avr |
a.) Male
b.) Human: Bodyguard
c.) yes, Empiricist.
d.) 14, 14, 12, 16, 8, 10 before racial; add human +2 to intelligence.
e.) Combat Reflexes (I'm imagining a longspear-wielding ex-watch/militia guy here)
f.) for the campaign trait Merchant Family seems amazingly good. There was talk of multiclassing Fighter or something, so Magical Lineage (Investigator) to support that.
g.) Perception, Disable Device (so we can handle traps), Diplomacy, Bluff & Sense Motive (a face needs some in each to avoid problems), Linguistics (face, again), UMD (because we can), and some knowledges (Local, Religion, Nature look good starting out.)
niconorsk |
f.) for the campaign trait Merchant Family seems amazingly good. There was talk of multiclassing Fighter or something, so Magical Lineage (Investigator) to support that.
I suspect you meant Magical knack which helps caster level when multiclassing and not magical lineage which gives cheap metamagic on one spell( not even sure investigators can metamagic? )
In which case, I second that motion
avr |
avr wrote:
f.) for the campaign trait Merchant Family seems amazingly good. There was talk of multiclassing Fighter or something, so Magical Lineage (Investigator) to support that.I suspect you meant Magical knack which helps caster level when multiclassing and not magical lineage which gives cheap metamagic on one spell( not even sure investigators can metamagic? )
In which case, I second that motion
Er, yes. Thanks.
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UnArcaneElection |
It's alive!
Okay, so: investigator it is, for sure.
You know the drill by now:
Building the Investigator
a.) What race will our investigator belong to? If human, what bonus feat do you recommend?
Elf, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, or Human, is good, but if going Human (and maybe even if not), we may first need to dip in something martial to get some martial weapon proficiency, or alternatively pick up a good Exotic Weapon at level 3 (you can't take Exotic Weapon Proficiency at Base Attack Bonus +0 unless you get it as a Bonus Feat, such as awarded to Half-Elf with the Ancestral Weapons alternate racial trait). This is more important than it would normally be (and thus uncharacteristically listed first for each race below), because the party is currently lacking a martial weapons user as well as a Strength-based character. (Note: If going Reach, don't have to start with the best Reach weapon -- can start with a Longspear and then switch later to what you really want, ideally a Fauchard, if you can make one yourself.)
Elf gets you proficiency with Bows and Longswords (and if you dip in a martial class, also the Elven Curve Blade, if you want to go semi-Strength/semi-Dexterity). The ability score bonuses are helpful, although lack of a Strength bonus tends to push towards a Dexterity-based build; Elven Immunities are a good bonus.
Half-Elf (put floating bonus on Strength or Intelligence) gets you proficiency with a martial or exotic weapon if you trade out the Skill Focus (Adaptability) that you would normally get for Ancestral Weapons; Elven Immunities are a good bonus. Unwritten in the Half-Elf entry is what we should probably assume: that the Ancestral Weapon should make sense. Elven Curve Blade is obvious as a weapon from the Elven side of the family. Falcata makes sense if our Investigator hails from or has a family history of trade with Taldor or an adjoining region (it is a Taldan national weapon, and Taldor is accessible to trade by an ocean route). Likewise Aldori Dueling Sword makes sense if our Investigator hails from Brevoy (relation by trade with Brevoy would be harder to pull off due to lack of a sea route). Fauchard is even better than any of these mechanically (I like the idea of AoO fishing with a Reach weapon that has the Trip special quality and a top-tier Critical threat), but I don't know where on Golarion one would be most likely to find Fauchards being used (let alone whether it is accessible to Sandpoint by oceanic trade).
Half-Orc (put floating bonus on Strength or Intelligence) gets you proficiency with falchions and greataxes (both are both good martial weapons with the added bonus that they should be readily available), and you get Darkvision (which can be extended in range if you trade in Orc Ferocity) and get to be more Intimidating than an Orc (which opens up the potential for using Cornugon Smash, although you can't get this until 7th level, and it requires Power Attack, which loses some of its lustre on a 3/4 BAB class, a flaw only partially alleviated by Studied Combat).
Human (put floating bonus on Strength or Intelligence, and possibly put second floating bonus in the other one of these) doesn't get you any weapon proficiencies beyond what the Investigator normally has. Still, the Bonus Feat is nice and can be used to be able to afford taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Falcata or Fauchard) at 3rd level, which is easier to flavor than Ancestral Weapon, since our Investigator could have taken a recent interest in Exotic weapons from anywhere and maybe even figure out how to make one; alternatively, if you want to get really MAD, trade it (and Skilled) out for Dual Talent (+2 to each of 2 ability scores); or if you really want to pump the skills (especially if going Eldritch Heritage) but don't mind waiting a while for it all to come online, trade it for Focused Study (Skill Focus at levels 1, 8, and 16).
b.) What sex will our investigator be?
+1 for balancing the group out, so female -- instead of Sherlock Holmes, think Dana Scully, but adding a lot more hours pumping iron (see below).
c.) Will our investigator use any archetype(s)? My two cents: Empiricist looks good for a really skill-tastic investigator, and mostly only gives up poison use.
