felt "3D art" feels quite soul-less, and your title of "A mighty hero" feels a little empty.

* What are Lunarians, Stellarans and Solarians and what do they have to with this? Are they a personality profile system akin to Astrology, Enneagrams, Myers-Briggs etc? The more esoteric you are, the less I want to have anything to do with what you produce, let alone why.

* Same with Beneli - a google search of beneli (and benelli) and 4000 BC reveals nothing. You need to make things simple for your intended market - as it is it feels like you are being esoteric for for its own sake, or assuming people know what you are talking about. Neither of which I appreciate.


Oceanshieldwolf wrote:

* Echoing the comments on needing an editor. For people to back what is essentially written content first and foremost you need this to be clear and without error. Currently it reads poorly.

*shrug* I'm not perfect when it comes to expressing myself on paper. *shrug*

Quote:


Phaeselis Kickstarter wrote:
The world is shared! The idea is not that it's valuable to me, but the campaign setting is valuable to itself. This means that the goal is to get it out to Gamemasters through out the World. So, any publisher -- Whether they are Wizards of the Coast, Steve Jackson Games, or what have you; has the right to publish their own version of the World for their games or translate it into another language without asking.
What exactly does this mean? Open Source? Free?

Yes, exactly.

Quote:


Phaeselis Kickstarter wrote:
Once completed, the psionics campaign will be very unique from your standard fare. Adventure in a world where Adventuring is expected and common.
What do you mean by "Once completed"? And "Adventuring" should not be capitalized.

You're right.

Quote:


* Why a KS for a Player's Guide, and not a Campaign Setting? Is the campaign setting all on your wiki?

Yes. I didn't want to publish all the 716 wiki pages in one book.

Quote:


* I'm no fan of Earth-analogs, so this is of no interest to me, nor does it look like it will contain anything to mine for my games. Moreover, the classic time period bores me to tears, so this is even less my cup of tea. You obviously have a lot of work invested in this, and I am familiar with your long running PbP, so I'm not criticizing your choice or work, just letting you know one person's opinion in your market.

It's not that perfect.

Quote:


* I've always felt "3D art" feels quite soul-less, and your title of "A mighty hero" feels a little empty.

*shrug*

Quote:

* What are Lunarians, Stellarans and Solarians and what do they have to with this? Are they a personality profile system akin to Astrology, Enneagrams, Myers-Briggs etc? The more esoteric you are, the less I want to have anything to do with what you produce, let alone why.

* Same with Beneli - a google search of beneli (and benelli) and 4000 BC reveals nothing. You need to make things simple for your intended...

** I got a little mad and probably forgot that I am, sadly, the only person on the boards that has read the Sealed Portion. *sigh* There are three types of people on the Earth. Those who serve, those who serve themselves, and those who want to be served by others. :)

The first, those who serve, are closest to the Sun. They are called Solarians for an easy term, you can also call them servants. These belong in, and are of, the glory of the Sun. The second, those who serve themselves, are called Lunarians. These belong in, and are of, the glory of the Moon. The last, those who want to be served by others, are called Stellarans. They belong in, and are of, the glory of the stars.

To answer the last question. Beneli is the result of an anthropologically evolved Homo Sapiens impregnating Eve while said h. Saipens was possessed by Lucifer. After the deed was done, Lucifer left the body and it dropped dead in the Mississippi river. That impregnation is the source of the RH+ gene in most of the population today. It was also the first time Eve ever got pregnant.

Beneli was born brown skinned and black haired. After learning about his real father and obtaining his blessing, he invented money. He also brought human avarice to the surface. His descendants live mostly in India, the Americas (as part of the Native American population), and Africa. Cain's descendants are not the African blacks or Indians, but they live in Eastern Asia and the Americas (again, as part of the Native American Population). *sigh*

Forgive my indignation.


Don't mention any of that in your Kickstarter, though.


