First attempt at an Undead Race using the pathfinder system-The Stiched


Homebrew and House Rules

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Liberty's Edge

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there are not that many pathfinder undead player races. we have dhampirs, but they are only half undead. For me, I want to create a undead that does not fall into the general area of skeleton or vampire type. Inspired by Sankarea and some of Tim Burton's more human looking undead(or non-mechanical constructs), I have decided to make an undead in the style of a zombie. This is the Stitched.

Stitched are Undead, born from the bodies of those reanimated while still barely alive(like extremely near death, heading into the light kind of deal). While they are undead, they lack the normal compulsions of zombies to feed on the flesh of the living, and have a vivid lust for life that might be explained as their minds coming so close to death that they learn to enjoy life to the fullest. Despite this, they are still undead, as is defined by the nature of their condition. Stitched are subject to decay, like all undead(save the vampire) and as such slowly begin to fall apart-physically and mentally.

This is extremely distressing, as most that decay too far become insane violent monsters, hell bent on gorging on living flesh, or eventually succumbing to rot and fading from life. To prevent this, all stitched have a compulsion- the need to have at least 2 pints of embalming fluid/preservative poisons daily to prevent the decay. In addition, most stitched will use various materials(including cloth, sawdust, Wood etc to patch up their forms and replace missing limbs(this is not necessary for their survival, but most do it to keep up the image of continued life, and look presentable to other living creatures). Failure to do so will cause symptoms to develop(namely the stiffening of the body, the repressed instinct to feed on living flesh, insanity, the loss of inhibitions). If these symptoms persist for roughly 10 days, the stitched will succumb to the decay, becoming a violent monster under the control of the GM. 2 months later, they will die(if they are not killed already). These symptoms can be stopped with the missing dose of embalming fluid/preservative poison.

Most Stitched tend to live in specially built enclaves outside of cities and towns, or in abandoned, derelict buildings, often with the buildings other residents. Because of their existence, most are refused entry into the majority of temples, inns and other places of the living, though adventures of good repute are allowed in such establishment(normally after a detect alignment spell is cast on them, along with detect intent). Most enclaves are lead by a powerful necromancer, a skilled alchemist or a charismatic individual, who works to protect the enclave and help the stitched find a cure for their condition(namely the preventing of madness and death by the decay, rather than their own undeath). Life within the enclave is a life full of color and excitement, as most try to experience the wide array of sensations life has top offer.


Any stats?

Liberty's Edge

Not yet, though i am working on it. Kind of wondering whether to go with a standard ability score or use a weakness of some kind. How many race points will the dependency add to the race points(because it is kind of a big one)?


Are you aiming for player, monster, NPC or something else?


ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:
Not yet, though i am working on it. Kind of wondering whether to go with a standard ability score or use a weakness of some kind. How many race points will the dependency add to the race points(because it is kind of a big one)?

That depends on the cost/ ease of purchase of the fluid


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Well, lets race build this sucker.

Type: Undead (16RP)

Spoiler:
Undead races are once-living creatures animated by spiritual or supernatural forces. An undead race has the following features.

Undead have no Constitution score. Undead use their Charisma score in place of their Constitution score when calculating hit points, Fortitude saves, and any special ability that relies on Constitution (such as when calculating a breath weapon's DC).
Undead have the darkvision 60 feet racial trait.
Undead are immune to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
Undead are immune to bleed damage, death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.
Undead are not subject to nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain, and are immune to damage to physical ability scores (Constitution, Dexterity, and Strength), as well as to exhaustion and fatigue effects.
Undead are harmed by positive energy and healed by negative energy. An undead creature with the fast healing special quality still benefits from that quality.
Undead are immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
Undead do not risk death from massive damage, but are immediately destroyed when reduced to 0 hit points or fewer.
Undead are not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep, unless they want to gain some beneficial effect from one of these activities. This means that an undead creature can drink potions to benefit from their effects and can sleep in order to regain spells, but neither of these activities is required to survive or stay in good health.


Size: Medium (0RP)
Base Speed: 30' (0RP)
Ability Score Modifiers: Weakness [+2 Str, +2 Cha, -4 Wis] (-1RP)
Languages: Standard (0RP)
(Running total, 15 RP)

Racial Traits:
Unnatural (2RP): -4 on Cha checks vs Animals, +4 Dodge bonus to AC vs Animals, Animals start one step more hostile.
Carrion Sense (1RP): Scent ability, but only works on corpses and badly wounded creatures (25% or fewer HP)

Stitched custom abilities:
- Stitched Restoration: Can use found materials to repair their bodies. Using a sewing needle and thread and suitable materials, Stitched can replace lost limbs and close wounds. It takes 2 minutes of work to restore 1d6 HP. It takes 10 minutes of work to re-attached a severed limb. Double these times if you have only one hand available. You need at least one usable hand to use this ability. You may restore HP up to 3 times per day, and re-attach a limb once per day. (3 RP)

- Mostly Undead: Stitched have a semi-living central nervous system contained within their otherwise undead body. As such, instead of being immune to mind-affecting effects, they gain +4 to saving throws vs such effects. They are also susceptible to being decapitated. A Stitched who has been decapitated must make a DC 20 fortitude save or be instantly destroyed. If it survives, its head must be sewn back on for it to regain control over its body. A coup-de-grace attempt may decapitate in this manner as can a debilitating called shot to the neck. (-4 RP)

- Poison reliance: Stitched must consume or apply poisons or embalming fluids to their bodies to maintain themselves. It requires 2 GP worth of either embalming fluid or a poison that affects a physical ability score per day to maintain their body. Thus, a 10lb container of embalming fluid, costing 50 GP, would sustain a Stitched for 25 days. Since Stitched do not breathe, inhaled poisons cannot be used to sustain them. Contact poison may be applied over their body or ingested while ingested poisons must be ingested to work. Injury poisons must be injected or stitching must be broken to apply it. Breaking stitching to apply poison inflicts 1 HP of damage. If you are at less than 25% HP, you may use existing wounds to apply the poison. Embalming fluid may be applied as a contact poison. Applying a contact poison (including embalming fluid) or damage poisons in such a manner takes 5 minutes and provokes AoO for the entire duration. If the Stitched has only one hand available, double these times. If the Stitched has no hands, it may not apply these substances itself. A stitched may "overload" their body to a certain degree At level 1, a Stitched may dose their body for up to 3 days worth of poison or embalming fluid. Every 2 character levels gives them one additional day of "storage", up to 13 days at level 20. You may apply 5 days worth as a single action (listed above), but every 5 days additional dosage requires a new action.

