The PC’s that a friend plays, tend to be of the boy scout ‘be prepared’ variety.
He almost always buy the Handy Haversack as soon as affordable. Then he stuffs it full of every mundane, special, and minor magical gegaw that seems like it might be useful at some point. His wizard with the 8 strength had the portable ram, and adamantine crow bar, a couple of every alchemical vial, oil of daylight, magic weapon, magic vestments, scrolls of break enchantment, remove curse, restoration, caltrops, keg of black powder, MW manacles, MW thieves tools, MW locks, swarm suit, clearear, potion sponges, potions of everything, cold iron morning star, silver dagger, adamantine arrows, ghost salts, etc… Piles-O-Stuff that he might not necessarily be able to use but someone could.
{ Personally, my characters carry a fair amount of gear, but not like this guy. }
He wants to try and see if he can handle the other end of the spectrum. Carrying the bare essentials. Few questions on how to go about it. Many of us get at least mildly irritated with the fighter type that has decent armor, a mondo weapon, and nearly nothing else. Who just assumes everyone else has nothing better to than take care of him like a personal babysitter. He doesn’t want to become ‘that guy.’
1) He doesn’t want a pure caster, but a caster that also uses a weapon would be fine. Given that in your career you will need to fight a wide variety of foes and help out on investigations? What class/build would do the best job of carrying little gear but still functioning and contributing in most situations? I’m thinking cleric or warpriest, but I’m not sure of that.
2) Yes, everyone should have the weapons (prob ranged and melee) and armor they use, an emergency cure potion, and a wand of CLW or IH. After that, do you expect everyone to have an oil of magic weapon (if they don’t have the spell), at least until they can afford a permanent magic weapon? Should everyone be carrying a potion of lesser restoration? Weapon blanches until they have the special material weapons? What do you consider the minimum gear a person should have in PFS to be considered a good team player?
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1: Sacred Fist Warpriest. You don't need a weapon (other than an AMoF). You don't need armor. You have cleric spells and wand use.
Non-spell option is a Martial Artist Monk. You have the ability of going through [b]all DR and Hardness[/url] at will from level 4. No magic or special materials required.
2: Oil of magic weapon is a nice to have, but not mandatory. Potion of Fly is needed more for melees than the Oil of Magic Weapon. Lesser Restoration isn't mandatory, but nice to have. Potion of See Invisibility is high on the list too. Everyone should have a wand of CLW, even if they can't use it themselves.
I don't believe you mentioned what level or level range we're talking about here. Many of those suggestions are way out of the reach of a 1st-3rd level character.
Class? Sorcerers and, to a lesser extent, wizards (with the eschew materials feat) need very, very little equipment. A monk would need even less. A cleric could get by with one weapon, a set of armor and a holy symbol.
But you said "to be a team player." To me, this suggests that you need some gear to participate when things get rough. Things like:
- a few flasks of oil and/or alchemist's fire for swarms.
- a few doses of weapon blanche for critters with DR.
- a few items to overcome obstacles: rope, spikes, chalk, fishing hook & line, things like that.
- enough food & water to be self-sufficient for a couple of days.
- a backpack to carry that junk in, and maybe a few sacks for the greats mounds of loot you find in PFS scenarios (heh!).
Setting aside my personal distaste for weapon blanche as a concept (pure cheese, pure Paizo. Agh!) it seems like such stuff is almost expected of PFS adventurers.
I kind of admire the player who is obsessed enough to actually list all those rare items of equipment (portable ram, indeed!) and stow it in his bag of holding. Most of my players never think of random minor gear... except for one guy whose characters *always* carry a crowbar.
I was having this conversation on Monday with another player/GM, and he suggested thinking of it by situations.
For weapons, how will you handle the different types of DR: bludgeoning/piercing/slashing, then special materials? (One strategy here is to just do so much damage that you don't care if they have DR.)
What is your strategy for dealing with swarms?
How will you deal with flying foes?
How do you counter invisibility? Handling concealment and mirror image is less critical, but always a good idea.
You need to deal with incorporeal creatures.
You'll need to have some method of recovering from damage. As you level up, you'll need to recover from ability damage and drain.
Less important (unless you're a barbarian) is handling harsh climates that cause fatigue.
