Aid Allies PFS Ruling


Rules Questions

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Shadow Lodge

Kletus Bob wrote:

My interpretation:

- Helpful is a trait that boost aid another from +2 to +4
- Aid allies is a feat that boost aid another from +2 to +5

A feat in my book should be more powerful than a trait. Especially when taking into consideration the feat: extra traits. This tells us that a feat is worth 2 traits.

Also, if look at order of cockatrice, the same feat slot is dazzling display as a standard action and without pre-requisite. A simple +1 on aid another would not even be close to compare with that.

Now, I would tend to say helpful does not stack with aid allies or swift aid.

However, if you want to go this route, I`d suggest looking at Gloves of Arcane Striking and benevolant armor. Coupled with helpful, can get easily to +6 and up.

Several counterpoints:

Aid Allies is not a feat.
Aid Allies outscales Helpful (halfling), even if you consider Aid Allies to initially only boost +2 to +3.
Helpful (halfling) should probably not have been printed, considering the newest aid another trait "Helpful" boosts +2 to +3, and race-restricted traits aren't meant to be any more powerful than other traits (see Reactionary vs Elven Reflexes).

Grand Lodge

Kletus Bob wrote:

My interpretation:

- Helpful is a trait that boost aid another from +2 to +4
- Aid allies is a feat that boost aid another from +2 to +5

A feat in my book should be more powerful than a trait. Especially when taking into consideration the feat: extra traits. This tells us that a feat is worth 2 traits.

Also, if look at order of cockatrice, the same feat slot is dazzling display as a standard action and without pre-requisite. A simple +1 on aid another would not even be close to compare with that.

Now, I would tend to say helpful does not stack with aid allies or swift aid.

However, if you want to go this route, I`d suggest looking at Gloves of Arcane Striking and benevolant armor. Coupled with helpful, can get easily to +6 and up.

Just to clarify, aid allies is a class ability, not a feat so the comparison to a trait is irrelevant.

For your second comparison, not all order abilities are directly equivalent.

Scarab Sages

So if a Trait "sets" the bonus to +4 like Helpful and another boosts it by saying "Increase it by +2" the Traits do stack ? Or dont they because theyre are Trait boni that per definition of same bonus dont stack?

Used for this Example: Helpful (Racial Halfling Trait) and Kin Guardian (Combat Trait)

Ruling for PFS play would be appreciated

Scarab Sages

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Good luck. I've been pushing for a Clarification on Aid Another, specifically regarding the Order of the Dragon ability, for years now. Still haven't gotten it.

Also, yes. Anything that BOOSTS Aid Another by a flat amount, and does not replace it, increases the total bonus. So Helpful sets a new, flat bonus, and can be increased by anything that provides a flat increase.


My opinion on this is that unless it specifies that it increases the bonus (such as Benevolent armor enchant) it is setting the value.

So the Order of the Dragon ability is setting it to a +3, which will grow as the character levels.

Swift Aid is setting it as a +1 instead of +2 because it allows you to do it as a swift action instead of a standard action.


Considering the incredibly underwhelming boosts you can get to Aid Another for a feat, Helpful looks to be the outlier and a +3 replacement from Aid Allies seems reasonable.

Besides, a replacement bonus is a better for for the natural english sentence than an additional bonus.


My opinion hasn't changed since I started the thread. Aid Allies doesn't say it replaces anything, it says that it gives a bonus. You would follow the same rules for bonus stacking as everything else. It is an untyped bonus from a different source so it stacks.

That being said, the only thing you are going to get here from posters (including me) is opinion and personal anecdotal experience. I can tell you that from my experience it has been ruled both ways about 50:50. The only way to get an official ruling is to hit FAQ on the first post and hope it gets noticed by the Paizo Rules Team.

Davor: Do you have a link to your thread on this?


Lune wrote:

My opinion hasn't changed since I started the thread. Aid Allies doesn't say it replaces anything, it says that it gives a bonus. You would follow the same rules for bonus stacking as everything else. It is an untyped bonus from a different source so it stacks.

That being said, the only thing you are going to get here from posters (including me) is opinion and personal anecdotal experience. I can tell you that from my experience it has been ruled both ways about 50:50. The only way to get an official ruling is to hit FAQ on the first post and hope it gets noticed by the Paizo Rules Team.

Davor: Do you have a link to your thread on this?

Strictly RAW, the Aid Allies bonus is not only untyped, it doesn't have a listed duration either. The duration can only be inferred.

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