A Rise of the Runelords "Let's Play" - a Game the Whole Community can Play


Recruitment

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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

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Hey, folks. So - if you're reading this thread for the first time and the game is already underway, you are absolutely free to hop over to the discussion thread and begin contributing right now; anyone can join this game at any time. We're always in "recruitment."

For all the rest of us... here's the idea. What if we all sit down and have ourselves a Rise of the Runelords: Anniversary Edition "Let's Play?" For those of you not familiar with the Let's Play phenomenon: basically one "host" will run a game that a large crowd of participants can have impact over. Or, in this case, full (albiet collective) hive-mind autonomy over.

We'll build one party of four adventurers. Anyone who can post can play - but not by adding their own character to the party. Instead, players (that's you) will discuss and vote on actions that the characters should take over in the discussion thread, and the host (that's me) will execute those actions a couple times each day in the gameplay thread. No one player will control any one character; instead, everyone will vote or deliberate together on the actions that the party should take. The host (me, again) will thereafter simply execute those actions in the gameplay thread (round-by-round, turn-by-turn, or scene-by-scene, as appropriate), based on the popularity of voted-in actions. Then, you (the players) will begin discussing, voting, and deliberating again on what actions to take next, in response.

The game will never end because this-or-that player quits, disappears, or gets bored. The GM (me) only has to post a couple times a day, whenever he (I) has the time, and never has to wait for players or chase errant participants down. We, as a community, could actually complete a play-by-post campaign, start to finish. Shock! Awe!

Dedicated players can see the whole campaign through, and casual participants can come and go as they please. Interested parties in our little experiment can simply spectate, if they choose - everyone will be welcome in the discussion thread, always.

I figure we can build the party right here in the discussion thread.

Here are my parameters:

+ Rise of the Runelords characters begin at 1st level.
+ Characters are built with a "heroic" 20 point-buy.
+ Characters receive maximum starting gold at 1st level.
+ Characters may be of any alignment.
+ Characters will receive "high average" hp at each level after 1st, as described in the Pathfinder Society play rules.
+ All core races, plus all featured and uncommon races from the Advanced Race Guide, are allowed.
+ All core classes, plus all base, hybrid, and alternate classes from the Advanced Player's Guide, Advanced Class Guide, Ultimate Combat, and Ultimate Magic, are allowed.
+ All character options (feats, spells, archetypes, etc.) from the Core Rulebook, Advanced Player's Guide, Advanced Race Guide, Advanced Class Guide, Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Equipment, Ultimate Campaign, the Bestiaries, and the GameMaster's Guide are allowed (all of which is available for browsing at the PFRPG reference document and at the d20PFSRD).
+ All character options from the Inner Sea World Guide (but not from other campaign-specific sources, Golarion or otherwise) are allowed.
+ Characters must possess one campaign trait from the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition Player's Guide (a free download), and one campaign trait from one of the sources mentioned above.

Disclaimer:
Yes, I'm the founder and lead developer for Abandoned Arts (a medium-sized third-party publisher). No, third-party content (including ours) isn't available; not everyone enjoys it, or has equal access to it.

As for gameplay and hosting conventions, here are my thoughts for campaign rules as a whole:

+ No real houserules; we'll run a nice, simple RAW/RAI game.
+ The campaign will be run pretty by-the-book as far as the AP goes.
+ All Golarion-specific conventions are in full effect, including all assumptions about firearms and the way that starting languages are assigned to human characters.
+ The official FAQ is in full effect.
+ If you've played or read Rise of the Runelords before, try to keep meta-knowledge from spoiling things for others, or from impacting your in-game decisions too much. RotR veterans are absolutely welcome, though.
+ Occult Adventures is out; I like psychic, occult, and psionic characters just fine... I'm just shamefully under-educated about those classes so far. Also, I don't want to deal with a mid-game conversion once the hardback comes out. Next time around, though!
+ Everybody have fun; nobody be a dick.

If all of the above sounds good to you, then lets play some Rise of the Runelords. We can build the party right here in the recruitment thread. I strongly suggest that we take it one character at a time, and one aspect at a time (a class, or a race, or a role, or a party theme, or a roleplaying concept; however you folks choose to go about it). You can talk, vote, conceptualize, and strategize. You can start with a race/class suggestion, or a concept/backstory combo, or a full build. However you take it, I'll start "locking in" ideas as votes for this-or-that aspect of each character start adding up and opinions start trickling in... and - little-by-little - we'll build a party.

Anyone on board? Anyone interested? If so; let's play a "let's play" of the Rise of the Runelords: Anniversary Edition. Get started!


Since this is the beginning, do we start by posting chars?

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

That's the idea (sort of).

Abandoned Arts wrote:
We can build the party right here in the recruitment thread. I strongly suggest that we take it one character at a time, and one aspect at a time (a class, or a race, or a role, or a party theme, or a roleplaying concept; however you folks choose to go about it). You can talk, vote, conceptualize, and strategize. You can start with a race/class suggestion, or a concept/backstory combo, or a full build. However you take it, I'll start "locking in" ideas as votes for this-or-that aspect of each character start adding up and opinions start trickling in... and - little-by-little - we'll build a party.

Basically, the community of players can start by suggesting concepts ("How about a saccharine-sweet but evil-aligned bard?"), or race/class/role combos ("How about a Dex-y, Finesse-y, scout-y paladin going for shadowdancer?"), or general builds or ideas ("How about a grappling Str-based monk?"), or whatever else you like. It could even be as simple an idea as "I really want a grippli in the party." As votes start to accumulate, the host (that's me) will "lock in" the most popular ideas and you folks can nail down specifics from there (alignment, point-buy array, feats, etc).