After 5 days without any type of dosing, make a daily fortitude save (DC 10 + days without dosing). If you succeed, you suffer no ill effects but if you fail, you suffer 1d4 damage and lose 1 max HP. You may choose to restore max HP instead of current HP when using your Stitched Restoration ability. After 10 days without dosing, the damage increases to 1d6 and you lose 1 max HP and 1 Str or Dex (flip a coin). Also, if you fail 3 fort saves in a row, you lose either a hand or a foot. Treat this loss as a debilitating called shot to the hand or foot. After 15 days without dosing, you lose 3 max HP on a failed fort save and lose either an arm or a leg on 5 consecutive fails. After 20 days, you start to suffer mental effects. Once per week, make a Will save (DC 10 + days without dosing). If you fail, you lose 1d4-2 (min 1) of a random mental ability score. After 30 days, you lose 1d4 of a random mental ability score. If your Intelligence drops to 0, you become a mindless undead as your mostly (but not quite) dead central nervous system finally succumbs. You are then treated as a mindless zombie. If your Charisma drops to 0, you are destroyed (just as a living character automatically dies if their Con drops to 0). If your Wisdom drops to 0, you become a ravenous, insane undead creature. You maintain whatever intelligence you had left and further deprivation or consumption of flesh no longer reduces your mental scores.

Alternatively, consuming a medium living creature or equivalent (ie, 2 small creatures, 4 tiny creatures, etc) counts for 5 days worth of "sustenance" and also restores 1d6 HP and half that worth of max HP. If you do this, roll a will save (DC 20 + days without dosing before you ate) and, if you fail, you lose 2 Wisdom. Oozes and other creatures lacking meaty bodies and nervous systems do not count for this purpose. If you consume a mundane animal (ie, not awakened, familiar, magical, etc), you only lose 1 Wisdom on a failed save. Consuming mindless creatures such as vermin does not trigger this will save. The creature(s) must be consumes alive and you must consume at least their brain matter (resulting in certain death of the creature) for this activity to count (you cannot just chew on an arm for a while and call it good). (-5RP)

Total: 13RP

Liberty's Edge

Kazaan wrote:

Well, lets race build this sucker.

Type: Undead (16RP)
** spoiler omitted **
Size: Medium (0RP)
Base Speed: 30' (0RP)
Ability Score Modifiers: Weakness [+2 Str, +2 Cha, -4 Wis] (-1RP)
Languages: Standard (0RP)...

Looks absolutly fantastic, and also could function as a player race that can stand side by side with the party. As for roles, it does support a good number of classes. The nature of the race can lend itself to a number of subtypes(like sensation seeker, venom mouth,Aged chronicler,limber frame etc).


Yeah, just adjust the "dosing" and daily thresholds to taste. I just threw out some numbers that are somewhat balanced but alter them for sustainability to suit your preference. The key factor I used is the fact that it's 5sp for a day's worth of basic rations that weigh 1 lb. Comparatively, a barrel of embalming fluid, weighing 10 lbs, lasts 25 days so that's 0.4lb of "food" per day. Stitched "food" weighs less than half of what basic rations weigh, but is for much more specific "dietary requirements".

Summary:

Trail Rations: 5sp/1 lb/day
Embalming Fluid: 200sp/0.4lb/day (barrel lasts 25 days)
Vial of Arsenic: 200sp/negligible weight/day (vial lasts 60 days).


Lets have some alchemy DCs for fluid. I can see potential as alchemists, Oracles, Barbarians, and Paladins.

Because they are unaffected by Fatigue I can see these guys running as terrifying berserkers only kept sane by the party alchemist. That could lead to interesting roleplaying or these guys dominating, depending on the party.

Their healing might be a bit strong, making a dangerous solo barbarian possible. A party of these guys, dhampairs, and wayangs could be very dangerous if they have a negative channel cleric.


Well, embalming fluid is probably a DC 15. Poisons range from 12 to 26 depending on type.

Liberty's Edge

I also imagine that that could also be used as a weapon. I'm not sure about the effects of embalming fluid on the human body but my assumption is it is not conjunctive to the living.

Liberty's Edge

I would also allow for the consuming of (if not the brain) the vital organs(namely heart) for the flesh eating effect of poison reliance. In addition, allow for assistance to be given by other people using a heal check for reattaching of limbs for Stitched restoration.

As for an additional trait, stitched could possibly have bodies that were more limber(if not as strong) so adding the subtype of 'limber body' changes the bonus to strength into a dexterity bonus instead. Enables for stitched gunslingers and rogues to be more effective. And let's not forget the bards. For when unlife gets you down.


Interesting.

I think that this is looking good. It might be too good for barbarians or paladins. It could probably use it's own unique alchemist archetype, with focus on medic, anatomy, and undead. Can a suitable caster create one of these? Undead control works normally despite mostly undead right? In the current form I think it is slightly too powerful for a player race, but could make a great monster/NPC race.

Liberty's Edge

Goddity wrote:

Lets have some alchemy DCs for fluid. I can see potential as alchemists, Oracles, Barbarians, and Paladins.

Because they are unaffected by Fatigue I can see these guys running as terrifying berserkers only kept sane by the party alchemist. That could lead to interesting roleplaying or these guys dominating, depending on the party.

Their healing might be a bit strong, making a dangerous solo barbarian possible. A party of these guys, dhampairs, and wayangs could be very dangerous if they have a negative channel cleric.

I wonder what would happen if a vampire tried to feed off it. For one, any blood it had is likely very unpalatable, and then there is the embalming fluid, which likely makes up a large percentage of the stitched 'blood stream'. So if the vampire bites it, or a monster tries to eat it while it is storing poison(or embalming fluid), they will be getting a mouthful of unpleasant, likely foul tasting fluid, which will defiantly be a turn off for any would be predator. Hence likely why undead(like zombies) can live in areas with other monsters...the monsters just don't find them appetising, or want to mess with them. This does of course have exceptions(just ask any corpse eating monster).

