Oh yes I am so going there.
A +4 Dex, +2 Int, Wis, and Cha with a -2 Con.
SR of 11+Level
And a number of Spell Like Abilities
Drow nobles can cast dancing lights, deeper darkness, faerie fire, feather fall, and levitate each at will, and have detect magic as a constant spell-like ability. A drow noble can also cast divine favor, dispel magic, and suggestion once per day each. In some cases, a drow noble's spell-like abilities might vary, although the level of a particular spell-like ability does not. A drow noble's caster level for her spell-like abilities is equal to her character level.
Now I want to play a LG Paladin, of course this is a gestalt game as are many of mine. But that class is Swashbuckler, Rapier and all seems iconic for the Drow its focus on high Dex even more so makes it perfect.
Now of course people will complain because "Oh you just want to be a special snowflake" or "nobles are too powerful, just play a normal drow." Well I don't care and I don't want too I want to play a Drow Noble. So please do not make this thread about that.
What I want help on is how to build a Paladin as I have not ever played one. Also with Divine Bond should I go mount or weapon focus? What feats will be best? I plan on taking Rapier and Light Armor (With smite's bonus to AC and Dodge Panache seems like I might be alright). What traits are best?
The character is a Drow Noble who was born of Common Parents. These Drows went to near the surface when they had the child. Worried the other nobles would either kill them and take the child, or kill all three of them. Either way they figured they where screwed as it held that many noble born of base parents killed them anyway. So while evil and selfish the mother could not overcome her motherly love, at least as this was her first child. She could not bring herself to kill the child, and the husband feared his wife's retaliation if he attempted it himself. Instead they took the child near the surface and left it. Sure it would die but at least it would not be bloodying their hands. Soon after the child was found by a forest spider of very large size and carried from the cave it was found to the woods. Planning on turning the youngster into a nest for its young, as well as a good food source for the hatch-lings it encased him in silk and prepared to lay its eggs. It was stopped by a passing blind man who had heard the babies cries and slew the beast before it could act to harm the child. This blind man was a former Paladin himself, sensing no evil from the newborn he took the baby home and took care of it. Raising it up to be a good man, never seeing what his race was. It was not till the boy was ten already that the man asked the boy to describe himself. After realizing he was drow he became concerned as he knew the boy wanted to become a traveler and a hero as he had been in his youth but knew the elves would likely kill him on sight. So he changed up his training some, teaching him to wear gloves to hide his hands, a large hat to hide his head and face and to always keep his distance when not working toward a good goal.
That is a general background I pitched to my DM anyway.
Drow nobles have no level adjust as of official published books
Drow Noble at bottom
In the stat block listed, notice that it is a CR 3, Cleric level 3 At most this might mean a level 1 set back on one class side but althought Jason Bulmahn did say their Cr should be 1 it was on a forum post, not official Errata.
I think I will focus on the weapon then, as for traits Warrior of Old gives a nice bonus to initiative allowing him to almost always move first.
Any specific weapon enhancements I should look for and why?
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Drow nobles have no level adjust as of official published books
Drow Noble at bottom
In the stat block listed, notice that it is a CR 3, Cleric level 3 At most this might mean a level 1 set back on one class side but althought Jason Bulmahn did say their Cr should be 1 it was on a forum post, not official Errata.I think I will focus on the weapon then, as for traits Warrior of Old gives a nice bonus to initiative allowing him to almost always move first.
Any specific weapon enhancements I should look for and why?
You will probably ignore this but... Just to make sure you are aware it exists.
Drow nobles for player characters were later rewritten in the Advanced Races Guide. As a player character if you wish to play a "noble" you start as a "normal" drow and take feats specific to the race to unlock the abilities. As the most recently released content on the subject, it would be the current "official rules" for playing a noble drow (ARG page 102 if you wish to look at it).
It was actually a rather intelligent solution to the problem. As a CR for monsters, the ability bonuses are less an issue as the single monster is up against a party of 4 so the write up in the bestiary stands as useful for the GM to quickly and easily make opponents (the purpose of the book after all). Where as the newer rules curb the front loaded power of the "monster" and spread out the abilities at a more manageable pace over the career of the PC, while still allowing the player to play the race. It kept them from having to issue errata on the book.
