Building a chaotic cleric for a lawful party of casters, looking for tips & advice


Advice


For starters, going a reach/bad touch cleric. Its 25 point buy & I'm a negative energy cleric. Its starting at level 10 (My previous character left the party so I'm switching) and is using a custom made race.

The homebrew aspects of it is that the character has two heads, and as such is worshipping two gods. For flavor one is Nethys and the other is Azathoth (One head is pretty much completely insane).

Race stats open up some options, they get martial weapon proficiency regardless of class, can See in Darkness, and have ability scores of 2/-2/4/0/2/-2

I was looking at taking the madness domain for sure, but I'm unsure on a second domain (Magic looks fun for dispelling punch if I get domain strike). Right now I have my ability scores (with bonuses from leveling and race) as 18/12/18/12/18/7 & I can precraft magic weapons & wonderous items due to working to be the party's crafter.

Are there any tips on what I have so far? Don't want to go 'to' evil since my party is mostly lawful good & has a paladin, new party member is there on recommendation from old.


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You're playing a negative energy caster in a party with a paladin? Well, your character or the paladin will be dead at the end of the first session so why bother?

And considering that most of the party is lawful good, my money is on the paladin.


I only plan to use negative energy in the form of channeling strikes, and negative energy isn't inherently evil. Also the threat the party is facing has global implications and leads to unsavory alliances (Had a lawful evil in the party at one point).

Plus our paladin is so kindhearted he spared a demons life when it asked nicely to be banished back to its realm.


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Antermosiph wrote:

I only plan to use negative energy in the form of channeling strikes, and negative energy isn't inherently evil. Also the threat the party is facing has global implications and leads to unsavory alliances (Had a lawful evil in the party at one point).

Plus our paladin is so kindhearted he spared a demons life when it asked nicely to be banished back to its realm.

1 - Rationalize it how you want, negative energy is the very substance that fuels undeath and is a key power of the clerics of all the gods of evil, a paladin that is okay with it isn't long for being a paladin.

2 - The line that the paladin walks is a narrow. They don't get moral gray areas - it doesn't matter the greater good, paladins don't truck with evil. Period. No gray area.
3 - Your paladin should be an ex-paladin right now. He/she has clearly violated his/her oaths in allowing a being of pure evil to return to a realm of pure evil.

At best, you're looking for a character that will blend in while the other players ignore their character's beliefs in order to metagame their way through. At best, you're looking for a character that will clash with the others.


MeanMutton wrote:
Antermosiph wrote:

I only plan to use negative energy in the form of channeling strikes, and negative energy isn't inherently evil. Also the threat the party is facing has global implications and leads to unsavory alliances (Had a lawful evil in the party at one point).

Plus our paladin is so kindhearted he spared a demons life when it asked nicely to be banished back to its realm.

1 - Rationalize it how you want, negative energy is the very substance that fuels undeath and is a key power of the clerics of all the gods of evil, a paladin that is okay with it isn't long for being a paladin.

2 - The line that the paladin walks is a narrow. They don't get moral gray areas - it doesn't matter the greater good, paladins don't truck with evil. Period. No gray area.
3 - Your paladin should be an ex-paladin right now. He/she has clearly violated his/her oaths in allowing a being of pure evil to return to a realm of pure evil.

At best, you're looking for a character that will blend in while the other players ignore their character's beliefs in order to metagame their way through. At best, you're looking for a character that will clash with the others.

In our setting gods don't have as 'direct' an influence on the world as base pathfinder. In addition most of the strict class rulings are exempt (He's a hybrid of a cleric, a vitalist, a paladin, and something else) and worships a god of mercy. Demons are also capable of being neutral in extreme circumstances in our setting.

But that aside, the character is chaotic/neutral and not chaotic/evil and uses no undead creation abilities. The negative energy stems from the psycho head, while the other head is more level-headed and is the reason it isn't a chaotic evil entity. I'm trying to build the character to being able to kill the enemy, use powers of madness, but not deliberately be completely mindless about destruction. One half is, the other half is guiding that power.