Also (as a side note), Sankarea's zombies are revived by a specialised alchemical potion, which contains a poison as a critical ingredient. A poison that needs to be topped up in order to slow the rate of decay. This was where the stitched's poison dependency trait originated from, and also where the idea for alchemy being used for a reanimate dead potion(still very hard, given that you are using CHEMICAL means to perform something often reserved for the likes of clerics and necromancers). Thus a stitched might be revived by alchemical experimentation, only to turn toward alchemy to try and find a means to stay undead without becoming a mindless/insane flesh eating creature. If the solution exists, it is likely something difficult to acquire, find, make(so at least 18th to 20th level). Just allowing for the character to be free of that part of their curse when they retire. It might take several lifetimes and generations to perfect the concoction, and even then there might be problems(after all, anyone might try to use undeath as a means to gain immortality, and there are many stitched all seeking a solution to their situation. Not just you.)


ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:
Goddity wrote:

Lets have some alchemy DCs for fluid. I can see potential as alchemists, Oracles, Barbarians, and Paladins.

Because they are unaffected by Fatigue I can see these guys running as terrifying berserkers only kept sane by the party alchemist. That could lead to interesting roleplaying or these guys dominating, depending on the party.

Their healing might be a bit strong, making a dangerous solo barbarian possible. A party of these guys, dhampairs, and wayangs could be very dangerous if they have a negative channel cleric.

I wonder what would happen if a vampire tried to feed off it. For one, any blood it had is likely very unpalatable, and then there is the embalming fluid, which likely makes up a large percentage of the stitched 'blood stream'. So if the vampire bites it, or a monster tries to eat it while it is storing poison(or embalming fluid), they will be getting a mouthful of unpleasant, likely foul tasting fluid, which will defiantly be a turn off for any would be predator. Hence likely why undead(like zombies) can live in areas with other monsters...the monsters just don't find them appetising, or want to mess with them. This does of course have exceptions(just ask any corpse eating monster).

Also (as a side note), Sankarea's zombies are revived by a specialised alchemical potion, which contains a poison as a critical ingredient. A poison that needs to be topped up in order to slow the rate of decay. This was where the stitched's poison dependency trait originated from, and also where the idea for alchemy being used for a reanimate dead potion(still very hard, given that you are using CHEMICAL means to perform something often reserved for the likes of clerics and necromancers). Thus a stitched might be revived by alchemical experimentation, only to turn toward alchemy to try and find a means to stay undead without becoming a mindless/insane flesh eating creature. If the solution exists, it is likely something difficult to acquire, find, make(so at least 18th to 20th...

That bite deterrent probably makes them even tougher. Lots of base animals use bite attacks. You cannot have an absolute cure unless the ingredients are the issue not the research. Otherwise there is no plausible reason for it to not get out. How hard would it be to turn one of these guys into a minion if I had resources to animate them? Are they primarily made with that one zombie maker alchemist archetype from UM? They would make great enemies.

Liberty's Edge

Goddity wrote:

Interesting.

I think that this is looking good. It might be too good for barbarians or paladins. It could probably use it's own unique alchemist archetype, with focus on medic, anatomy, and undead. Can a suitable caster create one of these? Undead control works normally despite mostly undead right? In the current form I think it is slightly too powerful for a player race, but could make a great monster/NPC race.

It might need some limiter like a chance for limbs to be removed in combat more easily, the poison reliance causing their speed to become slow at lower periods within the days without poison(as well as needing more poison for days skipped, as you try to undo the damage that not having the poison has done to you.)

As for the second part... Yes. The general intention was they are created by either use of reanimate dead on a dying person(as in really dying), a special potion designed to reanimate the dead(can be taken in life or fed to the corpse within roughly 1 month of death(changes depending on the condition of the corpse, as well as how it was preserved). Spells can be used, though it really depends on the time from death, the condition of the corpse, and the state of the soul(sometimes it fails because of reincarnation of the spirit,destruction of the soul, or simply unwillingness to return back to the living world). So I imagine this being done by a necromancer(or other resurrectors of the dead) either by semi-accidentally, deliberately in an attempt to keep someone close to them alive, as part of a larger experiment to investigate the nature of death/undeath, or even because of a combination of all these things.

Liberty's Edge

Any cure for this kind of thing is normally experimental, closely guarded knowledge within select, isolated communities. In Sankarea, there is some possibility of a permanent version of the zombie thing, but again it is experimental and also is only known by a single, partially senile old zombie, who is quite clearly on the border of potentially forgetting completely.

Knowledge is a fickle thing, especially if you don't use it. How many times might the permanent cure for the decay been found, only for the person who knew it dying, forgetting, getting the formula wrong or even just not sharing. After maybe hundreds of near successes, it is likely that maybe a permanent solution will be found, but until the players find it, or someone actually writes it down in regular common(instead of encoding it), most stitched will just have to make do with a permanent strength level infusion of embalming fluid(or preservative poison).

Liberty's Edge

As for the bite deterrent thing, it was mostly just thought. If it was a thing, you would need to have stored poison(at least 1 extra charge), and that charge would be burned on the deterrent. And again, that does not always work(take any corpse eating monster. Most might even consider a well preserved corpse a flavoursome delicacy).


That sounds good. I would love to have these guys as minions.

I'm thinking that with current specs they might still be slightly overpowered.

If they need poison that does ability damage, could one play a druid, have a giant centipede and never need to buy embalming fluid again?(Except for the wisdom loss).

There should be a penalty on all social checks because no one will talk to the horrible frankenstein monster. (That might lead to an intimidate buff).

Liberty's Edge

I would also increase the price of their spending on items or staying at inns, or visiting temples/churches. They are undead, and so are lumped in with the likes of zombies, wights,vampires,devourers, lichs, and all the other undead that have plagued the earth. Necromancers often end up with a bad rep for a reason, and there are a lot of people out there that generally take the sometimes wise but always xenophobic policy of "less talky, more taking burny torchy, and pitchforky to the zombie" to undead. The ones that don't do this will often exploit the needs of passive stitched and 'trying to be good' vampires by charging them extra, or forcing them to pay more money to stay in their inns.