Well, I find the Rattling Gulch Gunner to be interesting.


Well, I did make up a Wizard and his Familiar that I was intending for a Rise of the Runelords PbP, but I haven't been able to get into a PbP yet, so here's my start. This happens to be a fully built (and partly future-spec'd) character instead of just a concept, but I certainly have concept in there. I think (although I'm not going to swear) that this character meets all of your specifications, except that he is spec'd for 15 point buy instead of 20 point buy (and choice of trait other than the Campaign Trait is confused by that), but that's easy to fix -- just put the extra points in Charisma and give him the Dangerously Curious UMD trait (which makes it a class skill and leaves it Charisma-based as normal) instead of Pragmatic Activator (which doesn't make it a class skill but makes it Intelligence-based), OR put the extra points in Intelligence and give him Pragmatic Activator (but I think the first option is more interesting even if not as highly optimized).

I know you said no real houserules, but it would be funnier if his cat Familiar got the Garfield/Nermal ability score (and possibly skill) adjustments proposed on the character sheet (linked above). This cat isn't just any cat, but a 15 pound (at least) blob of fat, fur, and claws that is going to be hanging onto his shoulders, that he will be staggering around with until he gets some way to boost his carrying capacity.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

We could make the wizard legal with little trouble, looks like.

So far we've got human wizard (with or without pre-built specs) and ratfolk gunslinger (gulch gunner) ideas on the table.


I kind of want to see an intimidate focused fighter with hurtful and a greatsword.


A Female Kitsune Druid who's animal companion (wolf?) treads her like a younger sister. While he is the older brother. Tries to drag her away if she is talking to guys her age, and grows at the guys.
On the road she rides on his back (Fox Shape feat).

A Kobold Brawler (Strangler or Snakebite Striker) who carries around alchemical coal to blow in peoples faces before she starts a fight.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

Neat; okay, we're up to... let's see... five separate ideas for our first PC.

Everyone is welcome to second (or suggest changes to) one of these existing suggestions, or to submit their own. I'm thinking we lock down this first character concept sometime tomorrow evening, and work out the details by the following day?

Suggestions so far:

A male human wizard with a chubby cat familiar (see above for details);
A ratfolk gunslinger (gulch gunner);
A fighter with a greatsword and an Indimidate-focused build;
A female kitsune druid with a protective animal companion; and
A kobold brawler (strangler or snakebite striker)

For now, players should feel free to "second" or vote on these, make suggestions regarding the above builds, or to continue with new submissions and ideas.


Abandoned Arts wrote:

We could make the wizard legal with little trouble, looks like.

So far we've got human wizard (with or without pre-built specs) and ratfolk gunslinger (gulch gunner) ideas on the table.

Actually, he's a Dhampir (sorry, posted in too much of a hurry last time). Furthermore, the concept was that he's the Slacker Mage that's going to go up against the Greed Mage. (Somewhat unusually but not unheard of for an Undead-tained soul, he is cursed with the Sin of Sloth rather than Gluttony. His cat is cursed with both.) I like to play to and/or against the theme of the Adventure Path; after a long time of desert (and I mean the dry place, not the after-dinner delicacy) of ideas, all of a sudden, this was what I came up with.

Do read the background and personality I wrote up for him, which was what was really the important part, and crunch can be changed (but I did build him with a Drawback and Story Feat tailored to the background and personality -- he wants to overcome his curse, but doesn't yet have a clue of how to do it, and since he is a Thassilonian Specialist, it is actually important to his power.

HOWEVER,

As much as I hate to displace my own concept:

After my last post I suddenly came up with another idea, that I think might be even better for the specific combination of the "Let's Play" group-play stile and Rise of the Runelords, or if you do it in the future, Jade Regent (where something like this is even suggested in a sidebar in the Player's Guide).

Make the Player Characters actually be people of Sandpoint that in a normal play-through of the AP would be NPCs. Right off the bat, I can think of a handful: Ameiko Kaijitsu (also suggested for PC status in the Jade Regent Sidebar, suggested as Bard), Shalelu Andosana (likewise, but suggested as Ranger), Das Korvut (the blacksmith with the dogs, who could be thematically fitting as a Huntmaster Cavalier), and sheriff Belor Hemlock (some type of martial character, but my brain is drawing a blank on just what type at the moment . . . lousy brain).

Thus, Sandpoint would start the AP with NO Sandpoint Heroes, and would have to make them itself.

This has the obvious drawback that the party composition will probably not be optimal (for Jade Regent, that's actually easier to fix with the addition of the other 2 NPC-PCs from the sidebar, Sandru Vhiski and Koya Mvashti -- temporarily set that aside, but I'll get back to it in a moment). But since this is a group playstyle without one character being attached to one player, we have the unique opportunity to relax the requirement that party composition be optimal or that characters be balanced with each other. They would all still be following Rules as Written, but not necessarily all be starting at 1st Level, or even the same level as each other. How about it?