Silver Crusade

MeanMutton wrote:
Antermosiph wrote:

I only plan to use negative energy in the form of channeling strikes, and negative energy isn't inherently evil. Also the threat the party is facing has global implications and leads to unsavory alliances (Had a lawful evil in the party at one point).

Plus our paladin is so kindhearted he spared a demons life when it asked nicely to be banished back to its realm.

1 - Rationalize it how you want, negative energy is the very substance that fuels undeath and is a key power of the clerics of all the gods of evil, a paladin that is okay with it isn't long for being a paladin.

2 - The line that the paladin walks is a narrow. They don't get moral gray areas - it doesn't matter the greater good, paladins don't truck with evil. Period. No gray area.
3 - Your paladin should be an ex-paladin right now. He/she has clearly violated his/her oaths in allowing a being of pure evil to return to a realm of pure evil.

At best, you're looking for a character that will blend in while the other players ignore their character's beliefs in order to metagame their way through. At best, you're looking for a character that will clash with the others.

1-no. Paladins do not have to be murder hobos. Same as with undead, being undead doesn't make you evil (intelligent ones at least) hell there's a mythic class based around being an undead good guy.

2-also no. A paladin (especially one of sarenrea) would indeed offer the devil/demon the chance.

3-wrong he has violated no such thing.

I feel sorry for anyone playing in your games as a paladin as lawful stupid is forced on them.

That being said, I would warn against this idea whole heartedly, it will end in a fight.


rorek55 wrote:

1-no. Paladins do not have to be murder hobos. Same as with undead, being undead doesn't make you evil (intelligent ones at least) hell there's a mythic class based around being an undead good guy.

2-also no. A paladin (especially one of sarenrea) would indeed offer the devil/demon the chance.

3-wrong he has violated no such thing.

I feel sorry for anyone playing in your games as a paladin as lawful stupid is forced on them.

That being said, I would warn against this idea whole heartedly, it will end in a fight.

How so? The character itself isn't inherently evil (Chaotic neutral). He has the goal of gaining power through creation & forging & magical artifacts (Sane head) or through madness, insanity, mindlessness, and The Void (Insane head). They're both the same person but separate at the same time. The paladin is in fact married to someone who relentlessly pursues knowledge as a true neutral, so she may keep him in line.


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Antermosiph wrote:

How so? The character itself isn't inherently evil (Chaotic neutral). He has the goal of gaining power through creation & forging & magical artifacts (Sane head) or through madness, insanity, mindlessness, and The Void (Insane head). They're both the same person but separate at the same time. The paladin is in fact married to someone who relentlessly pursues knowledge as a true neutral, so she may keep him in line.

I'm not trying to judge your roleplaying ideas. I'm sure you have a fully developed story for this guy, and you should absolutely play this character if you want to.

But.... This post raises some big red flags in an RP department for me. You have a chaotic neutral cleric cherry-picking powerful domains (because you worship two different, mutually exclusive gods).

More than that, one of your personalities is motivated by getting or creating magical items. The other personality is motivated by creating chaos and madness. Some people would say your character was designed to to be a ninja-looting troll.

I'm having flashbacks to the last time I played with a Kender rogue who would successfully steal loot from the party, then tell us "You can't be mad. That is metaknowledge. Your characters don't know I stole from you. Plus, my character is a Klepto. I'm just roleplaying."

I think of Pathfinder is a roleplaying game. The objective is to have fun. If your roleplaying is causing someone else to not have fun, you should have an out-of-game conversation to sort out your differences.

In terms of roleplaying, I would severely limit the amount of time that the crazy head is "in control." I would consider limiting the crazy head to just talking, but never acting. You could have some fun, saying some crazy stuff, being mean or sarcastic, but if the madness is never "in control" of physical actions, you are far less likely to come into conflict with the rest of the party.

Silver Crusade

Antermosiph wrote:
rorek55 wrote:

1-no. Paladins do not have to be murder hobos. Same as with undead, being undead doesn't make you evil (intelligent ones at least) hell there's a mythic class based around being an undead good guy.

2-also no. A paladin (especially one of sarenrea) would indeed offer the devil/demon the chance.

3-wrong he has violated no such thing.

I feel sorry for anyone playing in your games as a paladin as lawful stupid is forced on them.