Well, I like classical Greece, but otherwise I second everything Oceanshieldwolf said. I have a couple more things to add, though:
For the last year and a half I have been a player in a pbp, GMed by you. On numerous occasions during that time, you have disappeared for more than a month without explanation. Sometimes you'd even be posting on other parts of the forum, but wouldn't even bother to tell us that you wanted to pause the game.
When you run a kickstarter, I think it is very important to keep regular communication with your backers as to how the project is going. Look at how the Fire Mountain Games kickstarter turned out: the backers got really angry because Gary disappeared for months at a time without telling them anything (and, IIRC, he ended up selling the finished product to non-backers before getting copies out to the backers). I wasn't a backer for that kickstarter, but if I were, I would probably have been pretty angry and/or disappointment. I would hope that for any kickstarter I back, the developer would give backers regular updates on progress, and get the project done approximately on schedule. Over on the pbp forum, when you dissapear for an extended period of time without notice or explanation (unlike, for example, Aubrey, who always alerts players ahead of time when he will be gone for more than a day), you lower my confidence in your ability to communicate with backers in a long-term project like a kickstarter.
That may not be fair to you. After all, I should probably expect you to work harder on a kickstarter, for which people pay you money, than a pbp game, for which you get nothing but enjoyment. But feelings of confidence (or lack thereof) are just that: feelings, and hence they are not always rational or fair. If you want to run a successful kickstarter, you need to inspire confidence in potential backers.

Following up on one of OSW's questions,

Oceanshieldwolf wrote:
What do you mean by "Once completed"? And "Adventuring" should not be capitalized.
EltonJ wrote:
Yes, exactly.

This isn't clear enough from a legal standpoint (which is necessary if other publishers are to be able to use your setting.) Are you simply making the setting content Open Gaming Content, in a simlar manner as Purple Duck Games is with Porphyra?

The other main question I have is something you need to make clearer: what is the goal of this kickstarter? Obviously, it isn't to release a PDF of the campaign setting, since you've already done that on the wiki. What about the player's guide makes it necessary to do seperately? Typically I think of player's guides for campaign settings being free or cheaper products that the players can get to learn about the setting without everyone in the group having to buy the whole setting book, while the GM buys the entire setting book. That isn't necessary for a setting which is entirely on a wiki, so what is the intended function of this player's guide that couldn't be accomplished by, say, a "spoilers-free" section on the wiki? Are you looking to publish a print version of the player's guide? If so, you need to make that clearer.


137ben wrote:

Well, I like classical Greece, but otherwise I second everything Oceanshieldwolf said. I have a couple more things to add, though:

For the last year and a half I have been a player in a pbp, GMed by you. On numerous occasions during that time, you have disappeared for more than a month without explanation. Sometimes you'd even be posting on other parts of the forum, but wouldn't even bother to tell us that you wanted to pause the game.
When you run a kickstarter, I think it is very important to keep regular communication with your backers as to how the project is going. Look at how the Fire Mountain Games kickstarter turned out: the backers got really angry because Gary disappeared for months at a time without telling them anything (and, IIRC, he ended up selling the finished product to non-backers before getting copies out to the backers). I wasn't a backer for that kickstarter, but if I were, I would probably have been pretty angry and/or disappointment. I would hope that for any kickstarter I back, the developer would give backers regular updates on progress, and get the project done approximately on schedule. Over on the pbp forum, when you dissapear for an extended period of time without notice or explanation (unlike, for example, Aubrey, who always alerts players ahead of time when he will be gone for more than a day), you lower my confidence in your ability to communicate with backers in a long-term project like a kickstarter.
That may not be fair to you. After all, I should probably expect you to work harder on a kickstarter, for which people pay you money, than a pbp game, for which you get nothing but enjoyment. But feelings of confidence (or lack thereof) are just that: feelings, and hence they are not always rational or fair. If you want to run a successful kickstarter, you need to inspire confidence in potential backers.

I intend to. This is what this page is all about. Staying in communication. That's what the official forums is all about, staying in communication. But lately, I haven't received any communication on any of my pages on how well I've been writing, or how good of work I've been doing, or what I should be doing differently.

Somedays, while I'm contributing to my own wiki, I feel like people are watching, but they aren't giving me the courtesy of feedback. I feel like I'm writing this myself, for myself, somedays. It's not a nice feeling, and it's for everyone. I wonder if this is going to be worth it, and now it's time to do the kickstarter to get the feedback I wanted to see.

Quote:

This isn't clear enough from a legal standpoint (which is necessary if other publishers are to be able to use your setting.) Are you simply making the setting content Open Gaming Content, in a simlar manner as Purple Duck Games is with Porphyra?