One thing I would suggest is that your friend recognize that he might not be useful in all situations. If he runs up against a foe he can't hurt for some reason, how can he still contribute to the party? To me, it's really frustrating to stand around in combat with absolutely nothing to do. I also find it really annoying to have someone else stand around doing nothing while someone else is dying. Tactics like providing flank, aid another, blocking an exit--there's usually some way you help. I've even stood in the back of the party and fished things out of backpacks for the front liners. ("I'm out of spells, but I have two hands and two actions a turn--what do you need?")
Yeah, I didn't think of the sacred fist. That is a good point. Still should probably have a ranged weapon since their spell list doesn't have all that many attack spells. But you will have spells for all the spells for condition removal and special circumstances.
I don't think monk would do enough for him in this case. You cold still be blinded, diseased, poisoned, etc... and so you would still need scrolls or potions for that.
Not looking for 'nice to have' at this time. So you have a weapon (or fists), a ranged option, armor (or other defense), and a wand of CLW (or IH). That is a given. What else is needed to count as a prepared pathfinder? Or would you say it isn't anything specific but maybe your level in quantity of some sort of condition removal and utility items of whatever type?
Didn't specify levels because he wants this approach for the whole PFS career level 1 thru 11. Yes, most things are unaffordable for a 1st level character. But what should he be getting when it is affordable?
We were very specifically not trying to think of it by situations. That is really what has led him to the 'carrying 1-3 of everything' mentality for all his other characters. He can always think of another situation where he should have X.
Yeah, the travelers any tool subs for a bunch of stuff. So I doubt I could get him to part with that. ;)
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Let me try to explain it another way with a negative example of what he doesn't want to become.
There is a guy at our local. His PC is a barbarian/fighter. His equipment list is backpack, waterskin, trail ration, masterwork breast plate, +1 cloak of resistance, +2 belt of strength, +3 adamantine earth breaker. At 9th or 10th level, that is it.
Just recently we finally talked him into a wand of CLW, javelins x2, and a potion of cure moderate wounds. He was pretty pissy about getting even those. Every coin is saved for the next + on his weapon. He has been trying hard to find some way to exchange his prestige for additional coin (and upset that he is not finding it).
He expects someone else to provide anything else that might be needed for mobility, protection, recovery, utility, etc…
We do not really consider him a team player. He is not prepared for anything except ‘Hit it harder!’ Buying the javelins, wand, and potion (while an improvement) still do not make him a prepared pathfinder.
{ Note: He's a halfway decent guy with some 'issues' in his life. We're ok with it. We don't try to run him off, avoid him, belittle him or anything like that. My friend just doesn't want to become another. }
We know there is no hard and fast rule ‘you must have this’ to be acceptable. But we are trying to find that nebulous fuzzy line. Below this you are not prepared. Above this you are prepared.
If you see a 4th level character with X, Y, and Z do you think ‘yeah could be better, but that’s good enough.’
If you see a 7th level guy that doesn’t even have U, V, or W do you think ‘crap, he isn’t even trying.’
I talked with my friend. He liked the idea of the sacred fist war priest.
But he would still like some input on what is the minimum equipment others at the table would expect him to have.
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I kind of admire the player who is obsessed enough to actually list all those rare items of equipment (portable ram, indeed!) and stow it in his bag of holding. Most of my players never think of random minor gear... except for one guy whose characters *always* carry a crowbar.
My characters almost always buy a Handy Haversack relatively soon. Then every scenario I start buy several cheap mundane things that sometimes seem useful.
He on the other hand, buys the Handy Haversack and/or a Bag of Holding as his first significant purchase. Then spends most of his money for the next couple levels buying 1-3 of virtually everything that is under 100 gps. A lot of people really like having him at the table.
He is never quite as powerful in combat. But in PFS that isn't really a problem.
You want a piece of chalk, fishhook, red ink, steel vial, chain, manacles, periscope, chronicle, f#+ of flour, or whatever. He is almost certain to have at least one. If you ask for something inexpensive and he doesn't have it (rare), I can pretty much guarantee, every one of his characters will immediately buy it before the next scenario.
I talked with my friend. He liked the idea of the sacred fist war priest.
But he would still like some input on what is the minimum equipment others at the table would expect him to have.
.
.
...