Empiricist is good.
d.) How will we spend our 20-point-buy?
The party doesn't yet have anybody who is strong, so let's go for a Strength-based Investigator build (hence the note about pumping iron above) -- we want to be able to two-hand decent weapons to good effect, so pump Strength. We also want good Dexterity to enable Combat Reflexes to do some good. Constitution needs to be good to keep from dying (if Elf, we need to pump it noticeably; otherwise a mild elevation is good enough. Naturally, Intelligence needs to be high for an Investigator. Wisdom is important for Perception, but does not need to be pumped (unless you are a Half-Orc and want Keen Scent) -- just don't dump it. Charisma is important for Bluff and Diplomacy (the latter of which no party member has so far), but does not need to be pumped -- just don't dump it.
Elf (+2 Dex, =2 Con, +2 Int): Str 15 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 15 Wis 10 Cha 10; 1st ability score increase goes to Str; 2nd and 3rd ability score increases go to Con; the rest go to Int.
Half-Elf, Half-Orc not taking Keen Scent, or normal Human (+2 on Str): Str 16 Dex 15 Con 13 Int 15 Wis 10 Cha 10; 1st ability score increase goes to Dex; 2nd ability score increase goes to Con; the rest go to Int.
Half-Orc taking Keen Scent (+2 on Str): Str 16 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 13 Cha 10; 1st 2 ability score increases go to Str; the rest go to Int.
Human taking Dual Talent (+2 on Str, +2 on Dex): Str 17 Dex 17 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 8 Cha 8 (unfortunately have to semi-dump to get full benefit of this); 1st ability score increase goes to Str or Dex; 2nd ability score goes to Dex or Str; the rest go to Int.
e.) We (probably) have only one feat to spend. What'll it be?
Combat Reflexes, especially if we are going to go AoO fishing; however, if going Half-Orc, get Keen Scent first.
f.) Which two traits should we select?
None of the Campaign Traits that are good for us are particularly friendly to being from somewhere else, but if we want our Investigator to have trade access to other regions, Merchant Family can work for us.
For the other trait, if we're willing to have our Investigator worship Torag, Defensive Strategist (Religion Trait) works well, almost getting you Uncanny Dodge in a trait. Doesn't fit with Elf, though (in that case, see below for alternatives); on the other hand, it DOES fit thematically with crafting your own exotic weapon (no mechanical connection with this, but Torag likes crafting), which may be important because in a very small town like Sandpoint you may be unable to buy a replacement for your Exotic weapon if something happens to it (and even with Merchant Family connections, you don't want to have to wait for one to arrive mail-order).
If going Elf, we have other good choices: Forlorn helps shore up our lousy Fortitude save (+1); or Warrior of Old gets us +2 Initiative.
g.) In order of priority, what skills are important to our investigator? HINT: Nobody has Diplomacy so far!
We get 6 + IntMod per level without considering FCB (add 1 more if Human, unless going Dual Talent), and IntMod is +2 (for total 8), so:
Bluff (if not Half-Orc), Diplomacy, Disable Device, Intimidate (if Half-Orc), Knowledge(Local), Perception, Profession(Merchant)(*), Sense Motive, Stealth. If Human not trading out Skilled, add Craft(Weapons) if we need to make our own Exotic weapon or Craft(Alchemy) if we don't; otherwise start pumping this at 2nd level.
(*)This is a skill tax for Merchant Family background, and will probably be a 1-pointer; after 1st level replace with Craft(Weapons) or Craft(Alchemy), depending upon whether we need to make our own Exotic weapon.
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UnArcaneElection |
What's with all the talk of crafting? I understood that we were considering an investigator with a dip of something martial later in order to make use of scavenged weapons/armor. And do you really get so much downtime in this adventure that craft (alchemy) is viable?
Dip does do better for using scavenged weapons/armor. The crafting was in case you want to use something exotic and can't find it easily. If we dip in martial (which ideally should be done at first level, to get martial proficiency online sooner and get slightly better hit points), then we don't need the crafting as much (would still be nice but not essential). Note that both Elf and Half-Orc racial proficiencies give you some martial weapons that are reasonably common (Elf is better rounded -- longsword and bows are probably the weapons most likely to show up in this region), but whether you're actually going to find the right ones is really a roll of the dice.
I'm seeing a very even split between human and half-elf. Female, looks like, but female what?
It'll be hard to compile a race-neutral build. If you have NOT specified a race in your deliberations, please do so!
PS: I may or may not be able to post tomorrow. Friday for sure, if not.
I specified a set of 4 choices that give us ability scores that are good for a Strength-based Investigator: Elf, Half-Elf, Half-Orc, and Human (with a couple of varieties of the latter 2). Of these 4, I lean towards Half-Orc because I like Darkvision (standard racial trait that can be improved by trading out Ferocity), Intimidating (standard racial trait), and Keen Scent (Half-Orc/Orc racial feat, ideally taken at 1st level, requires 13 Wisdom, but that's not a bad investment for an Investigator). But I also lean towards Elf because I like Keen Senses and the better rounded weapon proficiencies that might obviate the need for a martial dip.