That all being said, the feat line is a bit on the intensive side (I'd be happy to list them and the prereqs if you need/don't have access to the book). It would be much less of an issue for you playing gestalt as you could just take levels of fighter to offset the feat investment and still get some combat feats into your build.
The official rules for playing as a drow noble is a suggestion that you start one level lower (I guess in only one of your classes you're gestalt)
The OP touched on that in their first post. When it was posted there hadn't been the commotion about "Paizo employee posts" that lead to the now current only the design team publishes errata/FAQs. So they are choosing to ignore the post as "official" rules.
As I mentioned that post was in late 2009 and they have since published more "appropriate" rules (I guess you'd say) for players playing noble drow in the ARG in 2012.
All entries with PC levels generally have class level -1 CR, for example, the oread fighter in beastiary two is a level one fighter but has CR 1/2. NPC's wih npc classes have class level minus 2, as the drow warrior is 1/3. Let's say your GM has a villain Wizard 6 that's super rich. The gm can give the villain PC wealth instead of NPC wealth, making him CR 6 instead of the normal CR 5. Therefore most PCs are considered CR 6 because they have better equipment. Since the drow noble is a level 3 cleric with CR 3 and npc gear. Therefore, a player wanting to play a drow noble cleric 3 with PC treasure would be at the same effective character level as his level 4 human/ elf / whatever friends
Well, I mean the big thing is that as a Drow Noble you have 6 free feats from character creation. That is INSANELY powerful.
So I mean, I guess if your GM is cool with it but that is kind of like starting as a human with 6 free general feats IN ADDITION to everything else they have going for them.
Also, playing a LG drow just feels wrong. It's like playing a LG Tiefling or a CE Asimar...it just makes me feel icky.
I mean, if you want Paladin Advice you need to let us know how you want to build. Sword and Board defensive Paladin? Crit Machine? Two-Handed? With a Rapier you can take a 1 level dip into Inspired Blade and come out with Dex to Damage with Slashing Grace.
Then I'd grab Butterfly Sting to set up criticals for my party. From there, I'm not sure. Honestly I'm not sure why you even need a build beyond level 3, I mean you're a Paladin and a Drow Noble. Smite things and kill them.
Maybe see if you can use your Deeper Darkness somehow, maybe with the Moonlight tree or blindfight or something. Quicken Spelllike ability will come in handy later on.
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The official rules for playing as a drow noble is a suggestion that you start one level lower (I guess in only one of your classes you're gestalt)The OP touched on that in their first post. When it was posted there hadn't been the commotion about "Paizo employee posts" that lead to the now current only the design team publishes errata/FAQs. So they are choosing to ignore the post as "official" rules.
As I mentioned that post was in late 2009 and they have since published more "appropriate" rules (I guess you'd say) for players playing noble drow in the ARG in 2012.
I looked up that page, and well it doesn't seem to say to play a drow noble use those feats. They definitely help make a drow noble character. But I have to disagree that taking the feats is even a valid option.
I mean that's honestly like suggesting Magical Tail to a Kitsune.
Sure they are nice feats, that totally gimp your character for something that is overshadowed greatly by the time you get it.
To get all 6 feats you would have to be a level 11 character.
Level 11 is when Wizard's get their 6th level spells. You are saying at any point in those feats they compare even slightly in power to a 6th level spell?
Basically if you are forced to take the 6 feats to be a noble, either you have to be a full caster, or pray to whomever you worship the build you want requires 0 feat investments... and that seems unlikely for a Paladin
i'll agree with shadowkire and say if you plan on going the light armor/rapier route then you'll wanna focus on the swashbuckler side--and personally i'd suggest the Daring Champion cavalier archetype over it--and letting the paladin gestalt side serve as a solid base to go upwards from (since it grants great offense and defense without much specialization)
i'd personally say take weapon bond over a mount, since i find mounts can be a liability sometimes and the extra enhancement bonus (or enchants) are super helpful in the earlier game.
The official rules for playing as a drow noble is a suggestion that you start one level lower (I guess in only one of your classes you're gestalt)The OP touched on that in their first post. When it was posted there hadn't been the commotion about "Paizo employee posts" that lead to the now current only the design team publishes errata/FAQs. So they are choosing to ignore the post as "official" rules.
As I mentioned that post was in late 2009 and they have since published more "appropriate" rules (I guess you'd say) for players playing noble drow in the ARG in 2012.