That being said, I would warn against this idea whole heartedly, it will end in a fight.

How so? The character itself isn't inherently evil (Chaotic neutral). He has the goal of gaining power through creation & forging & magical artifacts (Sane head) or through madness, insanity, mindlessness, and The Void (Insane head). They're both the same person but separate at the same time. The paladin is in fact married to someone who relentlessly pursues knowledge as a true neutral, so she may keep him in line.

While I disagreed with the other guy about morality of a paladin, I do agree that if some is using negative energy I as a paladin would be suspicious. If, god forbid you ever summoned dead, stole, murdered you would be on my "why shouldn't I smite you now list"

Silver Crusade

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Point of order:

Paladins aren't absolutist murderhobos. Otherwise redemptive paladins couldn't be a thing.

Negative energy is not evil. This is factual.

This character concept still has some cooked in party cohesion issues though. It's possible to play a negative energy channelling cleric in such a party, but dialing up the crazy along with the Azathoth angle is likely asking for trouble.

Shadow Lodge

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I've played in two campaigns so far that paired CN with LG in amicable and interesting manners. (I've played the LG in both instances - the CN came from different players.)

The most important thing in my experience is for all party members in such a situation to be useful to each other. You do your best for your team. You might be doing so for entirely selfish reasons, but if you make a good team it won't matter too much. Like you said, the big bad is really bad and even paladins are allowed to team up with evil characters in those circumstances. But the party needs to be able to trust you to actually help combat that threat. Pranks might be OK depending on the specific characters but actual sabotage is poison (and can wreck a group faster than alignment disputes). Being the party crafter will help with this.

It helps if the party doesn't have a good alternative to you. There's no LG cleric around to fill your shoes.

It helps if party members are willing to respect each others' boundaries. The Lawful characters are more concerned with upholding their own code of conduct than enforcing their will on others (this works best if the Lawfuls are from a special order or social class that reasonably would hold itself to higher standards than others). The chaotic characters don't try and trick or coerce the lawfuls into breaking their codes, or flaunt behavior the others would find distasteful. You can sometimes push this a bit more after building some trust but that depends on there being genuine goodwill and not just tolerance.

It helps if there exist common values or goals beyond just the main plot.

Naedre wrote:
In terms of roleplaying, I would severely limit the amount of time that the crazy head is "in control." I would consider limiting the crazy head to just talking, but never acting. You could have some fun, saying some crazy stuff, being mean or sarcastic, but if the madness is never "in control" of physical actions, you are far less likely to come into conflict with the rest of the party.

This is also good advice. It's generally more difficult to build sympathy & trust with a character you're portraying as crazy, particularly a more sinister brand of crazy. And if the crazy head sabotages the party it could be quite bad.

You could also make controlling or "curing" the crazy head a major goal of the sane head - which finds its madness dangerous and/or distasteful. That would encourage the other characters to see you as a redemption prospect which might in turn improve their willingness to work with you.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber

negative energy IS basically pure evil in that it is at the best undeath juice. undeath is completely an evil thing in pathfinder's definition of good and evil.


the problem with giving advice on things like this crazy two headed cleric is that everyone has played with that wierd player who is just trying to stick it to the other PCs in either passive aggresive ways, or out and out just trying to f@*~ with people. most people will be hung up because they are painting you with that brush.

now if your doing this in a group of players that you are geniune friends with, even away from the table, and your just looking for a way to have some really fun role playing experiences then I say go for it man! have fun and do whatever your GM will allow you too. especially if its a home brew setting.

Hope you have lots of fun with your crazy medium sized ettin cleric!

Contributor

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"Negative energy is purely for undead juicing."

That's exactly why Pharasma can pass it out to her clerics.

The negative energy channeling is not what makes this character clash with paladins. Negative energy is used to harm the living, but its a tool, just like a sword (obviously not an evil cursed one), it depends on it's wielder and target to determine its moral action. If you're not making and buffing undead, killing babies, or harming the populace for kicks with it, it's not "inherently evil". That's why neutral deities can grant it. Nethys, Gozreh, Pharasma, Abadar, Iori, they're not evil, they don't actively pursue evil intentions (okay, maybe crazy half Nethys does). Hell, Abadar and Iori HAVE PALADINS.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Davic The Grey wrote:

"Negative energy is purely for undead juicing."