This is part of the reason why their enclaves tend to be on the outskirts of most cities. Most want to be able to live their lives not being subject to the social stigma of being undead, and even then you still get the more extremist anti-undead groups raiding these enclaves to 'purge the unclean abominations from their homes' or 'drive the filth from their lands'. These groups I consider personally evil. Even if they worship a good or neutral aligned god, if they willingly massacre unarmed and truly defenceless undead for a supposedly 'true and just cause', they to me are evil.

Liberty's Edge

Goddity wrote:

That sounds good. I would love to have these guys as minions.

I'm thinking that with current specs they might still be slightly overpowered.

If they need poison that does ability damage, could one play a druid, have a giant centipede and never need to buy embalming fluid again?(Except for the wisdom loss).

There should be a penalty on all social checks because no one will talk to the horrible frankenstein monster. (That might lead to an intimidate buff).

For me, this is why I would use preservative poisons(as in the kind that might stop vital functions but leaves the organs and other functions intact for the most part). This is why spider venom and poisons designed to break down the targets body are not viable (It's very hard to be an undead when most of your organs have turned to mush). So a Druid stitched could still use more paralytic or rapid death preservative animal or plant toxins rather than a centipede(since those toxins are designed to make soup out of the muscles and organs for easier absorption).

As for the penalty, I can defiantly see that happening(call it social stigma), with the penalty applied to all first meetings and subsequent encounters with such individuals(unless you use charisma to improve their opinion of you, then they might give you more help and less flak for being an undead).


That makes sense. This is looking good now.

I was actually mentally grouping them with golems over the undead. Its sounds almost like a weaker flesh golem.

What level of create undead would be needed to make on of these? (mostly now i want a high level thinking undead cohort for this one necromancer i've got and this sounds perfect.


Ok, I was thinking of some potentially viable backstory for these guys. I hinted at it a little in my write-up that they have a "semi-living central nervous system". Here's what I've expounded upon since then:

"While sciences in the fantasy setting can be woefully lacking, and magic seemingly works on its own set of physics, there are certain inescapable truths. One of these, is that living bodies don't die all at once. Even as the flesh and organs shut down, the body does all it can to preserve the brain and central nervous system for as long as it can. Often, this can result in a body that, from even detailed observation, appears fully dead, even though there is residual brain activity. If such a "corpse" were subjected to the necromantic magics involved in creating undead, interesting things start to happen. While a living body is unaffected by spells that raise the dead, a dead body with a semi-living CNS can have their body animated and their CNS will only be partially affected (since it is still wired into the rest of the body). The resulting feedback between a personality on the verge of death and the negative energy used to animate the rest of the body results in a precarious balance of the power and resilience of an undead body with the force of personality to control it and resist the creeping effects that negative energy have on the psyche. These creatures, invariably, must have reasonably strong personalities as such people are the only ones who properly survive the transformation. In most cases, the process of zombifying the body merely destroys what is left of the mind right away; only someone with a strong charisma can have their mind survive the process. Of course, the constant strain to maintain sanity leaves little willpower for other purposes. Furthermore, since the mind is partially alive, it doesn't enjoy the immunity from mental effects that most undead have (for better or for worse)."

I like the changes to the poison requirements; it does make more sense to only use non-degrading poisons. So, a list of only plant-based, mineral, paralytic poisons, and non-venom animal-based (essentially, removing all venoms):

Arsenic (ingest)
Belladonna (ingest)
Black Lotus Extract (contact)
Bloodroot (injury)
Blue Whinnis (injury)
Dark Reaver Powder (ingested)
Deathblade? (injury) [Not sure about this one. Couldn't find any info on what kind of poison it is]
Dragon Bile (contact)
Green Prismatic Poison (spell) [Maybe additional effects since it is magical in nature?]
Hemlock (ingested)
King's Sleep? (ingested) [Unsure on this one as well]
Lich Dust (ingested) [Maybe additional effects since it's presumably infused with negative energy?]
Malyass Root Paste (contact)
Nitharit (contact)
Oil of Taggit (ingested)
Sassone leaf residue (contact)
Shadow Essense (injury) [see Lich Dust note]
Tears of Death (contact)
Terinav Root (contact)
Wolfsbane (ingested)

Liberty's Edge

Goddity wrote:

That makes sense. This is looking good now.

I was actually mentally grouping them with golems over the undead. Its sounds almost like a weaker flesh golem.

What level of create undead would be needed to make on of these? (mostly now i want a high level thinking undead cohort for this one necromancer i've got and this sounds perfect.

To me it might be 'create undead' at lower levels(11th+) or 'animate dead' with the right conditions for the body. For most part, the stitched are brought back in relatively good condition(in comparison to most undead) and are still very fresh. With 'animate dead', it would need to be almost immediate, or the body was very, very well preserved, and even then it's requires a 19-20 confirmed crit on the roll.

As for the create undead, the general rule is the better the condition of the body, the easier it is going to be for the necromancer(so if the body is a broken, battered, twisted mess of flesh and bone-the necromancer might need to fix up the body before it can become a viable target for 'create undead' in that way). The important thing is that they will still retain their faculties for the most part. Some will be retaining their memories of their past life, and so the necromancer might need to think of a way to convince them to work for him.

Stitched have some merit for a necromancer, since it give him some more competent, less mindless help, and even those without their memories will still retain any instincts and can be trained to fight(unlike ghouls for the most part), so most are used as house servents or to support the other guards of the necromancer. A simple way a necromancer can get the stitched to work for them is "if you help/serve me, I might be able to free you from the fate of becoming a mindless undead or going insane." It might be a lie, it might be the truth but it is highly likely that those stitched will defend their potential hope with their lives.