I looked up that page, and well it doesn't seem to say to play a drow noble use those feats. They definitely help make a drow noble character. But I have to disagree that taking the feats is even a valid option.
I mean that's honestly like suggesting Magical Tail to a Kitsune.
Sure they are nice feats, that totally gimp your character for something that is overshadowed greatly by the time you get it.
To get all 6 feats you would have to be a level 11 character.
Level 11 is when Wizard's get their 6th level spells. You are saying at any point in those feats they compare even slightly in power to a 6th level spell?Basically if you are forced to take the 6 feats to be a noble, either you have to be a full caster, or pray to whomever you worship the build you want requires 0 feat investments... and that seems unlikely for a Paladin
As a general rule, bestiary creatures aren't options for players sans Rule 0, when a GM allows it. As mentioned before the template in the bestiary was in error (as per Paizo post prior to the "Dev team only" era). The fact that it is GROSSLY overpowered early game is why people are interested in playing it. That they basically goofed in printing it is why they made alternate rules in a book about players playing non standard races, for players to play the concept without throwing any semblance of balance out the window. They effectively split it up along the leveling path so that the abilities came online as they believe they should in a "normal" game to maintain some semblance of balance.
They made a playable race (elf, drow) and added options to make them "noble drow" if that was what the player really wanted. People tend to forget the game is very often "standardized" due to their promotion of PFS and organized play, where power swings are readily apparent. They made a manageable "noble drow" in the ARG for players so a GM didn't have to worry about balancing out a monster PC, without nullifying the monster template for the GM to use.
As for the feat line... If you want to argue that a feat line that includes the prereq feat "noble drow" as not intended to play a Noble drow character... We honestly will be unable to have a meaningful discussion.
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As a general rule, bestiary creatures aren't options for players sans Rule 0, when a GM allows it. As mentioned before the template in the bestiary was in error (as per Paizo post prior to the "Dev team only" era). The fact that it is GROSSLY overpowered early game is why people are interested in playing it. That they basically goofed in printing it is why they made alternate rules in a book about players playing non standard races, for players to play the concept without throwing any semblance of balance out the window. They effectively split it up along the leveling path so that the abilities came online as they believe they should in a "normal" game to maintain some semblance of balance.
They made a playable race (elf, drow) and added options to make them "noble drow" if that was what the player really wanted. People tend to forget the game is very often "standardized" due to their promotion of PFS and organized play, where power swings are readily apparent. They made a manageable "noble drow" in the ARG for players so a GM didn't have to worry about balancing out a monster PC, without nullifying the monster template for the GM to use.
As for the feat line... If you want to argue that a feat line that includes the prereq feat "noble drow" as not intended to play a Noble drow character... We honestly will be unable to have a meaningful discussion.
No, the point is that the feats are a trap option. The idea that the feats are even a valid character selection at that level is... pretty silly, frankly.
In the advanced race guide, I find the drow to be vastly over-priced for what they can actually do - goofily so. I mean, 41 race points?
Their magic spells (which is really the big thing they offer) would cost ~ 70,000 gold (give or take), of which 30,000 gold is an at-will darkness effect (it would be 56,400 if you just used individual trinkets instead of compiling it all into one thing).
That is not worth six feats - out of your grand total of ten, I might remind. In fact, it's worht approximiately one feat usable three times per day.
After all, while those abilities are great at lower levels, they really aren't all that hot at higher levels, and you've expended an unchanging part of your character and very rare resource to acquire what amounts to an okay magic item at higher levels.
And by that point, you're also still not playing a "drow noble" character; every other drow noble in the game you'd come across will have exactly six more feats than you, and have better racial ability scores.
You will be so far behind NPCs of your own kind that it's kind of silly. If you expended the money to make the item in question (let's make it an invisible tattoo, so it's like it's part of your character), you'd have expended so much that you'd also be behind an NPC's wealth curve by 11th level (though you'd start increasing again at 12th level*). It literally puts you at less power than an NPC, much less your fellow PCs.
It's a clunky and poorly developed mechanic.
Finding people who want to be less than an NPC for 12 levels is a hard sell.
So... I GM'ed a drow paladin through all of RotRL, and she started as a regular drow, then paid the appropriate feats as she leveled up to "evolve" into a drow noble.