That's exactly why Pharasma can pass it out to her clerics.

The negative energy channeling is not what makes this character clash with paladins. Negative energy is used to harm the living, but its a tool, just like a sword (obviously not an evil cursed one), it depends on it's wielder and target to determine its moral action. If you're not making and buffing undead, killing babies, or harming the populace for kicks with it, it's not "inherently evil". That's why neutral deities can grant it. Nethys, Gozreh, Pharasma, Abadar, Iori, they're not evil, they don't actively pursue evil intentions (okay, maybe crazy half Nethys does). Hell, Abadar and Iori HAVE PALADINS.

first, i said "it is at the best undeath juice", not juicing or an action, i mean it kills the living and heals the dead, plain and simple.

when your tool is made out of pure negative energy, it's a bit more evil than a sword... just saying, it's not the kind of thing you just do as a battlefield tactic. for instance, a sword cannot heal undead.


@OP: Contrary to what what impressions you may get from this thread, negative energy is not evil, and channelling negative energy is not evil either.

I don't see why this character would be a problem in your party. What is it you are afraid will happen?

-Nearyn


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
Nearyn wrote:

@OP: Contrary to what what impressions you may get from this thread, negative energy is not evil, and channelling negative energy is not evil either.

I don't see why this character would be a problem in your party. What is it you are afraid will happen?

-Nearyn

considering the only people not allowed to use it are followers of good gods, it definitely is opposed to good.

and in pathfinder good is - repecting life

evil - disrespecting life

undead being part of that direspecting life thing.

Silver Crusade

Thanks for pointing out that some deities whose Clerics channel negative also have Paladins. LG Paladin of Abadar travels with LN Cleric of Abadar who channels negative. Both have very similar belief systems, but the cleric is more on the 'pragmatic'end of things.

Anyone who still believes that Paladins can not tolerate negative energy please contemplate that example.

Silver Crusade

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Also, negative energy is about far more than just being used to animate undead.

In much the same way positive energy is about far more than blowing people up after they've absorbed too much of it.

Positive and negative energies are both parts of a natural cosmic cycle. If you're looking for the evil connected to negative energy, you're looking for perversions of its use.

(and to further cloud the issue, nonevil undead are a thing)

One might as well claim that light = good and darkness = evil.

And if one does, one should be pointed towards shining children, Nurgal, Tsukiyo, and the Black Butterfly.


@Bandw2: If you want to tell your stories that way, you are free to do so. That does not make your statement correct however. In pathfinder good and evil have more extensive descriptions than what you say they do, as you'll find, if you were to read the chapter on alignment in the CRB p.166-168.

In there you'll find that there is a description of alignment and their implication(good characters go moo, evil characters go oink etc), and there you'll find that good implies, among others, respecting life, and evil implies its own things, none of which however, is 'disrespecting life'.

Also - I'm not sure you'll have much luck convincing people who run their games by core, that undeads are part of any 'disrespecting life'-thing.

So, to reiterate, you are perfectly welcome to run your own games this way, but I think (perhaps incorrectly so) that despite this not being the rules board, and therefore not necessarily being a place for the textbook-word -approach, you should ensure that there is clarity between your opinion and the game-system as represented.

If you open your core rulebook to p. 440 you'll find the energy planes described. It goes like this:

CRB p.440 wrote:
Energy Planes: Two energy planes exist—the Positive Energy Plane (from which the animating spark of life hails) and the Negative Energy Plane (from which the sinister taint of undeath hails). Energy from both planes infuses reality, the ebb and flow of this energy running through all creatures to bear them along the journey from birth to death. Clerics utilize power from these planes when they channel energy.

As you can see from the text, the negative energy plane is described with the words "the sinister taint of undeath" - that being a thing that hail from the negative energy plane. You'll also notice that energy from both planes bear a creature from birth to death. What you'll not find is any references to it being evil, or opposed to goodness, morality or the will of good-aligned gods.

Incidentally, I'd still like to know what the OP is afraid is gonna happen if he introduces his planned character.

