Hello, all. This is my first post here, and I hope that some of you will be willing to give me some input regarding my current Pathfinder character -- Attoraxx, a CN cleric of Rovagug. I've got so many directions I could go with him, and a few I "should" go with (likely) (oh, and note the "bunny ears" everywhere -- I'm not here for #DoingItWrong comments), but this is what it comes down to: I'm pretty uncertain about what course to take.
I've been playing RPGs for running up on 20 years, overall, and the sad fact is that this character is in the longest-running single campaign ever, in terms of level advancement. I've finally gotten third level spells, and I'm at the limit of my previous experience. While I've built characters in AD&D, 3.0, 3.5, 4th, and Pathfinder, mapping them all from 1st to 20th, I've never gotten a chance to PLAY THEM past 5th level. Sure, there have been a few one-shots in the 10th - 16th level bracket, but a single 5-hour-long combat encounter doesn't count for anything, really.
Here's what I've got so far, storywise -- oh, and I don't want ANY spoilers. NONE. -- : town of Sandpoint, fighting against the Thistletop goblin tribe and their allies to a decisive victory, and now embroiled in a murder mystery involving some nasty undead (anybody else hate ghasts??). For the previous 4 levels, Attoraxx was the only caster in the party, and being the self-serving jerk that he is, he leveraged that power to accrue most of the wealth. And in a party with 4 melee tanks and 1 caster, I had plenty of time for him to loot corpses while my "buddies" were mowing down the opposition farther down the hallways (And don't worry, I'll get to some particulars on the other 4 characters in the group in a bit, and *then* provide technical details on Attoraxx himself). Attoraxx has managed to even extort monies from the other players to pay for wands of cure light wounds ("My god doesn't let me do much healing, y'all"), he's been working as the party rogue ("Go grab that table from upstairs and set it over that pressure plate, then we'll all crawl over."), and wound up killing the LG samurai in self defense shortly after the win at Thistletop (and gaining 5th level . . . . y'all can fill in the blanks, just make sure you count about 600 gp worth of onyx and 50 gp of silver dust). I'm playing a character with a hate relationship with the deity of his own struggle with fatalism, who tries to live for the good things in each moment (took a break from a fight to hijack the best cut of meat from a banquet table), and who has a pragmatic approach to the idea of being the last man standing when *everything* falls apart.
And I'm loving every minute of it.
Now, regarding the mechanics: our GM told us to roll 4d6rr1s six times, and arrange as we liked. I mustered out with Str 17, Dex 11, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 16. I thought the party was going to be a bit more diverse than it turned out, and had planned on being a mid-ranker/finisher -- boy, could I not have been more wrong. We had an undead bloodline bloodrager spelleater, a samurai/fighter (for armor training 1), a tower shield/bastard sword sunder tank, and a tanking monk (who, no lie, insisted on spending feats for the +2 save bonuses -- he's kinda new, and didn't realize our ability scores were already past busted). The GM's very apt description of Attoraxx basically summed it up: "Whoo! Go team! Great job killing everything guys! Don't mind me while I scoop all the loot into my backpack, sacks, and pouches!!"
Here's where Attoraxx stands, currently:
Str 17
Dex 12 (+1 at 4th)
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 18 (+2 headband)
Cha 16
HP 40
Feats (in order): Selective Channeling, Channel Smite, Improved Channel, Craft Wondrous Item
Gear: Elven chainmail, greataxe, javelin, morningstar, mwk heavy steel shield, ring of protection +1, Sihedron medallion, wand of CLW (40 charges), various sundries for adventuring, savings in the neighborhood of 800 gp (I hoarded and sold EVERYTHING -- ant haul on a horse-drawn cart from Thistletop to Sandpoint -- we even got the bronze-gold alloy helmet the giant crab was wearing as a shell)
Domains: Destruction, Weather
I know that much of what you see here will get many sets of eyes rolling, ranging from "too overpowered", to "crummy feats and domains, dude", to "how come the whole party didn't kill this guy?!". So, here's my preemptory defense -- 1) I didn't pick the ability score method; 2) I was sold on the idea of a greataxe-wielding cleric that called down the lightning (yes, I like the 8th-level granted Weather domain power) and had a handful of "big gun" attacks per day, hence, Channel Smite; and 3) Everyone has a price, and LG samurai that choose to operate solo (very true to character, good dramatic elements) and roll 4 hours on a Gather Information check to dredge up enough evidence to chase after the suspicious cleric (who skipped lunch for 8 straight days to build the headband and a Str belt for the sunder tank -- remember the mid-fight snack break?) only to kick in the door of an hours-over desecrated animate dead on the bugbear, the wizard girl, her wannabe loverboy, and the fallen aasimar get poleaxed quite handily by failing a hold person save and getting the High Five of Death with a channeled destructive smite on an inflict serious wounds.
