Pathfinder Society Pregens


Pathfinder Society

Silver Crusade 4/5

In the short time I have been running pathfinder society games, I have found that pregens are essential, allowing people to play when they don't have an in tier character, or just allowing someone to try out organised play.

Even though the iconics are, well, iconic, I have found that new players can have an underwhelming experience with pathfinder by having to play sub-optimal characters (I will say that last nights Kyra GMPC and her wand with 50 CLWs was appreciated. although this would have been a pretty dull experience for a player).

In addition to being stronger, it would be good to see pregens that also have a identity in the Pathfinder Society itself, each being a member of a faction (those PCs could even receive faction missions from the older scenarios), and could even be involved in larger plots.

I would love to see 14 new iconic pathfinder society characters, 2 of each race & faction, with 3 classes doubled up, all legal in the CORE campaign. An example distribution could be:

CG Female Gnome Bard of Liberty's Edge
CG Male Half-Orc Fighter of Liberty's Edge

CN Female Human Barbarian of the Exchange
CN Male Gnome Sorcerer of the Exchange

LG Female Dwarf Cleric of the Silver Crusade
LG Male Halfling Paladin of the Silver Crusade

LN Male Dwarf Monk of the Scarab Sages
LN Female Elf Wizard of the Scarab Sages

NG Male Elf Fighter of the Sovereign Court
N Female Halfling Rogue of the Sovereign Court

LN Male Human Cleric of the Dark Archive
LN Female Half-Elf Wizard of the Dark Archive

N Female Half-Orc Druid of the Grand Lodge
N Male Half-Elf Ranger of the Grand Lodge

Lastly, a broader array of levels available, maybe every odd number from 1st - 11th level. Not that my local group has gotten that far yet, but I'm guessing it can't feel good to sit down at 10-11 table and have one of the characters be a 7th level iconic.

What are other peoples thoughts the above, or on pregens in general. I'd also be very interested to hear about peoples positive experiences of playing pregens, if just to coax some of the negativity surrounding them from me.

Pregens are essential to PFS organised play, I think they could be better and provide a better play experience all around.

Silver Crusade 2/5

The pregens topping off at level 7 for PFS play is by design. The purpose is to encourage people to play their own characters, especially at the top tier. It's what players work for throughout PFS.

Silver Crusade 4/5

DesolateHarmony wrote:
The pregens topping off at level 7 for PFS play is by design. The purpose is to encourage people to play their own characters, especially at the top tier. It's what players work for throughout PFS.

This is a fair point, I guess I'd be a little miffed if I'd worked to get a character to top tier play, and someone jumped into the game without having completed 27+ scenarios.

At the same time though, it would be unfortunate to have to stop playing a character because not enough players at your LGS have characters at that tier. I have no idea how much of an issue this is for PFS as a whole though.

Grand Lodge 4/5

The other problem with this recommendation is the pregens are intended to be easy to pick up for a brand new player and play. Obviously some of them are easier than others, but that is the intention. That is also why they are not as optimized as they could be.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

With respect to the 1st level pregens, there is nothing stopping *you* from generating your own with a wider range of class/race/etc options and giving them to players to use. With the free rebuild up to level two it really doesn't matter if the player created their own character or it was provided by someone else.

The level 4/7 pregens are intended to be a stop-gap for players who have no other choice but to play at that level without a legal character of their own. The more pregen options we create, the more likely their use will become increased and that is not the intent. As DesolateHarmony said, we want players to create their own characters to play, even if those characters largely mimic the iconic builds.

I have always said that if a player is forced to routinely play a pregen then either the organizer is doing a poor job of offering a range of play options, or the local players are not being accommodating to the pregen player. Surely, it can be a challenge to meet the needs of all the players, but with a little planning and some cooperation it can be accomplished. As an organizer myself, I take it as a personal failure if my players have to play pregens (4/7), especially if it happens multiple times.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Pre-Gens should NOT be tied to factions.

Silver Crusade 4/5

Bob Jonquet wrote:
With respect to the 1st level pregens, there is nothing stopping *you* from generating your own with a wider range of class/race/etc options and giving them to players to use. With the free rebuild up to level two it really doesn't matter if the player created their own character or it was provided by someone else.

Thanks for the input Bob, this is a great idea, and I'll certainly follow up on it. :)

Bob Jonquet wrote:
The level 4/7 pregens are intended to be a stop-gap for players who have no other choice but to play at that level without a legal character of their own. The more pregen options we create, the more likely their use will become increased and that is not the intent. As DesolateHarmony said, we want players to create their own characters to play, even if those characters largely mimic the iconic builds.

My concern here is that in order to discourage the use of pregens, players have been given quite poor options for the most part, which could lead to a negative play experience which could have been avoided by giving that player a solid character to use.

LazarX wrote:
Pre-Gens should NOT be tied to factions.

Could you elaborate?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jack Amy wrote:
Bob Jonquet wrote:
With respect to the 1st level pregens, there is nothing stopping *you* from generating your own with a wider range of class/race/etc options and giving them to players to use. With the free rebuild up to level two it really doesn't matter if the player created their own character or it was provided by someone else.