* * * * * * * *

As I mentioned above, this would also work for the same type of non-standard playthrough of Jade Regent. In the case of Jade Regent it would be even easier, since the sidebar "Playing as the NPCs" in the Player's Guide uses the same 4 characters that are supposed to be major NPCs interacting with a more conventional set of player characters, but again for this type of playthrough, we have the advantage that they don't have to be balanced with each other, thus removing the vexing question of how the characters wind up starting all at 1st level, when Koya Mvashti is 60 years old and at least somewhat traveled (and Sandru Vhiski is much younger but already a caravan boss), and Shalelu Andosana was already a quite capable Ranger in Rise of the Runelords, and Ameiko Kaijitsu was also well established in Rise of the Runelords. In this case, careful building could even make the party composed of just these 4 characters semi-optimal: Koya as a Witch (Cartomancer/Hedge Witch archetypes, possibly also using a build like the non-Orc and maybe even Agathion/Scion of Humanity version of the type of build linked in this thread, but lose the Hunter shenanigans; Sandru as a Rogue or some substitute thereof; Shalelu as a Ranger; and Ameiko as a Bard (I'll try not to talk too much about ideas of her being an Alchemist to become the Jade Reagent . . .).

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

A very neat idea, conceptually, but I'd rather not bite off more than I can chew.

Revising the current "candidate" list, however:

A slothful male dhampir wizard with a chubby cat familiar (see above for details);
A ratfolk gunslinger (gulch gunner);
A fighter with a greatsword and an Indimidate-focused build;
A female kitsune druid with a protective animal companion; and
A kobold brawler (strangler or snakebite striker)


I'd like to submit one of the characters that was in my (currently suspended) campaign: a human paladin of Abadar with the Oath of Charity. This particular character is one of the errant sons of the Valdemar clan, recently returned to Sandpoint after training in Magnimar.

In my home game, this guy's Smite Evil has undone several key encounters, while his modified Lay on Hands has been just enough to keep him and the others going.

Another idea that we never really got to see work was what my players like to call a "pinch-hitter", someone good at ranged and close-up work. What we had for that was a halfling ranger with the Horse Lord archetype, fighting from the back of a riding dog. (The player originally wanted a wolf, but I pointed out that the stats were nearly identical.)


I propose a full T3 party. Warpriest, Magus, Hunter, Bard.


Instead of going one by one let's split it up by role (as the designer of the PC imagines it) and pick one for each role.

Arcane
Divine
Skilled
Ranged
Melee
Support
Diplomacy etc.

And of course one character could fill multiple roles. A bard concept could very easily be Arcane/Support/Skill/Diplomacy


I'm kind of intrigued.

While I can see some fun just from the mechanical basis of it, completing the adventure- Twitch plays Pokemon comes to mind-

What I'm also interested in is the RP side of things. It seems silly to have us as a group control what the characters specifically say; It'd get bogged down in competing interpretations. What we could do is give our PCs some goals, fears, etc, and vote on what they would do when certain decisions come up, providing reasons for the decisions which could also be voted on.

For example-

A slothful male dhampir wizard with a chubby cat familiar (see above for details), out to discover the secrets of Sloth Sin Magic
A ratfolk gunslinger (gulch gunner), trying to make his family as shamed as possible
A fighter with a greatsword and an Indimidate-focused build, out to achieve glory and flee the demons of her past

It's a little hard to picture how this would go, but- say the party captures some goblins. We vote to determine whether our fighter wants to let them go or kill them, and on whether he lets them go to spread word of his might or his kindness, or kill them because they cannot be redeemed or because he can't forget his hatred.

With that in mind, I'd like to propose a young dewy-eyed farmboy/girl human paladin of Iomedae who uses a bow, out to do as much good in the world as possible and stay true to the simple values of her childhood. Whether she'll find evil and grey morality, and how s/he'll cope with that, will define hir.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

GM Arkwright wrote:

I'm kind of intrigued.

While I can see some fun just from the mechanical basis of it, completing the adventure- Twitch plays Pokemon comes to mind-

What I'm also interested in is the RP side of things. It seems silly to have us as a group control what the characters specifically say; It'd get bogged down in competing interpretations. What we could do is give our PCs some goals, fears, etc, and vote on what they would do when certain decisions come up, providing reasons for the decisions which could also be voted on.

For example-

A slothful male dhampir wizard with a chubby cat familiar (see above for details), out to discover the secrets of Sloth Sin Magic
A ratfolk gunslinger (gulch gunner), trying to make his family as shamed as possible
A fighter with a greatsword and an Indimidate-focused build, out to achieve glory and flee the demons of her past

It's a little hard to picture how this would go, but- say the party captures some goblins. We vote to determine whether our fighter wants to let them go or kill them, and on whether he lets them go to spread word of his might or his kindness, or kill them because they cannot be redeemed or because he can't forget his hatred.

With that in mind, I'd like to propose a young dewy-eyed farmboy/girl human paladin of Iomedae who uses a bow, out to do as much good in the world as possible and stay true to the simple values of her childhood. Whether she'll find evil and grey morality, and how s/he'll cope with that, will define hir.

Twitch Plays Pokemon (praise the Helix; all glory be unto Him) was a large part of what I had in mind, yeah. Hopefully Fans Play Pathfinder will be a lot more coherent and cooperative, though.

As for roleplaying, I assumed much the same that you did; that a large part of the fun (and part of the curiosity-factor of this experiment) would come from a group of semi-strangers trying to arrive at what constitutes "in-character."

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

Okay, two things, folks.

1.) A quick revision of the current "candidate" list:

A slothful male dhampir wizard with a chubby cat familiar;
A ratfolk gunslinger (gulch gunner archetype);
A fighter with a greatsword, the Hurtful feat, and an Indimidate-focused build;
A female kitsune druid with a protective, "big brother" kind of animal companion;
A kobold brawler (strangler or snakebite striker);
A human paladin (oathbound archetype, with the Oath of Charity) of Abadar;
A "T3" class: warpriest, magus, hunter, or bard; or
A youthful, idealistic paladin of Iomedae with an archery knack.

2.) Let's start voting for one of the above ideas.

