| 43 people marked this as FAQ candidate. Answered in the FAQ. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So this question has been around a few places, and from what I have found no thread has been discussed in enough detail to create a proper interpretation of how this works.
I asked Mark Siefter and he did say this was in FAQ territory.
Does the Extra Rage Power feat count as a separate source to determine what Rage Powers a Skald can grant to their allies through their Inspire Rage class feature?
From the Skald's Rage Powers class feature:
If the skald has rage powers from another source, he (but not his allies) can use those rage powers during an inspired rage. He cannot select a duplicate rage power, unless that rage power can be taken multiple times.
And here is the Extra rage Power feat
You have unlocked a new ability to use while raging.
Prerequisite: Rage power class feature.
Benefit: You gain one additional rage power. You must meet all of the prerequisites for this rage power.
Special: You can gain Extra Rage Power multiple times.
I was involved in another thread that asked the same question. I firmly believe that the answer is NO, it does not count as 'another source'.
Another source would be a different class feature that grants you access to Rage Powers that is not tied to the Skald class. Ie, Barbarian, Bloodrager, Viking, etc.
It makes sense too. Only rage powers that are granted via the Skald's Rage Powers class feature can be passed along via their Inspired Rage ability. The Skald gains 'Rage Powers' class feature at level three and after that, his level determines how many he possesses. Extra Rage power is just giving him a +1 to that number. It is not another source.
I clicked FAQ for you as well.
The ambiguity that comes into play here is this:
Imagine a Skald 3/Barbarian 2. That character gains a rage power from being a skald and one from being a barbarian. Clearly he can only grant the one gained from being a skald.
But now imagine that character takes the Extra Rage Power feat. Which rage power class feature is that additional rage power tied to?
You could say just define it as being tied to skald, but then imagine this:
A Barbarian 2/Skald 1 takes Extra Rage Power. The rage power will definitely be tied to being a barbarian. The next 2 levels, he takes skald levels, making him a Barbarian 2/Skald 3 with Extra Rage Power. Can it suddenly become tied to skald, although it clearly wasn't when the character took the feat?
Yea, I will definitely say it is ambiguous and weird. It just kinda reminds me of the whole "primary and secondary sources" on ability bonuses awhile back.
I don't see any ambiguity. You select Extra Rage Power. You pick the source of the Rage Powers class feature (barbarian or skald). That source gets the extra rage power. You want it to be tied to a different source? Retrain the feat.
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Since Skald levels and Barbarian Levels do not stack for determining the effect of level dependent rage powers, any extra rage power would have to be assigned to either skald class or barbarian class anyway.
I think the same debate came up under extra channel, and it was determined that it added to the specific class chosen when it was taken.
Hmm... apparently I misremembered the FAQ.
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Since Skald levels and Barbarian Levels do not stack for determining the effect of level dependent rage powers, any extra rage power would have to be assigned to either skald class or barbarian class anyway.We have a FAQ about how Extra Channel functions, the assignment is made every time you use it, not when it's taken
Under that logic, when I skald raging song, I assign it to skald, and can use it in my song, but only at my skald level, not my barbarian level, even if my barbarian level is higher.
Then later, when I barbarian rage, I can use it at my full barbarian rage level.
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It is a separate source because you arent getting it from leveling up in Skald.. it is from your feats.. Just like if you took different classes the feat hinges on you having the class Rage power, thats it. and no its not 3-4 choices its EVERY OTHER LEVEL. So lets say you Skald at 3rd and got to 12th.. thats 5 rage powers you can have and since it wouldnt count as separate it wouldnt be limited.. Suddenly the party would have 9 rage powers.
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Apparently I should have preserved the quote chain better.
the way its worded Im thinking they basically nipped that in the bud to make it where those 6 choices are important.realistically, it is 3 or 4 choices at most.
My point was that most games aren't going much past 12th level. I was refering to the choices you got from skald
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I am paying attention.
I understand your concern.
*all* I am saying is that my statement about 3-4 choices was in regards to your statement about the skald getting 6 rage choices *in your initial post* *when talking about the choices granted by the skald class itself*.
that is all I am saying.
please calm down.
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Hmm... so they loose Charisma to Will, but their mount gets SR & DR?
I would have to spend a lot of time looking at the mercies to decide if the rest of it was balanced.
Yeah, it is a pretty underpowered archtype, but there are lots of underpowered archtypes.
There are also overpowered archtypes.
There are also some awesome synergies out there.
There are also some synergies that are banned because they are too awesome.
This could pretty easily be either of the latter two.
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No they lose charisma to all saves... for the Celestial Language... And then they get other stuff because they assume Later on it makes up for it. BTW dont get fooled the Mount already gets SR and DR Normally. Im saying that this is an example of what I mean. So if it seems restrictive, especially nowadays with the FAQ's its probably restrictive.. and If its good its probably gunna get nerf.. absolutely if it is something martial.
Extra rage power isn't transferred with a skald song, though the skald can benefit from it.
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Skald: The skald class says “If the skald has rage powers from another source, he (but not his allies) can use those rage powers during an inspired rage,” what exactly does it mean by “another source”?
Another source means any source other than the rage powers gained at 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter. A few examples of other sources are rage powers gained from multiclassing in barbarian, rage powers gained from Extra Rage Power, and rage powers gained from a magic item.