TL;DR version: Go Half-Orc if dipping martial or crafting your own weapon (and then have a history of escape from slavery in Nidal to trade out Weapon Familiarity for Chain Fighter); go Elf if not dipping.
By the way, I just looked up Investigator Favored Class Bonuses: Human and Half-Orc have ones that are not so great (Human just saves you some gold for learning more extracts; Half-Orc is decent if you are really serious about Crit Fishing, but even so you have better ways to get that); Half-Elf and Elf have good ones (improve your Inspiration rolls or get more Inspiration).
avr |
So that's one vote for human, one for half-elf, and half a vote each for half-orc and elf? I think we need a tie-breaker vote cast, since the average of those is 7/12 human, 1/12 orc and 1/3 elf, which is not a playable race.
I'm not personally convinced by the utility of crafting weapons and I haven't heard either of the people who suggested it make any argument for getting craft (alchemy).
Abandoned Arts RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 |
Half-elf it is. Our half-elven investigator lass so far:
female half-elf investigator (empiricist) 1
Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +2; Senses low-light vision; Perception +6
hp 9 (1d8+1)
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +0; CMB +2; CMD 14
Feats Combat Reflexes, Skill Focus (???)
Traits Merchant Family
Skills Craft (alchemy) +7 (+8 to create alchemical items), Diplomacy +4, Disable Device +5, Knowledge (local) +7, Perception +6, Sense Motive +4, Stealth +6, Use Magic Device +4; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Common, Elven
The above framework is putting favored class benefits toward a +1/4 bonus on inspiration rolls.
I averaged (sort of) her ability scores per the three sets of half-elven investigator suggestions that we've come up with so far. Specifically:
Str 14, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 10; and
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 8, Cha 10; and
Str 16, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 10.
It was pretty clear that we wanted an Int priority, average Cha, and higher Str. I didn't take the "true" average for those three sets, because lots of odd numbers are bad (and point-buy wouldn't allow it), but hopefully the above figures strike a happy medium.
I also spent one skill rank shy of our allowed maximum. I had room for most every suggestion, but someone had suggested Profession (merchant) and someone else had suggested "Knowledges that the wizard didn't take."
So:
Finishing the investigator.
1.) Are we okay with the above ability scores, trait, favored class benefit, and feat?
Also,
2.) There are several major details to hammer out:
a.) Our (female, half-elven) investigator needs a name, a patron deity (if any), and an alignment.
b.) We have one last skill rank to spend. Shall we select Profession (merchant) or a new Knowledge skill? If the latter, which one?
c.) We need to select one more (non-campaign) trait. I've heard a bit of feedback so far, but no real consensus.
d.) Will we take any alternate racial features for the half-elf? If we are keeping Skill Focus, what skill shall we select?
e.) Extracts. We need to select five (5) formulae for our formula book. What'll they be?
f.) Lastly, our investigator needs to select three starting languages (in addition to Common/Taldane and Elven).
niconorsk |
1) Shouldn't disable device be +7(1 Rank, 2 Dex, 3 Class, 1 Trapfinding)
2a) I can get behind LN worshiper of Abadar(definitely has to be lawful)
b) I prefer knowledges as they are more useful, but am ok with Profession(merchant) for flavor
c) Depends if we are dipping fighter or not. I'm inclined to say we should at least take 1 level for weapon and armor proficiencies If so, magical knack.
d) I like Skill Focus and think we should keep it.
The options for the skill are:
- Craft(Alchemy): If we take this, we can craft 2 Alchemist's fire a week at level 1 with take 10. Highly depends on downtime we can expect in the campaign though(have never looked at RotRL so dunno)
- Disable Device - pumping this will pretty much counter all traps we'll face
- Use Magic Device - this skill really only shines at high values
e) I like the idea of reach fighting and lots of AOOs so lets make that even crazier:
Enlarge Person, Long Arm, Shield, Crafter's Fortune, Heightened Awareness
f) Varisian, Dwarven, and something else
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niconorsk |
niconorsk wrote:1) Shouldn't disable device be +7(1 Rank, 2 Dex, 3 Class, 1 Trapfinding)It's a copy/paste from HeroLabs that is probably accounting for the fact that the character doesn't have the proper tools.
Ah ok, that makes sense. I guess thieves' tools should be in our starting equipment then. :)
Benjamazooka |
1) I vote the Str 16, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 10 build
2a)Name - Maraerys Starlight, I second the motion for Abadar, should be LG or LN
b)Profession(Merchant)
c)For background, I think Trade Talk fits well
d)I think we should switch out Skill Focus for Ancestral Arms to get proficiency with a good weapon.
avr |
1) OK
2) a) seconding Azih, though I have no problem with Maraerys as a first name given I'll never have to say it out loud.
b) knowledge (religion). She's faithful to her religion, and it's handy to the party to have someone know a little about undead IME.
c) magical knack
d) UMD: so someone can actually use the scrolls/wands we will surely need for removing ugly conditions eventually.
e) Blend, Crafter's Fortune, Enlarge Person, Expeditious Retreat, Heightened Awareness
f) Varisian, Dwarven and Giant
UnArcaneElection |
I don't have time for a full post (and you know what that means) now, but would Magical Knack work with an Alchemist/Investigator?