It seems like there have been a lot of submissions, but not a lot of votes (read: zero) are being cast for any single submission. At this point, I'd like to put a freeze on new submissions until we can agree on one of the above ideas. Sound good?

Interested parties: let's start voting. Also, tell a friend! Drive traffic to the thread. Get the community on board. It won't take a lot of players to make the "Twitch/LP" community effort thing work, but it will take more than a handuful.

I'll tally up shows of interest around this time tomorrow, and from there we can start nailing down details on our first PC and start brainstorming about the second one.


I vote for the kitsune druid.

This looks interesting :D I hope it catches hold.


Depending on how many are interested, I'd suggest that we can't vote for our own suggestions.

With that in mind, I'll vote for the slothful wizard.


Ratfolk gunslinger.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

GM Arkwright wrote:

Depending on how many are interested, I'd suggest that we can't vote for our own suggestions.

With that in mind, I'll vote for the slothful wizard.

I should have stated so explicitly, but yes to this.


Kitsune druid for the win...


I'd vote for the idealistic archer paladin


Kitsune druid


_ wrote:
I'd like to submit one of the characters that was in my (currently suspended) campaign: a human paladin of Abadar with the Oath of Charity. {. . .}

Isn't Oath of Charity antithetical to Abadar? Or is this supposed to be a heretical Paladin?

Abandoned Arts wrote:
A very neat idea, conceptually, but I'd rather not bite off more than I can chew.

Okay, but keep it in mind for when you do this for Jade Regent?

Abandoned Arts wrote:

Okay, two things, folks.

1.) A quick revision of the current "candidate" list:

A slothful male dhampir wizard with a chubby cat familiar;

Slight revision to this: A slothful male dhampir wizard with a chubby and even more slothful and gluttonous cat familiar

Abandoned Arts wrote:

A ratfolk gunslinger (gulch gunner archetype);

A fighter with a greatsword, the Hurtful feat, and an Indimidate-focused build;

Indimidate? Okay, now I'm intrigued . . . is this supposed to be like Saint Cuthbert? Pathfinder does have some abilities that martial characters can get that cause ability damage (if I remember correctly, some restricted to certain ability scores, and some not) to the target, although I forgot where to find them off the top of my head, and they may require a bit of multiclassing to get.

Abandoned Arts wrote:

A female kitsune druid with a protective, "big brother" kind of animal companion;

A kobold brawler (strangler or snakebite striker);
A human paladin (oathbound archetype, with the Oath of Charity) of Abadar;
A "T3" class: warpriest, magus, hunter, or bard; or
A youthful, idealistic paladin of Iomedae with an archery knack.

2.) Let's start voting for one of the above ideas. {. . .}

Okay, here are my votes (keeping in mind I can't vote for my submission) -- they come in 2 conditional pairs:

Pair #1
Conditional +1 for A fighter with a greatsword, the Hurtful feat, and an Indimidate-focused build if you can find the proper ability damaging ability;
Conditional +1 for A ratfolk gunslinger (gulch gunner archetype) if the above ability damaging ability is not found or if no Rogue/Ninja-equivalent character is found (this comes closest);

Pair #2
Conditional +1 for A human paladin (oathbound archetype, with the Oath of Charity) of Abadar if said Paladin is a heretic;
Conditional +1 for A youthful, idealistic paladin of Iomedae with an archery knack if the condition for the other Paladin is not met;

Would like to +1 for a Rogue/Ninja-like character, but none has been submitted (unless I missed someone's post, sorry; otherwise the Gulch Gunner comes closest); not submitting one myself, because I haven't yet gone through the thought process myself of building the backstory for one, never mind building the mechanics (I need to do both parts of this in the future for potential use in Shattered Star, but not now).


Also add vote (separately from the above conditional pairs):

+1 for A female kitsune druid with a protective, "big brother" kind of animal companion

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

Alright, folks.

The kitsune druid and her "big brother" animal companion have won out for the slot of our first PC by a landslide.

Next up, we're going to tackle two separate steps.

1.) We need to make several choices for our druid:
> a.) Will she be an actual kid? As in: will she use the young template?
> c.) How will we spend her 20-point buy?
> d.) Our druid gets one feat. What will it be?
> e.) Will we use an archetype?
> e.) How will she assign her skill points? So that we can have this discussion before assigning an Int score, let's talk about skill choices in order of importance to us. And, lastly;
> f.) What kind of animal companion should we select? A wolf was suggested, but not decided on.

We also need to select a concept for our second PC. I'm going to eliminate ALL OTHER VOTES so far and start over with a new poll. We are now also WELCOMING all new character concepts.

2.) What shall our second PC be like?
> a.) Submit new concepts; or
> b.) Vote for existing ones. Remember, all previous votes are now void.


I think we should use the young template for the druid.
For stats, put lots into WIS
for an archetype, I would suggest the Mooncaller Archetype for fox/wolf flavor
The animal companion should be a wolf.

For one of the characters, I would like to see a small sized (any race that is small) Barbarian(Titian Mauler) that effectively dual wields great swords or other two-handed weapons, and is constantly being dwarfed and out-shone by his taller allies(little-man syndrome).


1. Kitsune Druid
>a. I vote she uses the young template.
>c. I'll let people more knowledgeable than me about druids figure out exact scores.
>d. Same as above.
>e. I vote none.
>e. Fly, handle animal, knowledge (nature), perception, spellcraft, and survival as important skills? She won't get that many skill points, of course, but those look useful.
>f. A wolf, of course!

1. New Guy
>a. I think we should have a lecherous bard on the party. It would make for great interactions between the bard, the young druid, and the protective wolf.

