The description from Bestiary 2 says:
Quote: Breath Weapon (Su) Although it deals negative energy damage, an umbral dragon's breath weapon does not heal undead creatures. The ecology entry from PF #11, Skeletons of Scarwall, says that undead creatures often seek umbral dragons as mounts, because:
Quote: The wyrms’ ability to heal the dead with their breath and elicit fear from difficult-to-control undead minions—like mohrgs, spectres, and vampires—make them potent allies to would-be generals among the legions of the damned. So ... which is it? I don't like it when the crunch and the fluff disagree with each other.
Crunch wins, because thems the rules.
Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Also I believe Pathfinder #11 was from the 3.5 ruleset. The world (and rules) have changed since then.
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There are at least three reasons the breath weapon does not heal undead:
1. Core book trumps Module/AP.
2. Crunch trumps Fluff.
3. PF rule trumps 3.5e rule (the book is from Aug 2008, predating PF by a full year)
That said, if you run into an Umbral Dragon in that AP, I would say that *that specific* umbral dragon would heal undead with its breath, because the AP is probably designed with that assumption. Maybe it's a feat for them? :)
Yes, that's probably right. The mismatch between the two still bugs me, though.
Its not really a mismatch. The Pathfinder version of monsters are sometimes different than the 3.5 version. IIRC the 3.5 version is a shadow dragon.
Thread Necroing:
Breath Weapon (Su) wrote: Although it deals negative energy damage, an umbral dragon’s breath weapon does not heal undead creatures. Umbral Scion (Ex) wrote: Umbral dragons have negative energy affinity and are immune to energy drain and death effects. Negative Energy Affinity (Ex) wrote: The creature is alive but is healed by negative energy and harmed by positive energy, as if it were an undead creature.
Format: negative energy affinity; Location: Defensive Abilities.
So the umbral dragon breaths negative energy that does not heal undead. But Umbral dragons are alive and healed by negative energy. Does that mean umbral dragons can heal themselves with their breath weapon?
I am aware the intent of negative energy affinity is to threat them like undead creatures...but it ultimately states that the creature is alive despite that, and the breath weapon only states not healing actual undead, rather than saying something like: Although it deals negative energy damage, an Umbral Dragon's breath weapon does not heal creatures that normally get healed by negative energy.
(e.g. other negative energy-based life forms, or something with racial or class ability's like adaptable life force)
I would say they can't heal themselves (or one another) with their breath weapons. Being healed "as if it were an undead creature" should be applied consistently.
Note that negative energy doesn't automatically heal undead creatures - for example, a Cleric's channelled energy either heals or harms, not both. I'd put Umbral breath in the same category.
I understand what you're saying, but my problem with interpretation is mainly with the Breath Weapon text.
"It deals negative energy damage, but does not heal undead creatures."
Which seems to imply that any other creature that has a means of getting healed by negative energy is fair game, and only undead are exempt(plus, technically, things that handle negative energy "as if they were undead").
I'm taking offense, then, at the inclusion of "undead", rather than just stating that the breath cannot heal creatures...
How interesting that you necro'd a thread on umbral dragons....
MordredofFairy wrote: rather than just stating that the breath cannot heal creatures That would look like this:
Quote: Although it deals negative energy damage, an umbral dragon’s breath weapon does not heal creatures. Which reads oddly to me.
Hi Sashin ^_^
Yep, sure enough.
@Matthew: Obviously formulating things is important, but it could definitely be said without "undead".
Such as: "While the Umbral Dragons Breath Weapon deals negative energy damage, creatures affected by it cannot benefit from any positive effects(such as healing) they would normally gain from being affected by negative energy."
As said, what irks me is that all negative-energy based creatures, as written, benefit from healing from its breath weapon, EXCEPT those which are undead or treated as undead.
MordredofFairy wrote: Hi Sashin ^_^
Yep, sure enough.
That couldn't possibly be because you're thinking of drawing some inspiration from your favorite two-headed draconian example of perfection, could it?
Hehe, quite possible.
That, and it would be a much more interesting choice of breath weapon than sonic.
It seems the consensus is it does not work as I hoped, but possibly I could get GM to allow self-healing with breath as compensation for dropping "Create Shadows"(and not taking over the plane with a self-propagating army of doom).
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