I have looked over the monk and I like where they are going flavor wise. But it's just dosent hold up with other martial classes. I wouldn't go sacred fist because I don't want to bother with the whole atonement thing if I stab a guard or something. I was thinking a maybe a brawler? Or dose the unarmed fighter bring anything to the table? Slayer maybe so I can get GTWF with out the dex requirement ? I don't know if damage die would be the more important thing. Like getting Masonic legacy as a feat and 3 levels of monk.
I think the obvious answer is play a brawler it think. But I do love armor.
I was thinking of a 2 levels dip for master of many style to combine dragon and pummeling styles. Are the new fist feats worth it? Befuddling strike, dazing strike, Paralyzing strike, stunning fist? I was thinking of a super punch and make them make 4. Saves on hit. But a lot of things may be immune to these abilities. Especially at higher levels like 10+. Mounted combat in to spirited charge just for laughs. Should I go for Masonic legacy? Or no?
M1. Pummeling style, natures soul, stunning fist, IUAS,
M2. Pummeling charge, toughness, +1 nat armor
S3. Dragon style
S4. Slayer talent: TWF
S5. Animal ally
S6. Slayer talent: dragon ferocity
S7. Boon companion
S8. Slayer talent: ITWF, FCB: slayer talent: charge of the Criosphinx
S9. Animal soul ( for those animal growths ) I don't think it works with strong jaw and IUAS
S10. Improved critical ( IUAS )
S11. Mounted combat
S12. Ride by attack
S13. Spirited charge
S14.
Sacred fist can worship and Evil God if you're worried about your actions, and flurry in Armor.
Brawler has light armor, can go mithral breastplate with a trait
Barbs and fighters make pretty good unarmed fighters. The static damage is usually more important than the bigger dice.
A really good boost to unarmed fighting is the brawling enchantment for light armor.
Sacred fist can worship and Evil God if you're worried about your actions, and flurry in Armor.
Brawler has light armor, can go mithral breastplate with a trait
Barbs and fighters make pretty good unarmed fighters. The static damage is usually more important than the bigger dice.
A really good boost to unarmed fighting is the brawling enchantment for light armor.
Yeah most DMs don't allow evil characters. Can you show me a unarmed barbarian build? Or do you mean natural attack?
Can the brawling enchantment be put on Mithril breast plate? I don't think I would it's still medium armor.
Perhaps the solution is "don't put a guard in a stable".
Perhaps the solution is "don't put a guard in a stable".
Lol I ment stab lol.
You don't have to be evil to worship an evil Deity. But if that's not an option, no a neutral god like gorum. He understands your motives.
Mithral medium is light so you can put brawling on is as far as I know.
For barb I'd go invulnerable and You have rage powers to get TWF while in rage, or you could try and qualify for them normally. Amulet of Mighty Fist furious. I don't have anything set, but they are strong fighters, and good at combat maneuvers with strength surge.
Be a Sacred Fist of Groetus. Not evil and as far as I read him Groetus truly doesn`t care about what you do with the powers he bestows on his followers. Sure becoming lawfully aligned you pretty much lose everything but that`s only RAW. Everything in the write up on Groetus implies he would only make your Sacred Fist more insane instead of actually revoking powers.
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Hexcrafter Magus with the Hex Strike feat actually makes for a pretty hilarious unarmed build. Your damage sucks, but who cares when you can Slumber the target by punching them anyway?
Shaman does this very well too. I'd also look at the blood conduit bloodrager. Free quickened touch spell when you make an unarmed attack with no further attack roll needed.
Even the base Warpriest is quite excellent at Unarmed Combat, though it's more a mix of Unarmed + Natural Weapons that make it equal to the Sacred Fist.
Both the Sacred Fist and Warpriest can pull off the Pummeling Style + Blood Crow Strike combo that turns you into a walking Orbital Kill Sat at lv11+.