The other main question I have is something you need to make clearer: what is the goal of this kickstarter? Obviously, it isn't to release a PDF of the campaign setting, since you've already done that on the wiki. What about the player's guide makes it necessary to do seperately? Typically I think of player's guides for campaign settings being free or cheaper products that the players can get to learn about the setting without everyone in the group having to buy the whole setting book, while the GM buys the entire setting book. That isn't necessary for a setting which is entirely on a wiki, so what is the intended function of this player's guide that couldn't be accomplished by, say, a "spoilers-free" section on the wiki? Are you looking to publish a print version of the player's guide? If so, you need to make that clearer.

Yes, I will make it clearer, in the Frequently Asked Questions. :) I just realized that I need to put up the FAQs, and I wondered what should go in there. Well, definitely the legalities, of course. :)

As to make it clearer. The wiki is currently gets 729 views. As a PDF, prepared professionally and published, it would reach more eyes and live in more minds. The idea is a greater, wider audience. People will always respond more to a Professionally prepared PDF. It will have reviewers to review it. It will have people who will buy it and use it. Plus, as a shared world with the publishing community, it can reach other minds across the world.

More people can review it in Japanese, in Russian, in Hindi, in German, and in French. Possibly even Chinese and Korean. It just doesn't have to be in English. This is why it needs to be published.


For some context here, Elton, I haven't had a lot of direct interaction with you over the years, but I do recall many posts by you here under a few different names, and on other boards like ENWorld.

I understand you've acknowledged the need for an editor for the actual Player's Guide and your wiki, but I think that cannot be emphasized enough. As you yourself state:

EltonJ wrote:
*shrug* I'm not perfect when it comes to expressing myself on paper. *shrug*

This cannot be overstated. You are attempting to bring interest to a product that you have written, and the Kickstarter pitch is unfortunately a fairly good example of your writing style. Your writing always conveys your own enthusiasm about your work and your subjects of interest (Alexander the Great, psionics, realistic campaign weather patterns, public nudity, etc), but does a poor job of enticing others to share that enthusiasm.

I understand that you are not sure how much it would cost to have an editor for the entire project or the wiki, but perhaps you might have a friend or colleague who would be willing to edit just the Kickstarter page for you. If so, I think it would help your pitch immensely. I'd strongly urge you to reach out to other small publishers to check on editor costs though.

As for the art, I actually don't mind the idea of using real-world maps, particularly if the setting is based on a particular era of history, but the character and cover art shown don't sell the product very well.

The hero looks like fairly generic poser art (though I realize you've said in a previous thread that you use a different 3D modeler), and the helmet on the cover mock-up also doesn't grab me.

The idea of a Hellenistic, psionic-focused, near-real-world campaign setting is already going to be fairly niche, so some attention-grabbing art could go a long way. In addition to linking to Yama Orce's Deviantart, as was suggested if you were working with them, perhaps it would be worth seeing if he would let you use a piece of existing character art for the mockup.

I like that you have a 2-page mockup of the layout, but I would suggest that the image should be large enough for the text to be legible. This might be another good opportunity to showcase the editing. Have a side-by-side comparison of the existing wiki page for the topic, and then the mock-up can have post-edited text.

Again, if you are unable to find an editor that would just work on a page or two, I'd suggest asking a friend who conveys themselves well in writing. It is only two pages, and a mock-up after all, so it wouldn't need to show the true final quality, but it should be an improvement over the wiki.

Regarding the rewards. For a first Kickstarter for a niche pdf product like this, I wouldn't suggest offering pledge rewards of more than $50. You can always offer higher reward tiers if it looks like the Kickstarter is going to take off. You're more likely to get interest from a large number of people willing to drop a few dollars than a small number willing to spend $150 towards this kind of product. You may even want to scale your base pledge down to $5 for the pdf.


Volaran wrote:


The hero looks like fairly generic poser art (though I realize you've said in a previous thread that you use a different 3D modeler), and the helmet on the cover mock-up also doesn't grab me.

The idea of a Hellenistic, psionic-focused, near-real-world campaign setting is already going to be fairly niche, so some attention-grabbing art could go a long way. In addition to linking to Yama Orce's Deviantart, as was suggested if you were working with them, perhaps it would be worth seeing if he would let you use a piece of...

*sigh* It's never easy . . .

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