So why not take that tactic and avoid the drama?
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So... I GM'ed a drow paladin through all of RotRL, and she started as a regular drow, then paid the appropriate feats as she leveled up to "evolve" into a drow noble.
So why not take that tactic and avoid the drama?
Because being 6 feats behind everyone else in a combat class that really does require feats to be useful. Things like Power Attack, Cleave, Furious Focus, etc things we tend to look over as Duh choices for the feats.
When your fellow Melee Party mates are Charging and PAing and are just using their feats properly they are straight up going to make any damage you deal seem minimal at best.
Your party is likely going to be getting annoyed when it takes you twice as long to kill an opponent as it is them. Your Spell-Like Abilities at level 11 are no where near as useful as a Wizard with the same spells. I mean Deeper Darkness is cool and all, and a Wizard with a wand has invested less and has the same effect.
Lets be fair and see what each trades off. Drow with the Nobility Feat line is the same CR as the Party but comes in with 6 less feats. Where the Drow Noble starts as 1 level higher then the party and the same feat progression.
What player wouldn't rather take a 1 level gimp rather in 11 levels of being gimped by no feats.
Of course this is not counting a Fighter Drow Noble who can do this by 6th level, but even they will be gimped, just not nearly as hard.
So why not just invest up to deeper darkness and make use of blind fight or the moonlight stalker feat chain? You only ends three feats to get your best abilities. Four I you want an extra +5 to your SR. What does this paladin really need to work, slashing grace an a one level dip into inspired blade, improved critical, maybe butterfly sting? Can you really not spare the three feats for your powerful slas?
You wouldn't be any farther "behind" stat wise than any other PC who isn't a drow noble, the difference would actually be less because assumedly, you'd be built on a PC stat buy as opposed to an NPC stat base.
It's a poor example because Drow Nobles are essentially monsters in a humanoid form, and you're not really supposed to balance against them.
Depends on the NPC (and point buy), but fair enough. But again, the stats aren't really the best thing to get from drow anyway.
Instead you're going to be behind in either feats or gold by a substantial margin.
The problem is that the power the drow nobles receive isn't really all that substantial.
Drow nobles can cast dancing lights, deeper darkness, faerie fire, feather fall, and levitate each at will, and have detect magic as a constant spell-like ability. A drow noble can also cast divine favor, dispel magic, and suggestion once per day each. In some cases, a drow noble's spell-like abilities might vary, although the level of a particular spell-like ability does not. A drow noble's caster level for her spell-like abilities is equal to her character
Dancing lights does a drow no good - they already have darkvision to 120 ft. It's a wasted ability.
Deeper darkness will negate even drow darkvision. That's useful against monsters, but it also hinders you. It's a "run the heck away" ability, and, for what it does, obscuring mist is just as good, if not better.
Faerie fire is the first solid ability, given that it allows you to negate invisibility and stealth, but stealth is notoriously hard to use anyway for many creatures. Still, it's useful. The problem is that I don't really care if it comes from myself, or a 1,800 gold item.
Feather fall is nice to have... but it's not very commonly useful, and a 50 gold-piece one-shot item covers this.
Levitate is similarly limited in its use - it certainly has strategic value, but, again, the limits in place mean that it's use is very situational, at best - it's not worth the presumed cost of an at-will ability of its kind.
Then there's the constant detect magic - again, nice, but a 1,000 gold item or a first level any caster class covers this.
Divine favor is pretty great... but it's (2k*1*9/5) or 3,600 to get the maximum value you're ever really going to get from it.
Dispel magic and suggestion are the only two abilities that are actively harmed by having an item do it instead, and each of them are only once per day.
I can cover pretty much all of the "main" abilities I could want by sixth level with typical wealth by level; by playing literally any arcane caster, I could cover everything else.
The only value of the spell-likes, then, is for a martial... i.e. the people that don't generally have skills to take spellcraft (the thing that makes detect magic valuable). The two exceptions are the paladin and the rogue - and the paladin gets divine favor anyway. That means that the person that could most take advantage of drow noble stuff is the rogue... widely considered one of the weakest classes (if not the weakest class) in the game.
Then there's the problem of playing a drow noble: the spell resistance. Nice against hostile spells, it's terrible if applied against allied spells (which it is automatically). There's the constitution penalty (which is rough as a martial of any kind).