There's also the Paladin of Irori, which is the precursor to the Sacred Fist - it's from Inner Sea Gods, so it's not part of the PRD (though you can find it on d20pfsrd under "Paladin of the Enlightened"). I'm not sure how well it stacks up vs SF, but it's still designed as an Unarmed character.
You don't have to be evil to worship an evil Deity. But if that's not an option, no a neutral god like gorum. He understands your motives.
Mithral medium is light so you can put brawling on is as far as I know.
For barb I'd go invulnerable and You have rage powers to get TWF while in rage, or you could try and qualify for them normally. Amulet of Mighty Fist furious. I don't have anything set, but they are strong fighters, and good at combat maneuvers with strength surge.
I didn't know you didn't have to be evil to worship a evil deity. Yeah the invulnerable rager is pretty nasty.
Hexcrafter Magus with the Hex Strike feat actually makes for a pretty hilarious unarmed build. Your damage sucks, but who cares when you can Slumber the target by punching them anyway?Shaman does this very well too. I'd also look at the blood conduit bloodrager. Free quickened touch spell when you make an unarmed attack with no further attack roll needed.
I will look into this, thanks. And dose anyone know if dragon style ferocity add 1.5 str to my main hand IUAS permanently? I know dragon style dose on the first attack. But once you get dragon ferocity dose it give tour main hand 1.5 and you off hand full str bonus?
dragon ferocity add .5 str to ALL unarmed attacks you make, so the first attack with dragon style gets a total of 2 str.
dragon ferocity add .5 str to ALL unarmed attacks you make, so the first attack with dragon style gets a total of 2 str.
Wow I didn't know that. So this could help the unarmed build keep up with a normal weapon build ( kinda ). I have recently learned that natural attacks fall off at higher levels. But the 1.5 str is what keeps this build viable I guess.
kinda, it definitely helps. The people that do it most, Monk, Brawler, Fighter, all have ways of getting around DR. and fighter and barbarian have the damage to punch through DR. But Pummeling Style really helps in the DR area.
kinda, it definitely helps. The people that do it most, Monk, Brawler, Fighter, all have ways of getting around DR. and fighter and barbarian have the damage to punch through DR. But Pummeling Style really helps in the DR area.
Do you think the strike feats are worth it? I haven't played higher levels. But I'm going to guess that a lot is immune to them.
If you pick a good one I don't think you have to worry about immunity. I think the thing that makes them have a problem is the DC. You're wisdom probably wont be very high, and a 13 wis is kinda high too for a martial.
If you pick a good one I don't think you have to worry about immunity. I think the thing that makes them have a problem is the DC. You're wisdom probably wont be very high, and a 13 wis is kinda high too for a martial.
I think I can dump int and cha to bump wis higher. Dex can be average I don't have to meet the dex requirement.
I have a character I'm playing now that is a mix of Cavalier (Daring Champion), Brawler, and Monk (Master of Many Styles and Kata Master)
It's primarily a Cavalier with a dip into Brawler and Monk early on.
Two levels of Brawler to get Martial Flexibility and Flurry. One level of Monk to grab Snake Fang at third level. Most of the rest of the way it's Cavalier.
I piled on dex and am using Champions Finesse to get dex to attack. I'll use an amulet of mighty fists with the Agile property to get dex to damage.
I dumped wisdom and put armor on him. Brawling property on the armor of course.
Four levels of Daring Champion gives precision damage equal to your level.
When using the cavalier challenge ability you also get level to damage, so at this point you can get double your level to damage.
At 7th level you could be doing something like a D6+17 damage per hit.
This could give you something to work with.
I posted this in the Warpriest thread.
It shows how Natural Attacks can be extremely nasty, especially since they can be made as part of a Full Attack Action in tandem with your normal BAB:
Tengus would actually be one of the best Natural Attack Builds, if not one of the best builds period. With the TWF Tree, with Claws and a Bite:
Main-Hand/Offhand/Claw/Claw/Bite/Main-Hand/Offhand/Offhand at lv12
Taking Weapon Focus for both Claws and Bite would mean that you're making 8 attacks at 1d10 each.