-Nearyn


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My advice would be don’t do it, though it really depends upon how much your group is prepared to cope with a character which seems to have been deliberately designed to create conflict within the group.

In our group, where everyone GMs from time to time, your character idea would be banned. Not just by the GM but also by the players (some of us would however borrow it for an evil NPC villain).

We take the view that if a character has been designed to cause trouble within the party then the rest of the characters will sooner or later refuse to associate with them. If the player persists in running such a character they will either have to come up with a different character or the player will be kicked out of the campaign.

Inter-party conflict works in a drama, but in a game which is meant to be co-operative to many people it looks like a malicious attempt to make the game less fun for everyone else. Perhaps even to the point where the player is viewed as deliberately trying to destroy the campaign.

Sorry to be so blunt but that’s the way that many groups will react. Our group has thrown out several people over the years because they liked to disrupt the game, or acted like that was what they wanted.

We take the view that if you want inter-party conflict, play Paranoia (“The Computer is Your Friend”).

And to paraphrase “Gamers: Dorkness Rising”, the most common response to “I’m Chaotic Neutral, I’m just playing my alignment” seems to be “No, you are Evil”.


Thanks for all the feedback, I don't intend to actually make it a loot-mongering monster (As the one person commented) but a person who studies magic to create artifacts of power as well as studying those found. In addition I changed the god worshipped to Groetus from Azanoth, a little less evil and a little more 'mad'.

In terms of 'playing my alignment' I wouldn't be directly evil, however when fighting an enemy I'd be less lightly to show mercy when someone attacked, and would be outright disruptive in a fight. (Example: Void domain, part the veil. Smart head would cast something like inflict wounds, then the crazy head would shout 'Open your mind to emptiness!' and cause the part the veil effect.). Imagine the crazy head as more a crazy commentary on everything, and also providing a 'reality check' to when someone in the party says something borderline crazy themselves and it gets all excited about it.

Further example: Last session a neutral psionic got angry and started spewing spewing for the party to spare none of the enemy, at this point the crazy head would exclaim (excitedly) to murder them all while the sane head would critique their warped sense of morality.

On a secondary question: How is the ability score choices and such?


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I second all of this:

Giovanni Henriksen wrote:

My advice would be don’t do it.

We take the view that if a character has been designed to cause trouble within the party then the rest of the characters will sooner or later refuse to associate with them.

it looks like a malicious attempt to make the game less fun for everyone else. Perhaps even to the point where the player is viewed as deliberately trying to destroy the campaign.

CN is already bad. I've almost never seen anyone "roleplay" this alignment without irritating, even angering, most of the other players at the table. And if those other players are not also playing very chaotic characters, their characters very quickly look to replace the CN irritant.

Insane is even worse. Period. Never a good idea for a presumably team-oriented cooperative adventurer. I would never go into a war zone with an insane soldier in my unit, and I would be even less likely to "adventure" with one.

Negative energy is disruptive to groups, particularly to good groups. Period.

Deliberately choosing an alignment opposed to what everyone else has is being a deliberate obstacle to party cohesion. Period. And you know it.

Deliberately choosing a character who will antagonize and outright conflict with a party that you know has a paladin is nothing short of campaign-destroying.

Any one of the above would be a giant red flag for me and for every player I game with. But you didn't pick just one red flag. You picked FIVE red flags.

Worse, your design shows that you are competent with the rules and competent as a roleplayer, which means you know exactly what you are doing but you're doing it anyway.

I question your motives. I strongly doubt that your intentions are conducive to a good gaming experience for your GM and your fellow players.

If I were your GM, I would firmly reject this character and give you a final warning: make a character that fits this group or find another group. Now, if I like you (e.g. if we're friends beyond the gaming table) I might suggest that this might (just might, but probably not) be a cool character concept for a future adventure with different characters (but then again, his "I'm a CN insane crazy irritating jerk" build is probably never good for more than a short one-shot adventure, never a whole campaign).

That said, I just might, maybe, rescind my rejection and allow this character if you present it to every player and ask them how they feel about you running this travesty. If they're ALL good with it, with no objections or reservations, then I'd allow the character.