The proficiencies overlaps with a rogue's, making it not terribly valuable.
Poison use is nice, but poisons are prohibitively expensive... unless you're a caster using poison, in which case it doesn't really matter.
And, of course, light blindness. Sigh.
On the other hand, I could play an elf spellcaster, spend the ~7000 gold or so to net me the unique abilities, and literally do everything else better than a drow noble by sixth level without spending six feats.
And, as an elf, if I get the overwhelming urge to play a martial for some reason, I can do so and spend the the money to get a transformation spell, maybe bling myself out with a mage armor or shield. Or just wait until they're eleventh level - after all, the player is patient enough to wait until they're eleventh level for their character concept to come online anyway.
Maybe take a one-level dip in alchemist or ninja or daggermark poisoner, or something, if I really wanted poison use for some reason.
A 75 gold expense covers the sight issue, or for stealth darkvision (which can be made permanent, if you really need to).
The fact is, the drow noble is nice - very nice - but it's not nearly as overwhelming as it's race points or six-feat investment imply.
A couple of +1s to some things (covered by guidance), and two abilities not really easily covered isn't all that important to sacrifice that much for.
EDIT:
I did forget to mention, that you could use a magic item to negate light blindness - it's 1,000 gold, or, if your GM doesn't want those cantrips (understandable), it's 20,000 gold.
So... I GM'ed a drow paladin through all of RotRL, and she started as a regular drow, then paid the appropriate feats as she leveled up to "evolve" into a drow noble.
So why not take that tactic and avoid the drama?
Because being 6 feats behind everyone else in a combat class that really does require feats to be useful. Things like Power Attack, Cleave, Furious Focus, etc things we tend to look over as Duh choices for the feats.
When your fellow Melee Party mates are Charging and PAing and are just using their feats properly they are straight up going to make any damage you deal seem minimal at best.
Your party is likely going to be getting annoyed when it takes you twice as long to kill an opponent as it is them. Your Spell-Like Abilities at level 11 are no where near as useful as a Wizard with the same spells. I mean Deeper Darkness is cool and all, and a Wizard with a wand has invested less and has the same effect.
Lets be fair and see what each trades off. Drow with the Nobility Feat line is the same CR as the Party but comes in with 6 less feats. Where the Drow Noble starts as 1 level higher then the party and the same feat progression.
What player wouldn't rather take a 1 level gimp rather in 11 levels of being gimped by no feats.
Of course this is not counting a Fighter Drow Noble who can do this by 6th level, but even they will be gimped, just not nearly as hard.
Theorycrafting is all well and good, -but- she was the standout melee character of the party, able to tank with her massive AC while Smite Evil wreaked havoc with the enemies.
Of course, she only took 3 drow noble feats. I have no idea what the other 3 were, but watching her choose "melee" feat then "drow" feat alternatively was loads of fun.
If you step away from optimization and instead say, "Would this be fun to play in an AP?", an evolving PC taking the feats works just fine.
EDIT: I mean honestly, I just fired up Hero Lab to find out what she'd skipped, and she took Drow Nobility, Improved Drow Nobility, and Greater Drow Nobility, but skipped the whole "Umbral Scion" stuff as not worth the feats. So I'd STRONGLY argue that it's a THREE-feat tax to build a really cool character concept. I'm still strongly in favor of it.
Just because it isn't "optimal" doesn't mean it's not "fun". She sure as h*** didn't drag down the rest of the party! She elevated them.
So... I GM'ed a drow paladin through all of RotRL, and she started as a regular drow, then paid the appropriate feats as she leveled up to "evolve" into a drow noble.
So why not take that tactic and avoid the drama?
Because if they use the drow noble from the bestiary they get everything for free... Stats, sla's, SR all for nothing besides race choice. Not even level adjustment.
It is the whole "why should I pay more, when I can get it for less" mentality.
So... I GM'ed a drow paladin through all of RotRL, and she started as a regular drow, then paid the appropriate feats as she leveled up to "evolve" into a drow noble.
So why not take that tactic and avoid the drama?
Because if they use the drow noble from the bestiary they get everything for free... Stats, sla's, SR all for nothing besides race choice. Not even level adjustment.
It is the whole "why should I pay more, when I can get it for less" mentality.
That is probably the best way to say it.