Also, I would push for a Good alignment (Lawful Good, if you prefer).
I did take the time to read Trade Talk, and by its own description it doesn't sound like a very good trait (highly situational and not a very high bonus).
UnArcaneElection |
Half-elf it is. Our half-elven investigator lass so far:
female half-elf investigator (empiricist) 1
Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +2; Senses low-light vision; Perception +6
hp 9 (1d8+1)
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 10
Would have liked to have seen more Strength.
Base Atk +0; CMB +2; CMD 14
Feats Combat Reflexes, Skill Focus (???)
Traits Merchant Family
Skills Craft (alchemy) +7 (+8 to create alchemical items), Diplomacy +4, Disable Device +5, Knowledge (local) +7, Perception +6, Sense Motive +4, Stealth +6, Use Magic Device +4; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Common, ElvenThe above framework is putting favored class benefits toward a +1/4 bonus on inspiration rolls.
I averaged (sort of) her ability scores per the three sets of half-elven investigator suggestions that we've come up with so far. Specifically:
Str 14, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 10; and
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 8, Cha 10; and
Str 16, Dex 15, Con 13, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 10.It was pretty clear that we wanted an Int priority, average Cha, and higher Str. I didn't take the "true" average for those three sets, because lots of odd numbers are bad (and point-buy wouldn't allow it), but hopefully the above figures strike a happy medium.
Actually, lots of odd numbers don't necessarily have to be bad. Bad if they STAY that way, but if they get you into territory where further point buy becomes expensive, then they set up prime points for further ability score increases at each 4*n levels. For any score for which you don't have a racial adjustment, the score costs 1 point per point in the range 10 to 13, 2 points per point in the range 14 to 15, 3 points per point in the range 16 to 17, and 4 more points to get 18. So as you go past 13, then past 15, and then past 17, point buy becomes increasingly inefficient. This does not apply to the ability score increases you get at 4*n levels. So if you leave yourself with an odd number starting out, you have a disadantage (due to opportunity cost of the invested odd point) when starting (unless the odd number qualifies you for a feat), but you get an advantage after you add an ability score increase to it. Of course, you don't want to do this TOO much, because most of the ability score increases are a long time coming, but it makes a lot of sense to do it once and a little bit more sense to do it twice (most APs end in the 16+-1 range, so you wouldn't want to do it more than twice; Council of Thieves reportedly ends at 13+-1 and PFS ends at 12, so you wouldn't want to do it more than once for those).
I also spent one skill rank shy of our allowed maximum. I had room for most every suggestion, but someone had suggested Profession (merchant) and someone else had suggested "Knowledges that the wizard didn't take."
So:
Finishing the investigator.
1.) Are we okay with the above ability scores, trait, favored class benefit, and feat?
Also,
2.) There are several major details to hammer out:
a.) Our (female, half-elven) investigator needs a name, a patron deity (if any), and an alignment.
Having the Merchant Family trait in Sandpoint suggests being raised by Humans, and thus having a Human name, or at least a Human family name.
b.) We have one last skill rank to spend. Shall we select Profession (merchant) or a new Knowledge skill? If the latter, which one?
I would suggest Profession(Merchant) or Appraise 1 point to fit the merchant background, and either of these (or both) might even be useful early for helping with buying and selling stuff (and you need just 1 point to activate the Class Skill bonus). Then switch to stuff that is useful later. Note: Our Thassilonian Specialist Wizard already has Use Magic Device. After paying our Merchant Skill Tax, picking up Knowledges that the Druid and Wizard don't have would be good.
c.) We need to select one more (non-campaign) trait. I've heard a bit of feedback so far, but no real consensus.
Resilient. Shore up our Fortitude save.
d.) Will we take any alternate racial features for the half-elf? If we are keeping Skill Focus, what skill shall we select?
According to the Half-Elf guide, the good ones that fit with our Investigator's background (Drow Magic doesn't fit) are Ancestral Weapon (should be Elven Curve Blade since we're not crafting, and it actually has some chance to be available if we lose ours) or Dual Minded (+2 Will save is good, and if we're going to dip martial, we don't need Ancestral Weapon as much).
Keep the standard Multitalented trait (what you want for dipping), but as far as I can tell all of the martial dip classes with the possible exception of Slayer have bad FCBs or ones that take too many levels to use, so go with an extra skill point when dipping.
e.) Extracts. We need to select five (5) formulae for our formula book. What'll they be?
Extracts to get at first level
Adhesive Spittle (battlefield control: Tanglefoot Bag as a spell -- chewing gum is gross, but a lot cheaper than a Tanglefoot Bag, which costs 50 gp each; downside is that the maximum range is shorter, even though the first range increment is longer)
Cure Light Wounds (good in case the Druid runs out)
Enlarge Person (must-have)
Long Arm (must-have if you don't have a Reach weapon, and stacks with Enlarge Person)
Shield (+4 AC without needing to hold a shield, so you can go two-handed, and has free Ghost Touch)
First level extracts to get later
Ant Haul (especially if our Wizard doesn't get it; better on our Investigator than on any of the other party members, due to the way Strength and Carrying Capacity scale)
f.) Lastly, our investigator needs to select three starting languages (in addition to Common/Taldane and Elven).