As we move on to the other characters, my opinion is that we should have the small titan mauler with the "short" temper (or some such like that) who is very aware that he is short, and the dewy eyed farmgirl paladin archer. That would make for some interesting party interactions :P


F) it must be a wolf, that is a necessity, any other animal for "big brother" would not work.


1)
a- No young template.
b- Str 8, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 17, Cha 12; after racial modifiers
c- Spell focus: Conjuration
d- Lion Shaman
e- Points in Perception, Sense Motive, Survival, Ride, Diplomacy
f- Big Cat (Lion)
2)
Sloth wizard!


Oh, and I vote for the lecherous bard for the second character, the team needs to have conflict, as conflict + Pathfinder geeks = Comedic gold.

Silver Crusade

I throw into the a swashbuckling halfling with an attitude too but. very dextrous, very fast, very posh, but very rough n rowdy. three musketeerish.


1)
a- Young would be hard on her. SO I vote no on young. It would lower both her fighting and casting stats (Str, Wis). It would give even more Dex. So her AC would be high.
Young Kitsune has:
-4 Str
+4 Dex
-2 Con
-2 Wis

b: If we do young or not, It would be nice to put 2 points into Str.
I will put this out there for people to look at:
Str 12 |Race (10) | Young (8)
Dex 13 |Race (15) | Young (17)
Con 12 |Race (12) | Young (10)
Int 12 |Race (12) | Young (12)
Wis 16 |Race (16) | Young (14)
Cha 11 |Race (13) | Young (13)

Str (2 points):Low Str can be hard on carrying anything.
Dex (3 points): AC and opens her for range attacks or weapon finesse when not casting.
Con (2 points): Hit points and fort saves. Con is good.
Int (2 points): 1 more skill point.
Wisdom (10 points): Casting stat.
Cha (1 point): This fits with the "big brother" needs to protect her (to likable sister) and it opens up a Kitsune feat (Fox Shape) after level 3 (needs BAB +3). That feat is both useful (scouting and hiding) and flavorful (Fox sleeping on her bothers back).

C- If she is going to do a lot of summoning: Spell focus: Conjuration.
But I like the kitsune flavor stuff. So Realistic Likeness (Kitsune). Allows her to look like anyone she meets.

D- Mooncaller would give darkvison to a kitsune. The last ability it removes is 90% the feat above.

E- Bluff, Disguise, stealth, knowledge (nature), perception, spellcraft


Abandoned Arts wrote:

Alright, folks.

The kitsune druid and her "big brother" animal companion have won out for the slot of our first PC by a landslide.

Next up, we're going to tackle two separate steps.

1.) We need to make several choices for our druid:
> a.) Will she be an actual kid? As in: will she use the young template?

This fits with the concept of the animal companion thinking of itself as a big brother, but see below.

Abandoned Arts wrote:
> c.) How will we spend her 20-point buy?

I wouldn't recommend throwing everything into Wisdom all at once -- it needs to be the primary stat, but I hate dumping anything else unless thematically called for (actually, semi-dumping Strength might be thematically called for, but Kitsune have a penalty there anyway). This is especially true since she is going to be young, so let the Wisdom build up with experience (that is, put all level-based Ability Score increases into Wisdom).

EDIT: Forgot that Young character template drops Wisdom, so need to invest more to compensate.

Abandoned Arts wrote:
> d.) Our druid gets one feat. What will it be?

Depends. If she is going to be a face character, Realistic Likeness is a good choice, even though it isn't the strongest thing for combat.

Abandoned Arts wrote:
> e.) Will we use an archetype?

Depends. The idea of a Totem Druid (listed as {Whatever_Animal} Shaman) is appealing, and automatically has to match the Animal Companion, but beware that some of the Totem Druids don't work right with Rules as Written, because they forgot to ensure that Wildshape gives you all of the abilities that your totem animal has (because Wildshape is based upon Beast Shape, which doesn't give you everything), and Totemic Summons initially seems to complement the archetype nicely, but in several cases becomes obsolete. See this guide section.

Abandoned Arts wrote:
> e.) How will she assign her skill points? So that we can have this discussion before assigning an Int score, let's talk about skill choices in order of importance to us.

Must-have skills (keep putting points into them): Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge(Nature), Perception, Survival.

Eventual must-have skills (keep putting points into them, but not necessarily first): Spellcraft

One point wonders: Climb, Knowledge(Geography), Ride, Swim.

Optional skills: Depends -- do we want her to be a party face (not necessarily the only one)? Kitsune do lend themselves to this, but Druids do not have face skills (except Handle Animal, which is must-have anyway) as class skills, so if you want this, you need a trait to give her face skill bonuses and a face skill in class. Potentially add Stealth, even though this is also not a class skill.

Also, add what Hokina said above.

Abandoned Arts wrote:

And, lastly;

> f.) What kind of animal companion should we select? A wolf was suggested, but not decided on.

If you go with a Totem Druid, this choice is made for you. Also see the same guide section linked above.

Abandoned Arts wrote:

We also need to select a concept for our second PC. I'm going to eliminate ALL OTHER VOTES so far and start over with a new poll. We are now also WELCOMING all new character concepts.

2.) What shall our second PC be like?
> a.) Submit new concepts;

A Tower Shieldadin. This has several varieties; an alternative not listed therein is to use a normal shield instead of a tower shield and then use 3 or 4 levels of Phalanx Soldier instead of 5 or 6 levels of Tower Shield Specialist (gives less shield bonus to the party, but lets you use spear-like polearms one-handed).

Abandoned Arts wrote:

or

> b.) Vote for existing ones. Remember, all previous votes are now void.