Its why I'm glad they redesigned it in the ARG. If your GM is competent enough to "handle" the power differences between PCs by using the bestiary version, great. If they balk at it, you have the ARG version to be able to play a noble drow. They didn't remove the option of playing one, they gave the players more options to do the same thing.
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Also, playing a LG drow just feels wrong. It's like playing a LG Tiefling or a CE Asimar...it just makes me feel icky.
:(
Also, playing a LG drow just feels wrong. It's like playing a LG Tiefling or a CE Asimar...it just makes me feel icky.:(
Sorry :(
Just because I don't like doing it doesn't mean other people can't, I just like playing races near their alignment. My characters are odd and sometimes insane enough without jumping from CE to LG or visa versa. Too many steps on the alignment chart for most characters, I'd need a really good reason to play someone like that...which would probably mean the character is insane for one reason or another.
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Also, playing a LG drow just feels wrong. It's like playing a LG Tiefling or a CE Asimar...it just makes me feel icky.:(Sorry :(
Just because I don't like doing it doesn't mean other people can't, I just like playing races near their alignment. My characters are odd and sometimes insane enough without jumping from CE to LG or visa versa. Too many steps on the alignment chart for most characters, I'd need a really good reason to play someone like that...which would probably mean the character is insane for one reason or another.
The thing is, tieflings and aasimar aren't bound to alignments any more than humans are. The actual setting makes a big deal out of this, with both their race books going on at length about good tieflings and evil aasimar.
In fact, the first BBEG of the first AP volume is
Really? I've never gone through their books actually, just browsed the brief little data that comes in the advanced Race guide. I guess since I never bothered with Champions of Purity/Corruption I never picked up on that vibe.
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Really? I've never gone through their books actually, just browsed the brief little data that comes in the advanced Race guide. I guess since I never bothered with Champions of Purity/Corruption I never picked up on that vibe.
Blood of Fiends/Angels are the relevant books actually. There's a lot of good flavor to pick through there.
Fun note: The tiefling on the cover of Blood of Fiends shown fighting Seelah actually turns up in Champions of Purity in the Redemption section, as an undercover follower of Iomedae. :)
(Blood of Fiends and the ARG also share an amazing piece of artwork of a tiefling cleric of Sarenrae, who turns up again in the Demon Hunter's Handbook)
Two levels of paladin is often well worth a dip for the saves alone (especially with a race that buffs CHA) for anything besides a caster. You are getting decent base saves, full BAB, full weapon/armor prof (minus tower), smite with a decent bonus to hit (CHA) and extra damage is never bad, as well as an AC bump (CHA). A few emergency heals (based off CHA) as a swift action on yourself with no need to lower SR...
Wait how exactly is any of that not synergistic with a melee type? How does the majority of that tarnish over a characters career? Oh wait, it doesn't.
Saying there is a lack of synergy is like admitting you don't understand basic optimization.
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Sheelevatedlevitated them.
Literally! Doh-hohohohohohoh~!
Theorycrafting is all well and good, -but- she was the standout melee character of the party, able to tank with her massive AC while Smite Evil wreaked havoc with the enemies.
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that this is aaaaallll paladin, showcasing exactly how powerful said class is, instead of the utility of a drow noble. :)
Of course, she only took 3 drow noble feats. I have no idea what the other 3 were, but watching her choose "melee" feat then "drow" feat alternatively was loads of fun.
If you step away from optimization and instead say, "Would this be fun to play in an AP?", an evolving PC taking the feats works just fine.
And this is a major - major difference. The three feats that she took are exactly the three feats that grant you spell-likes. That's pretty much exactly what I covered above, including the paladin being one of those most able to make use of the drow spell-likes (due to high charisma and possible spellcraft).
This is exactly the thing I mentioned you'd play a drow noble for.
EDIT: I mean honestly, I just fired up Hero Lab to find out what she'd skipped, and she took Drow Nobility, Improved Drow Nobility, and Greater Drow Nobility, but skipped the whole "Umbral Scion" stuff as not worth the feats. So I'd STRONGLY argue that it's a THREE-feat tax to build a really cool character concept. I'm still strongly in favor of it.
Just because it isn't "optimal" doesn't mean it's not "fun". She sure as h*** didn't drag down the rest of the party! She elevated them.
The feats she didn't take?