Dwarven (useful for a merchant almost anywhere), Shoanti (I don't think anybody else has this, and useful for a Sandpoint region merchant anyway), Varisian (what are you doing as a Santpoint region merchant if you don't have this?)
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Maraerys Starlight
half-elf investigator (empiricist) 1
LN Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +2; Senses low-light vision; Perception +6
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +0; CMB +2; CMD 14
Feats Combat Reflexes, Skill Focus (???)
Traits merchant family
Skills Craft (alchemy) +7 (+8 to create alchemical items), Diplomacy +4, Disable Device +5, Knowledge (local) +7, Perception +6, Profession (merchant) +4, Sense Motive +4, Stealth +6, Use Magic Device +4; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Common, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Varisian
SQ alchemy (alchemy crafting +1), elf blood, inspiration (3/day), trapfinding +1
Investigator update. See above. Extracts are done too (the consensus voted up crafter's fortune, enlarge person, heightened awareness, long arm, and shield).
A couple of things left.
1.) So far as I can tell, Magical Knack (the narrow winner) does not improve the caster level of an alchemist or investigator's extracts. Unlike spellcasters, alchemist-type classes don't have caster levels. The alchemy class feature sets a caster level for created extracts, but that's not quite the same thing. I poked around the forums and found a general sense of "RAW says no" out there.
Then again, "as far as I can tell" might not be far enough. If anyone can point to a ruling or FAQ that indicates otherwise, I'd like to be wrong about this one.
Barring that happy event, shall we just go with Trade Talk or Resilient?
2.) The "Ancestral Arms or Skill Focus?" question sort of hangs in the balance on the "are we going to dip into a martial class?" question, so I'll wait for input regarding Magical Knack before nailing that down. If we do keep Skill Focus, it seems like Use Magic Device is the popular choice.
UnArcaneElection |
^No, I think you're right about Magical Knack. At least, make that into **2** "as far as I can tell"s.
For the other traits, let me put it this way:
Resilient gets a blue-purple (the best) rating in Dragonamedrake's Traits guide. Trade Talk doesn't even get rated in there. Yes, I'm willing to trade down in traits for thematic fit (which Trade Talk does), and even pay a skill point tax, but for something as expensive as a trait (literally half a feat), it should do something decent.
With respect to Ancestral Arms, this is still useful if you go martial (Elven Curve Blade is a pretty good weapon). But Skill Focus is useful too. Putting it on Use Magic Device is not bad, but given that our Wizard has it too, putting it on Perception (rated in several guides as the best skill in the game) is also attractive, and fits thematically with an Investigator (particularly one whose Wisdom is not pumped high).
Sedoriku |
Personally I would love to see a character who actually uses a skill focus. The Wizard does have UMD at a +6 right now so our investigator could have a +7 and be slightly better. However, he currently has a +6 for Perception (only one behind the druid) so he could (at least until the druid increases her Wis twice) be a good deal better. Also a +6 at level ten would be better appreciated in Perception than UMD.
niconorsk |
Don't forget that our empiricist will get to use intelligence for his bonus in disable device, perception, umd and sense motive.
I feel we should keep skill focus even if we don't dip in to fighter. I'm inclined towards either disable device or perception as the skill chosen. Very thematic for an investigator.
As for the trait, if magical knack doesn't work, I like the bonus of Resilient but feel like the theme kinda counters merchant family( at least as written ). However Forlorn conveniently gives the same bonus and fits a bit better thematically.
Abandoned Arts RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 |
Any further thoughts about the Skill Focus, then? Use Magic Device is indeed covered by our wizard, but seems the most popular choice at present.
Thoughts on Sedoriku's Perception recommendation, or on Craft (alchemy) or Disable Device? Or is UMD our choice, in light of the dipping situation with Magical Knack off the table?
UnArcaneElection |
{. . .}
As for the trait, if magical knack doesn't work, I like the bonus of Resilient but feel like the theme kinda counters merchant family( at least as written ). However Forlorn conveniently gives the same bonus and fits a bit better thematically.
You're right -- I keep forgetting Half-Elf can take an Elf race trait (except in PFS).
Any further thoughts about the Skill Focus, then? Use Magic Device is indeed covered by our wizard, but seems the most popular choice at present.
Thoughts on Sedoriku's Perception recommendation, or on Craft (alchemy) or Disable Device? Or is UMD our choice, in light of the dipping situation with Magical Knack off the table?
+1 on Perception. Investigators should be Perceptive, even if their Wisdom isn't pumped. Doesn't hurt at all to have two characters with good Perception (especially since one is more likely to roll badly than two), and you never know when you are going to need two perceptive characters in different places at the same time.
Dylos |
I vote the Investigator take Ancestral Arms, and the trait Signature Moves both with the same exotic weapon. An Elven Curve Blade or Falcata would be an excellent choice here, additionally, the weapon could be made of a special material, such as Mithral.
Barring that, Skill Focus: Perception and Heirloom weapon with a martial weapon could work.
Abandoned Arts RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 |
Okay, character creation is almost entirely finished!