+1 for swashbuckling halfling with an attitude too but. very dextrous, very fast, very posh, but very rough n rowdy. three musketeerish (from rorek55). Use the Mouser archetype of Swashbuckler (especially good at getting in enemies' faces) and eventually (don't get it first) the Risky Striker feat (but Fencing Grace comes before this). It looks like you can even combine the Mouser and Musketeer archetypes, if you want an actual Musketeer (who would then be a good switch-hitter between gunslinging and in-your-face melee). This is also your party face if you don't want that on the Kitsune Druid (or maybe even if you do -- face skills are diverse enough that they could specialize in different ones, like this character specializes in Bluff and Intimidate, while the Druid specializes in Diplomacy). Got to have the Fleet of Foot alternate racial trait, of course.

I also resubmit my votes for the following conditional pair:
Conditional +1 for A human paladin (oathbound archetype, with the Oath of Charity) of Abadar if said Paladin is a heretic;
Conditional +1 for A youthful, idealistic paladin of Iomedae with an archery knack if the condition for the other Paladin is not met


Dotting, I love this. I'm also voting for the swashbuckling halfling

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

Votes for our second PC are looking pretty close.

I'll do some tallying this evening. In the meantime, I want to be clear to everyone that THIS template is the one I'm referring to when I talk about the young template. We generally won't be using subsystems from Ultimate Campaign, and especially not the bummeriffic (albiet more realistic) young PC rules.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

Alrighty! The votes for our second PC are as follows, so far:

1 vote for a Small titan mauler with classic "short-guy-with-something-to-prove syndrome"
2 votes for a lecherous bard;
1 vote for a tower shield-focused paladin (extensive build notes linked above); and
3 votes for a cultured, but rough-and-rowdy, "three musketeers-style" swashbuckling halfling

I'm going to close the voting on both the second PC ideas and put together some data for the kitsune druid stats tomorrow night.

Hokina, Arkwright, and UnArcane have contributed some extensive thoughts regarding ability score arrays and feats. Any thoughts on any of these ideas over the others? Or cherry-picking from each?

Any further voting or input for either the druid or the second PC should occur before this time-ish tomorrow evening! At that time, I'll put together and submit for discussion a tenative kitsune druid based on input thus far, as well as "lock in" our second PC concept.

Keep this thread alive until then!


Should we start submitting ideas for a 3rd character, or not just yet? (And then repeat the process for the 3rd character, and then lastly come up with the 4th character using the same cycle?)


Count another vote for the musketeer halfling! Also, when the third character comes around, I think we should have an Analytically inclined, but suave, Peri-Blooded Aasimar Arcanist.


"+1 to the kitsune druid not having the young template.


Young stacks with Advanced for the net gain of +4 mental, +8 dex. No CR change.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

Nyaa wrote:
Young stacks with Advanced for the net gain of +4 mental, +8 dex. No CR change.

*slap*

UnArcaneElection wrote:
Should we start submitting ideas for a 3rd character, or not just yet?

Soon! But not just yet. We'll probably start talking about PC #3 tomorrow night, when I expect the druid to wrap up 100%.

So! The clear winner for the occupant of our second PC slot is the posh-but-rowdy halfling swashbuckler. Before we get into that, though, here's a rundown of our kitsune druid as I interpret it by general consensus so far:

PC #1
female kitsune druid
Str 11, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 12
Skills: 1 Handle Animal, 1 Knowledge (nature), 1 Perception, 1 Spellcraft, 1 Stealth, 1 Survival
Animal Companion: Wolf

I arrived at these ability scores by using Hokina's array, but switching the extra point from Cha 13 to Str 11, for expressed carrying capacity concerns. With the above details cemented, we're going to do two things next:

1.) Put the finishing touches on our druid; and
2.) Nail down some details for our rough-and-rowdy halfling.

So, let's begin.

1.) The Druid
a.) Our druid needs a name, deity (if any), and alignment.
b.) Our druid needs two traits: one from the RotRL player's guide, and one from any other legal source (see the original post). Drawbacks are a no-no.
c.) Opinions on feats are divided between Realistic Likeness and Spell Focus (conjuration). Let's vote on one of these two choices.
d.) Opinions are leaning toward "no archetype" for our kitsune, with suggestions for both mooncaller and wolf totem.

2.) The Swashbuckler
a.) Is the swashbuckler a lady or a fella?
b.) How will we spend his-or-her 20-point buy? (Remember that panache is Charisma-based by default.)
c.) A halfling swashbuckler gets one feat. What will it be? (Remember: swashbucklers do not need to take Weapon Finesse.)
d.) Will we use an archetype? There actually is a (fairly mediocre) musketeer archetype, although I won't be altering the RotRL treasure loadouts to include firearms. Still, nothing stops us from making our own muskets.
e.) How will he-or-she assign her skill points? So that we can have this discussion before assigning an Int score, let's talk about skill choices in order of importance to us. And, lastly;
f.) What two traits should we select?

That's a lot to discuss, so I'll table any discussion of our 3rd PC until the druid is officially finished. I'll check in with you folks once or twice tomorrow. And remember to tell a friend about this thread!


Abandoned Arts wrote:

So, let's begin.

1.) The Druid
a.) Our druid needs a name, deity (if any), and alignment.

Druid's technically don't worship a Deity as a given (Though there's nothing in the rules that say they can't). They do worship the Green Faith though, but its more like an Ideal than anything else.

I vote for the Green Faith Worship and Neutral Good Alignement. I don't know about a name though... come up with something that peeks my interest and I'll vote for it guys.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

Hey guys, more food for thought.