- umbral scion and improved: I mentioned that this overlaps with paladin stuff- noble resistance: I mentioned that this was problematic because SR in general is problematic
Your actual drow character followed the gist of my theorycraft pretty well, in fact!
So here's the thing: what would she have gotten by playing a drow noble? In the early part of the AP, she'd have been pretty stand out. Later, she'd have had a +1 to AC (maybe, depending on her armor) and saves. She'd have had to deal with the consequences of spell resistance and, every once in a great while, she'd have been able to use a spell that another spellcaster (or she herself) could have done better through their class anyway. And this is worth three feats? No. And the only reason she'd get as much as she does is by going paladin - who lose out on the racial "freebie" of using poison (as it calls out in their code explicitly as one of the things that violates honor and thus causes them to fall), and who don't really care about the racial proficiency bonus (because, as a paladin, she already has those).
The real thing that she lost were three feats. Which is a pretty hefty tax to my way of thinking.
I am curious how you all got around the light blindness, though! Did she simply eat the penalties, or did she actually trade darkvision/light blindness for lowlight vision? (Or did she take the old 3.5 feat Daylight Adaptation?)
Which is not inherently problematic, because it makes me much less inclined to care about the 41 RP race. Admittedly it also helps that that 41 RP is terribly distributed.
This is really my problem with the ARG version of the Drow Noble.
41 points? Really? Really?
Holy carp the powerful critters that could be made with 41 points... no, "drow" do not fall into that category.
EDIT: BY THE WAY: I'm not trying to discredit Nobodyshome's game, player, or anecdotes. I know it might come off that way to an atonal internet, so I wish to clarify - I am super glad it worked out for you guys! That's awesome! I'm always happy when people have a fun gaming experience (unless it's super squicky, but, you know, so long as I don't know about it...) :D
My only point is that my theorycraft actually hewed pretty closely to what she fundamentally cared about and sought after, and she intentionally avoided feats that were, at the basic level, trap options that would (in one case especially) actively harm her character.
If I'd been in her position, but actually been a drow noble, still finding myself (mostly) just as effective, I could have used those three feats for other things that could round out my character and the party in other interesting ways - whether it's skill focus, or permitting me an unusual combat style to switch things up every once in a while, those three feats could be useful or cool, even if not used to optimize.
That said, she had fun. Everyone did. That's awesome!
I am really curious how you guys worked around the light blindness thing, though! I'm always interested to see how that sussed itself out in actual play (as it's always been a real killer for ours)!
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...lots of good stuff.... I am curious how you all got around the light blindness, though! Did she simply eat the penalties, or did she actually trade darkvision/light blindness for lowlight vision? (Or did she take the old 3.5 feat Daylight Adaptation?)
She just ate the penalty. Made one or two of the later fights downright nasty. But I don't see it as as crippling as you might think:
Light Blindness: Abrupt exposure to bright light blinds drow for 1 round; on subsequent rounds, they are dazzled as long as they remain in the affected area.
Dazzled: The creature is unable to see well because of overstimulation of the eyes. A dazzled creature takes a –1 penalty on attack rolls and sight-based Perception checks.
In other words, for the *very rare* creatures in RotRL that used bright light, she was blind for a round and suffered a -1 penalty in subsequent rounds. Really not game-changing, except...
Most bad guys in APs use Darkness rather than Daylight, so it's not as significant as you'd think.
EDIT: And the group was paladin/barbarian/bard/sorcerer for a really nasty combination. I was surprised at how effective it was, and when she was blind the barbarian could tank and soak up some hits. By 17th level he was well over 300 HP while raging...
EDIT 2: Perhaps that's the thing: The player came up with the concept from the whole, "Is a paladin required to kill evil babies?" thread. She was wondering what would happen if a paladin of redemption (e.g. Sarenrae) found a drow baby for whom worship of his goddess would be out-and-out painful. "Now stare into the light!" "But it hurts!" "That's Sarenrae's love for you!"
She ran with that concept, so I had *NO* desire to penalize her for it. I ran the AP as-written, with the prepped spells directly from the book, and guess what? The bad guys didn't load up on light-based spells. I still had 5 PC deaths and two near-TPKs (including one that required minor divine intervention), so it was a fun, challenging AP for them.
I still rate RotRL as the best campaign from any publisher in any system I've ever played in or run.
Yeah, we had fun.