Liberty's Edge

Kazaan wrote:

Ok, I was thinking of some potentially viable backstory for these guys. I hinted at it a little in my write-up that they have a "semi-living central nervous system". Here's what I've expounded upon since then:

"While sciences in the fantasy setting can be woefully lacking, and magic seemingly works on its own set of physics, there are certain inescapable truths. One of these, is that living bodies don't die all at once. Even as the flesh and organs shut down, the body does all it can to preserve the brain and central nervous system for as long as it can. Often, this can result in a body that, from even detailed observation, appears fully dead, even though there is residual brain activity. If such a "corpse" were subjected to the necromantic magics involved in creating undead, interesting things start to happen. While a living body is unaffected by spells that raise the dead, a dead body with a semi-living CNS can have their body animated and their CNS will only be partially affected (since it is still wired into the rest of the body). The resulting feedback between a personality on the verge of death and the negative energy used to animate the rest of the body results in a precarious balance of the power and resilience of an undead body with the force of personality to control it and resist the creeping effects that negative energy have on the psyche. These creatures, invariably, must have reasonably strong personalities as such people are the only ones who properly survive the transformation. In most cases, the process of zombifying the body merely destroys what is left of the mind right away; only someone with a strong charisma can have their mind survive the process. Of course, the constant strain to maintain sanity leaves little willpower for other purposes. Furthermore, since the mind is partially alive, it doesn't enjoy the immunity from mental effects that most undead have (for better or for worse)."

I like the changes to the poison requirements; it does make more sense to only use...

Makes a lot of sense, though I also would be fine with embalming fluid being used to preserve the body(since that is kind of the point of embalming fluid). Alchemy is a marvellous thing since most of it is synthesising spells from ingredients and then putting them in a bottle(so it would not be completely impossible to assume that there is bottled undeath out there).

Preparation is everything when it comes to undeath. A well preserved body is going to be much more able to recover its faculties than a body that has been exposed to several years of decay. Also vampirism(the other form of undeath) has the distinctive aspect of being more like living being afflicted with a disease/curse than a corpse raised from the earth, normally this is because those turned into vampires are still alive at the time of their death(or at least revived a short while after death using the vampires infected blood). These differ from the stitched, but it shows there is more than one type of undeath that creatures are subject to. Ghosts, shadows, zombies, wights all are undead, but all are very distinctly different(though ghosts and shadows are kind of cheating since they are incorporeal and so do not have a physical body).


How hard would it be to hide? Could they use the stitches to literally change their appearance by scavenging someones face?

We could have a cool villain or ally one of these, who is the king and has been for 1000 years because he changes his face and claims to be the prince. The evil count gets him by denying him embalming fluid and his goal as king is too make alchemists find out how to remove his dependancy.

Liberty's Edge

Goddity wrote:

How hard would it be to hide? Could they use the stitches to literally change their appearance by scavenging someones face?

We could have a cool villain or ally one of these, who is the king and has been for 1000 years because he changes his face and claims to be the prince. The evil count gets him by denying him embalming fluid and his goal as king is too make alchemists find out how to remove his dependancy.

How hard it is to hide is dependable, given that dead bodies normally have a paler complexion than humans, and the eyes tend to duller. It is possible with careful planning, the right materials, and a good level of bluffing, you could do that, though certain features will give the game away (like the colour of their eyes, the shape of certain features etc).


(Posting from my phone, gonna have typos)

I pretty much love the flavor for this race, the idea of this vibrant community of thrill seekers is unique take on undead. If your concerned about their power, have you considered using the Half Undead type?

Half-Undead (5 RP)

Half-undead races are strange or unholyfusions of the

living and the undead. Players interested in playinga half-undead race might also considerthe dhampir, the progeny ofa vampire and a human.

A half-undead race has the following features:

Half-undead have the darkvision 60 feet racial trait.
Half-undead gaina +2 racial bonus on saving throws against disease and mind-affecting effects. Half-undead take no penalties from energy-drainingeffects,though they can stillbe killediftheyaccrue more negative levels than they have Hit Dice. After 24 hours, any negative levels they've gained areremoved without any additional saving throws. Half-undead creatures are harmed by positive energy and healed by negative energy. A half-undead creature with the fast healing special qualitystill benefits fromthatquality.

Liberty's Edge

ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:
Goddity wrote:

How hard would it be to hide? Could they use the stitches to literally change their appearance by scavenging someones face?

We could have a cool villain or ally one of these, who is the king and has been for 1000 years because he changes his face and claims to be the prince. The evil count gets him by denying him embalming fluid and his goal as king is too make alchemists find out how to remove his dependency.

How hard it is to hide is dependable, given that dead bodies normally have a paler complexion than humans, and the eyes tend to duller. It is possible with careful planning, the right materials, and a good level of bluffing, you could do that, though certain features will give the game away (like the colour of their eyes, the shape of certain features etc).

Unless the count already knew that the king was a stitched, maybe because he HELPED him become an undead. Using the kings desire to continue ruling to gain political power, the count grants him access to the resources needed to maintain his ruse of life and the passing of his power down the line, in exchange for power and influence within the court. Now trying to gain more direct power over the court, the count withdraws the life preserving fluids he needs unless he give the count what he desires. Knowing that the count is unlikely to provide him with the enbalming fluids even if he submits to the counts will, the king makes it his mission to uncover the secrets behind his condition and a means to escape his dependancy. Of course he will need help from the likes of alchemists and masters of the occult, so he starts recruiting these people in secret, behind the counts back.


I had looked at half-undead, but what I didn't like about it was that, if humanoid, you must choose a humanoid subtype to be the "other half" to go along with it. That kind of shoehorns you into being a Humanoid(Human/Half-Undead) or whatever other race you decide to go on. For this particular concept, I think it'sbetter to go with generalized race where it doesn't really matter what they were originally.

Liberty's Edge

Kazaan wrote:
I had looked at half-undead, but what I didn't like about it was that, if humanoid, you must choose a humanoid subtype to be the "other half" to go along with it. That kind of shoehorns you into being a Humanoid(Human/Half-Undead) or whatever other race you decide to go on. For this particular concept, I think it'sbetter to go with generalized race where it doesn't really matter what they were originally.

Especially since there are plenty of twisted necromancers that love to add parts to their creations, and stitched sometime don't have normal human/humanoid skins (sometimes they use a variety of materials including cloth, leather, beast pelts, animal hides and even metal weave from time to time). Undead can include everything from atomies to the terrifying dracolich(lich that is also a dragon). The possibilities are almost endless(i'm still not sure how you could make an undead construct).


ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:
(i'm still not sure how you could make an undead construct).

It wouldn't be a full construct per se, but wouldn't a partial undead/construct basically just be an undead that has some kind of construct piece attached to it? Be it an animated metal arm or mechanical leg or something?