I used HeroLabs to determine the druid's skill points, and just realized that I accepted the default "skill point" choice instead of the "hit point" choice for our druid's favored class. So, in addition to the above, let's determine whether or not we should:

1.) Give up one of our skill points (Handle Animal, Knowledge [nature], Perception, Spellcraft, Stealth, or Survival); or
2.) Take the skill point benefit in lieu of an extra hit point.


... I say skill points are better than hit points unless you guys think the druid would be hurting for them.


Voting for Realistic Likeness on the druid. True neutral or neutral good for alignment.

Voting for swashbuckler fella.

I will do research and such to generate opinions on other points for future posts :)


1.) The Druid
a.) Anneka Oranti of Ustalav, worshipper of the Green Faith, NG
b.) Outlander (Exile), Wisdom in the Flesh (Ride)
c.) Realistic Likeness
d.) No archetype

2.) No idea how to build Swashbucklers, I'll leave that for others.


Abandoned Arts wrote:

{. . .}

So! The clear winner for the occupant of our second PC slot is the posh-but-rowdy halfling swashbuckler. Before we get into that, though, here's a rundown of our kitsune druid as I interpret it by general consensus so far:

PC #1
female kitsune druid
Str 11, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 12
Skills: 1 Handle Animal, 1 Knowledge (nature), 1 Perception, 1 Spellcraft, 1 Stealth, 1 Survival
Animal Companion: Wolf

Could I recommend exchanging the rank of Spellcraft for a rank of Heal? Thematically at least, a beginning Druid really ought to have this for the benefit of her Animal Companion. The Spellcraft can come later as she gains experience (as early as 2nd level).

Abandoned Arts (inserted from later post) wrote:

{. . .} So, in addition to the above, let's determine whether or not we should:

1.) Give up one of our skill points (Handle Animal, Knowledge [nature], Perception, Spellcraft, Stealth, or Survival); or
2.) Take the skill point benefit in lieu of an extra hit point.

Looks like she needs the skill point, at least to start out with. (You COULD switch at later levels, but probably won't want to.)

Abandoned Arts wrote:

{. . .}

1.) The Druid
a.) Our druid needs a name, deity (if any), and alignment.

I'm currently terrible with Kitsune names (and no, I'm not going to just pull one out of the Kitsune page), but I would stick my neck out for a non-standard choice of deity for the Druid: Shelyn (from considering the Druid's pseudo-sibling relation with the Animal Companion) and/or Desna (since this Druid is wondering around while awfully young). Also, +1 for Neutral Good alignment (would say also Chaotic Good, but unfortunately Rules as Written doesn't let Druids do this even if they worship a corner alignment deity).

Abandoned Arts wrote:
b.) Our druid needs two traits: one from the RotRL player's guide, and one from any other legal source (see the original post). Drawbacks are a no-no.

Campaign Trait: Aargh. Rise of the Runelords has so many of these, and yet none of them fit particularly well with our Druid. I feel a weak preference for Friends and Enemies or Sandpoint Faithful (not a very strong trait overall, but the extra bit of healing may alleviate not having the extra Hit Point per level), or Student of Faith (although the +1 on DC of Channeled Energy gets wasted).

Other Trait (Regional): Highlander (Hills and Mountains). This gives +1 to Stealth, or +2 in hilly or rocky areas, and it becomes a class skill that our particular Druid needs but by default doesn't have in class.

(By the way, banning drawbacks auto-bans the Dhampir Wizard I had submitted earlier, unless rebuilt.)

Abandoned Arts wrote:
b.) c.) Opinions on feats are divided between Realistic Likeness and Spell Focus (conjuration). Let's vote on one of these two choices.

Depends upon whether you want to go for the summoning feat tree right away, which is not bad but is expensive, or do something else first (keep in mind that early summons won't last very long anyway). As a matter of our Druid surviving in an area where most people are probably going to be suspicious of anyone that doesn't look like a member of a core race (and maybe even some people who do), I would give the nod to Realistic Likeness.

Abandoned Arts wrote:
d.) Opinions are leaning toward "no archetype" for our kitsune, with suggestions for both mooncaller and wolf totem.

I wouldn't mind Wolf Totem as long as you're careful of the pitfalls warned about in the Druid guide that I linked earlier, but Core (no archetype) Druid is fine too.

Abandoned Arts wrote:

2.) The Swashbuckler

a.) Is the swashbuckler a lady or a fella?

I lean towards being non-traditional and having the Swashbuckler be female (which is not necessarily the same as being a lady . . . :-) ).

Abandoned Arts wrote:
b.) How will we spend his-or-her 20-point buy? (Remember that panache is Charisma-based by default.)

I haven't put a lot of thought myself into building a Swashbuckler, but I DID put a lot of thought into building a sort of Swashbuckly Oracle (without dipping), so feel free to steal her stats, keeping in mind that you will be applying somewhat different bonuses/penalties due to being Kitsune and due to being young. (Note: The linked character is intended for Second Darkness, but Rise of the Runelords is before Second Darkness -- 2 Adventure Paths before, in fact -- and still in Varisia, so DON'T vote to put her in here, as that will create setting/continuity problems.)

In addition, be sure to choose the Fleet-of-Foot Halfling alternate racial trait. You DON'T want a Swashbuckler to be slow.

Abandoned Arts wrote:
c.) A halfling swashbuckler gets one feat. What will it be? (Remember: swashbucklers do not need to take Weapon Finesse.)

