Is there any way for a rogue to gain a familiar?


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Barring a level dip into a spellcasting (sorcerer/wizard/arcanist) class, is there any way for a rogue to gain a familiar?


You can take the feat Eldritch Heritage and pick the Arcane bloodline for a familiar but it will function as 2 levels lower than your level. There is also an advanced Rogue talent that grants one, but that means needing to be fairly high level and it has a lot of prerequisites; Eldritch Heritage is the better route.


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There is the Carnivalist Archetype from Animal Archives. In Familiar Folio there is a feat that grants anyone a familiar.


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Nohwear wrote:
In Familiar Folio there is a feat that grants anyone a familiar.

Do you happen to know the name of it?

EDIT: Familiar Bond and Improved Familiar Bond.

If you want a full familiar you have to get the Improved version, but if there is nothing there you care about then you are good to go and Iron Will is a nice feat to have anyway. If you plan on going for an Improved Familiar then Improved Familiar Bond becomes moot as most of the abilities it grants aren't necessarily applicable to your improved familiar anyway.


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Familiar Bond (requires Iron Will) to get one, Improved Familiar Bond for full power.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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nohwear- any chance you could link that feat?

as mentioned, Eldritch Heritage will get you one for 2 feats (as early as 3rd level). depending on what you're planning to do with it, you can also get an animal companion for 2 feats (nature soul and animal ally), but you have to pick from a restricted list... in either case you can take the boon companion feat to get your pet up to your full level (though if you're just trying to snag +4 initiative or some other static familiar bonus that's obviously not worthwhile).

edit: thanks Bret

re-edit: Eldritch Heritage [Arcane] seems superior to Familiar Bond in every way, except that Iron Will is a better feat than Skill Focus in a knowledge... if you're planning to spend a second feat, i guess you're slightly better off with the familiar bond chain than EH and boon companion, though you'll have to wait til the 3rd feat to get any bonuses (as opposed to 2nd with EH)... I guess if you don't have 13 Cha that limits your options (but you're a rogue, you really need to not dump Cha and be decent at Use Magic Device)


Ach, ninja'd!

Well, I suppose I could post the LESS effective way..

Rogue Familiar Talent

For a power player probably a waste of a talent, but could be good for one going for flavor and fluff.


nate lange wrote:
re-edit: Eldritch Heritage [Arcane] seems superior to Familiar Bond in every way, except that Iron Will is a better feat than Skill Focus in a knowledge... if you're planning to spend a second feat, i guess you're slightly better off with the familiar bond chain than EH and boon companion, though you'll have to wait til the 3rd feat to get any bonuses (as opposed to 2nd with EH)... I guess if you don't have 13 Cha that limits your options (but you're a rogue, you really need to not dump Cha and be decent at Use Magic Device)

Familiar Bond is the clear winner if you are looking to get Improved Familiar though; as a Rogue deliver touch spells/share spells is useless anyway and Improved Familiar trades out the familiar master bonus. The only issue is if you also want to use certain familiar archetypes, as some seemingly won't function without all the familiar abilities as they trade those abilities for other things; can't get those other things if you can't make the trade.

Sovereign Court

carnivalist is the way to go; your familiar can now also deliver sneak attack in a flank with you

the mauler *familiar* archetype from familiar folio lets you increase the size of your familiar from tiny to medium (so no AoO business against your tiny familiar every time he attacks)


Here's the reason I'm asking:

Quote:


Pack Flank feat
Benefit: When you and your companion creature have this feat, your companion creature is adjacent to you or sharing your square, and you both threaten the same opponent, you are considered to be flanking that opponent, regardless of your actual positioning.

Let's say the rogue and his familiar occupy the same square, this feat would grant auto-flanking regardless of who he attacks, correct?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

You'll need to have an animal companion to qualify for Pack Flanking.

It's also unclear to me if a familiar counts as a campanion creature.

Lantern Lodge

Wow guys, there's a Rogue Talent for this, it's called Familiar.

It's a Major Talent, and requires Minor Magic and Major Magic to get.


FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:

Wow guys, there's a Rogue Talent for this, it's called Familiar.

It's a Major Talent, and requires Minor Magic and Major Magic to get.

It's been mentioned; it's certainly an option, just not a good one.

Lantern Lodge

Ah, I missed it somehow O.o


I still think that the best way is to either take the feat, or the Carnivalist archetype.