Last item of business: equipment and spell preparation.
We will not be tracking food and water (unless you become stranded or cut off from civilization for longer than anticipated, in which case starvation may become a factor). We will also not be tracking mundane ammunition (also unless cut off from civilization unexpectedly, at which point the ammo on the character sheet is all the ammo you have), however a character will need at least one "unit" of ammunition (one case of bolts, one bag of sling stones, etc.) in order to fire a relevant ranged weapon.
Our four PCs and their starting budgets are as follows. All budgets assume maximum starting wealth. Remember that one set of clothing is free:
Anneka Oranti, the kitsune druid, has 120 gp to spend;
Teberus von Goodbrandy, the halfling swashbuckler, has 300 gp to spend;
Zend Haraku, the human conjurer, has 120 gp to spend; and
Maraerys Starlight, the half-elven investigator, has 180 gp to spend.
As for spell preparation:
Anneka Oranti may prepare three orisions and two 1st-level spells from the druid spell list.
Teberus von Goodbrandy may not prepare spells.
Zend Haraku may prepare three cantrips and two 1st-level spells from his spellbook, as well as two 1-st level conjuration spells. These last two spells must be identical copies of the same conjuration spell. Zend may never prepare or cast an evocation or illusion spell. The 1st-level spells in Zend's spellbook are: enlarge person, expeditious retreat, grease, identify, mage armor, summon monster I, and unseen servant.
Maraerys Starlight may prepare two 1st-level extracts from her formula book. The 1st-level formulae in Maraerys' formula book are: crafter's fortune, enlarge person, heightened awareness, long arm and shield.
Remember that you absolutely can purchase scrolls with your starting gold, in order to add spells to a spell or formula book before preparing.
Enjoy!
Abandoned Arts RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 |
IMPORTANT NOTE:
As of today, I am officially a certified LMT (licensed massage therapist). To celebrate, I'm taking the girlfriend (who is also very recently-licensed) to Universal and Islands of Adventure for a few days, so I will likely not be posting (or will be posting very little) until Friday evening or Saturday morning!
Fortunately, spending 600+ starting gold and preparing a dozen spells or so may give the thread a little fuel to burn on.
See you guys very soon! Keep the thread alive for me.
UnArcaneElection |
I don't have time to research what gear to get for all characters, but for a starting point here is what I was going to get for my Wizard that ours is derived from (Warning: Due to reduced strength and cat putting on a few pounds, we are now into Heavy Load territory, so some adjustments are going to be needed; also, he has 50 more gold and 2 less Strength than I was assuming) -- have to split message into 2 parts so that messageboard doesn't choke on it:
Part 1 of 2
(Initial Combat and Non-Combat Gear and remaining Currency calculated assuming Average Starting Wealth for a Level 1 Wizard = 120 gp, plus 1 outfit worth up to 10 gp, 1 Spellbook, and 1 Spell Component Pouch.)
Carrying Capacity (Str 8)
Light: Up to 26 pounds
Medium: 27 to 53 pounds
Heavy: 54 pounds to 80 pounds (Combat Gear + all Non-Combat Gear = 67.4 pounds)
Combat Gear
Quarterstaff: 0 gp, 4 pounds
UnArcaneElection |
Part 2 of 2
Non-Combat Gear, Non-Slotted
Explorer's Outfit (includes boots): 10 gp, 8 pounds
Traveler's Outfit (includes boots): 1 gp, 5 pounds
Wool coat (treat as Furs): 12 gp, 5 pounds
Poncho: 5 sp, 2 pounds
Backpack (common): 2 gp, 2 pounds
Bedroll: 1 sp, 5 pounds
Blanket: 5 sp, 3 pounds
Canteen: 2 gp, 5 pounds (when full; only 1 pound when empty)
Traveling Spellbook #1: 10 gp, 1 pound, capacity 50 pages (23 used), contains all of Zend's spells (currently)
Spell Component Pouch: 5 gp, 2 pounds (when full; 1/4 pound when empty)
Journal Book #1: 10 gp, 1 pound, capacity 50 pages (20 used), in which Zend has been writing various thoughts about his schooling, his life more generally, his philosophy, and his journey to Sandpoint
Ink (common): 8 gp, 0.1 pound (includes 1 ounce of ink)
Inkpen: 1 sp, negligible weight
Chalk (pack of 10): 1 cp each (1 sp), negligible weight
Charcoal (2 sticks): 5 sp each (1 gp), negligible weight
Parchment (5 in pack of paper): 2 sp each (1 gp), negligible weight
Rice paper (20 in pack of paper): 5 cp each (1 gp), negligible weight
Stationery (1 in pack of paper): 1 gp each (1 gp), negligible weight
Scroll Box (2 of these, 1 used for blank pack of paper and 1 used for written papers): 5 gp each (10 gp), 1 pound each (2 pounds)
Sealing Wax (1 stick): 1 gp, 1 pound
Currency: 0 pp, 58 gp, 7 sp, 0 cp; total weight 1.30 pounds
Familiar: That's a 20 pound cat that insists on riding on him -- although this isn't gear, this most Gluttonous and Slothful cat acts like gear -- that is, especially needy gear.
niconorsk |
I am happy with just getting the class kits for them all as a starting point, plus armor and a weapon.