Here are a few things I know about, moving forward: I'm going to be taking the two Spell Penetration feats, Spell Focus feats in necromancy, and very likely Skill Focus in Spellcraft (to help deal with the pesky difficulties of crafting items with spells I can't know). I'm not sure about Reach, Extend, Empower, or Maximize spell (though I really like the idea of seeing a big battle coming and taking a day to maximize every variable spell I cast for the following day with incense of meditation). Command Undead makes sense (especially given how badly the sunder tank suffered from those shadows in the dungeon at Thistletop -- and he's Attoraxx's FRIEND), but may be too narrow, and I didn't want this guy to be a Necromonger knock-off at the outset.
And to complicate it all that much further, the samurai player came back as a CN skald (cutting off some of the angles with the looting advantage), and the monk (who multiclassed in shaman) wrote himself out of the story not long after he realized just how big a nerfhammer he had beaten himself with upon taking Vow of Poverty and wasn't qinggong or mystic, but brought back a different monk of the LE variety and splashed warpriest. So now I'm not the only caster, we still don't have a rogue, there's probably ANOTHER in-party showdown coming, I have a squad of loyal bodyguards who mostly stand around because they can't get to the front lines and don't have Precise Shot, and I'm trying to have this character actually make it to the end of the Rise of the Runelords story without wrecking the good thing our playgroup has going.
Thanks for reading, thanks for your input, and thanks for playing the game, all in advance.
So -- what does Attoraxx do next?!
RE: "non-optimized" --
I've looked at some of the optimization guides here and there, and reached the conclusion that many of the "informed" GMs and players would hate to have this character at their table. I threw up the "non-optimized" bit to help wave off the trolls coming in for various landings -- this runway's too short for that nonsense.
RE: average/terrible//concept/numbers
Ummmm . . . . Do you mean it *is* average or terrible, and I just don't know it? I mean, have you looked at those stats??!
No matter what the naysayers may say, I *love* this character, and the build, too. I'll grant that the Improved Channel feat is the "weakest link" in my feat tree so far, just in terms of the applied game mechanics, but maybe some insight will help: what's the easiest way for a channel negative cleric to whip out a LOT of consistent damage in the lower levels? Yeah -- channel. And, being the paranoid feller that he is, Attoraxx wanted to make sure he had a better chance of making that damage stick, just in case his erstwhile "allies" figured doing him in was a good idea. As the story progressed, he realized just how he was outnumbered, and bought a little bit of an insurance policy. Attoraxx has been prepared to take on the whole party since level 2; perhaps not with a real chance of victory, but a fight they'd never forget, and at least one wouldn't walk away from.
Here's more story on Attoraxx:
This is a man who once served in the army, and turned out to be pretty good at it. At some battle or another, he had an epiphany -- the whole world was downward bound, and nothing was ever gonna stop that descent. That realization helped him burn away the chaff of his "noble" ideas and the "good" that he could do with them -- yet he struggled with such a shaking, definitive shift in worldview. And he learned treachery and betrayal in full when he shared his thoughts with his squadmates -- and he's got the scars to show for it. Attoraxx deserted, and sought out the ultimate source of ruin in the world, and swore himself to it -- not to speed it along, but to use it for his own purposes. Somewhere, barely hidden in his heart and mind, Attoraxx wants one thing -- to go toe-to-toe with Rovagug, and WIN. And one of the best ways to do that, so soon after his revelation, is to live long enough to accrue POWER. What does Rovagug care if one of his clerics is aiming all that destruction in particular directions? Why go out of his way to smash one of the bugs he's going to own in the end, anyway? Rovagug wants things wrecked, and Attoraxx will wreck anything that stands in his way -- everybody's "happy".
So I guess I'm hoping that maybe the story and the choices so far will spark some suggestions that fit this theme, in both mechanics and narrative.
And, speaking of mechanics -- I constructed this guy with a mind toward using every single ability he has as often as possible. I want to use them all, even the crummy Storm Burst, to their maximum potential. These abilities may not all be awesome all the time, but they're PACKED with AMAZING -- especially considering the fact that every other OGC character I've *really* played was 3.0/-.5. Doing more things on-theme with a character is nothing but pure upgrade over the days of 3.5. Especially when you don't have to spend feats for it.
Was any of this more helpful?
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Well, I believe simply breaking down what you want your character to be able to do, and what you want to good at, will help.
The game rewards focus, so you should have a few things you would like to focus on.
Be too general, and focus on nothing, and you will suck at everything. So, unless that is the concept, you won't be very happy. Neither will your teammates.
Also, some abilities seem amazing, but suck in real time, suck as the game progresses, or are too specific for a certain circumstance to be useful.
Don't let the word optimization scare you.
You can optimize for flavor, mechanics, or both.
Optimizing for both, I find, to be most rewarding.
This process is known as "Practical Optimization".
Nobody likes the game-breaking mechanically optimized PC, but also, nobody gives a damn about the "wonderful flavor", if you are "The Load" of the team.
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Yeah, optimization isn't an all or nothing gambit. That's why options are listed in different categories instead of take this or don't.