I'm not sure how you're planning on getting that feat on a familiar in the first place.
You probably want Animal Ally.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

yeah... most familiars don't threaten adjacent squares, so even if they are valid participants in the pack fighting feat you would only gain the benefit when they're in the enemy's square and you're adjacent to it (which could result in them not living long).

an animal companion would work better for this and you can get one by taking the feats Nature Soul, and Animal Ally (you'll probably want Boon Companion too...)

Sovereign Court

Carnivalist familiar = full wizard level

Rogue talent familiar = wizard level - 4

Sovereign Court

Mauler familiar archetype makes it medium size. No more flanking or AoO problems


One could give a under-sized reach weapon (say tiny) to a tiny familiar that is able to wield weapons so that they are able to threaten the squares surrounding him.

a 'tiny' longspear with reach should do it.


Quintain wrote:

One could give a under-sized reach weapon (say tiny) to a tiny familiar that is able to wield weapons so that they are able to threaten the squares surrounding him.

a 'tiny' longspear with reach should do it.

Well that is certainly one reason to go with the classic example of a monkey.

Scarab Sages

Evolved familiar for reach dos it too.


Sadly a rules lawyer would state that a rogue doesn't have the familiar class feature. So that one is questionable. -- At least until he gains the "Familiar" advanced talent anyway.


I will say this in favor of the familiar talent- while the prerequisites are weak themselves, they do give you an SLA that has a caster level=rogue level. That means you can grab arcane strike without any problems.

That is a nice 1-5 extra damage per hit and you only need to spend a swift action. It makes a half decent substitute for power attack on a TWF build with none of the attack roll penalty.

Arcane strike also qualifies you for riving strike, which debuffs enemy saves vs spells by -2. Combine that with Enforcer to do intimidation (or whatever methods you have that cause frightened state), and you can cause a -4 to saves. A nice solid debuff that gets wizards to love you.

Of course, this is one of those 'rogues are marginally acceptable if you optimize to hell and back' things, I suppose.

Grand Lodge

Quintain wrote:

Here's the reason I'm asking:

Quote:


Pack Flank feat
Benefit: When you and your companion creature have this feat, your companion creature is adjacent to you or sharing your square, and you both threaten the same opponent, you are considered to be flanking that opponent, regardless of your actual positioning.
Let's say the rogue and his familiar occupy the same square, this feat would grant auto-flanking regardless of who he attacks, correct?

You missed the important part..

Quote:

Pack Flanking (Teamwork)

You and your companion creature are adept at fighting together against foes.

Prerequisite(s): Int 13, Combat Expertise, ability to acquire an animal companion.

Benefit: When you and your companion creature have this feat, your companion creature is adjacent to you or sharing your square, and you both threaten the same opponent, you are considered to be flanking that opponent, regardless of your actual positioning.

Normal: You must be positioned opposite an ally to flank an opponent.

Your familiar doesn't have an animal companion so doesn't qualify for the feat (how are you going to get a feat onto your companion anyway? I don't see how to do this without being a cavalier and taking this as your tactician teamwork feat.

That feat was made specifically for hunters (and secondary for inquisitors with pets).


claudekennilol wrote:

Your familiar doesn't have an animal companion so doesn't qualify for the feat (how are you going to get a feat onto your companion anyway? I don't see how to do this without being a cavalier and taking this as your tactician teamwork feat.

That feat was made specifically for hunters (and secondary for inquisitors with pets).

Well, animal companions can take any feat they are physically capable of if they have 3+ INT (which can come from level 4 increase).... but yeah, no animal companion is going to be getting that feat, since it needs 13+ INT. So you are still quite correct sir.

Grand Lodge

lemeres wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:

Your familiar doesn't have an animal companion so doesn't qualify for the feat (how are you going to get a feat onto your companion anyway? I don't see how to do this without being a cavalier and taking this as your tactician teamwork feat.

That feat was made specifically for hunters (and secondary for inquisitors with pets).

Well, animal companions can take any feat they are physically capable of if they have 3+ INT (which can come from level 4 increase).... but yeah, no animal companion is going to be getting that feat, since it needs 13+ INT. So you are still quite correct sir.

The Int 13 isn't the hard part. The ability to acquire an animal companion is the hard part.


That's what a Horsemaster's Saddle is for!

Scarab Sages

claudekennilol wrote:
Quintain wrote:

Here's the reason I'm asking:

Quote:


Pack Flank feat
Benefit: When you and your companion creature have this feat, your companion creature is adjacent to you or sharing your square, and you both threaten the same opponent, you are considered to be flanking that opponent, regardless of your actual positioning.
Let's say the rogue and his familiar occupy the same square, this feat would grant auto-flanking regardless of who he attacks, correct?