Liberty's Edge

zadda2597 wrote:
ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:
(i'm still not sure how you could make an undead construct).
It wouldn't be a full construct per se, but wouldn't a partial undead/construct basically just be an undead that has some kind of construct piece attached to it? Be it an animated metal arm or mechanical leg or something?

I already understood that part. It was a minor joke in that most constructs are robots, and most zombie robots...are still robots(just malfunctioning). A definate A for effort though.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It's not a race because they are constructs, not beings that propagate themselves.


Lets see some concepts and stats for variants designed with specific bits of races to complete specific functions.

How about a small fast variant, with alchemy knowledge "programmed in", to scout and sneak and sabotage for the right kinds of armies? Probably goblin + gnome + human + elf at least. The STR bonus would go to DEX, they would be small, have a natural + 1 alchemy, because they are going on long missions, they could last 15 days without fluid but automatically fail saves related to that, and maybe blow up on death and gain fire resist? They would be harder to make though.

Any other ideas?

Liberty's Edge

Perhaps, if we are talking enemies, some that have gone insane. Being insane, they more or less feed predominantly on living flesh to stave off their decay. Because they retain their intelligence, they use the various strengths their body posseses to stalk and kill their prey. useful to necromancers in hunting down enemies, while also getting some use out his now ravenous creations.

Another varient might be an enhanced(advanced) varient with a lot of bonuses(specially and lovingly crafted for such purpose), but needing even more of the enbalming fluid to sustain their form for the same period of time as a lesser one(given the bodies rapid usage of the fluids to sustain its enhanced form). A masterpiece of undead crafting, but also a candle that burns from both ends. 'it does not last the night, but oh my freinds and oh my foes, It give a lovely light'(Roald Daul). as such it is even more dependent on enbalming fluid as if it only gets the regular amount(regular for most Stitchling) it loses ALL its bonuses completely(save for regular) for the time taken to get at least 2 times its normal dosage(2 a day for regular stitchling, 5 a day for the enhanced version).

The Cool thing about stitchlings is they are so diverse, from 'Bone-heads'(stitchlings with a very skeletal bend), to Venom Maws(stitchling venom based biters), to the twisted forms of the Crosshatched(stitched made from the combining of various beast and human parts to create a undead collagee), they are all very distinct and all going through their own personal struggles.


Mayhaps they should have a racial feat allowing them to adopt some of the abilities of creatures they scavenge from. It could even be a line of feats allowing them to change size, at higher levels.

Liberty's Edge

Goddity wrote:
Mayhaps they should have a racial feat allowing them to adopt some of the abilities of creatures they scavenge from. It could even be a line of feats allowing them to change size, at higher levels.

Definitely a good idea, because a stitched is very unlikely to simply leave good parts to go to waste as food for vermin. Maybe the a feat that enable the harvesting of physical creature parts to gain their traits(including toxic, breath weapon, claws, natural armor, even adding additional material to increase the size to large etc.), with the cost of using of more embalming fluid(representing the added difficulties in maintaining more than the limited spectrum of parts).

Eventually they might gain an additional feat that enables them to use the traits for half the fluid cost, and eventually(around 18-20th) a feat to forgo the need for additional embalming fluid entirely(with the minor exception of the large body, since the fluid still has to cover a larger area).

Perhaps allow for them to scavenge one physical trait from the creature at first, then gain the ability to harvest 2-3 traits. The test to harvest traits requires a heal, survival, Knowledge (nature), or Dungeoneering check(representing the characters skill and understanding with extracting the relevant parts without destroying them). Have the trait be something directly linked to the creatures physical abilities(like removing a dragons elemental breath weapon apperatus, a venomous creatures venom sac, a creature with natural armours skin, fangs or claws from creatures with them etc).

What traits you allow them to have is up to you, but remember the wings of a giant dragon are still sized for the dragon, so bare that in mind before the character tries to use them. Maybe they might need to borrow some size and strength before they can even use them. either that or go for smaller wings instead.

Liberty's Edge

ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:
Goddity wrote:
Mayhaps they should have a racial feat allowing them to adopt some of the abilities of creatures they scavenge from. It could even be a line of feats allowing them to change size, at higher levels.

Definitely a good idea, because a stitched is very unlikely to simply leave good parts to go to waste as food for vermin. Maybe the a feat that enable the harvesting of physical creature parts to gain their traits(including toxic, breath weapon, claws, natural armor, even adding additional material to increase the size to large etc.), with the cost of using of more embalming fluid(representing the added difficulties in maintaining more than the limited spectrum of parts).

Eventually they might gain an additional feat that enables them to use the traits for half the fluid cost, and eventually(around 18-20th) a feat to forgo the need for additional embalming fluid entirely(with the minor exception of the large body, since the fluid still has to cover a larger area).

Perhaps allow for them to scavenge one physical trait from the creature at first, then gain the ability to harvest 2-3 traits. The test to harvest traits requires a heal, survival, Knowledge (nature), or Dungeoneering check(representing the characters skill and understanding with extracting the relevant parts without destroying them). Have the trait be something directly linked to the creatures physical abilities(like removing a dragons elemental breath weapon apperatus, a venomous creatures venom sac, a creature with natural armours skin, fangs or claws from creatures with them etc).

What traits you allow them to have is up to you, but remember the wings of a giant dragon are still sized for the dragon, so bare that in mind before the character tries to use them. Maybe they might need to borrow some size and strength before they can even use them. either that or go for smaller wings instead.

I Also would not mind the players being to install equipment into their bodies, with successes in the right skills. Installing a thread reel and sewing needle is more than likely gong to help with making their lives easier, especially if they start loosing limbs or need to sew up allies or themselves after a battle.


ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:
Goddity wrote:
Mayhaps they should have a racial feat allowing them to adopt some of the abilities of creatures they scavenge from. It could even be a line of feats allowing them to change size, at higher levels.

Definitely a good idea, because a stitched is very unlikely to simply leave good parts to go to waste as food for vermin. Maybe the a feat that enable the harvesting of physical creature parts to gain their traits(including toxic, breath weapon, claws, natural armor, even adding additional material to increase the size to large etc.), with the cost of using of more embalming fluid(representing the added difficulties in maintaining more than the limited spectrum of parts).

