Mounted flying at level 3?


Rules Questions

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

It looks like the eldritch guardian fighter archetype might actually be able use a mounted build with flight at 3rd level... If you make a small character and take a hawk with the mauler archetype, at 3rd level it can use battle form to become medium (with around 16 Str) indefinitely, which is big enough and strong enough to bear you as a rider...

So, 2 question...
- Is there any rule that prevents this?
- Is there a feat or anything that the rider or mount can/must take for this to work?

Liberty's Edge

Not that I can see, the creature still needs to worry about its encumbrance. This is really no different than a small druid riding a dire bat or Roc (Both start as medium) at level 1, the bat or Roc will have more HP that the Hawk as well so while a fighter may be flying at level 3 his mount will be relatively weak and easy to kill.

Grand Lodge

Uh, the hawk will have 13 Strength, not 16 (6 base, 4 from size increase, 2 from battle form, 1 from increased strength).

Flying mounts cannot fly if they're carrying more than a light load, so your small fighter and gear will have to weigh 50 lbs or less.

Liberty's Edge

I believe there is a -5 ride check penalty for riding a creature that is not appropriate for a mount.

Ignore the "can't fly over light load" thing. That's from 3.5e, not PF.

Grand Lodge

Druids/Hunters can ride their flying pets at lvl 1.

Grand Lodge

StabbittyDoom wrote:

I believe there is a -5 ride check penalty for riding a creature that is not appropriate for a mount.

Ignore the "can't fly over light load" thing. That's from 3.5e, not PF.

Incorrect. PF removed 3.5's general rule of no creature can fly with more than a light load, but left it in place for mounts.

CRB, page 162 wrote:
Flying mounts can’t fly in medium or heavy barding.
CRB, page 169 wrote:
A medium or heavy load counts as medium or heavy armor for the purpose of abilities or skills that are restricted by armor.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

A hawk familiar is tiny, so shouldn't it get +4 Str for going to small and another +4 for going to medium? (Putting it at 17)

Grand Lodge

nate lange wrote:
A hawk familiar is tiny, so shouldn't it get +4 Str for going to small and another +4 for going to medium? (Putting it at 17)

You're looking at the wrong chart. You don't use the monster advancement chart, which is only for monster advancing (and thus by the GM). What you use is the table in the Magic chapter of the book, found under the Polymorph section. Source.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Drat, I was looking at the wrong chart... Still though, it looks like this works as long as you stay under the weight limit (which means staying lightly armored for a while).

Liberty's Edge

Jeff Merola wrote:
StabbittyDoom wrote:

I believe there is a -5 ride check penalty for riding a creature that is not appropriate for a mount.

Ignore the "can't fly over light load" thing. That's from 3.5e, not PF.

Incorrect. PF removed 3.5's general rule of no creature can fly with more than a light load, but left it in place for mounts.

CRB, page 162 wrote:
Flying mounts can’t fly in medium or heavy barding.
CRB, page 169 wrote:
A medium or heavy load counts as medium or heavy armor for the purpose of abilities or skills that are restricted by armor.

I believe there was a huge argument about whether medium/heavy barding <=> medium/heavy armor, or if that relationship was just =>. In other words, some argue that medium/heavy barding is medium/heavy armor, but being in a medium or heavy load does not count as medium/heavy *barding* and instead only as armor.

Either way, sure, most DMs will just go with assumptions and ban flying above light load, so whether legal or not you would probably want to build assuming you had to be within light load.

IMO: Barding is armor, but armor on a mount is not automatically barding because the latter is designed to be ridden and the former is not. Therefor, you are fine with light barding and up to heavy load (with the normal slower movement speed), but you cannot have a medium/heavy armor flying mount without taking the ride check penalty for not having a saddle. When already taking a -5 penalty for inappropriate mount that can make the checks actually difficult.

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