You missed the important part..

Quote:

Pack Flanking (Teamwork)

You and your companion creature are adept at fighting together against foes.

Prerequisite(s): Int 13, Combat Expertise, ability to acquire an animal companion.

Benefit: When you and your companion creature have this feat, your companion creature is adjacent to you or sharing your square, and you both threaten the same opponent, you are considered to be flanking that opponent, regardless of your actual positioning.

Normal: You must be positioned opposite an ally to flank an opponent.

Your familiar doesn't have an animal companion so doesn't qualify for the feat (how are you going to get a feat onto your companion anyway? I don't see how to do this without being a cavalier and taking this as your tactician teamwork feat.

That feat was made specifically for hunters (and secondary for inquisitors with pets).

If the familiar has the valet archetype, it shares ALL of your teamwork feats. That's the only way to get pack flanking on a familiar.

Grand Lodge

Even so, the feat is absolutely useless unless you specifically have an animal companion. So even if you can get this feat onto your familiar, it won't do anything. It says "your companion creature" after having a prereq of "must be able to acquire an animal companion". A familiar is not a companion so even if it had the feat it would be useless for both of them because neither of them have a companion.

I forgot about that case, but as I already pointed out via the one level cavalier dip that's not the only way to get the feat onto the companion. I'm sure there are other esoteric ways that are equally as useless.


Ok, since a familiar isn't an animal companion (slight mistake there), how does a rogue get an animal companion (not a familiar) that doesn't require a dip into a different class.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Quintain wrote:
Barring a level dip into a spellcasting (sorcerer/wizard/arcanist) class, is there any way for a rogue to gain a familiar?

Familiar Handbook shows how ANYONE can gain a familiar.


Quintain wrote:
Ok, since a familiar isn't an animal companion (slight mistake there), how does a rogue get an animal companion (not a familiar) that doesn't require a dip into a different class.

2 feat chain Nature Soul + Animal Ally. Now how you get the companion to have a 13 int to take the feat is beyond me. I seriously DOUBT that they expected you to put a point into IQ so your AC can take linguistics, read a +4 book and then use a +6 headband....


Quintain wrote:
Ok, since a familiar isn't an animal companion (slight mistake there), how does a rogue get an animal companion (not a familiar) that doesn't require a dip into a different class.
NikolaiJuno wrote:

I'm not sure how you're planning on getting that feat on a familiar in the first place.

You probably want Animal Ally.
Oddman80 wrote:
That's what a Horsemaster's Saddle is for!

Looks like you're making a mounted Rogue.


Ughbash wrote:
Quintain wrote:
Ok, since a familiar isn't an animal companion (slight mistake there), how does a rogue get an animal companion (not a familiar) that doesn't require a dip into a different class.

2 feat chain Nature Soul + Animal Ally. Now how you get the companion to have a 13 int to take the feat is beyond me. I seriously DOUBT that they expected you to put a point into IQ so your AC can take linguistics, read a +4 book and then use a +6 headband....

I don't believe the feats prerequisites (combat expertise, Int 13+) are intended to be applied to the animal.

Otherwise, this feat is impossible, as an animal companion with an int score would have to be awakened and a cohort, not an animal companion.

Grand Lodge

Quintain wrote:
Ughbash wrote:
Quintain wrote:
Ok, since a familiar isn't an animal companion (slight mistake there), how does a rogue get an animal companion (not a familiar) that doesn't require a dip into a different class.

2 feat chain Nature Soul + Animal Ally. Now how you get the companion to have a 13 int to take the feat is beyond me. I seriously DOUBT that they expected you to put a point into IQ so your AC can take linguistics, read a +4 book and then use a +6 headband....

I don't believe the feats prerequisites (combat expertise, Int 13+) are intended to be applied to the animal.

Otherwise, this feat is impossible, as an animal companion with an int score would have to be awakened and a cohort, not an animal companion.

They most certainly are intended. Animal companions simply aren't meant to gain this feat as one of their own feats. As pointed out above this feat is intended for hunters which freely give all of their known teamwork feats to their companions (and to a less extent inquisitors with pets because they get to treat allies as having their teamwork feats).


It is also usable by Cavaliers and any Tactician archetype, as well as anyone using a companion mount with a Horsemaster's Saddle.

The feat is rather restrictive, but it's a teamwork feat and they all are to an extent.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I was wrong in my earlier post.