Eventually they might gain an additional feat that enables them to use the traits for half the fluid cost, and eventually(around 18-20th) a feat to forgo the need for additional embalming fluid entirely(with the minor exception of the large body, since the fluid still has to cover a larger area).

Perhaps allow for them to scavenge one physical trait from the creature at first, then gain the ability to harvest 2-3 traits. The test to harvest traits requires a heal, survival, Knowledge (nature), or Dungeoneering check(representing the characters skill and understanding with extracting the relevant parts without destroying them). Have the trait be something directly linked to the creatures physical abilities(like removing a dragons elemental breath weapon apperatus, a venomous creatures venom sac, a creature with natural armours skin, fangs or claws from creatures with them etc).

What traits you allow them to have is up to you, but remember the wings of a giant dragon are still sized for the dragon, so bare that in mind before the character tries to use them. Maybe they might need to borrow some size and strength before they can even use them. either that or go for smaller wings instead.

Sounds good. The corpses would have to be in relatively good condition for this. They should also be able to shed material and become small or tiny. Wings would require magical assistance to fly, because most flying creatures bones are hollow and they are otherwise lighter. (Dragons use magic assistance in my games). As such wings would be an awesome decoration but not much use.

There would be limits on the amount of things they could have at one time, 1 set of eyes, 1 set of ears, 1 set of claws, and so on. This could make an awesome recurring villain, because it gives a viable reason for him/her to be stronger every time they meet (and if they leave a trail of desecrated bodies, well... thats a reason for them to be a villain).

Stealing senses could be fun. With regeneration this could be dangerous (Dark vision of the party dwarf, then regen), but not too bad (unless the entire party is made of these guys).

Surgery is defiantly worth temporary ability damage.

Could you use an orcs muscle to get stronger? At maybe a DEX loss because of nerve problems? Or are we just talking specific abilities?

This could lead to a part black market for body parts. That could make an awesome premise. The stitched are racing for the body of a god! What would even happen if you used the body of a fallen god?

Another premise - Someone or something is going to make a giant one of these, (Like 100-200 Ft tall) and is going to start a war to get the parts it needs to do it.

I was wondering about these guys and healing. They may be undead, but it almost makes sense for positive energy to heal them, if you get what I mean.


ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:
ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:
Goddity wrote:
Mayhaps they should have a racial feat allowing them to adopt some of the abilities of creatures they scavenge from. It could even be a line of feats allowing them to change size, at higher levels.

Definitely a good idea, because a stitched is very unlikely to simply leave good parts to go to waste as food for vermin. Maybe the a feat that enable the harvesting of physical creature parts to gain their traits(including toxic, breath weapon, claws, natural armor, even adding additional material to increase the size to large etc.), with the cost of using of more embalming fluid(representing the added difficulties in maintaining more than the limited spectrum of parts).

Eventually they might gain an additional feat that enables them to use the traits for half the fluid cost, and eventually(around 18-20th) a feat to forgo the need for additional embalming fluid entirely(with the minor exception of the large body, since the fluid still has to cover a larger area).

Perhaps allow for them to scavenge one physical trait from the creature at first, then gain the ability to harvest 2-3 traits. The test to harvest traits requires a heal, survival, Knowledge (nature), or Dungeoneering check(representing the characters skill and understanding with extracting the relevant parts without destroying them). Have the trait be something directly linked to the creatures physical abilities(like removing a dragons elemental breath weapon apperatus, a venomous creatures venom sac, a creature with natural armours skin, fangs or claws from creatures with them etc).

What traits you allow them to have is up to you, but remember the wings of a giant dragon are still sized for the dragon, so bare that in mind before the character tries to use them. Maybe they might need to borrow some size and strength before they can even use them. either that or go for smaller wings instead.

I Also would not mind the players being to install equipment into their...

Could it build a wand into its arm for a spell like ability? or maybe gain a new magic slot for anything that will fit - Inside the body. Would require a few days of surgery though.

How hard would it be to get and control extra arms? Or legs? Or even a head?


Some more ideas:

A built in crossbow!

Using someones brain for memories/intelligence!

Whenever they take too much damage (Critical hit or over 1/3 hp) they lose a random limb because stitches aren't as good as natural attachments.

A spell to wreck these guys that targets and destroys the stitches and bindings that keep these guys together. (For a high level necromancer to discipline with)

The more I think about it the better these guys get. The concept is amazing.


You know for some unique variant inspiration for the stitched i would recommend looking at the art from magic thw gathering's skaabs they're a creature type that is literally what you wanted this race to be. Zombies that are stitched together and animated by morbid alchemists. Very western gothic horror styling.


Also the idea of a stitched harvesting body parts...Stitched archetype??? Probably something like a racial alchemists like The Harvested or something.


Actually I had been thinking about doing a race based on Frankenstein's monster called the Stitched but great minds think alike. I need to think of a new name now :P

I really do like this a lot. Really good full undead race.I am kinda a horror aficionado and I was going to try to do a couple races based on classic movie monsters.


zadda2597 wrote:
Also the idea of a stitched harvesting body parts...Stitched archetype??? Probably something like a racial alchemists like The Harvested or something.

Naah. Not an archetype but a feat line anyone can take so the necromancer can edit them without the stitched needing additional training, or a doctor can fix them. There could be an stitched alchemist archetype built around this, but it would be the only way to acquire the ability.

To me they seem kind of like the Krillitanes from doctor who, taking the best bits of whatever they fight.

Liberty's Edge

Goddity wrote:
zadda2597 wrote:
Also the idea of a stitched harvesting body parts...Stitched archetype??? Probably something like a racial alchemists like The Harvested or something.

Naah. Not an archetype but a feat line anyone can take so the necromancer can edit them without the stitched needing additional training, or a doctor can fix them. There could be an stitched alchemist archetype built around this, but it would be the only way to acquire the ability.

To me they seem kind of like the Krillitanes from doctor who, taking the best bits of whatever they fight.

Of course, Not every stitched is going to be like that, it makes sense for a race of sensation seekers to have some individuals and scientist type turning to self modification using their enemies bodies. Some treat each modification as a trophy of some kind, scavenged only from the toughest, or most noteworthy foes.