I kind of admire the player who is obsessed enough to actually list all those rare items of equipment (portable ram, indeed!) and stow it in his bag of holding. Most of my players never think of random minor gear... except for one guy whose characters *always* carry a crowbar.My characters almost always buy a Handy Haversack relatively soon. Then every scenario I start buy several cheap mundane things that sometimes seem useful.
He on the other hand, buys the Handy Haversack and/or a Bag of Holding as his first significant purchase. Then spends most of his money for the next couple levels buying 1-3 of virtually everything that is under 100 gps. A lot of people really like having him at the table.
He is never quite as powerful in combat. But in PFS that isn't really a problem.
You want a piece of chalk, fishhook, red ink, steel vial, chain, manacles, periscope, chronicle, f#& of flour, or whatever. He is almost certain to have at least one. If you ask for something inexpensive and he doesn't have it (rare), I can pretty much guarantee, every one of his characters will immediately buy it before the next scenario.
I have a couple of characters like that. One is a non-casting fighter/blacksmith/engineer, so she has every mundane tool possible. She carries a handy haversack and a bag of holding, and has them filled with useful stuff like a periscope, hand drill, wire saw, climbing kit, block and tackle, crowbar, folding ladder, folding shovel, collapsible trampoline, portable bridge, large tent, even a portable anvil and forging tools. She's not used all of her gear, but she's the kind of character who would carry it. (Next up is the bowling ball to roll along the hallways when we don't have a trapfinder in the party...)
I also have an archer who makes Hawkeye look unprepared, with every trick arrow available. She also loves to play with wands, so she carries a bandolier of them that she uses with UMD. She also has a wide selection of alchemical remedies and magical elixirs to boost skills.
If your friend wants to carry minimum gear but still be flexible, there are some multi-purpose items available. In particular, the traveler's anytool replaces many mundane tools for 250 gp.
Also, if he starts carrying potions, he will still probably want to get a handy haversack down the road, because the haversack lets you draw them without provoking.
Let me try to explain it another way with a negative example of what he doesn't want to become.
There is a guy at our local. His PC is a barbarian/fighter. His equipment list is backpack, waterskin, trail ration, masterwork breast plate, +1 cloak of resistance, +2 belt of strength, +3 adamantine earth breaker. At 9th or 10th level, that is it.
Just recently we finally talked him into a wand of CLW, javelins x2, and a potion of cure moderate wounds. He was pretty pissy about getting even those. Every coin is saved for the next + on his weapon. He has been trying hard to find some way to exchange his prestige for additional coin (and upset that he is not finding it).
Tell him to use his prestige for the lower level stuff: 2 pp for the wand of CLW. 1 pp for a masterwork javelin, 1 pp for a potion of cure mod or lesser restoration, etc.
That way he has some necessary items but still has all his money.
And try to explain to him that +1 damage to his weapon doesn't help him much if he's unconscious or carry 4-6 strength damage.
Let me try to explain it another way with a negative example of what he doesn't want to become.
There is a guy at our local. His PC is a barbarian/fighter. His equipment list is backpack, waterskin, trail ration, masterwork breast plate, +1 cloak of resistance, +2 belt of strength, +3 adamantine earth breaker. At 9th or 10th level, that is it.
Just recently we finally talked him into a wand of CLW, javelins x2, and a potion of cure moderate wounds. He was pretty pissy about getting even those. Every coin is saved for the next + on his weapon. He has been trying hard to find some way to exchange his prestige for additional coin (and upset that he is not finding it).Tell him to use his prestige for the lower level stuff: 2 pp for the wand of CLW. 1 pp for a masterwork javelin, 1 pp for a potion of cure mod or lesser restoration, etc.
That way he has some necessary items but still has all his money.
And try to explain to him that +1 damage to his weapon doesn't help him much if he's unconscious or carry 4-6 strength damage.
We have tried. It just doesn't sink in. He feels his only job is hitting things with a hammer. Everything else is someone else's responsibility.
He saves his prestige incase he needs another raise dead (I believe that character has already died twice). But if he could find a way to exchange it for more coin to buy the next + on his hammer he most assuredly would do so in a heart beat.If I see that he is already sitting at a table and it is rumored to be a tough scenario, then I find some reason to go to a different table or even just go home.