You might want to start out with Weapon Focus with whatever melee weapon the Swashbuckler is going to use most, since it is the prerequisite for Fencing Grace (Rapier) or Slashing Grace (one-handed slashing weapons), unless you are going with a Scimitar -- Dervish Dance has as its prerequisite 2 ranks of Perform(Dance) instead of Weapon Focus(Scimitar). Note that Slashing Grace lets you do some broken things (with weapons that you can get Dex-to-Damage but not Dex-to-Hit with) and brokenly doesn't let you do some things (like get Dex-to-Damage with Light weapons), so choose wisely to avoid this.

However, if more than 2 traits are needed to substitute for not having a Rogue/Ninja or substitute thereof (see below), then the first feat should be Additional Traits instead. If this is needed, note that Dervish Dance doesn't require Weapon Focus, but can't be gotten at first level because it requires 2 ranks of Perform(Dance) (which would worsen Skill starvation, but only temporarily, since it never needs more than 2 ranks). The Whirling Dervish archetype of Swashbuckler gets you free Dervish Dance at 4th level, but doesn't fit thematically so well with our character concept; that said, it isn't a bad Swashbuckler archetype, except that you hurt for not being able to combine it with Mouser (really ouch) or any other Swashbuckler archetype, and it isn't as dip-friendly (which you may not care about).

Abandoned Arts wrote:
d.) Will we use an archetype? There actually is a (fairly mediocre) musketeer archetype, although I won't be altering the RotRL treasure loadouts to include firearms. Still, nothing stops us from making our own muskets.

I recommend Mouser for any Swashbuckler that is both Small and in-your-face (which most will be). You can even combine this with Musketeer if you want, although the Sandpoint vicinity might be the wrong environment for obtaining and repairing firearms without a long journey. Alternatively, you could combine this with Mysterious Avenger, although this has a different flavor from the brash in-your-face character we're talking about, and you can't combine Mysterious Avenger with Musketeer. So overall I would vote for Mouser without combining with either of the other 2 archetypes. Note that Mouser is VERY dip-friendly (perhaps even more than Swashbuckler in general) if you want to multiclass.

Abandoned Arts wrote:
e.) How will he-or-she assign her skill points? So that we can have this discussion before assigning an Int score, let's talk about skill choices in order of importance to us.

Must-have for our brash in-your-face Swashbuckler (Class Skills except as noted): Acrobatics, Bluff, Intimidate, Knowledge(Local) (if from Sandpoint vicinity), Perform(Dance) (only if going Dervish Dance, and only ever need 2 ranks of it), Sleight of Hand.

Important, but won't fit in the same level with the above without excessive pumping of Intelligence, so add after getting a bit of experience: Climb, Disable Device (not Class without a Trait or a dip) (unless we get a Rogue substitute later), Escape Artist, Perception, Sense Motive, Use Magic Device (not Class without a Trait or a dip).

Abandoned Arts wrote:
f.) What two traits should we select?

Note: May need to be four traits -- see Additional Traits feat as possible first feat -- gets you two more Traits without needing a Drawback (other than the implicit drawback of delaying your acquisition of Combat Feats UNLESS you go Scimitar/Dervish Dance).

Campaign: Brash In-Your-Face Swashbuckler? Got to be Thrill Seeker.

Other Trait if we have a Rogue/Ninja or substitute thereof, or if both of the other traits below are chosen using Additional Traits and thereby a trait is left over: Reactionary (Combat Trait) -- gives better Initiative, and potentially has good thematic fit, too.

Other Traits if we DON'T have a Rogue/Ninja or substitute thereof (consider the Additional Traits feat as a means of getting both, which also allows retaining the above non-Campaign trait): Dangerously Curious (Magic Trait), to get Use Magic Device in class, and thematically fitting, too; or Vagabond Child (Regional Trait, Urban), to get Disable Device in class. If both traits are needed, use Additional Traits. Otherwise, if it's one or the other, Use Magic Device probably gets the nod for slightly better thematic fit, although both have a pretty good thematic fit.

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

Things we still need:

1.) The Druid
a.) Our druid needs a name, deity (if any), and alignment.
No suggestions yet. If nobody is terribly concerned with names, I'll choose one from among the ARG suggestions, no biggie.

b.) Our druid needs two traits: one from the RotRL player's guide, and one from any other legal source (see the original post). Drawbacks are a no-no.
We have suggestions for Outlander (Exile) and Wisdom in the Flesh (Ride), or for Highlander and either Friends and Enemies, Sandpoint Faithful, or Student of Faith.

c.) Opinions on feats are divided between Realistic Likeness and Spell Focus (conjuration).
Realistic Likeness is the clear winner, here.

2.) The Swashbuckler
a.) Is the swashbuckler a lady or a fella?
So far, one vote for lady and one vote for fella.

b.) How will we spend his-or-her 20-point buy? (Remember that panache is Charisma-based by default.)
No hard suggestions here, although UnArcane's thoughts lean toward strong Dex and Cha (in that order), with a little Con and Int.

c.) A halfling swashbuckler gets one feat. What will it be?
Only one suggestion here so far; see UnArcane's thoughts, above.

d.) Will we use an archetype?
One recommendation for Mouser, so far (a pretty great archetype, in my opinion, for Small-sized swashbucklers).

e.) How will he-or-she assign her skill points?
Suggestions have been submitted for Acrobatics, Bluff, Intimidate, Knowledge(local), and Sleight of Hand. Also, Perform (dance), in case we want to take Dervish Dance later.

And, lastly;

f.) What two traits should we select?
Suggestions have been submitted for Thrill Seeker, and either Reactionary (if we plan to have a dedicated rogue/skill-monkey), or Dangerously Curious or Vagabond Child, (if we do not).

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