They are cursed with a dependency, but that often leads to the enclaves being something of a constant wild party/celebration. They know their days might be numbered, so they enjoy each day as if it were their last. My intention was that Bards would be one of the things they might be good at, given their long lifespans(provided they managed to get enough embalming fluid) and their desire to seek out sensations of every kind, the Life of a traveling bard is perfect for them.

That being said, i don't at all mind the idea of a Stitched barbarian. The whole going out in a blaze of glory thing is still there for some, especially those who know they might go insane soon(in a sort of "Die A hero, since I don't want to become a monster" kind of way.) Oracles make sense since most organised religions have a very strict "purge the undead" mentality at times, and as such oracles are the main way that divine theology ever reach the ears of the stitched. Paladins make some sense though it depends on the source(most stitched paladins follow the teachings of stitched oracles rather than clerics), plus being a paladin has the benefit of being more accepted by the city as a whole. A lot of classes might lend themselves thematically to the stitched except for a few...

Clerics-Most organised religions are quite anti undead, though it does ultimatly depend on what branch of the gods faith you follow.
Monks-Stitched are thrill seekers and have a dependancy, so i don't see stitched ever being in a state of mind conjunctive to Peaceful,calm, meditation(especially since the last time a stitched tried to beat the dependancy with sheer will power, he rotted away but did not turn.) Brawlers on the other hand i can definally see(after all, bare knuckle boxing and martial arts that are not heavily meditative are still thrills to seek, especially since enclave matches end up being more like gladiatorial sports, focusing on dismembering your opponent until they cannot fight anymore, or they surrender).
Inquisitors-Organised religion is generally perilous for stitched, so an agent of a organised religion is even more perilous.Though i will give it a pass if it is either a religion that is conjunctive to the undead, or the 'organisation' is more the faith in accordance to a stitched oracle.
Warpriest-Same as above.

Other than that, most other roles(like rogue, cavalier, ninja, fighter, witch, wizard, gunslinger etc) could fall into the various archetypes(such as dexterity based instead of strength based, variants with a bonus to intelligence etc)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The other problem I have is that whenever someone says undead and stiched in the same paragraph, my mind goes back to Duskwood.

Liberty's Edge

Goddity wrote:
ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:
Goddity wrote:
Mayhaps they should have a racial feat allowing them to adopt some of the abilities of creatures they scavenge from. It could even be a line of feats allowing them to change size, at higher levels.

Definitely a good idea, because a stitched is very unlikely to simply leave good parts to go to waste as food for vermin. Maybe the a feat that enable the harvesting of physical creature parts to gain their traits(including toxic, breath weapon, claws, natural armor, even adding additional material to increase the size to large etc.), with the cost of using of more embalming fluid(representing the added difficulties in maintaining more than the limited spectrum of parts).

Eventually they might gain an additional feat that enables them to use the traits for half the fluid cost, and eventually(around 18-20th) a feat to forgo the need for additional embalming fluid entirely(with the minor exception of the large body, since the fluid still has to cover a larger area).

Perhaps allow for them to scavenge one physical trait from the creature at first, then gain the ability to harvest 2-3 traits. The test to harvest traits requires a heal, survival, Knowledge (nature), or Dungeoneering check(representing the characters skill and understanding with extracting the relevant parts without destroying them). Have the trait be something directly linked to the creatures physical abilities(like removing a dragons elemental breath weapon apperatus, a venomous creatures venom sac, a creature with natural armours skin, fangs or claws from creatures with them etc).

What traits you allow them to have is up to you, but remember the wings of a giant dragon are still sized for the dragon, so bare that in mind before the character tries to use them. Maybe they might need to borrow some size and strength before they can even use them. either that or go for smaller wings instead.

Sounds good. The corpses would have to be in relatively good condition for...

I understand where you are coming from with this, and somethings i definitely agree with. Altering a stitched with surgery will almost certainly lead to temporary ability loss(since you need to adjust to having these new things as a part of you), and you might either need magical asistance to fly with wings unless you go through drastic surgery(leading to perminant ability damage) to alter you body to the point of allowing flight.

Changing size requires quite a bit of surgery when it comes to radically increasing size(like dropping to tiny or going up to gigantic) and this will also have a drasic effect on the amount of fluid you use daily(larger bodies require more fluid to sustain them, while the tiny body requires very little in the way of fluid to sustain itself). A limit to certain type of things would be important, given that you might only be able to effectivly use certain types of vision, or senses. Healing with positive energy might help counteract a limiting of the uses for stitched reconstruction(since it was kind of there to suppliment the fact that negative energy dealt damage to them.)

Liberty's Edge

ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:
Goddity wrote:
ErisAcolyte-Chaos jester wrote:
Goddity wrote:
Mayhaps they should have a racial feat allowing them to adopt some of the abilities of creatures they scavenge from. It could even be a line of feats allowing them to change size, at higher levels.

Definitely a good idea, because a stitched is very unlikely to simply leave good parts to go to waste as food for vermin. Maybe the a feat that enable the harvesting of physical creature parts to gain their traits(including toxic, breath weapon, claws, natural armor, even adding additional material to increase the size to large etc.), with the cost of using of more embalming fluid(representing the added difficulties in maintaining more than the limited spectrum of parts).

Eventually they might gain an additional feat that enables them to use the traits for half the fluid cost, and eventually(around 18-20th) a feat to forgo the need for additional embalming fluid entirely(with the minor exception of the large body, since the fluid still has to cover a larger area).

Perhaps allow for them to scavenge one physical trait from the creature at first, then gain the ability to harvest 2-3 traits. The test to harvest traits requires a heal, survival, Knowledge (nature), or Dungeoneering check(representing the characters skill and understanding with extracting the relevant parts without destroying them). Have the trait be something directly linked to the creatures physical abilities(like removing a dragons elemental breath weapon apperatus, a venomous creatures venom sac, a creature with natural armours skin, fangs or claws from creatures with them etc).

What traits you allow them to have is up to you, but remember the wings of a giant dragon are still sized for the dragon, so bare that in mind before the character tries to use them. Maybe they might need to borrow some size and strength before they can even use them. either that or go for smaller wings instead.

Sounds good. The corpses would have to be in
...

*positive. negative energy healed them anyway.

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