So that means:
Swashbuckler: swashbuckler kit( 9gp, 29lb), rapier( 20gp, 2lb), chain shirt(100gp, 25lb), 171gp left to spend. Our poor swashbuckler is already at medium load. :/
Druid: druid's kit(14gp, 44lb), hide(15gp, 25lb), shortbow+arrows(31gp, 4lb), 60 gp left to spend
Investigator: investigator's kit(40gp, 24lb), chain shirt(100gp, 25lb), longspear(5gp, 9lb), 35gp left to spend
Wizard: wizard's kit(21gp, 21lb), flask of acid(10gp, 1lb), 89gp left to spend
I would suggest that given our party of relative weaklings, a pack animal for our travels may not be a bad idea. A donkey would only cost 8gp
I would suggest getting some cure light wounds potions at least until we can get a wand as a team
As for spells:
Druid:
0: Light, Guidance, Stabilize 1: Cure Light wounds, Magic Fang
Wizard:
0: Acid splash, Detect Magic, Mage hand 1: Mage armor, Greasex2, leave one slot open
Investigator:
Enlarge person and leave second slot open as it only takes 1 minute to prepare
UnArcaneElection |
Actually, niconorsk's plan for gear using the kits sounds good (haven't checked the numbers myself, but looks good to me)(*). Except the way the Wizard's spells are written, its REAL EASY to read one of them wrong . . . .
(*)I did check Armor Check Penalty (-2) and maximum Dexterity Bonus (+4) on Chain Shirts, since it looks like we're getting 2 of them. ACP -2 hurts, but should still be okay.
Total leftover gold (before counting any pooled purchases) is 355 gp, or realistically slightly less to deduct for food (and feed, if using donkeys/etc.). Of course, keep in mind that probably the party is not going to be together initially -- that's what the very first part of the first chapter is for.
Cure Light Wounds potions: 50 gp each -- ouch for first level, but anybody can use them reliably as long as nothing is trying to beat you up at the moment.
Cure Light Wounds scrolls: 25 gp each -- problem is that only the Druid can use these reliably; characters with UMD ranks can use these somewhat unreliably.
Infernal Healing potion: Like Cure Light Wounds scroll (50 gp each), but heals more in the long run, although reports of possible bondage to Hell or takeover by Infernal cells merit further study. With our Investigator (Maraerys) being Lawful Neutral, she would probably consider the risks to be more a matter of being sure you really got what you paid for than a serious risk of damnation; after all, it doesn't have the [Evil] descriptor on it for nothing . . . .
Infernal Healing scroll: Like Cure Light Wounds scroll (25 gp each), but is on the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, and adds the [Evil] descriptor like the potion does. Our Wizard (Zend, True Neutral) could use one and could even copy it into his Spellbook and prepare it as a normal 1st level spell, but I would see him being being more uneasy about this than our Investigator (2 steps away from being aligned with Hell instead of just 1 step), and by education he would probably have more insight into the risks of using such a thing.
Of course, before anyone gets too excited, keep in mind that Sandpoint is a really small outpost, so it might be hard to find even good mundane adventuring items, let alone potions and scrolls; it is also not in the optimal part of Varisia to find something exotic like Infernal Healing (I would think such things would pop up much more often in Korvosa, but that's a LONG way off). Of course, our party could have always picked these things up from some shady traveling merchant who sold some of our party members Infernal Healing scrolls and/or potions claiming to be out of Cure Light Wounds scrolls and/or potions (note: possible plot hook).
Non-magical items to consider: Alchemist's Fire (20 gp each -- good against at least the weaker Swarms, especially if you have no Evocation -- more expensive but more powerful than Acid), Antitoxin (50 gp each), probably others.
niconorsk |
Regarding availability:
While it is the GM's call, I would be surprised for Sandpoint to not have both potions and scrolls of Cure Light Wounds available. But then I come from a bit of a PFS mindset where these kinds of things are always available.
Infernal Healing, yeah, that's certainly more uncommon, so I can see not being able to buy it.
Regarding alchemist's fire being more powerful than acid, that is very true, but my intention was to use the acid as an alchemical power component to acid splash for +1 damage. Gives our wizard something useful to do every round of combat without blowing through all his spells.
I do love alchemist's fire though.
UnArcaneElection |
More on magic item availability: Sandpoint Cathedral is just coming online (not a spoiler, because the Player's Guide tells you in -- among other things -- the Campaign Traits), so they wouldn't have had time to stock up on divine scrolls and potions unless they had some left over from the First Aid supply for the construction workers. Actually not sure who around there would have arcane scrolls and potions -- in the PbPs I have followed (not just this one), the buying of such things often seems to get hand-waved, like Lord Wal-de-Mart's has outlets everywhere.
Abandoned Arts RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 |
Abandoned Arts RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32 |
Alrighty. Spells are done. Putting together kits and gear still, and...
One major-ish hiccup: I see you've opted for a shortbow for Anneka. As a druid, Anneka Oranti is (as far as I can tell) in no way proficient with the shortbow given her current build. Any thoughts on alternate weaponry for Anneka? Or are we intending to settle for the non-proficiency penalty?