The simple answer is to take the Familiar Advanced Rogue Talent. It does have the pre-req of taking the major and minor magic talents.

Sovereign Court

That rogue talent is horrible because your effective wizard level is rogue minus 4

Lantern Lodge

Who cares about the effective wizard level for a familiar? What does it give you?

Your familiar would still have your BaB, saves, 1/2 your HP. All the EWL would give is more intelligence and NA, and some of the abilities sooner (which are really not all that important).


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If it is a Mauler familiar, lower familiar level means lower Strength.


I'm not sure if there's a particular reason the OP wants a familiar instead of an animal companion. But there's a way for the Rogue to gain an animal companion too, probably more than one, but the Eldritch Bloodline feat is one way to get it done.

The Fey (Sylvan) bloodline from Ultimate Magic. First power is gaining an animal companion with your level -3 as your effective Druid level. The 3rd lvl power is Woodland Stride. The 9th lvl power is to use Greater Invisibility for a number of rounds equal to your sorcerer level.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Shadowlord wrote:

I'm not sure if there's a particular reason the OP wants a familiar instead of an animal companion. But there's a way for the Rogue to gain an animal companion too, probably more than one, but the Eldritch Bloodline feat is one way to get it done.

The Fey (Sylvan) bloodline from Ultimate Magic. First power is gaining an animal companion with your level -3 as your effective Druid level. The 3rd lvl power is Woodland Stride. The 9th lvl power is to use Greater Invisibility for a number of rounds equal to your sorcerer level.

A lot of people keep bringing it up while forgetting that the First power of the Syvlan Bloodline requires the replacement of TWO items when the feat only supplies one.


Shadowlord wrote:

I'm not sure if there's a particular reason the OP wants a familiar instead of an animal companion. But there's a way for the Rogue to gain an animal companion too, probably more than one, but the Eldritch Bloodline feat is one way to get it done.

The Fey (Sylvan) bloodline from Ultimate Magic. First power is gaining an animal companion with your level -3 as your effective Druid level. The 3rd lvl power is Woodland Stride. The 9th lvl power is to use Greater Invisibility for a number of rounds equal to your sorcerer level.

Oh, this one is nice. Not being overly familiar (no pun intended) with the animal companion rules -- the animal companion in this case would advance according to the druid progression rate, then, correct?


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Eldritch Heritage does not work with Sylvan. The pet is part of the arcana as well as Wildblooded not being available to Eldritch Heritage


LazarX wrote:
A lot of people keep bringing it up while forgetting that the First power of the Syvlan Bloodline requires the replacement of TWO items when the feat only supplies one.

I'd never noticed that.

Xethik wrote:
Wildblooded not being available to Eldritch Heritage

Is this statement supported by FAQ or a designer team statement somewhere?


There is a statement or something. It that those bloodlines are only for the archetype and aren't actual bloodlines. They are impure bloodlines or something like that.

Sovereign Court

FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:

Who cares about the effective wizard level for a familiar? What does it give you?

Your familiar would still have your BaB, saves, 1/2 your HP. All the EWL would give is more intelligence and NA, and some of the abilities sooner (which are really not all that important).

You need at least effective wizard level 3 for the Mauler's battle form, and effective wizard level 11 for the Decoy's humanoid form (usable at will, I was told)

So yeah, you're right that a Carnivalist 3 can then move on to something else with Sneak dice, but an Eldritch Guardian who wants his twin brother longsword specialist should not steer from the path too much...

By the way, Mauler's battle form requirement being level 3 wizard equivalent means you'll need to by rogue 7 or higher if you wish to gain your familiar via rogue talent... still a bad move considering the horrendous prereqs...

Scarab Sages

Purple Dragon Knight wrote:


By the way, Mauler's battle form requirement being level 3 wizard equivalent means you'll need to by rogue 7 or higher if you wish to gain your familiar via rogue talent... still a bad move considering the horrendous prereqs...

Actually, Minor and Major Magic are some of the best rogue talents you can take, as they enable both touch sneak attacks and arcane strike. The also are needed for Dispelling Attack which is quite good. At that point, a familiar is just one more talent away.

The feats are still a better option, but the talent isn't terrible (other than being a rogue in the first place)


Nohwear wrote:
There is the Carnivalist Archetype from Animal Archives. In Familiar Folio there is a feat that grants anyone a familiar.

Yep, that's the first thing that came to mind. Very good roleplaying opportunities to. Find it Here!

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