DM_Blake wrote:
That said, I just might, maybe, rescind my rejection and allow this character if you present it to every player and ask them how they feel about you running this travesty. If they're ALL good with it, with no objections or reservations, then I'd allow the character.

I did get permission from every person but one so far, including the GM. The role of the character 'is' to be chaotic (which I discussed with the DM). My character isn't outwardly evil, he's smart enough to know randomly killing someone pointlessly is a stupid thing to do and would piss off the party. However, he isn't above doing the more cruel acts to fix a problem (Mind reading/controlling someone for information). He also wouldn't care about the semantics of using an unholy weapon to fight a lawful creature that is opposing.

In the setting, there are lawful good/lawful neutral enemies that are being manipulated or controlled. I did in an earlier part of the campaign (levels 3-5) play a lawful evil that butted heads with the paladin often. Primarily my character was there for revenge, and he was introduced in a prison break. Afterwards he left before the paladin could bring it to a fight once the prison break was finished.

In this case, the character 'is' sane, when you consider both. He will purposefully instigate questions of morality, and/or mock a players choices he thinks are either self-depreciating or foolish in the end. He will also possibly collaborate greatly with the psionic in the group who is obsessed with forbidden knowledge (Same goal, different methods). But, in the end he isn't above breaking minds, breaking skulls, and sowing chaos for the express purpose of solving what he either deems a problem or getting what he wants. Especially since his more primal 'desires' or comments are expressed by the insane head despite what he says. For example, "I recommend we go to the artifact rather than defend the city (Yes The artifact! Power, much power! It must be ours, we will use it to crush our foes! Cruuuush!)"

I'm not expecting an easy roleplay, which is precisely why I want to play this character. I get bored with lawful dumb, and the DM knows this by how badly my RPing (And others, as only half the group can RP much at all) tanks when it becomes 'simple'.

My primary questions by bringing the topic up are mostly the optimizations of the character (Feat recommendations, etc). I may have named it incorrectly though x3

EDIT: To add, the double god thing is not for cherry picking domains. Both domains I'm considering using (Void & Madness) are in the one god. However given how similar they are I was considering using Void & Magic or Madness & Magic.

Shadow Lodge

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DM_Blake, it sounds like you have had some pretty bad expereinces.

In my experience CN characters are no more disruptive, on average, than any other alignment.

In my experience alignment differences are not the biggest source of party conflict. The biggest party conflict I've seen in game was about whether a particular reoccurring villain was redeemable or not, and everyone involved in that one was within a step of CG. Tactics and communication have in general been big issues - things like PCs hiding information from each other or taking risky or aggressive actions on their own.

I don't see any reason for negative energy to be a problem unless it endangers the party or unless you decide that in your setting it's inherently evil and a good PC objects (as discussed above esp by Mikaze this is not the game's base assumption). We've got a vampire in the (non-evil) party right now. It's not a problem.

Insane is difficult but not impossible to pull off. I've seen at least one person play a schizophrenic sorcerer in a way that was not at all disruptive. Remember that while serious mental illness can be devastating in real life a player can keep a leash on it in game to make sure it never manifests in ways that are unduly dangerous to the party.

It looks like the OP's group is a little more flexible about morality and the paladin in particular is a merciful sort with common ground with the OP's cleric (as he's married to a TN knowledge seeker), so no "travesty" here.

Antermosiph wrote:
On a secondary question: How is the ability score choices and such?

Charisma looks low if you're planning on actually using your channeling much. When you say you're mostly planning on using it for Channeling Strikes, do you mean Channel Smite? Remember there's still a Charisma-based Will save for half damage, plus Cha adds to your uses per day. I'd either not bother with Channel Smite or lower your Str to buy some extra Cha and take Guided Hand for accuracy. Damage will be a bit lower but that's not as big a deal if you're mostly striking to deliver effects. Unlike Channel Smite, Guided Hand does lock you into your deity's favoured weapon.

If you're looking for more build advice it would be useful to give a few more details. You say you want to use reach - have you chosen a weapon, or is the custom race size large or otherwise capable of getting natural reach? Have you selected any feats? Or are you really in early stages of your build?