Other issues: A lot of our party members are in light armor (and even Zend, with no armor) but at Medium encumbrance. How serious were we about the donkey, and whose is it? On that note, anyone looking at mounts?
With regards to scrolls and potions, how many of each are we purchasing pre-campaign, and who will be purchasing each? After all non-potion-or-scroll related expenses, budgets look like this:
Anneka Oranti: 86 gp
Teberus von Goodbrandy: 171 gp
Maraerys Starlight: 35 gp
Zend Haraku: 89 gp
ALSO, and this is important, we evidently have not selected a feat or skill point for Anneka Oranti's wolf companion. Or a name. So let's do that.
UnArcaneElection |
Alrighty. Spells are done. Putting together kits and gear still, and...
One major-ish hiccup: I see you've opted for a shortbow for Anneka. As a druid, Anneka Oranti is (as far as I can tell) in no way proficient with the shortbow given her current build. Any thoughts on alternate weaponry for Anneka? Or are we intending to settle for the non-proficiency penalty?
D'OH! Also just checked to make sure it wasn't a racial weapon proficiency -- nope. Could substitute a Sling, which is probably the least bad ranged weapon that isn't thrown, and is thematically appropriate, and it is of negligible cost (as opposed to the Shortbow, which is of significant cost). Non-proficiency penalty would really hurt. Running out of arrows also hurts a lot, but running out of Sling Bullets and having to use stones often only hurts slightly (although it could still be bad if it happens when you are stuck in a swamp).
Another thought for her (for a melee weapon) is a scythe or sickle (both are Trip weapons; of these, a Scythe is the better weapon overall, but a Sickle can be used with Weapon Finesse, and she has high Dex but only average Str).
Other issues: A lot of our party members are in light armor (and even Zend, with no armor) but at Medium encumbrance. How serious were we about the donkey, and whose is it? On that note, anyone looking at mounts?
I was wondering about getting mounts for all, but I just have this dread that any mounts are going to be short-lived in the Sandpoint suburbs . . . That said, Teberus von Goodbrandy has enough gold left over that he could actually afford a Riding Dog (150 gp), which is Medium (and thus can go indoors relatively easily) but can still fight decently (including Trip), although when possible he would need to dismount before fighting until he puts some skill points in Ride; fortunately, Handle Animal can be used untrained with domestic animals, and he has +3 on this from raw Charisma. See below about other expenditures for him.
With regards to scrolls and potions, how many of each are we purchasing pre-campaign, and who will be purchasing each? After all non-potion-or-scroll related expenses, budgets look like this:
Anneka Oranti: 86 gp
Teberus von Goodbrandy: 171 gp
Maraerys Starlight: 35 gp
Zend Haraku: 89 gp
Anneka Oranti will have 30 more gold left over if getting a Sling instead of a Shortbow.
Everybody except Maraerys Starlight could afford at least one 1st level Potion or Scroll as noted above. Preferably Scrolls for Anneka Oranti and Zend Haraku and Potions for the others. See above for Teberus von Goodbrandy possibly going deluxe mounted, although this wouldn't leave enough left over for a Potion or even a Scroll (not that he could use one) -- might be better for him to get multiple Potions instead (and with a name like his, this even seems thematically appropriate). If spending most gold on Potions or Scrolls and minimal gold on other stuff:
Anneka Oranti: 86 gp -- could get up to 3 1st level Scrolls (likely Cure Light Wounds)
Teberus von Goodbrandy: 171 gp -- could get up to 6 1st level Potions (likely Cure Light Wounds and/or Infernal Healing(*), depending upon availability and whether he knows the latter is [Evil], and if so if he manages to be convinced into thinking it isn't)
Maraerys Starlight: 35 gp -- can't get any
Zend Haraku: 89 gp -- could get up to 3 1st level Scrolls -- likely including Infernal Healing(*), but could (and probably should) also get other Sorcerer/Wizard spells to increase his spell repertoire
(*)As noted before, Infernal Healing has the [Evil] descriptor and is strongly associated with Hell (as the name implies) and Asmodeus, and is a suitable plot hook for a shady Potion/Scroll merchant.
ALSO, and this is important, we evidently have not selected a feat or skill point for Anneka Oranti's wolf companion. Or a name. So let's do that.
Should probably get a Kitsune name. For Skill Points (2 of them at 1st level), you probably want Perception and Survival. For Feats, you probably want Toughness (front-loaded), then Combat Reflexes and Iron Will (in either order, but get both soon -- later, get Bodyguard if Ability Score Increase(Int) permits -- for instance put 1st point into Intelligence and 2nd point into Dexterity, the former to enable feats beyond just Animal Companion feats, the latter to keep Combat Reflexes usable after size advances; eventually get Combat Patrol, Improved Natural Attack, and Narrow Frame, the latter to alleviate penalties for going indoors after becoming Large).
EDIT: For later feats (potentially for more than just Anneka Oranti and her Wolf), also consider Teamwork Feats. For the Wolf, the early Ability Score Increase (Intelligence) is also important for this, as well as for increasing number of Tricks.