The average would be 44 damage at full attack
Contrasting, the Sacred Fist with 5 attacks at 2d6, with 35 average damage at full attack.
Unfortunately, the Tengu would lose out on the 3 Bonus Combat feats, but since Natural Attacks would be the focus, you wouldn't need Double Slice nearly as much as a basic two-weapon build.
CL1 Weapon Focus (Bite), Weapon Focus (Claws), Improved Unarmed (Sacred)
CL2
CL3 Weapon Finesse, Dual Enhancement
CL4
CL5 Two-Weapon Fighting
CL6 Improved TWF
CL7 ???
CL8
CL9 Pummeling Style, ???
CL10
CL11 ???
CL12 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting---
As-is, with TWF, ITWF, and GTWF it's 8 attacks for 44 damage and 3 Feats open
With just Two-Weapon Fighting, it's 6 attacks for avg 33 damage and 5 feats open.
With TWF and ITWF it's 7 attacks for avg 38.5 damage and 4 feats open
If your DM allows Multiattack to be taken, that raises all your Natural Attacks to be made naturally at BAB-2
So, A Tengu Warpriest is actually a pretty lethal little bugger.
Remember that Natural Attacks don't take iterative actions, instead they're calculated as BAB-5 each, or BAB-2 with Multiattack, with each Nat Attack being used only once per Full Attack, so if you have +6/+1 for BAB and 3 Natural Attacks, it's +6/+1/+1(nat)/+1(nat)/+1(nat)
I have a character I'm playing now that is a mix of Cavalier (Daring Champion), Brawler, and Monk (Master of Many Styles and Kata Master)
It's primarily a Cavalier with a dip into Brawler and Monk early on.
Two levels of Brawler to get Martial Flexibility and Flurry. One level of Monk to grab Snake Fang at third level. Most of the rest of the way it's Cavalier.
I piled on dex and am using Champions Finesse to get dex to attack. I'll use an amulet of mighty fists with the Agile property to get dex to damage.
I dumped wisdom and put armor on him. Brawling property on the armor of course.
Four levels of Daring Champion gives precision damage equal to your level.
When using the cavalier challenge ability you also get level to damage, so at this point you can get double your level to damage.
At 7th level you could be doing something like a D6+17 damage per hit.
This could give you something to work with.
Nice build. I will look into making one
Apologies for the thread necromancy, but I think I stumbled upon the ultimate route to making an unarmed/natural weapon damage dealer. Or at least a very good route. Very feat intensive, but yowza.
Assumptions: Dragon Ferocity does things. Specifically, it makes your unarmed strikes count at a 3:1 scale for power attack. Combined with Pummeling style, it also gives you 2x STR on every damage roll in the sequence. Horn of the Criosphinx provides a 2x STR again on charges. Most importantly, it all gets transferred to Natural Weapons via Feral Combat Training.
Feats:
1)Pummeling Style
2)Pummeling Charge
3) Dragon Style
4) Dragon Ferocity
5) Power Attack
6) Weapon Focus (Claws)
7) Feral Combat Training (Claws)
8) Multiattack
9)Martial Versatility (Feral Combat Training)
10) Horn of the Criosphinx
11) TWF, etc.
Beyond that, it's all about getting as many boosts to STR as possible, because every point to your STR gets added 4 TIMES to your damage.
There is a lot of room for variation here, which I think largely comes down to when you want this to go online and race. Ironically, humans and fighters both suck at getting natural attacks but they are extremely effective choices for the concept because they gain so many feats, and Martial Versatility makes it so that the more Natural Attacks you gain, the more they factor into the crazy charge.