Antermosiph wrote:
My primary questions by bringing the topic up are mostly the optimizations of the character (Feat recommendations, etc). I may have named it incorrectly though x3

Yeah, might be a good idea to re-post this thread with more focus on that angle.


Weirdo wrote:
Charisma looks low if you're planning on actually using your channeling much. When you say you're mostly planning on using it for Channeling Strikes, do you mean Channel Smite? Remember there's still a Charisma-based Will save for half damage, plus Cha adds to your uses per day. I'd either not bother with Channel Smite or lower your Str to buy some extra Cha and take...

I didn't think about the CHA, Right now http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=1112389 is what I have (Keep in mind its partially complete and I had reworked the page from something else so some numbers might be wrong).

I still kind of want to go channel smite for the sole ground of it allowing me to use channeling (Can't use it AoE without selective channeling). I've also considered using an alternate channel since my DM said my use of spellstoring & channeling strike on a vicious weapon was a little to much damage compared to rest of the party (Me and the psionic understand the game much better than the other three, so our characters carry every encounter and out of game encounter which makes it hard for the DM to balance).

I was using a Ransuer as my weapon simply because a previous iteration had that as a favored weapon, but since we reworked the race to be less powerful & now have all martial proficiency I may change that. It'd also make me feel like I don't need to cherry pick a reach weapon god so I don't lose a feat.

The race is normal sized, and I could get a +2 cha Ioun stone with a little bit of strength budgeted into CHA.

I (thankfully) don't need to be the party face and really don't need to be the party anything since we've got a good range of classes. I still grab perception because... perception, as well as sense motive since most of the team don't use it. There isn't a crafter yet so went that route.


The BadWrongFun is strong in this thread....

Mikaze said what I was going to say, although considerably more succinctly and with less rage because Mikaze is actually a really nice person and I'm not.

I'll just add that it sounds like DM_Blake has met some awful gamers that don't at all match my experiences.

Most importantly though, Antermosiph, you shouldn't be discouraged by a forum poster telling you you are playing wrong. If you group is on board with your character then that is great and you shouldn't have to 'defend' youself/your character to people like MeanMutton and Bandw2 and DM_Blake and anyone else who posts on this thread.

Shadow Lodge

What's the rest of your party look like? Aside from the race being rather more powerful than usual (and I assume that's not unique to your character) it doesn't look too strong. There's a bit of Nova potential from Spell Storing + Channel Smite but with your current Cha you can channel once per day and pretty much anything will make the save for half. And vicious is a two-edged sword.

I'd watch your Deeper Darkness. Unless other party members can also see in it it'll likely get in their way.

If you can justify it IC, crafting more items for other party members than yourself will help even out the power.


Weirdo wrote:

What's the rest of your party look like? Aside from the race being rather more powerful than usual (and I assume that's not unique to your character) it doesn't look too strong. There's a bit of Nova potential from Spell Storing + Channel Smite but with your current Cha you can channel once per day and pretty much anything will make the save for half. And vicious is a two-edged sword.

I'd watch your Deeper Darkness. Unless other party members can also see in it it'll likely get in their way.

If you can justify it IC, crafting more items for other party members than yourself will help even out the power.

The deeper darkness is for myself, part of the C/N roleplay. In a fight I know enemies can't escape I'd use it and be a one-man army. In addition our paladin is a walking light source so if the party is near them they could see.

Party consists of a fighter on a horse (Trip spam), the paladin/vitalist/cleric, a psion, and a magus

Shadow Lodge

Since you now worship two neutral deities I would replace Channel Smite with Versatile Channel. Being able to use your channel for healing (or hurting undead) might be handy and it certainly contributes to party cohesion. If you do this I would recommend getting at least one extra use of channel, either with a slightly higher Cha or perhaps replace Combat Reflexes with Extra Channel if you are no longer interested in a reach weapon.

Grayflame is an alternative to Channel Smite if you're keen on weaponizing it. It spreads the extra damage out a bit more so your GM's not looking at the tons of dice you could throw down when you Nova, but you don't have to worry about the Will save for half, and you also get a secondary anti-DR effect (which becomes more versatile with Versatile Channel).

I think that about exhausts my ability to comment on your build. You might get more responses if you restart the thread with a better title.

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