It's fine to take a concept that at base isn't optimal (crossbow users) and do everything you can to bring it up to the standards of an average 'optimized' concept (two hand).
Flavor optimization can be a lot of fun too, since there's a lot of neat things you can do with the rules if you look. All of my guides even suggest playing to the level that your group is comfortable with, since group enjoyment is the true thing you should optimize for.
Asking for advice for a non-optimized character is difficult because there's really nowhere to look. Like really, it's just suggesting weapon focus and toughness since they're okayish options. Sorry if this wasn't a lot of help.
Well, as you can see, Attoraxx is very much a generalist in terms of the mechanics he uses. I don't have a problem with that; this guy has been compelled by circumstance to be various things at various times, and it's a bit like John Hurt's line from V for Vendetta: "I want EVERYONE to remember why . . . they . . . need . . . ME!!!"
So, let's break down the reality of the in-party metagame, and see what we're left with:
1) The Abacus: mechanically optimized LE monk/warpriest AC tanker -- dumped monk flurry for one thing or another, but then picked it right back up with some warpriest archetype mix-and-match stuff; during a fight with a barn full of undead he stood in the doorway and burned ki points to get his AC up to 37 or so, and passed saves against ghast stench forever. I've got no inclination to buff him for any reason, and it's very likely that this is gonna be the one to try to "put me in my place". Turned a whole encounter into a one-man show for about 3 rounds, and wouldn't even make move actions to take advantage of the numerical advantage the party had against the ghoul nest -- searingly annoying. I don't know the range of spellcasting he's looking to get, but I believe he's currently Mnk 4/Wrp 1, and got his flurry from that warpriest level, but the GM is letting it stack with his BAB, which seemed weird to me.
2) The Blender: undead bloodline spelleater bloodrager -- greatsword, power attack, fast healing, fast movement, blah, blah, blah. Who cares about DR issues when we're consistently looking at 22 damage per swing on a 22-to-26 Str Cleave barbarian? Effective, but boring.
3) The Robot -- Power Attack, Cleave, Combat Expertise, Improved Overrun, Bastard Sword Proficiency/Focus/Specialization. Simple and effective. Ditched Sunder since breaking the stuff we want to take is less effective than disarming the bad guys, which is on the docket for next level.
4) The Rockstar: Ragesong Skald -- booster, party face, . . . a bard. And took the prereqs so that once per day he can cast any spell on the bard/cleric/sor-wiz list. Neat trick. Good roleplaying; same guy that immolated his samurai on Attoraxx's drive to endure (partially motivated by reading ALL of the text for the feat Antagonize -- only once per day per target?? "Nevermind.").
5) The Scourge: Attoraxx -- full-time default party healer, incipient skullhorde general, party "secretary" (no one else takes the notes), sole offensive caster, single-target buff caster, . . . I'm the spell specialist, really. I leave slots open to troubleshoot. Could I frontline? Yeah. Could I set flanks? Yeah. Could I retire and make money off CWI? Yeah. Covered, covered, and boring.
Thanks for the feedback; you can stop writing in crayon. Don't take that wrong.
Is it worth the effort to focus on battlefield control spellcasting, with supplemental offensive spells and an ever-improving squad of skeletons?
Ya know . . . .
Maybe this is the better question: given what I've already done with the build, what would *you* do to be ready for a fight against the party or the townsfolk?
"I'm not really bad, I'm just misunderstood; it's not my fault I won't roll over and die to any of you."
Is there a "*best*" progression for universal survivability for a cleric in Attoraxx's position? Since most of what defines my character from this point forward is going to be feat selection, and I only have 7 more slots to fill . . . . 7 minus (Spell Pen + GSP + Spell Focus (necro) + GSFn) leaves 3 feat slots to play around with.
I'm going to be the only 9th-spell-level caster in the party. There's my bag -- done. So what would y'all suggest I do in terms of the order I take the feats, and what 3 other feats would you recommend (and Skill Focus (Spellcraft) is a strong contender for one of those slots -- I like being able to build my own headbands and belts)?
Thanks again!
just a bump, folks. i ran off my past contributors; my apologies to blackbloodtroll and N. Jolly.
Your best defense is a strong relationship with the party. Get them as friends instead of latent enemies, all though that ship may have sailed. Also, the best way to get to the end of any adventure is to avoid over-stressing the GM or annoying the other players. Those are more likely to end a campaign than the trifling matter of your character's death.
Also not seeing anything I'd call non-optimized, outside of the RP choices. Given the channel focus already, Quick Channel seems extra good, get more of your abilities into play every round. Same with Craft Rod for Quicken Rods, if there is enough downtime; I'd see how CWI goes.. Depending on how often you're enlarged, combat reflexes might be nice.
You might be missing options vs undead, so versatile channel or turn/command might handle that. Temporarily controlling undead then putting them down is just tactics, unlikely to provoke PC rage like your animated undead slave army. Then again, might be easier to just melee them and maybe prepare command/halt undead.