So you're at least going to dip into Mutation Warrior. One level nets you a feat. You need a lot of feats. It also nets you a mutagen. 4 levels nets you access to Martial Versatility. 5 nets you Weapons Training and hopefully Gloves of Dueling to boot. 7 gets you a Discovery. If you don't have Claws and Bite yet, Feral Mutagen is the obvious choice. Otherwise Wings let's you Pummeling Charge everything forever. Eventually you're going to get Greater and Grand Mutagen for moar strength. (NOTE: If Gloves of Dueling are off the table, Savage Warrior stacks with Mutation Warrior and provides some solid boons to CMB and charging. You like charging.)
Master of Many Styles 2 is probably going to be necessary to make this come to life early, as you can't get Flurry and want to skip pre-reqs for Pummeling Charge. Costs you a point of BAB, but you get so many extra attacks who cares if you get iteratives slower? It also means you get +3 to your saves and evasion, and odds are you're going to pump your DEX a bit so your reflex save is on point.
Finally, you want some RAAAAAGE. I think I favor the Bloodrager over the Barbarian for this. Abyssal Bloodrager gets claws at 1, and Enlarge Person as a free action at 4. That means +2 Strength AND reach. You can also trade in your level 4 or 8 power for 2 rage powers via Primalist. You also can get bonus feats, including Power Attack that ease the burden a bit. I like Fiend Totem for a gore attack, and Reckless for additional accuracy myself. Blood Conduit also you a free maneuver feat and the ability to channel spells through your fists as a free action. That's not necessary but it's nice.
Race: Human gets you access to Martial Versatility, but you can cheat that with Half-Orcs and Aasimar, both who have paths for natural weapons in race. Half-Orc is probably the best bet for early Bite Access.
Gear: Anything which boosts STR. Amulet of Mighty Fists (Keen being a great pick here because of Pummeling Style's Crit Combos. Add on Furious and Courageous if you're using Rage). Brawling Armor. Gloves of the Duelist.
Level Progression: Heavily depends, but this thing will be a solid martial way before it goes online. If you start Fighter or Barbarian you can always 2 Hand at level 1 and work your way up with the natural weapons. Once you get Dragon Style/Ferocity, Pummeling Style/Charge, and Power Attack, every punch you throw is getting crazy high damage. Every additional Natural Attack you add to that is basically gravy.
The math:
Let's go with Level 11 here. Half Orc, Mutation Warrior 5, MoMS 2, Bloodrager Abyssal 4. Forgive me if my WBL calculations suck, but I don't use that in my home games. Let's assume 20 strength after racial adjustments.
Belt of Giant Strength +4, Brawling Armor (+2), Gloves of Dueling (+2), Amulet of Mighty Fists (Keen, Ferocious +2), BAB +10, Enlarge Person (+2 STR, -1 Attack Rolls), Mutagen (+4 STR), Bloodrage (+4 STR), Weapons Training +1, Weapons Focus (+1 but only to claws)
34 STR = 12 STR Mod
28 to hit, 25 after Power Attack
Damage: 28+ 12 (Dragon Ferocity)+ 12 (Horn of the Criosphinx) +9 (Power Attack)
Full Attack:
Punch/Punch/Claw/Claw/Bite
+25/+20/+24/+24/+23
1d8+61/1d8+61/2d6+61/2d6+61/1d6+61
If every hit lands, you are doing 312 damage minimum. You're probably charging when you do this, so add +2 to hit. And it's one shot to bypass DR, and it all crits if one crits.
I don't think even the War Priest can touch this. What do you guys think? I feel like somebody may have already discovered this, but just in case they haven't...
Can you show me a unarmed barbarian build? Or do you mean natural attack?
You can combine both as a barbarian.
Start with IUS at first level. At second take the brawler rage power. Now you deal 1d6 damage while raging. At 3rd level add greater brawler via extra rage power to get TWF for unarmed strikes.
Add dragon style and following
Later you can take rage powers for a bite and claws if you want to combine natural attacks with the unarmed strikes. If you do take multiattack
The rest works similar to other barbarians.