Thanks for the input Bob, this is a great idea, and I'll certainly follow up on it. :)

Bob Jonquet wrote:
The level 4/7 pregens are intended to be a stop-gap for players who have no other choice but to play at that level without a legal character of their own. The more pregen options we create, the more likely their use will become increased and that is not the intent. As DesolateHarmony said, we want players to create their own characters to play, even if those characters largely mimic the iconic builds.

My concern here is that in order to discourage the use of pregens, players have been given quite poor options for the most part, which could lead to a negative play experience which could have been avoided by giving that player a solid character to use.

LazarX wrote:
Pre-Gens should NOT be tied to factions.

Could you elaborate?

For example, the Female Gnome Bard should not be tied to Liberty's Edge, or any other faction. This follows the precedent of other pregens and it's a good precedent. The pregens aren't meant to be steady characters, just something for an emergency fill in.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

Technically all the pregens are tied to a faction. The default assumption is they are Grand Lodge. If pregens are used as primarily intended, for new players to join the community, it is unlikely they are familiar enough with the faction system to chose one appropriate for their own eventual character. Remember the point of the pregen is to give a n00b a chance to sit down and play with minimal rules knowledge. The point is for them to learn the basics of gameplay (combat, skills, class abilities, spellcasting, etc) so they can create their own character and thereafter slowly become more familiar with society play. IMO, launching right into factions is counter-productive to the basics and creates an unnecessary additional burden for a new player.

And with respect to level 4/7 pregens, I assume those are experienced players using the pregen as a stop-gap while their "real" character gains more experience. In those case, the player probably should be playing the pregen using the faction of the character the credit is going to be applied to. If the level 4/7 is being used by a n00b, its already not an ideal circumstance and there is even more reason not to burden them with additional rules not specifically necessary for them to play.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Bob Jonquet wrote:


And with respect to level 4/7 pregens, I assume those are experienced players using the pregen as a stop-gap while their "real" character gains more experience. In those case, the player probably should be playing the pregen using the faction of the character the credit is going to be applied to. If the level 4/7 is being used by a n00b, its already not an ideal circumstance and there is even more reason not to burden them with additional rules not specifically necessary for them to play.

Virtually the only time I've ever used a pregen is when I've been asked to fill a table so that it would go off and I'd be playing it for no credit. I try to keep characters available on every level spread and I don't really care about faction boons that much.

I would NOT want pre-gens at any table above 7-8 tier as either GM or Player. The only characters at such tables should be those that the players know how to run intimately, and that only comes from running a character from first level.

4/5

Jack Amy wrote:
DesolateHarmony wrote:
The pregens topping off at level 7 for PFS play is by design. The purpose is to encourage people to play their own characters, especially at the top tier. It's what players work for throughout PFS.

This is a fair point, I guess I'd be a little miffed if I'd worked to get a character to top tier play, and someone jumped into the game without having completed 27+ scenarios.

The far greater issue for me is when someone is picking up a high level for the first time and trying to play it cold.

At our FLGS, I've been at a couple of tables where we gave a brand new player a L7 pregen just so they could get a seat. Not sure I'd do it again. It endangers the characters who will actually be suffering the consequences and leaves the new player completely overwhelmed and risking the resentment of those around him.

Grand Lodge 4/5

@Jack Amy: By the way, while they are not optimized, they are solid characters.

@Bob Jonquet: Every time I tried to find out what faction should be used when someone runs a pregen, I have been informed, even if the PC given the credit is not GL, that they are GL for that session. And cannot earn any non-GL faction rewards. I think there was something in one of the Shadow Lodge or Lantern Lodge faction end scenarios covering that, from Mike or John.

Silver Crusade 4/5

Thanks for feedback everyone, while it never feels good to have ideas shot down, I appreciate the time people have taken to explain their stance and why my idea may be detrimental for organised play.

I've knocked up a couple of core 1st level pregens for use at my local lodge. A 2h weapon fighter & a cleric of Abadar, both Grand Lodge faction, both simple and effective characters. It would be great if these characters never saw the light of day but I have new players sign up quite often and I'm hoping this will create a better impression of Pathfinder for any local newbies.

If I find the time, I may format them to look more like the character sheets from the beginner box. I didn't appreciate how awkward the pregen character sheets were to read until I spoke to some local players about it as they are essentially stat blocks for NPCs and are quite difficult to read for the uninitiated.

It would, of course, be great to hear some more experiences of playing and GMing with Pregens.

4/5

Something to keep in mind is that pregens are teaching opportunities, aside from just teaching you about the classes:

Valeros teaches you how to fight with two weapons.
Harsk teaches you how to fight with a ranged weapon.
Lini teaches you how to use an animal companion.
Seoni, Ezren, Lini and Kyra teach you how to play casters.

But in order to learn these things, new players need to be taught: The GM or an experienced player can point out things like the limitations on full attack actions with Valeros, or cover rules wit Harsk, etc. In fact, the martial pregens cover all the fighting styles. Beyond the basics, concepts like the fact that Valeros can two hand his long sword for extra damage to get through DR are important to teach. You can point out non-obvious uses of spells with the casters, to open new players' eyes to how versatile you need to be in order to use magic successfully.

The pregens aren't going to keep up with optimized builds, but they're generally good enough to succeed. (Harsk is an issue at higher levels.) But that's also a teachable moment: You can explain the different build choices that pregens made compared to optimized PCs at the table and explain why they're not as spectacular.

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